Here's the thing. There's all these headers that don't do JACK cause they need to hook up with the stock exhaust. You make a very nice header back system. A few of us guys got together on scionlife chat and decided that you should make a TUNED header long enough to make some real gains and mate that to a system that ends up being head back. No more axle back, no more header back.. We (ok, just I) want a Stylis exhaust. We (I) know it’s hard.. but come-on, it’ll be fun! I might even buy one even. Even.

That would be great. Make it cheap though. Unless its like $50 more then a DC but puts out at least 2 more hp then the DC I would be down for that. Be nice if a header that was tuned right could give us a nice 5-8whp :twisted: is this a dream or could it happen? :roll:

I'd buy one. Mainly cause I love my axle back soo much.

Yeah Gabe!

With the extra money, you can get your own navi system... j/k hahaha :D
BTW, my wife likes the springs. Mucho thanks on that man. I should be getting the intake soon and I'll let you know 'bout installing a header.

The header would not be hard to design and fab but I would bet it would cost WAY more than the DC header but it would WAY more gain.... if a complete matching high flow cat and exhaust was included.

Parts alone would cost WAY more than the DC header:

4-2-1 header:
1 ea. Lazer cut flange $35 ea.
2 ea. 1.5" to 1 5/8" merged collectors $50 ea. ($100)
1ea. 1 5/8" to 1 3/4" merged collector $50 ea.
1ea. 1 3/4 to 2.5" transition (venturi) $25
6ea. 1.5" mandrel bends $10 ea. ($60)
3ea. 1 5/8" mandrel bends $11 ea ($33)
Misc. supplies like welding gas/wire/tabs/bolts/collector flanges/O2 bungs etc. $35


So that's $576 for just parts, throw in at least 10 hours labor at shop rate....

4-1 header, not quite as much gain and harder to fab and install but considerably less $$:
1ea. lazer cut flange $35
1ea. 1.5"-1 3/4" merged collector $100
1ea. 1 3/4"- 2.5" transition (venturi) $25
9ea. 1.5" mandrel bends $10 ($90)
Misc. supplies as listed above $35

Total: $285 for just parts
labor 10 -12 hours.... depending on the Karma that day!

With labor included the cost is HUGE..... and that's without ceramic coating. With a large production run from a supplier in China it would be brought down some but nowhere near the price of a DC header.

Any takers now??? Not trying to discourage anyone, just laying out the costs, most people don't realize why truely good headers cost a small fortune but they make the best power... Truely good headers are the BEST bang for your performance dollar!!

ken

I am sorry to say that I am not in the header market guys. :D I leave that type of designing to the header guru's!! :shock: I can't reinvent the wheel, but I can add to it. :lol: Since there are already binding contracts, I will take them and sell you guys axle backs instead. Possibly a set of springs? 8)



www.precisionmuffler.com <<<----Scion Central !!!

I call buzz kill!

but, with 10 people and a jig..

So then the 84,000Yen TRD header is a great buy?
http://www.scionlife.com/parts/images/parts/10088_p_exmani-1nz.jpg
Cost is not always a good sign of power gains. For the most part a 4-2-1 header would be better for every day driving while the 4-1 would be good for drage racers. Now $500 or so for a header is up there in cost. I would have to see the numbers compared to a DC. If it only gave 100% more power then the DC for more then 100% the cost then it aint with it IMO. Need to keep the cost per HP at a good rate or it just becomes to costly for little horsepower. Yes I do understand this is a little engine & we aint going to get 1 hp for every $30, it would be nice to get 1hp for $50-$80 each. A s/c gives you about 1 hp for $90 or so.

the "buzz kill" post was for Ken, but you posted as I typo'd. I guess that's a bubble buster though. FINE. I'll get the megan. But I 'm NOT happy about it.

damnit I can't even keep up with the posters!! That TRD looks semi tuned, but not long enough.. easy enough to rip it off though.. RIP IT OFF.. Oh,

Stylis.. I get your meaning.. you have a no competition clause cause you sell headers?

the "buzz kill" post was for Ken, but you posted as I typo'd. I guess that's a bubble buster though. FINE. I'll get the megan. But I 'm NOT happy about it.

I remember that show,"Buzz Kill" :lol:

damnit I can't even keep up with the posters!! That TRD looks semi tuned, but not long enough.. easy enough to rip it off though.. RIP IT OFF.. Oh,

Stylis.. I get your meaning.. you have a no competition clause cause you sell headers?

I really don't have any clauses, just that I don't try to upstage companies. Unless I know that I can take the market.

damnit I can't even keep up with the posters!! That TRD looks semi tuned, but not long enough.. easy enough to rip it off though.. RIP IT OFF.. Oh,

Stylis.. I get your meaning.. you have a no competition clause cause you sell headers?

