LOTS of interesting numbers here folks :)

We tested my box:

Stock
W/ questionable SPFR intake from the shootout
W/ SPFR intake from Jon's inventory
W/ SPFR intake that's been installed on my car for the last 2 months.

3 baseline pulls (1 in 4th gear for fun)
2 or 3 pulls with each of the intakes (and 1 in 4th for fun)

Some of the intake runs done back to back, no cooldown, jut to see what would happen to the numbers.

Tempature was a steady 65 degrees in the dyno room all morning.

Here's the results:

Stock: HP: 98.6 Torque: 103.4
Shootout Intake: HP: 103.2 Torque: 105.5
Inventory Intake: HP: 103.1 Torque: 103.7
Besk one's Intake: HP: 103.6 Torque: 105.0

Gains:
Shootout Intake: HP: 4.6 Torque: 2.1
Inventory Intake: HP: 4.5 Torque: 0.3
Besk one's Intake: HP: 5.0 Torque: 1.6

All the dyno Sheets are here: http://spfr.com/spfr_dyno_results.html

Pictures here: http://homepage.mac.com/besk_one/PhotoAlbum16.html

Vide here:

http://spfr.com/video/spfr_dynoday1.avi
http://spfr.com/video/spfr_dynoday2.avi
http://spfr.com/video/spfr_dynoday3.avi

Odd how the shootout intake pumped out a 4.6hp gain and an extra 2.1 foot-Pounds of Torque isn't it?

But it's in line with the other intakes, and check out my 5hp gain with my intake!

both me and Jon couldn't belive my car dyno'ed over 98hp stock!! looks like i got lucky and got one with a really strong motor - but the 3 basline pulls in 3rd were 98, 98.5, 98.6 so there's not much to argue there.

I have pictures of the intakes installed on the dyno, as well as some video - if anyone wants i can put those up to, but i'm tired (been up ince 5:30 to drive out to the Magnaflow dyno center) and don't feel like doing it if no one cares.

I can't wait to see this :) .

Thanks a bunch to you guys who woke up early and got this done. Jon told me the results this morning before he posted them! I had a hunch my box was pulling more than 1 HP extra w/ Jon's intake, and his results pretty much confirm it!
Way to back it up too with some solid dynos! I stand by my previous statements as a satisfied SPFR customer!

IN FACT THERE WAS FOUR BASELINE RUNS, THREE 3RD GEAR RUNS AND ONE 4TH GEAR...I SAY THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE. LIKE I CLAIMED BEFORE AND STILL CLAIM THE INTAKE MAKES POWER....

These various dyno tests have me confused... If Scion advertises that stock motors have 108 HP, why do none of the motors with aftermarket intakes even reach that high of hP?

Hey Christy...
someone help me if I'm wrong, but I'm going to stab away at this!
The 108hp is measured at the flywheel...it always is higher than the actual amount of HP which is given to the wheels...I think it's a 12% difference. A dyno actually shows the real hp that the car is putting to the group...or WHP

WELL SAID DREW....

So it is true of all cars, and also varies if the transmission is manual versus automatic?

auto robs more hoserpower than the manual

Ok you had to make a stand for the intake. I like that. We are still talking less than 1hp which is within an acceptable margin of error from dyno days to runs to different dyno's. Same goes with the torque.

Lesson is you can't please everyone. It doesn't matter if you test it, I test it, a panel of engineers, magazines or whoever tests. People are gonna buy what they want based on what they feel.

As far as the intake quality goes, I'm assuming the intake is a rotomolded part? There are errors in manufacturing that take place. Nothing you can do about that, but try and catch them before we do.

