Dear Scion: PLEASE fix the PAINT on these cars [Archive]

smash

11-24-2004, 02:26 PM

Well, glad you asked. The manager was a rude elderly gentleman who obviously didn't want to hear anything a young female had to say. I had three minutes of his time before he walked away from me. And this was after I'd waited nearly 2 months to see him. Needless to say I've filed 3 complaints: one with the Better Business Bureau, one with VA Consumer Affairs and one with the National Highway Safety Administration to bring this problem (of the messed up paint, and this dealership) to their attention. I'd highly advise anyone to do the same if they feel this strongly that there is something wrong with their paint.

I am going into arbitration with Scion in a couple weeks, and I hope to be well prepared to present my case to them. If any of you could post pictures of the front hood and/or bumper of your car it would really help me out a lot. I was at Target the other day and a flint mica tC parked right across from me, and my jaw nearly dropped when I saw that there was not a scratch/chip/dent in the front of the thing. And I looked hard too. And the car was bought the same month as mine, and obviously from the same area so it was driven on the same roads. Now you tell me that isn't just downright wrong. I am also going to a couple bodyshops to get something in writing along the lines of them saying this is not normal wear and tear on a 3 and a half month old car. The other part I will be presenting is of past recalls by Mazda, Ford and other companies on cars whose paint was faulty and prone to chipping, cracking or bubbling.

Anyway, I will be posting pictures of my hood and bumper chips on here this weekend, and I would greatly appreciate it if you or anyone you know could do the same- chips or no chips! I'd like to see both. I will be using these as part of my case.

Thanks guys.

OKIHost

11-25-2004, 04:22 AM

Ok people well we have someone here who is willing to take the legal step to get all of us justice so lets get those pictures coming.

I will also add a link to this thread in my sig and would suggest everyone else does too so as many people can get in on this as possible, I know all of you must be a ____ed as I am about your brand new car chipping away and looking like crap already so lets do our part and post some pictures, it can only help and it is not right that we got such a halfass paintjob economy car or not.

I am trading in my 04 BOP saturday but I will get pics of all my chips before I do and I am just my 05 TCM will be the same way not too long down the road.

Just so you people realize that if this case wins chances are they could possibly do a major recall and we all get new paintjobs!!

smash

11-26-2004, 04:59 PM

Thank you so much for your support in this matter, OKIHost. I can only hope people will step up and help us with this battle. Oh and thanks for the great idea of putting this in the sig line!!

Oh and I forgot to mention before.. if you have trouble posting pics to the forum or simply don't want to-- please feel free to e-mail them to me at veedubgirl@aol.com

zinczipper

11-28-2004, 07:55 PM

i just saw a Black Sand xB at a dealer , the hood looked like the green giant's thumbprint under the clearcoat..spots on roof too .
dealer thought it might have something to do with the plastic shipping film .
zinc

OKIHost

11-29-2004, 09:26 AM

They put off me picking up my new xb till Tuesday so I will take some pictures of my BOP tomorrow if the rain stops, I am really suprised that more people are now contributing to this by now, if you are sick of the ____ty paint on your xB, xA or tC PLEASE post pictures here it MAY help and it may not but you have nothing to loose and it will hopefully help others in the future from having to deal with this problem also.

smash

11-29-2004, 06:18 PM

I have filed a complaint with the BBB and the NHTSA. I highly recommend that if your paint is prematurely chipping/cracking/bubbling/peeling, etc. that you take 5 minutes to file a complaint with the NHTSA; the complaints are important and taken into account very seriously. I will be posting pictures of the chips on my hood/bumper in the next 2 days or so and I'd appreciate it a lot if any of you could do the same.

Click below to file a complaint with the NHTSA:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm

basilisk4

11-29-2004, 07:01 PM

I won't say that your paint isn't chipping, cracking, or peeling abnormally, because I have no idea what your paint looks like, but I will say that my 4-month-old flint mica tC's paint is still in showroom condition.

smash

11-30-2004, 05:54 PM

Yes. I've gathered that the Flint Mica and selective other tc colors are not having the same issues. This is WHAT I'M TRYING TO PROVE TO SCION. Therefore it would be very very very helpful for those of you whose cars still look great to post those pictures too!

basilisk4

12-01-2004, 03:30 PM

Well, I have a chip as of this morning. Guess I should've kept my big mouth shut. Just road debris, though, I'm sure.

magpie13

12-01-2004, 03:32 PM

I have swirls and blemishes all over my Xa.

It's too bad because I thought the paint job looked so spiffy.

I take it paint issues are not covered by the warranty?

Hopefully arbitration will lead to a replacement paint job.

:cry:

KingofScion

12-01-2004, 05:56 PM

my Wife's tC has NO paint issues at all

Setarcos4131

12-02-2004, 08:50 PM

people get ur pics up about ur chips, crack, and/or bubbling...I pray that nothing happens to my tC when it comes in...I don't understand why they would sell the car with this problem just to have people complain about it...Toyota needs to step it up and give u guys new paintjobs.

smash

12-03-2004, 07:11 PM

Yea but it's not gonna help at all if no one posts any pics :oops:

DelayedTurbo

12-04-2004, 10:53 PM

I'll get some pics as soon as possible, I have chips and scratches all over my car and its barely 3 months old.

smash

12-05-2004, 02:22 AM

Here you go people- pictures of some of the chips on the front of my car. Most of the little black dots I couldn't circle are chips as well. Forgive me if some are out of focus, I just bought a new digital camera (phatty Canon powershot G6) and am still learning how to use it.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v469/veedubgirl/Smash/IMG_0062_detail.jpg

http://photobucket.com/albums/v469/veedubgirl/Smash/IMG_0066.jpg

http://photobucket.com/albums/v469/veedubgirl/Smash/IMG_0051.jpg

http://photobucket.com/albums/v469/veedubgirl/Smash/IMG_0070.jpg

http://photobucket.com/albums/v469/veedubgirl/Smash/IMG_0086.jpg

http://photobucket.com/albums/v469/veedubgirl/Smash/IMG_0080.jpg

http://photobucket.com/albums/v469/veedubgirl/Smash/IMG_0069.jpg

http://photobucket.com/albums/v469/veedubgirl/Smash/IMG_0082.jpg

nest

12-05-2004, 03:41 AM

My paint is perfect after 7-8+ months. I do agree you seem to have a problem there though. I don't get the impression its a common issue though.

