http://forums.clubrsx.com/archive/in.../t-172409.html

somebody wrote supercharged tc will have 206 ft. torque in the above forums link. But, i couldn't find any post at scionlife mentioning this( everybody just say 200hp and thats it. )

206ft. torque figure is it true :?:

 

I'm sure its possible to hit 206 lbs tq.

 

Its would be common to assume that. If the s/c take you up to 200hp would be a 25% in hp. So a 25% in tq would make it 203.75. Now the thing to recall, most S/C seems to add a bigger % to HP over your TQ. So a more real world number would be 25%HP & about 22%TQ. Now my numbers are just based on getting up to 200 hp. Its a example, so I am not saying that these numbers I have posted will be any where near the real ones. Also there is no real # yet if the estimated 200HP will be at the wheels or not. So again this is just a example.

 

i dont know about 206 ft-lbs of torque to the wheels, becuase superchargers increase power in proportion to engine speed. They tend to increase top-end power substantially, and not as much to low-end power. 206 tq to the engine at say 4000rpm is quite possible though.

In the november issue of sport compact car they install a supercharger on their project 350Z. Now before i get into this I know that different engines, different superchargers, different base hp and tq, etc but this is hypothetical here. They gained 86hp and 54 tq from their base 250hp and 241tq, which equates to about 34% and 22% horsepower and torque increase, respectively.

If you use the same percentage gains, this puts the tC at approximately 214.4hp and 198.8tq measured at the flywheel, a gain of about 54.4hp and 35.8tq. Since the 350Z is RWD, it naturally looses more hp and tq than a FWD because of everything that they have to travel through to get to the drive wheels. Assuming say a 10-15% loss due to the transmission and such in the tC it puts it at approx. 182-193hp and 168-179tq at the wheels.

Obviously this is an estimate since I don't know the specs of the supercharger or anything, but I would say that if the supercharger gives the tC 193 hp and 179 tq at the wheels, I would be rather satisfied.

Besides, throw on some different sized pulleys and you could easily get alot more than that out of it, but you'd probably have to upgrade some of the internals to handle it.

 

That is good info. If I recall, some one posted a dyno run that got almost stock #s to the ground on a stock car. So the engine is a little under rated it seems. Also the S/C for the 350z I think is a roots style right? I cant recall the name of the one for the tC, but its like a turbo charger that is belt driven. I recall some ppl saying that this style out performs the roots style a little.

 

SCC(also the nov. issue) tested a tC with the AEM intake and TRD axle-back exhaust and got 141hp and 152lb-ft of torque, and guesses that it adds about 10 to each over bone stock, so that puts it at around 131hp and 142lb-ft at the wheels, though I doubt that those add that much. It still however is about right, being an 18% hp loss and a 12% torque loss. Then again, every dyno is different so who knows what a different dyno will show?

The supercharger from SCC's 350Z is a Vortech centerfugial blower, the same that TRD is going to have(the TRD blower is actually just a rebadged Vortech blower anyways), which is why I felt the comparison to be relatively decent. A centrifugal blower is very similar to a turbo. All blowers are belt driven. A belt connects the driveshaft to a pulley on the supercharger's turbine, which rotates a shaft that connects to the compressor that forces air into the intake manifold. Turbo's work in the same principle but are driven by exhaust gas instead of the engine itself. A centrifugal blower most definitely outperforms a roots blower.

A roots blower is the simplest of all types of blowers. It is essentially just an air pump. Not many parts and simplicity=cheaper price of the three main types.

The screw type blower looks similar to a roots blower from the outside, but the internal rotors are different. In a screw type blower, the rotors interleave one another and progressively compress the air inside the blower as it moves along the rotors. These rotors require a high degree of tolerance and causes the screw type blower to be more expensive than a roots blower.

 

I see. Yeah each dyno is different. I was going by these ones:


These are the cold runs.
With the 19" wheels peak HP checked in at 145.12 and peak Torque was 152.77.
With the 17" wheels peak HP checked in at 143.08 and peak Torque was 151.30.


These are the hot runs.
With the 19" wheels peak HP checked in at 142.42 and peak Torque was 150.57.
With the 17" wheels peak HP checked in at 141.25 and peak Torque was 149.34.

 

ignore those rsx people. their pretty much a stuck up bunch. i know MANY MANY owners and they all think their car is the greatest. Honestly, one guy was like my rsx is so much better than the porsche cus of then i tuned out shoook my head and left.

Reason why S/C Tc > rsx type S.
200hp are equal.
tc ALREADY has more torque than the type s and a super will just give it more. YOu will eat them off the line and they will never catch up in the 1320.

Price w/ s/c of tc should be around 19 - 20.
price of type s = 22 +
price of full eibach springs, dampers + sways = 750.
price tc to lets just say 20.5

so now you have a car that looks damn good. has a full suspension setup. w equal power but a ton more torque.

equal driver skills in that setup the tc should take the rsx in every possible way. except weight. but the ton of extra torque will make up the diff.

oh well.