WELL SAID, WE ARE WORKING ON THE PROGRAM FOR THE MACHINE TO GET THE PART CORRECT EVERY TIME.

yeah advertised is 108hp, but that is at the flywheel. You do lose horsepower when measured at the wheels due to drivetrain loss. There is no specific percentage though that you can use to determine what percent of hp you will lose. Only way to figure it out would be to engine dyno the car then run it on the chassis dyno to figure out your specific car's drivetrain loss.

thats good that u got your own dyno done!
now we all know what the SPFR intakes do..
depending on which one i get(good mold, bad mold)
i SHOULD put out 5 hp.. but it'll vary with each car..
im curious to how ALL the dyno shootout intakes
put out like 3-4 tq.. but the spfr only does 2 tq..
i think the TQ on such a small engine/car does a big
difference.. but ur intake "seems" to put out 5hp..
versus the injen's like 4.07@4.77tq..
do u think the SPFR intake will do better with 1 hp more but about 2.5
less TQ?

i know light motors reflect A LOT with a lil tq.. tq is everything!
hp is just where it peaks.. i really wanna know which is a better buy
now that we know the real numbers.. and has quality control been better now?

OH YEA.. i forgot to metion that the defective intake(scionic mark used) put out 3 lbs of tq! crazy! hahah why would a defective one give more pull like that?

nice numbers on the SPFR intake!

it looks like someone took the time to break their engine in properly to get 98 whp in stock form.

so what's the deal? why did the SPFR intake only gain 1hp when mark dyno'd it?

something doesn't seem right here. all the SPFR intakes look really consistent (within .5hp). it would have been great if you had tried an injen intake to see what results you got. i don't like this inconsistency between "shootouts".

i think we need an unbiased party to dyno the intakes. but is that possible? probably not.

so what's the deal? why did the SPFR intake only gain 1hp when mark dyno'd it?

something doesn't seem right here. all the SPFR intakes look really consistent (within .5hp). it would have been great if you had tried an injen intake to see what results you got. i don't like this inconsistency between "shootouts".

i think we need an unbiased party to dyno the intakes. but is that possible? probably not.

What would of been nice is to see them dyno a injen or aem, etc., etc. along with the re-dyno on the spfr.

well, you can't have everything i suppose, jon tried to get an injen, but nobody he asked wanted to take their intake off their car for a day to let us borrow!

i'm sure jon can schedule another dyno session, anyone willing to wake up at 5am and drive out with us, and let us use their intake is more than welcome, we can document the whole thing, just like we did with my car - i know the spfr will post the same numbers after seeing what happened with my car.

anyone is invited, just so that we have some unbiased people there to observe the entire process.

so, the question is, who wants to donate their time and their intake?

Stock: HP: 98.6 Torque: 103.4


are you running on stock wheels???
some of the norcal guys dyno'd their stock xb, only have 92.x hp...

so whats the deal?? :?: :!: :shock:

BESK ONE CAR HAD STOCK WHEELS ON... MY CAR HAS 18'S.

:shock: Wow amazing that the intake made almost no torque. Torque is what gets you off the line. I know where my money is not going for my intake :P. Looks like the Injen is the best bang for the buck. I found it for $125+ shipping, hell of a deal.

well, you can't have everything i suppose, jon tried to get an injen, but nobody he asked wanted to take their intake off their car for a day to let us borrow!
...so, the question is, who wants to donate their time and their intake?

i wasn't complaining, i just don't think you can compare dyno numbers taken on different machines. like the guy who posted above me. he is going to buy an injen intake even though from my experience it doesn't make sense how an intake can improve torque by 5ft lbs on such a small engine. all i can say is, don't rely on one test for info.

i think the SPFR shootout was very nicely done. great documentation, videos and pictures. it would be interesting to see which intake made more power after driving the car hard in the heat for an hour. or maybe it doesn't matter. i don't know. i just know that my car feels so much faster than stock, and the only mod i have on my car right now is an SPFR intake. i love it, and i wouldn't get any other intake. and no one told me to say that. that's my own opinion. :)

i know, i feel the same way about my spfr intake eric, one of the reasons i donated my time & car to go and get this done, i knew what my ___ dyno felt!

hopefully we can get an injen/aem etc before the next dyno session, i really want to have some head to head numbers too.

my car made [edit] MORE torque stock than the shootout car with any of the intakes installed, maybe that also had something to do with the low torque number, who knows? i sure don't, but i'm glad we could get some numbers out and hopefully we can get another test going and get some head to head results :)

