http://store1.vividracing.com/catalog/images/prnxbpulley.jpg

http://store1.vividracing.com/catalog/images/prnxbpulley2.jpg

http://store1.vividracing.com/catalog/images/prnxbpulley3.jpg

Those look like they could be a cool mod. What I like about them is that they are lighter then stock, but are the same size so no underdive which might affect power to the rest of the car or screw up cam timing.

I wonder how much faster the Rpm's will rise with this thing in. I doubt if you will free up more than 1 or 2 hp. But you should feel the difference with this piece 8)

uuuuhhh.......whats that? :roll:

uuuuhhh.......whats that? :roll:
Lightweight Crank Pulley.

whats the price on that bad boy

whats the price on that bad boy

$134.99. Here's the link: http://store1.vividracing.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1573_1844_675_2037

How the hell would a crank pully mess up cam timing? :shock: .Go back to school! It only drives the belts. :roll:

my question is will this be compatable with the echo as well ?

whats the price on that bad boy

$134.99. Here's the link: http://store1.vividracing.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1573_1844_675_2037

my question is will this be compatable with the echo as well ?
It should be, the cars share the same engine.

How the hell would a crank pully mess up cam timing? :shock: .Go back to school! It only drives the belts. :roll:
:lol: :lol: :lol: You're right about that :lol: :lol: :lol:

How the hell would a crank pully mess up cam timing? :shock: .Go back to school! It only drives the belts. :roll:
"Go back to school?" Well, never been there for auto mechanics, but I did spend a good deal of time with the XB service manual regarding the installation of this pulley. Check out a section called "ENGINE MECHANICAL- Chain Sub-Assembly". It's true the cam gears are on the chain and the cam pulley is on the belt. However, when doing any replacement/service to these components it seems essential that timing markers not just on the cam gears, but also on the crank pulley "damper" be all aligned at the same time. This would lead me to believe that there could possibly be timing issues if the pulley was reduced in size. Perhaps this is just part of the nature of our VVT-i engines or perhaps I'm wrong. Anyways, seems like a reasonable concern and since the Perrin pulley is the same size as stock we don't have anything to worry about.

How the hell would a crank pully mess up cam timing? :shock: .Go back to school! It only drives the belts. :roll:

Well just ask the people who crushed their valves improperly installing an underdrive crank pulley in Ford's new 2.3l Duratec/PZEV motor. Here is a portion of the installation for the 2.3l underdrive pulley:

There is a small threaded boss behind the stock damper. It can be found around the 6 o'clock position. The boss has a 6 mm fine thread hole in it. Before you try to loosen the crank bolt, there must be a bolt installed through the damper into the boss. Without the bolt to positively hold everything in position, the balancer or crankshaft will turn as the bolt loosens. If this happens, you lose valvetrain alignment as well as crank sensor synchronization on the crank trigger. Because the 2.3 Duratec/PZEV uses no crank key way, everything is held in place by the torque of the bolt, and can move out of position without it.


He was not incorrect in his concern over screwing up timing. Essentially if the crank is out of sync with the cams, your pistons will kiss the open valves and you'll have an expensive mess on your hands. ;)


I couldn't tell you if this would be the case with the Toyota motor. It is something important to look out for though.

That looks sweet. Now all you need is a light weight fly wheel & the engine should be real rev happy.

That looks sweet. Now all you need is a light weight fly wheel & the engine should be real rev happy.
And/or stall happy. :shock:

That looks sweet. Now all you need is a light weight fly wheel & the engine should be real rev happy.
And/or stall happy. :shock:


its not gonna stall your engine I have the lightened flywheel on my car and it does help you out with the revving :D