 

and? many tc owners think their car is the ____ and can take anything out there. what's your point? are you supposed to put down the car you own or something? "yeah, my car is a piece of ____, it sucks."

 

Well said, there will always be a bunch of people who think their car is the best out there. Especially on car forums

 

Actually, I think I have seen plenty people here who are smart enough to admit that their tC isn't going to smoke a Porsche. That's just stupid. If someone told me that their RSX was going to smoke a Porsche, I'd slap them.

Just because your car isn't smoking everything on wheels doesn't mean it's a ____ty car. You have to consider that not everyone can buy a 911. I don't think it's a ____ty car. It's a great car. It's not going to stomp on a true sports car though.

 

Yeah. I think a RSX & tC could waste a stock Porsche 914 though

 

it is all very relative you know. tC with decent turbo system & proper IC should be good for smoking a lot of things that drive around the streets these days, and still be very cheap car.

I suspect that within next year, you will have an option of buying turbo kit with IC for less than 4k and have "very safe" >250whp... If people can push more than 380whp on 1.8 1zz, then you should be able to do much more on tC's 2.4l

 

Not necessarily.. Part of how Toyota made it a 2.4L is not by increasing the size of the motor, but by increasing the stroke.. Which decreases the top end (Redline) and (imo) it's overall power potential. I think redline is like 6,000 RPM? A 6.0L Corvette matches and a Z06 beats that by 500rpm.

I think the days of Toyota overbuilding cars is over, this car was built to make the HP it makes.

-dp

 

its not over. wait till 2006 supra is released. and well the new lexus conv rebuild should share the same engine. unles they totally *** it up and build a ____ty engine which they SHOULDN'T do due to the heritage of the supra.

 

No Replacement for Displacement is how the saying goes. Drop in some light weight parts into that bad boy & you could get your red lines your looking for. Its not like a street driven cavi has a 9,000 or so red line but the drag race version does. What is that. Has any one taken off the head & seen if you could bore the engine out some? If not, so what? With a turbo you will still get more hp & it will be in real world rpm ranges. If you had a car that had a 9,000rpm redline would you hit that rpm every time??? I know I would not, I want the engine to last.

 

your thinking is kind of wrong in some ways. making an engine hold 9,000 rpms can be done and may not be safe to do it all the time. depends on how well its done. but a engine made to hold 9,000 rpms can hold it all the time. lets take the rx-8 for example isnt its redline like 8,000 or something? does that mean taking it to 8k is bad? no it means 8k is safe! it could go up higher. in the tib they thought 6750 was safe. but REAL's Tib has a ecu upgrade and his rev limiter is set to 8,000 and hes never had a problem with it in over 14 months.

Forcing a car to go above the revs its made to run at isn't a good idea normally unless you rebuild/reconfigure a few parts for it.

If my car came with a 9,000rpm redline i would hit the red line everytime i race or just got on it for fun. Cus if they set 9k as the limit its supposed to be safe to go there. But if your car is made for 7k, and u chipped it to 9k, i wouldn't hit 9k unless im really into the race.

P.S some of you will say it so i'll add it. your rev limits are also based on the power band of the car. a stock tib drops power beyond 6400rpm's. so we dont need a higher redline. but supertib with cams + ecu upgrade has his redline at 7500 and his car due to the cam's, has a increasing power curve all the way to 7500.

 

I see your points. I was just trying to get to the point, yes you have a rev limiter. You can still damage the engine if you bounce off of it every gear every time you drive. Some engines are built better, so it might not make a dif to those. Also at those rpms, unless you are at free way speeds, I think you would over heat the car. :? I think the RX-8 is 9,000 red line, the 6spd makes peak HP at 8,500rpm, but thats also not a piston engine, so its more rev happy. In this case you would need to look at Honda B series engines & things.

 

yeah i was just giving examples tho.

like in my car i have bounced of the redline too many times to possibly count. when i rev i just hold the gas in and let it bounce repeatedly. makes a sound i like.

of course when i race i dont let it bounce cus thats bad, but i shift 1st - 2nd at around 6500.

but even if your engine isn't made to go lets say 6500 safely, then your rev limit will be set to lets say 5500. cus if they set it to 6500 and everyone in the car messes up their ____, then they got a huge recall problem on their hands + lost money. So really, your rev limit is well within safe margins.

 

My friends RSX will smoke many porsches... it is not stock however... and it runs low 13's high 12's... i do agree with most rsx owners being cocky though... you get that with everygroup of car owners though... live with it

My old civics used to rev to 8k on a daily basis (3 times a day and often drove at 4 - 5500 rpm freeway..) they were designed to rev to 8k, i would never take it past 8200 in certain gears only at the track... no need to on the street

one lasted 61k with the last 10k on a 50 shot until it got stolen, and the other lasted till 80k (i added 55k) last 5k on a 50 shot, when i forgot to retard the timing on cold night...

most motors are designed different, and you drive those cars accordingly...
smaller motors are easier to make rev... which can ultimately lead to more power per liter... where v8 v 10's and v12's rely more on stroke for their torque and power...

the limiters are there for a reason... keep them there until you know what you are getting into...