I WILL POST THE DYNO SHEET ON MY CAR TONIGHT. IT MAKES 5HP AND 3.5. BUT MY CAR IS ON 18'S AS WELL WITH THE CAT BACK SYSTEM. I STARTED WITH 90HP TO THE GROUND FROM THE START AND NOW I AM AT 104.6 AND 106.7.

ok, now I'm confused. First you started with Stock: HP: 98.6 Torque: 103.4
and now you are saying it was 90HP to the ground. I need a specific answer. I don't understand how there is a big difference in numbers. The xa stock hit 94HP at the dyno, toufic's car. Please clarify and why is the dyno machine off?? :?


What is going on down south? :?

Stylis, Jon's personal car dyno'd at 90hp, while Besk One dyno'd at the 98.

Besk's car is the one that they used for the dyno session while Jon's is quoting his prior numbers.

Hope that clears it up.

As for what's going on down here. I asked myself that very same question ever since I moved here from NorCal but hey I love this madness even though I miss the Bay too.

ya jon dyno'ed his car months ago with his exhaust and his prototype intake

then he dyno'ed on saturday with the production intake, just to make sure the numbers were as good or better than before. and he gained about 1hp from the production intake over the prototype.

my car was 98hp stock vs 103.6hp w 105 torque after the intake

kinda confusing in this thred, as soon as i get jon's dyno sheets i'll get them all up online and it'll make more sense ;)

were any corrections/repairs made to the now infamous SPFR intake from the previous dyno prior to this round of dynos?

were any corrections/repairs made to the now infamous SPFR intake from the previous dyno prior to this round of dynos?

The infamous intake! LOL! I like that...it's like the OJ glove!

NO THERE WAS N0 REPAIR, INFACT WE USED THE INTAKE THAT WAS USED IN THE SHOOTOUT AND THAT ONE MADE 4.5HP TO THE GROUND.... WHAT I MEANT ABOUT THE 90HP WAS MY CAR FROM THE FIRST DYNO.. SORRY FOR THE MIX UP...

i think we are going to need another intake shootout.

ok the 90HP stock I understand. Now I am confused about the dyno that was done. The original intake that only added 1 HP now offers 4 HP. What was done different? Why is there a big difference???? Is the dyno used messed with??? Why is there a discrepency?????? :?

LIKE I SAID BEFORE THE PROBLEM WAS WITH THE INSTALL OF THE MAF SENSOR, IT WAS OVER TORQUE AND IT CAUSED THE MAF TO READ INCORRECT...THAT IS WHY THE INTAKE DID NOT PERFORME THE WAY IT SHOULD HAVE .. I YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST DYNO SHEETS YOU WILL SEE THAT FROM THE START THAT THE FIRST INTAKE MADE 4HP AND NOW IT IS 5HP...

gotcha, so the maf sensor was the villian this whole time. :x Talk about installs going bad, I am glad everything turned out OK SPFR. :D

LIKE I SAID BEFORE THE PROBLEM WAS WITH THE INSTALL OF THE MAF SENSOR, IT WAS OVER TORQUE AND IT CAUSED THE MAF TO READ INCORRECT...THAT IS WHY THE INTAKE DID NOT PERFORME THE WAY IT SHOULD HAVE .. I YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST DYNO SHEETS YOU WILL SEE THAT FROM THE START THAT THE FIRST INTAKE MADE 4HP AND NOW IT IS 5HP...

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/38482/capslock.gif

LOL...if you knew jon...THATS THE WAY HE TALKS!>>>ALWAYS LOUD! :wink:

I think I touched on that topic a while ago. Apparently SPFR is a human loud speaker, so I have no idea when he is mad or not :lol: Now that the intake shootout is done I am going to stop talking about this topic now. I'm tired, gonna relax now, anyone want to join.
http://www.corona.com/images/postcard_vistas/vista2.jpg

http://www.corona.com/images/postcard_vistas/vista2.jpg

Sounds good to me.