Setarcos4131

12-05-2004, 03:54 AM

hott damn thats a crap load of chipping...people..get ur pics up and get new paintjobs!

nest

12-05-2004, 04:10 AM

My paint is perfect after 7-8+ months. I do agree you seem to have a problem there though. I don't get the impression its a common issue though.

underESTIMATED

12-05-2004, 07:12 PM

smash

12-06-2004, 12:58 AM

Not to ____ on your parade here, but since your a female.... you ride peoples' asses alot?

I have a white box, and still to this day.....the only thing that hits my damn thing is my windshield!! But nothing on the paint. :(

That is alot of chips though, regardless.

Um, no, I don't. And I wish people would stop and think before making ignorant, sexist remarks. You know, males do have higher insurance rates for a reason. Why don't you think about that for a minute before making some snappy remark about women drivers.

underESTIMATED

12-06-2004, 01:07 AM

Not to ____ on your parade here, but since your a female.... you ride peoples' asses alot?

I have a white box, and still to this day.....the only thing that hits my damn box is the windshield!! But nothing on the paint. :(

That is alot of chips though, regardless.

Um, no, I don't. And I wish people would stop and think before making ignorant, sexist remarks. You know, males do have higher insurance rates for a reason. Why don't you think about that for a minute before making some snappy remark about women drivers.
:roll:
Look at who's gettin defensive. [/shruggs]

Males get more speeding tickets, women get more accidents due to carelessness and overall simply can't drive. PERIOD.

nest

12-06-2004, 01:34 AM

Hey now...

Setarcos4131

12-06-2004, 03:50 AM

I love how we all love one another :) :)

KevinxB

12-06-2004, 03:57 AM

I love how we all love one another :) :)

LOL! :D

smash

12-06-2004, 04:21 AM

Janizary

12-06-2004, 07:24 PM

Males get more speeding tickets, women get more accidents due to carelessness and overall simply can't drive. PERIOD.

Mayhap you should check your statistics before opening your mouth and spewing forth nonsense, and showing just how biased and ignorant you are.

To quote the National Center for Statistics and Analysis (Statistics link from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration):

"In 2002 the fatal crash involvement rate per 100K population was almost 3 times as high for male drivers as for females. Males accounted for 68% of all traffic fatalities, 69% of all pedestrian fatalities, and 88% of all pedacyclist fatalities in 2003."

Can be read in full: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/TSF2003/809767.pdf

Looking at a few state-to-state accident statistics publications, the numbers are fairly consistent with approximately 60% of all (reported) auto accidents involving male drivers*. Do a bit of searching and you can find links to various state statistics, or you can get the state-by-state survey mailed/emailed to you from the NCSA.

* [i]for states where the licensed poplution was 50% M/50% F, +/-2%

Setarcos4131

12-06-2004, 09:18 PM

I think its that us males are prolly thinking of our penises while driving...yeah...that must be it...lol...idk I have yet to get a ticket or accident of any kind...but that doesn't mean it wont ever happen.

JBHS98

12-07-2004, 02:07 AM

It seems to me that you have an unusual amount of chips on your car. I do not know if it has anything o do with your location or if you just hit the lottery. I have not had any customers complain or even mention any issues with paint. I wish I had more info from the local area to compare with your situation. I wish you luck with your arbitration, but I have no way to confirm that what you have is a common problem. I think, either way, your car should not look this way this soon. Let me know how it works out. I would also like to know if any Scion owners in the Dallas/ Ft. Worth area have this problem too. Maybe it has something to do with geographical location or something.
Good Luck (sincerely) :D

underESTIMATED

12-07-2004, 04:31 AM

Males get more speeding tickets, women get more accidents due to carelessness and overall simply can't drive. PERIOD.
"In 2002 the fatal crash involvement rate per 100K population was almost 3 times as high for male drivers as for females. Males accounted for 68% of all traffic fatalities, 69% of all pedestrian fatalities, and 88% of all pedacyclist fatalities in 2003."

Your ignorant for even attempting to prove a fact.

Use a new statistic, not something from 20 years ago to gain a bias fact.

I could careless about who drives what/where/how, I was giving her ____ for all the chips on the hood...and not on the front bumper.

Atleast my post was on topic BTW.
EMO girl(s) :roll:

smash

12-07-2004, 05:24 AM

JBHS98- Thanks for your support in this matter. I will keep you updated on the details of my case.

And-

Males get more speeding tickets, women get more accidents due to carelessness and overall simply can't drive. PERIOD.
"In 2002 the fatal crash involvement rate per 100K population was almost 3 times as high for male drivers as for females. Males accounted for 68% of all traffic fatalities, 69% of all pedestrian fatalities, and 88% of all pedacyclist fatalities in 2003."

Your ignorant for even attempting to prove a fact.

Use a new statistic, not something from 20 years ago to gain a bias fact.

I could careless about who drives what/where/how, I was giving her ____ for all the chips on the hood...and not on the front bumper.

Atleast my post was on topic BTW.
EMO girl(s) :roll:

What are you, like 12? That was the most useless excuse for a comeback I've ever witnessed in my life. First of all, her post was relevant- and it further proved my point that you're a moron who doesn't really understand the full scope of his rant. Second of all, where did you pull this "20 year old statistic" BS out of your ___? I see statistics from 2002-2003. And lastly, smooth guy, most of the chips ARE on my front bumper- not just my hood. And if I was "riding people's asses" like you claim, why would the chips be limited to my hood only anyway? That makes no sense for you to say "I was just giving her ____ for the chips on her hood, not the front bumper". Do me a favor and take a minute to formulate a semi-intelligent post before wasting everyone's time with your nonsense and childish rambling. Enough of this. This post has gotten far enough off topic and it's time to put an end to it.

Janizary

12-07-2004, 07:35 AM

Your ignorant for even attempting to prove a fact.

Use a new statistic, not something from 20 years ago to gain a bias fact.

I could careless about who drives what/where/how, I was giving her ____ for all the chips on the hood...and not on the front bumper.

Atleast my post was on topic BTW.
EMO girl(s) :roll:

20 years? Interesting concept of time....as 2002 was two, yes two years ago. Or perhaps it is that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is not a "good enough" data point for statistical analysis for you?

"Careless" and on topic? I don't think I even need to address those...those references should be self evident to anyone who can read.

And last but not least, I am not a girl. To quote "I may have a penis, but I don't have to act like a dick." Being male does not mean I need to be a complete ___ to make my manhood swell. You should see someone about your issues.

smash

12-09-2004, 04:41 PM

Pics yet??? Anyone ????? :oops:

nest

12-12-2004, 03:46 AM

Pics yet??? Anyone ????? :oops:

oh... just clicked on your link.

You're a fox!

I used to live in Reston too, BTW.