I guess being a BMW tech for years gives me little tollerance for people who speak mech tech,with out tech knowledge.Maybe that is a fault I should work on.But regaurding the timing marks on the underdrive pully,I feel that anyone who would go through the trouble to make/machine/mass produce,and then market such a pully would take the few extra steps to ensure correct timing mark placement.Assuming the liability in selling something that if not correct could damage someones engine,I would make sure,plus Im sure they did product testing,ALL OF THIS IS A ASSUMED!!!As for the people that messed up their little fords,they messed up when they bought it!!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: Now on to my next concern,realisticly,how much power do you expect to get out of the 1.5?are you gonna race,street race,blow the doors off an all motor civic wich is readilly availibe by any kid out there,NO,Face it,the only thing you will outrun maybe is other scions and maybe a school bus or two.......................... :lol: I think the focus needs to be future motor swap possibilities.I have comfirmed that the block in the scion is the same as the Celica gts,not that would be a nice way to channel money,into a swap,and custom mounts ect....not on some aluminum pully to replace your perfectly good stock one. :twisted: Ok im done,I could go on for hours! :twisted:

its not gonna stall your engine I have the lightened flywheel on my car and it does help you out with the revving :D
I was just thinking that with the lightened flywheel, it won't have as much rotational mass, so when you....oh never mind, I'm retarded. :?

It's really tough talking about actual motor tech as I'd say 90% of the people on this forum are the "bling bling" crowd and really have no practical knowledge of how engines and their accessories actually work.

I do apoligize has another view point was made to me on why this is good to be posted here and agree with those points.

Just a couple points about the crank pulley we produce for the Scion xA and xB.

The factory pulley does NOT include a dampner to prevent vibration. It is made from two pieces of cast steel then pressed together with a rubber band in between. This is done to make up for the inaccuracies of this factory part and keeps costs down. Ours is precision cut from virgin 6061 aluminum to higher standards. This eliminates the two piece necessity. Your belt life will actually be longer with our pulley than with the stock pulley. (Look under your hood at the belts on the crank with the engine running. You will see the belts moving from side to side. Ours doesn't!) There is no dampner on the factory pulley!

The timing alignment for the entire rotating assembly is not at all affected by the crank pulley. A gear is placed over the end of the crank (near the pulley) this is referenced to marks on the block etc. when looping the timing set to the cam set etc. Nothing about the actual pulley has any affect on this alignment. PERIOD. Also, the direct fire ignition found on the engine eliminates any need for timing marks ont he pulley for a timing light etc. All timing changes are done electronically and not adjustable externally from the ECU or engine.

The lightened pulley will allow faster acceleration of the rotating assembly, thereby netting additional horsepower and throttle response. HP gains will vary but expect 3-4 on most applications. Aftermarket forced induction engines will see higher gains. This is an excellent, economical alternative to flywheel removal and lightening. The "do-it-yourselfer" can do this at home with basis tools. Try that with the flywheel! (NOTE: can certainly be used with upgraded flywheels for maximum HP and TRQ gains.)

As always please let me know if I can help in any way further. To order simply call us or any other authorized PERRIN™ dealer. Thanks again!

Thank you for clearing everything up PERRIN ADAM. I decided to keep my XB till next year so I ordered one of your pulleys and the fuel rail. I'll let everyone know how the car feels when I get around to putting them on 8) .

Great! Glad we could help. Keep us posted and let me know if I can help further!

Thanks PERRIN ADAM. Very informative! Always nice when someone shares informations in a constructive way. I'll probably be ordering one of these real soon.

Great! Glad we could help. Keep us posted and let me know if I can help further!
No problem I'll do just that 8)

The timing alignment for the entire rotating assembly is not at all affected by the crank pulley. A gear is placed over the end of the crank (near the pulley) this is referenced to marks on the block etc. when looping the timing set to the cam set etc. Nothing about the actual pulley has any affect on this alignment. PERIOD. Also, the direct fire ignition found on the engine eliminates any need for timing marks ont he pulley for a timing light etc. All timing changes are done electronically and not adjustable externally from the ECU or engine.
Hey PERRIN ADAM. Another quick question for you regarding this pulley. This may have nothing to do with what you were referring to above, but wanted to make sure I know what's up before putting this in. I took a look at the stock pulley and it appears to have a white "timing" mark on it (see red arrow on the picture). The xB service manual says that this mark should be used to align the cam to TDC by aligning it with the "0" on the chain cover marker (see blue arrow on the picture). Anyways, I couldn't see from the picture of the Perrin pulley if it has a timing marker like the stock one. Is this different from the type of "timing alignment" that you were referring to above?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v303/avatar_99/crank1.jpg