Sure thing, we'll just hop on the next flight out...only 45min

Here's the long awaited stock/SPFR intake dyno sheet, sorry it took so long to post up - you can totally see the solid gains in hp and torque between stock and with then with the intake!

http://spfr.com/images/dyno/stock_intake_compare.jpg

Notice from the dyno sheet that the sweet spot for max hp and tq is from 3500-6000 RPMs. For all you standards out there it should be easy to hit the sweet spot in every gear. However, for us pokey automatics it gives us more incentive to lay down the pedal if we want to really get the most out of our Intakes. So if you have an auto and an intake, don't be shy and you'll be very pleased. I am. :lol:

P.S. I drove my xB through some heavy rains over Christmas and I my Intake was completely dry when I crawled underneath to check it. I still avoided the really large water puddles cuz I'm not that crazy yet.

i hate to say anything, especially since i like SPFR and jon is a friend, but that dyno chart doesn't make sense to me. HP and torque should ALWAYS cross at 5252rpm, yet this is not the case on that chart. what this shows me is that the dyno was not properly calibrated for the car that was used. another strange thing is that the stock and the aftermarket intake run each cross at different places, but seeing as the constant is always 5252 (it's part of the formula), these are just lines that have no reference point.

i'm sorry to point this out, but just wanted to do it for educational purposes. i still highly recommend the SPFR intake. it works great.

here is a site with some info: http://www.revsearch.com/dynamometer/torque_vs_horsepower.html

Here's an interesting bit of trivia; below 5252 rpm any engine's torque number will always be higher than its horsepower number, and above 5252 rpm any engine's horsepower number will always be higher than its torque number. At 5252 rpm the horsepower and torque numbers will be exactly the same.

the formulastates that HP = Torque X RPM devided by 5252

but it does not say what gearing to use to get the numbers to cross at 5252

i'm going to assume snce it's a pyhsics formula that it uses a strict 1 to 1 gear ratio - which you can't have in any car on a dyno, i think our scions are more llie 5.3 to 1 or something like that which would throw the formula all off.

i know magnaflow keeps thier dyno calibrated very tightly, in fact they have 2 dynos from different manufacturers at their location, and use them to calibrate each other, to be sure of the reading they get!

It still seems like if you want to play it safe and safe money while you're at it....Get the injen. :idea:

Injen=less power, if your gunna spend money on an intake, do it right with SPFR

and who said the spfr was more $$$

jon just got a big break on his manufacturing costs - peep the new intake price in a week or so - gonna be REALLY competitive!

But it just seems like things with SPFR aren't "Just right." At least for us that don't know Jon and aren't his buddies. This isn't personal at all but injen is a real company that has a real staff including an engineering and QA dept. I know it's hard for a one man band to compete against that but hey...You can say SPFR works but don't say that it's better. Trust me... I've tried both.
Price Break? Better be good.Think about it; LESS for an intake from a company(Team) that has grown thanks to it's good reputation and products that work or MORE for an intake that isn't even made by the GUY(that's what SPFR is) that resells them and has a few guys say they "Feel the Power." :roll: Should the prices even be close?I know this is gonna get a few of you upset but that's what "the truth" is known to do from time to time.

****SIGH****

god people just love to talk smack...

Hey Besk one.... Just because I don't spend as much of my life on this forum as you do doesn't mean I couldn't have tried both intakes. :shock:
Really... That was stupid. You're not helping SPFR :?

****SIGH****

god people just love to talk smack...

If voicing opinions is talking smack then we are all guilty of it. Urban did just that and you cut him down for it....that is just weak.

As for the number of posts he has.....why should that matter??? So does that mean whatever Eric (sorry to use you as an example E) says is the word of God? Guess that means your dyno charts are wacked then.

It's cool and I give you props for standing up and standing by SPFR but now you are going way beyond that making yourself look like a jerk by cutting other people down.

You've stepped on a few peoples' feet by posting some of your stuff here lately and most likely will try to apologize like you've done before but I suggest you just kick back and let the product speak for itself now that problems have been solved so you don't make yourself seem like such a meanie!!!! :evil:

there's a difference in "talking smack" and voicing an "opinion"

one is constructive and helpful, even if the opinion is a negitive one!

and one is just ____ talking :evil:

it's all about the tone - and his was "weak" as you say...