Right across the street from South Lakes High School on Lake Audabon, know where that is?

smash

12-12-2004, 05:14 AM

Yeah, I do. Small world huh? Why'd you move to AZ?

nkjs77

12-13-2004, 08:58 PM

I found a detailing kit called DW-3 from Autozone ... (at least I think it was the name...) It worked on my car...

yesti

01-06-2005, 05:39 PM

Both my wife's ssm tc and my ap tc got a few chips in the bumper and hood after about 2 weeks of driving.

Somnambulated

01-19-2005, 10:39 PM

my paint on the Xa was fine, but my friend al all of 103pounds, dented the side of the car by leaning against it...can we say tinfoil!

Try not leaning up against your car. Scratches the paint.

motozen

01-23-2005, 12:30 AM

I hate to say it but that looks like you are hitting alot of bugs. Bugs can destroy your paint and literally rip the paint right off of it... are super white TCs having this issue?

echo_hrs

01-24-2005, 05:42 AM

I've got a Canadian Echo (Vitz) Hatch. I got clear 3M hood protection film applied as soon as I bought the car to prevent chipping. I wax it once a month as specified by my Toyota manual, it's the only way to keep it in top shape...+ stay off the highways...

firesquare

01-24-2005, 02:01 PM

my hood bumper chips are due to driving on 95 and stuff. no major biggie here but i do have an unfinished paint blemish when i got the car @ delivery. didnt help that i didnt see it untill it was sunny on a weekend.

picked up my xB in a snow storm so i saw nothin. no pics sorry

ill just sand the thing down ahd get the hood repainted and LOTS of clear coat

or a CF hood usually works ;)

Prime

01-25-2005, 08:22 PM

Had my XB for about 6mo and it has more chips than I think it should. Out of my fleet of cars this one the worse paint. Even my 97 B2300 work truck has better paint and I donot attempt to take care of it at all. Oh well, next fall comes the custom paint, just want to do all the mods first.

JUMBO

01-25-2005, 08:42 PM

Smash -

I have a customer here who purchased a Flint tC who feels that he has too many chips than his driving would suggest also.

Perhaps there are paint runs in the factory that correspond to production days. Stuff like that happens occasionally in manufacturing.

If you want to PM me with your VIN, I can tell you when the car was built. If it is around the same time as his, we may be on to something.

And those jagoffs _____ing about women drivers - they just weren't loved enough by their moms. :loser:

LATER

smash

01-26-2005, 12:42 AM

Tcion

01-30-2005, 04:47 PM

Somnambulated

02-08-2005, 01:33 PM

Somnambulated

02-08-2005, 01:38 PM

i got a paint chip the dealership is going to cover it up not fix it uhhh i am ____ed but it small and only one so i can handle that but i will keep taking pics of my front end every 3 days to make sure they know their is no pait chips then if i get some more i will post them for ya

You're lucky. My dealership wanted 80.00 to cover a paint chip.

And yes, the paint on our cars is paper thin. I tried wet-sanding a spot I touched up, and my 2000 grit went straight to primer.

Never in three years of detailing cars on the side have I had that happen. My '96 Dodge Stratus had a rock-hard clearcoat and thick paint... Stuff hit that car all the time without the slightest ding.

Not on the tC. I dropped a paintbrush--the small, throwaway plastic deals you get for 89 cents, usually come in watercolor kits--and DINK! DINK! It dented my paint twice when it hit my bumper.

I should have gone with the Dealership overcoat, but I don't have 800.00 to spend on it now out of pocket.

And now it looks like I'll be getting my entire hood recoated, as well.

Lonely_Raven

02-08-2005, 03:08 PM

I've heard the BOP is terrible with chips. I'm hoping not,
because I waited a long time for my BOP and I can't afford
a $4000 paint job on a $14,000 car.

Chimmy3

02-08-2005, 04:11 PM

After 1 month of driving, my BOP has a lot of scratches and chips that I just can't account for... and mostly not on the front of the car. The paint seems really really delicate and when I'm washing the car, I get worried about scratching it. Other cars my parents have owned have never had this problem to this degree (granted they weren't dark colors which show up easier). But still, I have no less than 3 chips along the sides and plenty of scratches. While applying wax to my car only two days after I bought it I noticed that the right side fender already had five scratches.

I don't know what scion will do with this problem if anything.
They may feel that this is normal wear and tear or they could be weighing the cost of releasing such a TSB (imagine everyone going in for a new paint job) vs the amount of bad publicity and court fees. All the people who are willing to "live with it" only contribute to such a problem. Anyhow I'm interested in hearing the results of the arbitration as it may be the basis for a class action.

Other things that might help you in this situation are statistics and experts. I would go to some body shops and ask them about the paint job and any evidence they can provide that it was improperly done, or even if they see an unusual number of scions needing repaints. And for those of you who are griping about people whining b/c you already paid for your repaints.. well depending on if/how things play out you may be able to request a refund for the job). So I would encourage everyone to help the poster out on her quest. As for me, i'll take pics of the damage when I get the chance and send them if you still need them. I've also called and complained to scion about my paint.. but to no avail. I may take things a step further if I have the time.

As for the accident statistics... in defense of all guys... I would say that those statistics are hardly valid to the argument.

For them to be valid, you must hold them up against the ratio of male to female drivers. I highly doubt the ratio is 1:1 (edit: I should add just b/c someone is licensed does not mean they drive, e.g. which is more likely, male driving/female passenger or female driving/male passenger). Moreover, I would compare it against the cumulative amount of time males spend driver per year vs. females. Again, I don't have the actual numbers, but I suspect males spend way more time driving.

Further, if I refined the case even more, I would do a cross-class (compacts, sedans, coupes, etc) study comparing the accident statistics of similiar types of cars. With adequate weight given to time spend driving and driver ratio, that would be a more valid comparison.

Becareful with statistics, given all the information, if I discard the right variables I can easily prove that females are worse drivers with the same numbers you are using.

firesquare

02-08-2005, 07:00 PM

just found my hood starting to rust a bit with a nice rock scratch on it.

im not happy

smash

02-10-2005, 08:00 PM

Update: I'm just waiting on NCDS to get back to me with a hearing date. It should be sometime within the next 30 days.

A large portion of my case will be based around this and other blog sites showing that the problem is widespread and many (though not all) feel there is an issue with the paint on these cars.

The second part will be showing evidence of past paint recalls from major car manufacturers such as Ford, Dodge and Mazda. I have found some major cases in which the company had no choice but to allow customers to bring their cars in to be repainted because the paint was either defective, or, in Dodge's case, applied improperly, leaving out in fact the anti-chip primer component of the paint.