I really don't have any clauses, just that I don't try to upstage companies. Unless I know that I can take the market.

um HELLOOO!!! you have the scion market in your hands....<singing> gabe's got the whooole world in his hands gabe's got the whoooolle world in his hands </singing> okay slightly disturbing but still

i think you could easily pull it off and people would worship you for it.....think complete exhaust system for $$$ and your name on every performance tuned sky-on there is.....food for thought

Jeff

OK, I don't have the exhaust market cornered yet. Just have a small portion, but hey I wish I had the technology to make a header, but sad to say I am not in that market so I can't make one. :( If it was up to me, the stylis header would have been made months ago! :D

do it, do it........ill buy :D

Stylis!! Make a HEADER for the TC, I'd Def. buy from U again!!! Comon man..Were dyin out here

Stylis!! Make a HEADER for the TC, I'd Def. buy from U again!!! Comon man..Were dyin out here

Dude your nutz!! :lol: For the tC is WAY out of the question!! Sorry to say that I am not equiped for headers, although I do have A great special going on! Visit www.precisionmuffler.com to check it out! :D

does anyone here honestly know what a tuned header is???

First off you want the tubes to be of equal length, and to have the same number of bends or similiar pressure loss (ie the difference in pressure from one end of the header to the other is the same across the cylinder). The equal length ensures that when one puff of exhuast is leaving its individual tube it doesnt encounter another puff at the tube junction(s) as this cuases back pressure.

the second issue is how it is tuned. A tuned header will only provide a small gain, and even then only at the rpm it is tuned for. The idea here is that when cylinder one fires, the puff of exhuast is almost at the end of its tube, ideally creating a small vacuum behind it (engine side). This cuases the next puff to get pulled from the engine, so in theory the header would have negative back pressure, or no back pressure, which inhibits performance.

third you want it ceramic. Keep the heat where it is supposed to be and you get better performance.

The problem is, with an engine that is so small, percentage gains equal only menial hp increases, the small engine is the weakness.

lol...

Each time Gabe replies, is a Shamless plug...lol

"No, sorry yo u guys...blah, blah.........BUT HEY, we have a special right now!"

LOL, that is funny ____ Gabe!

More power to ya!

Hell, I wish I had my own business...lol

Maybe in GA, I might open up a shop of my own as the years pass!
lol

-Tylor

btw, I'll miss ya Gabe.. But don't think I won't come by and stalk you when I come to visit CA every now and then...lol :lol:

and another thing Gabe, I won't be able to buy the springs and get them installed before I leave for GA... What I'll end up doing is when I get all settled in GA like Nov. 15th-ish, I'll cut u a Money Order and you can just ground ship them to me.. And I can put them in I guess..

Thanks again man! and don't forget, u can call my cell too!

depends on price

^^huh? :?:

lol...

-Tylor

does anyone here honestly know what a tuned header is???

Thanks for hot rod 101. I read the whole post, but all I heard you say is that You're going to make us headers. Let us know when you're done.

does anyone here honestly know what a tuned header is???

Thanks for hot rod 101. I read the whole post, but all I heard you say is that You're going to make us headers. Let us know when you're done.


I thought tunable headers had a stereo in it! :shock: :lol: Stylis<<not in the header making biz or the tunable header mking biz :lol:

right, they plug into the back of your radio to enable longer distance reception of most AM stations.

AM ROCKS :twisted:

you know what I think I heard XM was gonna dominate the tunable header market too. :lol:

ahurdl01,
Ok, little grasshopper, go to www.e21motorsports.com/kendanielson and down to the header info link, read it all.... You have much to learn. Anyone that want's to understand headers better should also read it.

Great headers and complete exhaust are your BIGGEST HP maker on any engine regardless of displacement other than forced induction. A well developed N/A 1.5L engine should easily reach 150hp.... happens all the time.

The number of bends in the primary pipes is vitually irrelevent until you get into VERY high operating rpm (over 8,000 rpm). There is no scientific evedence to support the "vacume" or "negitive pressure" caused by the gasses from other cylinders "sucking" on another cylinder. Scientist have tested this theory and found it's not true. There is a negitive pressure at the port caused by pressure wave reflection, the timing of that wave is dependant on the length of the primary tubes.

The difference between 4-1 and 4-2-1 headers is explained also.

As people that have been on this forum for the past year have seen, headers are my "hot button" especially when misinformation is posted as fact.

BTW, I looked at the post on installing the ELprototype headers... That's a truely ugly collector, especially that X plug in the center, the tubes SHOULD be pinched together before welding....

ken

So you see I can't be held liable for making headers when all of you can bug kdanie. Every call out kdanie for being on the boards this long and not buiding them already!!! :lol:

J/K Man , no one bug him.

I wish my wife would let me get my hands on the xA for a week.... but no dice. Hell, I only get to drive it once a week or so anyway! Anyone want to loan me an xA for a week??? It won't be cheap or pass a visual smog check but it will make great power....

Ken

I wish my wife would let me get my hands on the xA for a week.... but no dice. Hell, I only get to drive it once a week or so anyway! Anyone want to loan me an xA for a week??? It won't be cheap or pass a visual smog check but it will make great power....

Ken

You could of had my xB for two+ weeks had I gone to SC.