There are several ways of orientating the cams to the crank. If you choose to use the crank pulley to help with this alignment you can mark the new one in the same location when installing the PERRIN one. A dial type indicator is a better way to measure and align cam to crank timing. In nearly all cases you will have the crank pulley, as well as lower cover off when doing a t-belt replacement. Most will align the lower gear to a point on the block or use the aforementioned dial indicator to find true TDC.

Thanks again! Let us know how we can help further!

You don't even need any kind of timing stuff to put a timing chain on a Toyota. A new chain has 3 yellow marks on it. Every gear on the engine has a dot on one tooth of it. All you do is line up the yellow marks on the chain with the dots on the gears and that is it. It's idiot proof.

As for this lightened pulley I don't understand how weight of a pulley makes any difference. The pulley is directly attached to the crankshaft. I would think the comparatively massive weight of the pistons/rods/crankshaft would greatly offset any reduction you could make in the pulley. I can understand how a different sized pulley would create power since that is like changing gear ratios in a transmission. But same sized and just lighter I really don't get, gains in power would be very minimal.

the reduction in weight on the rotating assembly. Just like any accessory on the engine the weight of the crank pulley is taxing the engine. As you reduce the weight of the crank pulley, piston, con rods, crank shaft, etc., HP and TRQ will be increased. Race engine builders take special care to remove as much weight from the rotating assembly without compromising the integrity. For the rest of the world an easy way to increase HP is to remove weight from the crank pulley and flywheel. You also get the additional benefit of improved throttle response.

If we can answer any other questions please just let us know!

If we can answer any other questions please just let us know!

Do you have the instruction of how to install it?

Thanks.

If we can answer any other questions please just let us know!

Do you have the instruction of how to install it?

Thanks.

ya im wondering this too. it seems easy but instructions are always good. i was thinking of just paying a shop to do it.

So from the sounds of it, the HP gain will not be at the engine/crank. The gain will be at the wheels. Not so much gaining engine horsepower, just letting the ponies run a little more, kind of like an exhaust doesn't increase engine/crank HP just lets the car breathe better for more wheel hp. Is that Right?

the reduction in weight on the rotating assembly. Just like any accessory on the engine the weight of the crank pulley is taxing the engine. As you reduce the weight of the crank pulley, piston, con rods, crank shaft, etc., HP and TRQ will be increased. Race engine builders take special care to remove as much weight from the rotating assembly without compromising the integrity. For the rest of the world an easy way to increase HP is to remove weight from the crank pulley and flywheel. You also get the additional benefit of improved throttle response.

If we can answer any other questions please just let us know!

Now I'm confused... I thought that installing lighter parts of the same size was just for the purpose of reducing weight... isn't that what this pulley will do? It reduces the weight which means the power-weight ratio is higher, as there is less weight for the same amount of power to move.... When I installed the carbon fiber fenders on my '68 Bug, yet retained the 1600cc stock engine it certainly scooted a lot faster, but not because lightening it added power, there was just less weight to move. Wouldn't the principle be the same behind a lightened, yet same-sized pulley?

So from the sounds of it, the HP gain will not be at the engine/crank. The gain will be at the wheels. Not so much gaining engine horsepower, just letting the ponies run a little more, kind of like an exhaust doesn't increase engine/crank HP just lets the car breathe better for more wheel hp. Is that Right?
In order for there to be a gain at the wheels, there has to be an even greater gain at the crank. HP is lost through the drivetrain since it uses HP to move those parts too. Now by lightening the pulley, the engine uses a little bit less HP to spin the engine, so the HP freed by the lighter crank can be moved on down the line to the ground. But ultimately, the pulley does not "generate" horsepower, it merely "frees" some up (if that makes any sense :? ).