I had been hoping to get more statements in writing from bodyshops, but it's been difficult for the obvious reason that most shops are not willing to take time and money from their business to come to my hearing and testify as a witness. I've received some mixed reactions, some agreeing with Toyota that the chips are just normal from rock impacts- but the majority of body shop specialists I've spoken with have concurred that this amount and severity of chipping and fading occuring on a car that is 6 months old is not to be considered a normal thing. Some have even gone so far as to say that perhaps because I bought the car the first month it was out, that there is a possibility that the paint was not "mixed" correctly in the first few batches produced by Toyota.

I am always willing to talk about this issue if anyone would like to do so, and am still accepting pictures. As always, I appreciate everyone's input on this issue.

ProjectFusion

02-10-2005, 08:49 PM

I'm going to eagerly watch this as my gf is about to buy a TC and the sales guy he's never heard of this problem which I don't know if he's tellin the truth or just tryin to make a sale. I wish you the best of luck with this and hope it turns out for the best for everyone.

Janizary

02-18-2005, 04:31 AM

Well, time to add my new paint issues to this thread.

I now have two nice pockmarks down tothe metal in my hood from a stray pebble. (Which none of the Scion dealers in town have touch up paint for...smart) Also have numerous smal dings on the leading edge of the hood which seem to increase weekly.

Curiously, the front body around and below the headlights/grill shows many dings, but I think the plastic body panel may be the reason the paint gets marred but does not chip off, like the hood. Could be wrong of course. I hate to say it, but I have never in all my cars/trucks had so many paint dings, particularly since most of my cars I owned for 3+ years...and the dings in my tC are in 3 months...

firesquare

02-18-2005, 03:15 PM

does anyone know if the Echo or any other sall toyota is like this?

scionman05

02-18-2005, 04:33 PM

OK.. Now I went to school for autobody for 4 years. worked in a body shope for a few years.. I KNOW what Im doing and/or talking about..

Now.. Everyone is complaining about paint chips right?.. Now as far as this goes there isnt much you can do about this other than limit your driving and the roads you drive on. Cuz chips are caused from "objects" flying up off the road.. and/or from the sky " some ppl are crazy.. so yea" and you HIT it doing anywhere from AVG. 30-60 MPH. Now this will chip your paint if the object is big enough.. There is a way to prevent it somewhat. And that is YES..... A better clearcoat application from the factory.. The paint itself isnt the problem.. Its the thiness of the clearcoat.

Todays manufactorers are painting there cars by computer controlled robots/machines. Yea they can be applied a little better but FACE THE FACT... EVERYTHING IS CHEAPLY MADE IN TODAYS WORLD!!!!.

I also have problems wit my paint too.. I have major scrathing on my pass. side door, drivers door, bottom of bumper.. And also a "PAINT" defect in the drivers door.. Not caused by cheap clearcoar..
But ppl understand. Scion is not going to recall thousands of cars and repaint everyone of them. As much as I think they should.. Consdering.. FORD just recalled.. hundreds of thousands of vehcile in the past 2 weeks..

Also.. the interior of the TC.. idk bout the xb, and xa owners. But I found that the interior scrathes very very easily as well. Now that results in a concern for me and fellow owners as well. You damn near whipe your car down inside and out. and its all scrathed up.. It plain out sux and I am very upset/mad myself..

But . there is a difference in scrathes/dings/chips/peeling

I also noticed "SMASH". That on your bumper there is a pretty big mark on it.. Looks like a big chip and the bumper has an imperfection in it now. That is not caused by improper painting..Something big that flew up on the road.
I am not sayin you are not right at all.. I looked at the pics. I know its not right, But take into consideration that some..some are respectable from road debris. And as well as others..

My suggestion to keep your car as best as possible....
1) wash and wax often. Rinse car very well before washin. Do not rub hard while washing. wash car very lightly. then rinse rinse yoru rag and car. then rewash again at normal rubbing power. To prevent from rubbing "DUST" into your paint and gettin them nasty swirl marks.." my car is full of em.. caused my thin/soft clear coat" Yet 9/10 cars have this anyway
2) Even if you are a professional detailer.." ive done it for years" DO NOT TAKE A BUFFER TO YOU CAR. You will most likely end up wit a bad result. Unless you are EXTREMELY carefule
3) Go to your local body shop and have the front of your car recleared. Most body shops will do this at a reasonable cost. and if you have any scrathes/dings.. expect to pay a little more if you want them removed.
4) Do Not remove your vehicle from the driveway unless its on a flat bad.. "WHAT ELSE ARE WE GOING TO DO"

I will try to get some pics of the imperfections of my car up asap as well as some other things done/ and maybe some poss. mods as well..

I am not to worried bout the paint on my car as well as I am at the same time. BUt hoping to get a body kit so.. in the future it will be painted right.

yesti

02-18-2005, 06:47 PM

klasse all-in-one mostly hides the minor scratches i have, mostly lower rear quarter panels. i have clearshield paint protection film, but it does not go over the leading edges so chips on the edge of the hood would still happen (knock on wood) but it is better than nothing. there are already two combat wounds on the clearshield that saved the paint on the hood.

niksmr2

02-18-2005, 07:27 PM

My 2000 Celica had a ton of rock chips on the front by the first two years I had it. Probably 30-50! That was part of the reason I got rid of the damn car; I didn't want to fork over major $ to get a 2 year old car repainted.

My 94 MR2 has always had a ton of rock chips on the front. And it looks especially crappy because it is black.

However, my 94 Integra had maybe one or two chips at the most. My boyfriend's 2000 Integra has none. Both of those cars have been driven to California and back at least once.

I think Toyota has had an issue with their paint quality for a while now, and its just getting worse.

Tc808

02-22-2005, 03:57 AM

Wow Smash you do have a good amount of dings and chips. I do agree with you 100% about the paint being abnormally soft and thin. I have a 'garage queen' and am very careful when driving yet I have a number of small dings on my bumper. I've owned over a dozen different cars and none have had paint so fragile. IMO, it is not just the thin clearcoat but also the softness of the paint.

I really hope that your efforts pay off and Scion does something about this problem. Good job! :clap:

Tc808

02-22-2005, 04:44 AM

[quote="scionman05"]OK.. Now I went to school for autobody for 4 years. worked in a body shope for a few years.. I KNOW what Im doing and/or talking about..

Now.. Everyone is complaining about paint chips right?.. Now as far as this goes there isnt much you can do about this other than limit your driving and the roads you drive on. Cuz chips are caused from "objects" flying up off the road.. and/or from the sky " some ppl are crazy.. so yea" and you HIT it doing anywhere from AVG. 30-60 MPH. Now this will chip your paint if the object is big enough.. There is a way to prevent it somewhat. And that is YES..... A better clearcoat application from the factory.. The paint itself isnt the problem.. Its the thiness of the clearcoat.