Strup will have a header and header back system in the next month or 2. I'm waiting for the final word.

Not sure why this is in the tC section... from so long ago.

Moved to xB PH.

When the forums were redesigned sometime ago, old topics were moved around and were in different areas.

PrecisionMuffler.com also made a header back system but had to discountinue the product. Header back systems are very nice when done correctly, but you have to make sure that it is California smog legal. :(

MMW offers two 4-2-1 style headers, one "street" model, and a "race" model. The difference between the two is the diameter of the primaries. The "race" model puts out 10.8ft/lbs and 11.1whp over the stock exhaust manifold. Please note that this was dynoed on a xB with intake and magnaflow exhaust. The dyno can be found elsewhere in the xB PH forum.

Well since you won't make one for the xB, will you make one for the tC?

Strup will have a header and header back system in the next month or 2. I'm waiting for the final word.

Holy year too late batman.

its just one of those things. we've been selling so many 350z/g35 Strup header sets and xB header exhaust systems demand was high. TC stuff is coming and its going to be front to back system.

Jeff

While a small engine means small performance gains, a small car means you don't need huge gains to feel it.

Look at the people who claim they feel a meaningfull differance by just adding an intake. Many cars see bigger gains from an intake but you wouldnt know it by the seat of your pants.

geez holy old threads....

Since, I have been called out. I have been working with Monstermotorworks for a Header. Like I said before I wanted to leave it to the Guru's and I did. PrecisionMuffler.com, a stylis company is working with MonsterMotorworks for a header and its going to be a nice one. :D Keep you eyes open folks. heehee

MMW offers two 4-2-1 style headers, one "street" model, and a "race" model. The difference between the two is the diameter of the primaries. The "race" model puts out 10.8ft/lbs and 11.1whp over the stock exhaust manifold. Please note that this was dynoed on a xB with intake and magnaflow exhaust. The dyno can be found elsewhere in the xB PH forum.

The header that will soon be available from Weapon*R/Monster Motor works is going to be awesome. I saw pics of the prototypes a few months back, and can't wait to stock them.

Dyno testing has been done on the header. :D

hmm time frames?

give me about another two weeks and I should have something together and listed here on Scionlife. Sciond, you can PM me to remind me if I forget, :D

:rofl:
I will...I need a header to match my intake and your axleback

When is the MMW header going to be offically released? Stylis??? :tap:

the header is not in stock for another two weeks and thats when I will put together a power package for everyone. :D And discounts to precisionmuffler.com customers with our axle backs too.

the header is not in stock for another two weeks and thats when I will put together a power package for everyone. :D And discounts to precisionmuffler.com customers with our axle backs too.

Can you post pics of the header back exhaust you made in 2003? I found the post but now the link is forbidden. Its sorta related to the topic. :lalala:

its just one of those things. we've been selling so many 350z/g35 Strup header sets and xB header exhaust systems demand was high. TC stuff is coming and its going to be front to back system.

Jeff

don't skimp out on the xA crowd now :tap: :tap: :tap:

its just one of those things. we've been selling so many 350z/g35 Strup header sets and xB header exhaust systems demand was high. TC stuff is coming and its going to be front to back system.

Jeff

don't skimp out on the xA crowd now :tap: :tap: :tap:

xB headers are the same for the xA, echo, vitz...yada yada.

the header is not in stock for another two weeks and thats when I will put together a power package for everyone. :D And discounts to precisionmuffler.com customers with our axle backs too.

Can you post pics of the header back exhaust you made in 2003? I found the post but now the link is forbidden. Its sorta related to the topic. :lalala:

Let me see if I can find it on our site. Its been so long since I posted up that pic. :D
(Searches through stock xB muffler pics)

Here it is:
http://www.precisionmuffler.com/0e13aac0.jpg

This was the only complete replacement system on the market last year, but because no wanted a complete replacement system after the first 8months we dropped the line. It was at a good price too. :D And of course we had them for the auto scions and the manual. Reasearch and Devolpment was hard core on that system.

I would've bought it with a header :( ..ok Stylis...........one more week :tap: :lalala:

:D Power package coming soon.

So my ___ drives out with a DC header nad you didn't say you were making one! What the monkey Fart meng! :eyebrow: Where's the love Gabe Where is it!? You even met Brittney!LOL

So my butt drives out with a DC header nad you didn't say you were making one! What the monkey Fart meng! :eyebrow: Where's the love Gabe Where is it!? You even met Brittney!LOL

I met Brittney from Socal!!! :P I was so excited! The header isn't actually mine, its from MMW, and we didn't have the details completely ironed out still, when you came by.
:D

it's cool. I know I still can't believe I'm going out with THE Brittany from Socal!

:shock:

its just one of those things. we've been selling so many 350z/g35 Strup header sets and xB header exhaust systems demand was high. TC stuff is coming and its going to be front to back system.

Jeff

don't skimp out on the xA crowd now :tap: :tap: :tap:

xB headers are the same for the xA, echo, vitz...yada yada.

not what i meant

i meant the whole system, i already have the header