C'mon besk...people have OPINIONS...just because they aren't tied to a certain brand or person allegiance doesn't mean they can't speak the truth.

How the hell was he talking smack--what part doesn't make sense to you dude?

One man show intake vs. big company intake...of course the indy guy has to have the lower price to compete with just the name of the big boys...that's how corporate america works these days...

So for starters 250 for indy and 160 for big boys...it doesn't add up.

Sorry to break some peoples hearts--but I just speak the COLD HARD TRUTH.

Thanks for pointing that out Eric...that is VERY interesting indeed.

Those Crayolas are darn hard to get set up right when trying to come up with dyno sheets sometimes I see.

Anyway--all this has already been spoken upon, and people have already seen it time after time. People will buy what products they RESPECT...simple as that.

like i said, pricing is gonna change, you get better performance (proven with dyno results) than the injen right now and soon for a better price.

believe what you want, spfr.com is updated weekly, with new items, new dyno results and new information - more than i can say for ANY other aftermarket site (except for the scionlife store, who updated their products weekly)

i'll let the numbers stand, and ignore the BS TSW politics

SPFR = better performance than injen ,and soon for less $$$ too :)

and anyways you're all just jellous that i'm running 103.6hp to the ground ;)

hahaha!

....BURN!

(sorry for the bite shopajoe!)

I noticed you edited your message before mine. Why? Let people see who's really talking smack. As for the PM you sent me:ya you've bought an spfr intake and run it on your box???

i'm sure jon would remember you since he's personally installed EVERY intake he's sold in LA, what's your name bro?.

if you really have, then that's my bad -

but if you had i'd imagine you're posts would have been more constructive - like:

"the spfr was ok, but in my opinion the injen pulled harder"

instead you just posted some ____ talking bull____

thanks for playing, but here's an offer that still stands, come to an spfr dyno day for yourself, and if the spfr performs well or outperforms the other intakes, you can shut up and admit it like a man right out on the forum.

there's way too much ____ talking on this forum and in TSW especially, the board needs constructive stuff, not just baseless trash talking..

"the SPFR team"



I'm interested in a public forum that helps people by allowing them to ask questions and express their "opinions".I'm not interested in having you as my penpal...So don't send me PM's. I've got nothing to hide and I'm not in TSW so don't try to make it something against them now.

I never bought it for my box. It's on JT's(HB Al & Ed's) xb, and I test drove his. Did I mention he sells them and it doesn't include Jon's install. So Jon has done every SPFR install in L.A.? :roll: Scionic put it in the best words..." Let the product speak for itself." Or has it?

Jealous of your dyno(that we all really think is accurate :lol: )? Here you go again... Jon, I hear you're a nice guy so here goes some advice. Fire this guy as your "Internet marketing Rep". He's making SPFR look bad. He might help you out a bit more if you dress him up as a giant SPFR Intake and have him wave at cars on a busy street. :idea:

whatever - you win

buy inferior products because team politics tell you too

no skin off my back.

the numbers tell the truth :)

Urban--don't mind besk...

Besk--I realize jon signs your checks--but you have to be human somewhere deep deep down inside of that body. But, with the type of defensive stance you seem to always put up when evidence arises of situations where the SPFR intake doesn't make 5+ hp, it makes everyone question whether you "stand behind your product", or are just kissing some major ___.

Yea bro, your car makes a gazillion horsepower ok?

And everyone and their mothers backed the SPFR intake--even the people from TSW--so I don't understand why you are making this a TSW vs. you situation. It's only until the famed intake that is SPFR made 1hp on Marks shootout when people started talking trash--can you blame them?

Whatever bro--people out there can read, let them decide who's being a dick towards everyone else as a whole. Have fun with your 103hp.

buy inferior products because team politics tell you too
Again, Im not in TSW... I don't know what gave you that idea. Why do you keep trying to mix them into this. I really want to know... Did they not let you join? Did they laugh at you for being "The SPFR Cheerleader"?
the numbers tell the truth
Who's numbers though? :roll:
whatever - you winI'm glad to see you raised the white flag. Better late than never.