I agree w/ you about the clearcoat being thin but it is also due to the paint itself being extremely soft. Probably just above talc on the Moh scale. lol So small debris which would not damage a harder paint will ding our paint.

But . there is a difference in scrathes/dings/chips/peeling

My suggestion to keep your car as best as possible....
1) wash and wax often. Rinse car very well before washin. Do not rub hard while washing. wash car very lightly. then rinse rinse yoru rag and car. then rewash again at normal rubbing power. To prevent from rubbing "DUST" into your paint and gettin them nasty swirl marks.." my car is full of em.. caused my thin/soft clear coat" Yet 9/10 cars have this anyway
2) Even if you are a professional detailer.." ive done it for years" DO NOT TAKE A BUFFER TO YOU CAR. You will most likely end up wit a bad result. Unless you are EXTREMELY carefule
3) Go to your local body shop and have the front of your car recleared. Most body shops will do this at a reasonable cost. and if you have any scrathes/dings.. expect to pay a little more if you want them removed.
4) Do Not remove your vehicle from the driveway unless its on a flat bad.. "WHAT ELSE ARE WE GOING TO DO"

Good advice on washing technique but where did you get the "Do not take a buffer to your car" stuff? While a rotary buffer should only be used by a professional detailer or someone w/ detaling experience, a random orbital buffer is totally safe to use, even for a novice. As with hand polishing, just make sure you are using the appropriate polishing/compounds.

240SXtoTC

02-23-2005, 02:41 AM

I'll help fix your paint if I can do you.

240SXtoTC

02-23-2005, 02:50 AM

uhhhhhhhhh nevermind. sorry. :lalala:

Torydk87

02-24-2005, 10:05 PM

I had it happen on my xA and my dad said it was normal...ha he was WRONG!!! Hmm...glad to know i'm not insane.

smash

02-28-2005, 02:37 PM

I'll help fix your paint if I can do you.

:rofl:

Janizary

03-02-2005, 05:43 AM

Tried some flint mica touch up paint , looks good. A little 3M 39009 should take out what is left of the touch up.

smash

03-02-2005, 03:13 PM

** UPDATE **

My arbitration hearing will be 2 weeks from today, Wednesday, March 16th.

Wish me luck!

Kzuki

03-02-2005, 03:30 PM

Good Luck Smash. . .Keep us posted!

scionman05

03-02-2005, 08:49 PM

Good luck and def. keep us posted. I am very interested in knowing what they are giong to do or plan on doing. MAke sure you bring up at your meeting about all the complaints and your not the only one

daveman235

03-06-2005, 08:37 PM

GOOD LUCK SMASH. ive been waiting for someone to go ahead and do something about this whole paint issue. This is the main reason why i havent bought the car yet. Im scared too. I dont want thing chipping right after i drive it off the lot. U ROCK SMASH. "dont let the basturds grind ya down" Fight toyota to the death if u have too. Dont give up. .......................ooh yeah your pretty cute, wish i lived in VA

: )

firesquare

03-07-2005, 05:38 AM

I will be goin to the dealer on behalf of Clear coat Flaking off the Pass Rear door lower sill

RedheadedStepChild

03-07-2005, 09:08 PM

I'll put a bug in the ear of the scion dealership here in town. I'll let you know if they have had issues w/ the paint jobs on tC's, SSM in particular.

Good Luck on your case and keep us updated.

-Red

smash

03-17-2005, 03:49 PM

!! Update !!

The hearing went well yesterday.. the arbitrator was an older gentleman who was very nice and seemed to actually care about what I had to say. The Toyota rep was decent as well, a bit rude at times but she was just trying to prove her point I suppose. Here's how it went down..

1) We all sat down.. myself, the arbitrator, the Toyota rep and the Leesburg Toyota manager in a conference room.
2) I was told to present my case- which I did.
- Logs upon logs from SL showing what a widespread issue this paint is
- Statement from body shop describing "excessive paint chipping and fade spots beneath paint resulting in the need for a repaint of front end of the car.. unusual for a car of such age."
- Pages of TSB's and "recalls" or cases handled by auto manufacturers in which paint was found to be faulty for chipping or peeling and having been applied improperly- dealer agreed to repaint/rebuy the car. This was the case for the Mazda RX-7, many of the Dodge Rams and countless Fords throughout the years.
- Logs from SL where two different Scion dealers confirm tC paint colors SSM and IIP will be changed to two different paint codes (same colors however) for the '06 lineup.
- Statement from myself somewhat along the lines of "I am a Marketing major and we have studied the Scion brand. Scion's target market is the youth of this country. The goal of the Scion brand is to get younger Americans to essentially buy in to the Toyota market, and eventually work their way up to Lexus. I feel that based on my experiences with the brand and speaking with many others about their experiences as well, that Toyota is not treating these young adults with the courtesy and respect they deserve. There is an obvious paint problem on these cars and there is a fine line where Toyota must ask themselves if the paint chipping, although clearly stated as not being covered under warranty, becomes an issue that is so bad and so obvious that it must be dealt with in one way or another. I for one can most confidently say that unless several major factors change I will not be a repeat Toyota buyer and will do my best to keep everyone I know from owning one. I understand that impact chips are not covered under warranty- what I'm saying is that when it comes into question that there is a problem with the paint at hand and as a result the paint is being ruined so quickly there is apparently a problem, and suffice it to say Toyota is only alienting current and potential buyers by dealing with the problems in such a brash manner."

.... I went on about other issues but I could seriously write a book about this and don't feel the need to waste all of your time.

The Toyota rep didn't have much of a case other than that "chips aren't covered under warranty" and she brought in a picture that diagrammed a common chip but looked more like an amoeba or some sort of parasite under a microscopic lens.. didn't do much to help her either. She tried to say that all the other proof I'd brought in of past paint "recalls" from other manufacturers was not relevant because they were "not Toyota".. she obviously missed the entire point there.. (I was starting to wonder how bright this lady actually was..)

She then tried to dismiss all the logs I'd brought in from SL, saying they were merely conversations between people. However, I told her if Toyota cared at all about their customers they would do well to read those logs and understand that there is more of a problem than they care to admit. Furthermore "blog" sites are becoming a major factor in companies' decisions.. there have been several articles on the matter this year alone in magazines such as Time and Newsweek. Finally, she of course had no idea and no comment about the paint code changes, and upon inspection of the car itself brought out a magnetic paint thickness meter which you stick on the hood and pull up really quicky.. its supposed to give an approximate reading of the thickness of the paint, she said it should be anywhere from 4-6.5 mils. She said it appeared my paint's thickness was around 5.5 mils. I couldn't even see the numbers because you had to pull the meter up so quickly.. I think she confused the arbitrator a bit as well. I managed to comment that the meter in no way shape or form could test to see if the clearcoat or paint was applied or mixed properly, that it didn't really show much at all. She responded it was merely a "general measure" of the paint's thickness.