As for personal experience, my buddy put an Unorthodox racing pulley on his impulse and it made the car "feel" quicker. We were (are) po' boys so we never had it officially dyno'd, but the un-official "butt dyno" noted an improvement. :lol:

*I can't remember if the unorthodox pulley was underdrive or not, but I do remember it being lighter than stock

In the coarse of doing some research on crank pulleys / dampers I came across an interesting article on the oVerboost website. They bring up the question of harmonic dampening and its importance in maintaining engine performance. In fact, if you check out the xB service manual they refer to this part as the Crank Damper (rather then a pulley). It seems like one of the reasons that OEM crank pulleys are typically heavy and have rubber either behind or between the parts is to reduce or dampen the harmonic vibrations that radiate from the crank. Perhaps this is the reason that the OEM pulley on the xB/xA has the rubber piece pressed between the two metal ones? Anyways, below is a link to the article I was referring to. Interested in what others think on this.
http://www.overboost.com/story.asp?id=1283

the perrin pulley does not dampen harmonic vibration...dont run it....

Well the reason you have a damper on the pulley is because unless vibrations are eliminated you are shaking the hell out of your bearings which will cause them to wear faster. However a lot of the engines today are internally balanced and don't require that much from the pulley.

It sort of makes sense on the theory of unsprung weight, as in lighter weight wheels will be easier to turn so the car will be "faster." However why wouldn't it be like a flywheel and when you lighten the flywheel you get more responce and more HP but you lose torque. I wouldn't do anything that would make an engine lose any torque on a little 1.5.

Well the reason you have a damper on the pulley is because unless vibrations are eliminated you are shaking the hell out of your bearings which will cause them to wear faster. However a lot of the engines today are internally balanced and don't require that much from the pulley.

It sort of makes sense on the theory of unsprung weight, as in lighter weight wheels will be easier to turn so the car will be "faster." However why wouldn't it be like a flywheel and when you lighten the flywheel you get more responce and more HP but you lose torque. I wouldn't do anything that would make an engine lose any torque on a little 1.5.

You dont lose torque, you lose momentum.

Guys the pulley does not give you horse power, it free up horse power the the engine naturally had, just was being consumed by the pulley since it is heavier it takes more energy to spin it, with the lighter pulley, the engine uses less energy thus power send to the tranny, and then to the wheels.

Guys the pulley does not give you horse power, it free up horse power the the engine naturally had, just was being consumed by the pulley since it is heavier it takes more energy to spin it, with the lighter pulley, the engine uses less energy thus power send to the tranny, and then to the wheels.
That is correct. The same priciple goes for the lightweight flywheel 8)

right ^^^^^

how'd this end up in the tC section? wasn't this a xB/xA power hungry post.

And I read somewhere the engines in the xB's are internally balanced, right?

Munch, when you get that other sub box and don't like it.. if you get an extra pully for your trouble we'll work out something.. ;-)

Man, I was hoping Munch had this installed and was giving us an update.

And I read somewhere the engines in the xB's are internally balanced, right?

Would this mean that the crank pulley is not needed as a damper?

all engines are internally balanced , basically lightened flywheels and crank pulleys do kill a lil bit of bearing life but no where near dramatic as say removing balancing shafts like nissan peeps like to do .

Oops did I read that wrong. I thought it read "lighted crank pulley" I thought Wow now that would be cool a crank pully that has LED's. lol time to get the eyes checked

the pulley sounds good to me . now all i need is the doe. :D

since this is in the tc forum, is there one made for a tc made?

since this is in the tc forum, is there one made for a tc made?
This isn't the TC forum :lalala: :lalala:

so who has this installed already??

so who has this installed already??
look above you.... :lalala:
look in power hungry....
or try a search...(there are two or three threads about this, both with lots of posts of who has it...)

so who has this installed already??
I did a few weeks back there is a post about it.