Urban--don't mind besk... Yeah JDM but....he's trying too hard. On a level that's starting to really bug. I'ld say we no longer know if he's standing behind his product or if Jon's standing behind him...If you know what I mean. :shock:

I hear you man...and we all know that's how it works with "certain" people.

Besk--you keep running your mouth about "politics"--but you are the one being the big hypocrit by running politics with Jon and the intake.

Seems like he can't get off the fact that he should let the intake stand for itself--just like all the other intake companies have done so far--and not hire a internet jockey just to try to boost sales.

Why all the hatred towards TSW...?

I have no idea, maybe because he's making so much more power than all the other scions out there.

internet jockey to try to boost sales.
:lol: Internet donkey :lol: nah...Poor donkeys; Internet junkie :lol:

come on guys..
why do u have to be so hard on besk/jon..
u know preschool is hard for some people.
http://www.ettexautosports.com/temp/joey/spfr.jpg

:shock: .... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

since im not TSW, nor do i own an injen, or a spfr intake.. or wahtever.
i figure hey.. im tired of all this crap and what not and it's time to bring
the war on...


*and let the games begin*

http://www.ettexautosports.com/temp/joey/spfr2.jpg

on a constructive note...
u figure a name brand muffler is like 200~300 for just the muffler.
whereas a generic fake one is like 50-75 bucks. thats like 1/3 the price or so.
so since big brands like aem, injen, k&n, and whatever sells their intakes for
3 bills.. should the SPFR(generic one) be about 100 bucks..
and since its defective all the time.. maybe less..

but hey watch out for those falling prices.. I'D DROPPED PRICES TO IF
MY INTAKES WERE ____ED UP 36 OUT OF 50 TIMES!
OH YEA IM TYPING LIKE JON TO GET MY POINT ACCROSSS....

Dyno numbers from different days, at different times, with different cars should not really be used to compare against one another. Then again, with adequate usage of correction factors, the figures taken from different Dynojet dynos can be compared with a decent degree of accuracy. Of course, this also means that a little "correction" can be made to tweak numbers...

Hmmm... so did this particular xB dyno extraordinarily well??
http://sr20.hybrids.jp/van/scion/xb_on_dyno/pages/07.htm
That was a 100% stock xB we dynoed back in July promptly after proper engine break-in, and at one of norcal's premiere dyno facilities, so there is no doubt as to its accuracy.

Different cars are different; the dyno is only best used as a tool to measure relative differences... as long as nothing is tweaked.

:o Jon, see what besk created for you? I know he's not responsable for making faulty intakes but now he stirred up some "politics" :lol:

This thread is awesome....all the talk about team politics, this and that....Its hilarious! Not to mention the 2 main people in this debate arent even from TSW. :D

Anyways thanks for the read, it was great. Time to hit the sack..

Oh BTW, a couple of HP's to the wheel could just mean a fat chick in the passenger seat or not. Also it's not like any one intake is gaining 25 WHP's over the other.

come on guys..
why do u have to be so hard on besk/jon..
u know preschool is hard for some people.
http://www.ettexautosports.com/temp/joey/spfr.jpg

speechless :shock:

Ok Joey that ain't right bro. Let's not this get out of hand for everyone's sake ok?

Though I do have to give it up to you for your photochopping skills but please take this seriously....if not then I'm going to ask this thread be locked.