At any rate, I feel I did all I could and presented the strongest case possible without the aid of legal counsel- which would have been ridiculous for me to do seeing as it would cost me more to get a lawyer than to repaint the front end of my car. The arbitrator said he would be making his decision in the next 1-10 days and I will be getting a letter from NCDS with the ruling. It's hard to say at this point whether they will find in my favor or not; the scope of this case is large and very widespread and could potentially have a lot of repercussions for Toyota if they do find in my favor. Needless to say I won't be shocked and destroyed if they don't. All I can say is that I tried my best and brought it to their immediate attention that there is a large problem with the paint on these vehicles, whether or not they choose to admit it.

Ashe_WCM

03-17-2005, 04:40 PM

Good Job smash.
No matter what happens or what other people say at least you did something about something wrong

daveman235

03-17-2005, 07:32 PM

wow, nice work. im glad to see that someones doing something about this problem. I also like the way u prepared yourself. with all the statements about the paint from collisions places and SL. Nice work, and even if they decide not to do anything, i say keep fighting. U could be the one that fixes the problem with toyota, and i for one will be thanking u, cuz i really wanna buy this car.

DTurnbull

03-19-2005, 02:34 PM

I wish I had seen this thread before today. My 2005 Xa has got terrible scratchy swirl marks all over the sides and scratches VERY EASILY in general. When I first picked up the car (it was a dealer trade) I dismissed them (the scratches & scratchy look) as something somebody from the other dealer had done by "dry washing" the car, or simply wiping it down with a damp cloth or something similar. Certainly it was something unlike anything I'd seen before (and I've worked for various car dealers & makes for 15 years). I've decided to buff the car out myself (not done yet, bad weather) and go from there, but now I will remain cautiously skeptical.

Looks to me like you've got all your ducks in a row already, but here's another indicator of a wide spread problem: http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/jdpa_ratings/FindJdAwardsResults.jsp

Just thought you might want to look at this too.

My two cents -

David - :love:

UPDATE: Damn it, this link doesn't work right for some reason. Anyway, it will take you to the site, you'll just have to look the car up manually. You'll have to look at the 2004 Scions though, there's no data yet for 2005's. Basically, the exterior only gets a 2 rating. Pretty crappy I'd say.

Lonely_Raven

03-19-2005, 03:03 PM

Smash, you are AWESOME! You have far more courage and
fortitude then most others here who just talk about taking
care of things, you actually go out and do it!!

I for one am greatly appreciative.

Chimmy3

03-19-2005, 07:23 PM

wow I'm glad you saw this through despite all the negativity from people.. Good job ... I hope they find in your favor.

smash

03-19-2005, 09:39 PM

Thank you all for your kind comments. Keep your fingers crossed and I will let you all know as soon as I hear something...

JESSR

03-19-2005, 10:26 PM

Nice pic :P
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/veedubgirl/Smash/pic000.jpg
And yeah the whole chip paint thing sucks.........

Lonely_Raven

03-19-2005, 10:28 PM

Yeah, I'm attempting to keep those comments to myself.

smash

03-23-2005, 03:58 PM

lol... :lalala:

Kzuki

03-23-2005, 08:56 PM

Much props Smash!. . .Good Luck, hope it goes your way. I'm starting to notice fine cracks in my BSP xA's hood as of late, so this problem is an obvious Toyota problem crossing all 3 models of Scion. Sux! It's really my only gripe with the car tho.
Keep us posted :)

JESSR

03-24-2005, 09:07 AM

Once again nice pic :P .................lol..............
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/veedubgirl/Smash/pic000.jpg
And oh yeah I agree with Kzuki.....

Rion

03-24-2005, 12:31 PM

I feel all tingly in my pants suddenly.

smash

03-24-2005, 03:45 PM

:ttth: :silly: we're getting a bit off topic here guys..

mrbridge

03-24-2005, 09:56 PM

Great work smash, very professional, hopefully the arbitrator will see things our way and something can be done about this. I got my first chip yesterday in a situation where it should not have happened and I picked the car up the day before that.

Whatever happens you have my support, and the support of everyone here.

-steve

JESSR

03-27-2005, 09:23 AM

That is a really nice pic though.............. :bow:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/veedubgirl/Smash/pic000.jpg
But yeah sorry for getting people off the subject. It looks like you done all your home work for the paint issue. Good luck.

Chimmy3

03-30-2005, 05:20 AM

I suddenly find it hard to remember that my car has a paint problem...

KevinxB

03-30-2005, 06:10 AM

JESSR: I think its official....you're obsessed.

Ashley: run!

:P

JESSR

03-30-2005, 09:27 AM

JESSR: I think its official....you're obsessed.

Ashley: run!

:P

Nah she's just hot :bow:

Hammerfyst

03-30-2005, 10:24 PM

I wish I had seen this before now. My BCP Box is pitted and scratched all over the front end. I hope they end up doing something if not, I will just have to get it custom painted or wait to see if they will put the t2B into production. :silly:

Rion

03-30-2005, 11:34 PM

I suddenly find it hard to remember that my car has a paint problem...

We have cars?

kgzero

03-31-2005, 12:06 AM

I suddenly find it hard to remember that my car has a paint problem...

We have cars?

:rofl: No wonder, that chick is hot. Who is she? :question:

Chimmy3

03-31-2005, 12:56 AM

I suddenly find it hard to remember that my car has a paint problem...

We have cars?

:rofl: No wonder, that chick is hot. Who is she? :question:

:eyes:
click the link in smash's sig... and scroll down... i believe its pics of her...
:eyes:
nice pics btw...
:eyes:

:doh: ok i didn't post to continue the talk about smash's apparent hotness... :eyes:

:doh: what was it now...

oh yeah... apparently my paint can't even stand up to brushes of plastic... I was vacuuming the box today... and i brushed the paint with the plastic crevice attachment... just a light brush... and i couldn't believe it... white lines showed up immediately (a clearcoat scratch)... this clear coat is pathetic...
I've also noticed lately that my BOP has a weird color now in the setting sun... I hope its not some weird fading effect...

smash you definately have to keep us posted, any idea about when the judgement for the arbitration will take place?

Torydk87

03-31-2005, 01:16 AM

New toyotas paint is horrible on the lower end cars. My previous car was a 2002 Celica GTS. It was mint when I got it, within two months the front bumper was chipped up pretty bad. My xB is doing the same thing. This is a common problem among all toyotas, not just scion. They wont do anything, Celica owners have tried for years now.

Yeah the same problem on the 4Runner. For a $30+ SUV you'd expect the paint to be decent. NOPE. The paint was so horrible we had the bumper and hood repainted within two years of owning it. I had a jeep that i kept for Ten years and I can only think of one or two scratches on the whole thing. Got a really good trade in for it.

smash

03-31-2005, 05:05 PM

They told me up to 10 business days for the arbitrator to make his ruling.. well.. 10 business days from my arbitration date was officially yesterday.. needless to say I will be calling NCDS on Monday if I still have not received any correspondence. Believe me guys.. I've been itchin' to get home from work and head to my mailbox.. so let's keep our fingers crossed for hearing something this afternoon or tomorrow. :pray:

Ashe_WCM

03-31-2005, 05:25 PM

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you too.
Business practices being what they are tho....

smash

04-04-2005, 04:10 PM

Okay well according to NCDS who I just got off the phone with, my decision was mailed out to me on March 21st. Seeing as this is already the worst day of my life I can't say that I'm surprised at this news. Lost in the mail? Of course! Why not!

The lady on the phone was a total b----. No need for that, either. She said she would re-mail the package out to me.. that no she could not tell me over the phone what the decision was.. and that she would also fax a copy of the decision to my office-- at what time today? She didn't know, of course. Just some time today, maybe.

I will be freakin' glad when this entire ordeal is overwith!!

Eddieg

04-04-2005, 04:47 PM

That's why I had ROCKBLOCKER installed on my box! Rock chips are the least of my worries!

smash

04-04-2005, 07:53 PM

!! UPDATE !!

SUMMARY OF REPRESENTATION: (My Rep was Kimbra Marsh, in fact).

The parties presented and I reviewed and considered the following evidence: Customer Claim Form with Customer correspondence, vehicle service tickets, an estimate from Classic Automotive, Inc., internet postings regarding paint problems and vehicle repair history summary.

The position of the Customer was the her new vehicle experienced paint chips within the first 2 months of ownershipr and more have developed since. She stated that there is one "moisture fade spot". The Customer stated that she believes the chips are from road rocks, but the deterioration of the chip indicates a defect in the paint. This was not actually my point-- my point was that the car was chipping too excessively and too rapidly to be considered normal- but apparently the arbitrator didn't get it.

The Customer wants the entire front-end of the vehicle repainted.

The position of the Manufacturer was that the condition of the vehicle is, indeed, paint chips caused from road debris and is not covered under the warranty. Duh. The Toyota Rep stated that only defects in the paint are covered. This is the part where I tried to point out that there is a fine line between defective and normal paint-- I still feel to this day that the Silver Streak Mica paint has some sort of defect in it-- either in the way it was mixed or applied-- however I had no way of physically proving this, obviously.

At the request of the Customer, an inspection was conducted as part of the hearing. During the inspection, the paint thickness was measured by a tool provided by the Toyota Representative. Again, here I pointed out to the arbitrator that this tool in no way can accurately measure if the paint was mixed and/or applied correctly to the car.

DECISION:

After reviewing the complaint(s) and hearing the proofs and arguments of the parties and taking into consideration the applicable manufacturer's new vehicle warranty, and the applicable warranty including the applicable State Statute commonly referred to as the "Lemon Law", and after due deliberations, I find and Award as follows:

The Customer's request for the entire front-end of the vehicle to be repainted is hereby DENIED.

I have reached this conclusion because the Customer did not present compelling evidence of a defect in the paint at the hearing."
----------------------------------------------------------

So that's it, folks. I tried my best; I honestly had no other way other than spending thousands of dollars to have the paint scientifically tested, of proving a defect in the paint-- or at least this is how Toyota and the Arbitrator felt. Looks like anything short of an extremely large-scale class action suit (which is very improbable) is going to sway them. I tried! Sorry to everyone who had their hopes up as much as I did!

jmiller20874

04-04-2005, 08:07 PM

I'm sorry to hear that, but I have to give major applause to you. :clap: You did what alot of people wouldn't have had the balls to do (not saying you have actual balls, you know what I mean).

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Sciond

04-06-2005, 03:20 AM

More people need to go the route you did so they spend money defending themselves

smash

04-06-2005, 04:12 AM

Thanks again everyone. I'm only sorry I couldn't win one for the team y'know.. :(

But anyway, yea I wish more people would do what I did.. then maybe they'd take us more seriously. You know, for a company that's supposed to be marketing to the youth of this country, they sure did treat me like ____ the whole time. Maybe a couple of big fat lawsuits in their face would make them think twice about their attitude.

Skeeterflea

04-06-2005, 04:25 AM

I wish I had the energy to go out and do this myself. I don't think I could articulate my thoughts and conrtol my emotions enough to hold a normal conversation with a Toyota rep. I don't take to condascending (sp?) people very well. I'd freak out on them and get a restraining order or something.

Anyway, sorry they didn't decide in your favor. I truly commend you for the fortitude to follow through with your complaint. sad day

uRpOoDoO

04-06-2005, 03:43 PM

If we want the problem fixed this is what i think we should do. We should pick a day that each and everyone one of us go to the dealership that you bought yours from. I mean the same time same day and if we can get Each and everyone of us that has paint issues im sure we can make a statement. One person going and doing this will do nothing. Im sure EVERYONE that has a scion has the same problem that would mean we have 4650 and some change of registered people that own scions on this forum that can do this. I know not everyone cares but hey i would if i just bought a new car. Lets take the cars to the dealership make a complaint about the problem. If they get 500 complaints at the same time then this will not isolate the problem this will show a real problem. I am sure it will do nothing and im just dreaming right now at work but hey im sure they would get the idea about the problem and it is not just Smash.

:blah:

RockBlocker

04-06-2005, 05:38 PM

I am very sorry to hear that they didnt side with the customer in this case. From my experience with making sure rock chips are either stopped or minimize with our paint protection films we offer. I have found throughout all forums and different manufacturer's of automobiles the same complaints over and over again. From Infiniti to Audi to Scion. It doesn matter what make and model you have they will chip. For Example, I come from the Subaru community and this has been a huge complaint from them since the WRX came out aka same time the EPA requirements were changing.

From research on the net we have found that the EPA for the US has changed the painting techniques and up what they call the standards for painting. This has caused an effect globally and every manufacturer is changing their painting techniques.

There is not much you can do except dont drive your car, get a clear bra or deal with the chips the way they are.