As for the 36 out of 50 defective.....that is completely wrong. You must have heard that wrong or someting because it was way less.

this thread is getting out of hand. injen is a respectable company that has been making intakes for a while. does that mean they are the best? no. does that mean they suck? of course not. but we do know they have excellent marketing. so does AEM. why do you think they include an INJEN license plate frame with each intake? so you will put it on your car to show everyone that you have their product. in other words, free advertising. AEM does the same thing.

it's the grassroots companies like SPFR, iceman, and others that have developed new ways of doing things. the production costs are MUCH higher, but in the end sometimes a superior product can be developed. honestly you guys, how much do you think it costs injen to take a piece of metal and mandrel bend it and throw on a breather pipe, MAF bung and filter? it's super cheap for them. so why would they pay the outrageous cost of creating a plastic mold when they can just make one bend?

there are a few of you guys out there that don't like jon for one reason or another. and i can understand that there are always going to be personality conflicts and differences of opinion. but so far everything jon has told me about or promised me, he has followed through with. he has spent a lot of his own money designing these products, and he wants nothing more than to help out the scion owners. he's not making crazy profits on the stuff he sells like injen does. i'm sure he wants to make money in the long run, but right now he's a guy with a bunch of ideas and a lot of experience in the aftermarket industry that has a lot of competition to deal with.

and the worst part is that everyone actually believes all the marketing hype and is supporting the big companies when they honestly don't care at all about you or your car. they just want your money.

one of the reasons that i'm not a giant fan of injen is that they have made false claims in the past. they have produced dyno sheets that show how much power they create on the subaru wrx, when in reality, it does nothing. in fact, once the filter gets dirty, it has been shown by independant testing to reduce horsepower and increase turbo lag. these independent tests have been done over and over again. pretty weak for a $300 cold air intake. yet people are still buying that intake, and still seeing zero performance gains.

yet there are small companies in australia and the US making cold air intake for the wrx and they are making power. so what's the deal? also, note that injen was one of the first companies to offer a cold air intake when the wrx was first released in spring 2001. sounds like the just slapped something together to make some money, huh? just an observation.

anyway, i just want to say that we don't need to get childish about who is better and what to buy. just buy what you want and hopefully you will be happy with it. everyone is entitled to their opinions, but there is no need to be libelous (look it up: http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/libelous) against another company because you don't like their product.

the formulastates that HP = Torque X RPM devided by 5252
but it does not say what gearing to use to get the numbers to cross at 5252
i'm going to assume snce it's a pyhsics formula that it uses a strict 1 to 1 gear ratio - which you can't have in any car on a dyno, i think our scions are more llie 5.3 to 1 or something like that which would throw the formula all off.

i know magnaflow keeps thier dyno calibrated very tightly, in fact they have 2 dynos from different manufacturers at their location, and use them to calibrate each other, to be sure of the reading they get!

it's math. trust me, i'm the last person who wants to dispute the dyno results or anything like that, but 5252 is the constant in the equation. that means that the torque and HP lines MUST cross at those points, or they simply aren't following the equation which would mean the torque and HP numbers do not correlate to numbers we are familiar with. torque is directly related to horsepower, and you cannot have one without the other. the formula is basic: hp = torque * RPM / 5252. that's it.

where does 5252 come from? that is simple too. we are measure horsepower, right? and horsepower is defined as 150 pounds, 220 feet in one minute. you could also say 550 pounds one foot in one second or 33,000 pounds one foot in one minute. all the same thing.

ok, now the force of 150 pounds in the 1 foot radius circle is 6.283186 ft. (Pi x diameter 3.141593 * 2 feet)

the distance of 220 feet, divided by 6.283186 ft. gives us an RPM of 35.014.

so now we have 150ft. pounds of torque, 35 rpm, and 1 horsepower.

the constant is 150ft times 35.014 divided by 1hp, which equals... 5252.1

so then hp = torque times RPM divided by 5252.

gearing should not be not a factor to the reader of the chart. the only reason gearing would be considered is because they like to have as close to a 1:1 ratio when they dyno the car. if this is not possible with the car, then the dyno operator needs to make corrections to the software so that the results will be accurate. every competent dyno operator knows this, it's not complicated.

does this make sense? you can't accurately calculate horsepower if you don't have the proper torque reading. it is IMPOSSIBLE for the HP and torque to not be EXACTLY the same at 5252 rpm. i'm sorry if you disagree, but that is the fact.

now, i'm sure most of you skipped right over this post to see if joey has posted another one of his crazy photoshop pictures. oh well, i tried.