The choice is yours and what you will do about it. These are just my opinion and knowledge gained from searching the internet.

Chad

TheScionicMan

04-06-2005, 06:55 PM

Thanks, Chad. It's good to hear from people that see other carmakers having this problem. It's an industry standard that changed, not Scion cutting corners.

smash

04-06-2005, 07:38 PM

I do understand every car manufacturer has complaints about this.. I just simply cannot agree based on my experiences with this car compared to my other cars and those of friends and family. Oh well. I am not here to convince anyone anymore that this is a problem.

yesti

04-06-2005, 08:10 PM

RockBlocker

04-06-2005, 08:51 PM

i have clearshield deluxe kit on one of the tCs and that thing took one for the team with a hole in the plastic that for sure would've left a good size ding in the paint. $500 installed (the guy said on a scale of 1 to 5 it is a 10! ;P) how much would an extra clearcoat help the paint?

Glad to hear you have protection now. No offense but if he called a tC a 10 I would hate to see what he would call a Porsche Cayenne Turbo. tC are relatively easy cars. Especially the hood and fenders.

yesti

04-06-2005, 09:26 PM

no the hood and fenders were easy, the BUMPER he said was hard. (i got deluxe kit, basic kit is only hood and fenders) it is all one piece and has a lot of 'fingers', curves and what not. on their site, porsche (2003-cur cayenne deluxe does not fit turbo model) is about the same difficulty as tc:

http://www.clearshield.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/Catalog.Home

Chimmy3

04-06-2005, 10:52 PM

wow sorry to hear you didn't win the arbitration smash...
I guess it kinda makes sense in that we have no concrete evidence of faulty paint (I think its just a cheap paint job...). I guess in their eyes all we really have are opinions.

I guess to win you would've needed a paint expert or something. Even then its only another opinion.

I think it sucks the arbitor didn't even really understand your complaint.

Anyhow it was great that you at least tried to get something done about your car,

firesquare

04-09-2005, 05:35 AM

smash

im about to go through what you have already went through within afew weeks. my xB is starting to rust from rock chips on the hood and front fenders, and clearcoat is coming off in random places. im fed up with it so much in fact, i was thinkin of lookin into getting rid of this xB.

the RR rocker pannel in the door seam area is where clear coat was first chipping, peeling off, this was repaired and warrinted in less than a day. this was about 2 months ago

heres my new story as of today
washing my car. i notice a few inches above where it was clear coated, Clearcoat is chipping off again. then after i finished dryng, i notice that more clearcoat is chipping and peeling off on the roof area, i haev 3 rust spots on the hood, and a rust spot in the LF fender by the headlight. im almost wondering on toyotas paint reliability issues like they had in the 80's, where a Toyota motor would outlast a body.

so i was so furious i called scion. they were awesome on the phone and drew up a case number and are contacting my dealer sometime early next week. i requested a full reapaint and clearcoat of the car. i hope it works because if my car rust away on me before i can pay it off. im gonna be ____ed.

i cant take pictures yet because im without a digital camera and a disposeable wont really do justice on the car.

thanks all for listening to my rave.

smash what did you end up doing?

id suggest gettin a body shop to throw on some more clearcoat on the hood and front fenders if you got the extra cash lying around :-\

Chimmy3

04-09-2005, 07:05 AM

i'm saying too bad there are no kits to clear bra the entire car... i would've gone for that when it first came out before all the scratches...

I'm not sure how much another clearcoat will help... I think if you get it done right, it'll stop the little stuff like swirls or the paint not being so delicate as to suffer deep scratches or chips. but on dark colors you'll still get the white lines that come from the clear coar being scratched.

firesquare

04-09-2005, 07:10 AM

there out there. if i get everything repainted, that will be put on asap

XBvitoXB

04-13-2005, 05:40 AM

Well another happy customer
I didn’t even go for my first oil change yet and have paint chips on the lip of my hood and all over my bumper . Common guys this if definitely one of the worse paint jobs Toyota has ever produced on the scion line. I have lots of friends that drive all different model Toyota’s even my next door neighbor with a 84 corolla has rust but no chips . Most of late model Toyota’s I see on the road have better paint than the box.
I am truly disappointed in the quality of the paint . Every day a see a new chip. Well my survey just came in the mail and guess what the number one thing I wrote negative about . Maybe if we start emailing scion they may wake up and try to produce a better paint job so that the next XB buyers don’t get screwed like we all did . If anyone has any idea of how to make them realize how bad this situation is I’ll be the first one on line to _____ with them. Maybe we should write to different car magazines and let then know about this problem. Apparently its not just a few of us but most of us.

speculative

04-19-2005, 04:21 PM

I think this is more a problem with modern paint jobs. I don't remember older cars/trucks having this problem, but my WRX hood eats rocks. I've had the hood only a year (someone backed into my car and I needed the hood replaced) and yet there are at least 10 very noticeable rock chips on the front, the bigger ones are about 3-4mm across... So much weight has to be added to cars nowadays that I figure they save weight by putting on 3 less coats of paint. :eyebrow:

smash

04-19-2005, 09:53 PM

well, as of now i haven't done anything about my paint situation. i've been flat broke the past 2 months and have come to the conclusion that spending $1200 to repaint the front end of the car plus another $500-650 for a clearbra is not worth it on such a new car.. that's something that shouldn't have to be done for several years down the road..

so, for now i'm settling for a good ole' tube of touch-up paint and will go from there until i figure something else out. by the way, that's an excellent idea to contact car mags and notify them of this situation and everything surrounding it.. it sounds like quite a lot of people are getting ____ed off at this whole thing and i don't blame any of them (i'm one of them, duh). this weekend i'm going to try and get the contact info for several of the major mags (C/D, MotorTrend, SportCompact, etc.) and see what I can come up with. at least it's an inexpensive way to bring this to someone else's attention. i've also considered writing Toyota's president in Japan, just to let him know the whole situation and that i'm not happy about it and don't plan on buying another Toyota again. not that it would do any good, but again, it's worth a try.

XBvitoXB

04-20-2005, 04:39 AM

smash

I think it’s a great idea if we all search the web and find car sites that let you leave customer
Remarks and car magazines is definitely a good idea and by the way I think we should link this trend to who ever we write http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=30013&start=125 so that the people out there can read for them self’s what your been thru and what all of us are ____ed off about . Smash if I can be of help you have my vote .. ciao

VShalla

05-12-2005, 05:45 AM

Yeah I have four little dook marks on my rear bumper where some cardinal was sitting on my rear wiper fighting himself in the reflection of the glass. Stupid bird shat all over my bumper, and now i have little spots.

mredz

05-12-2005, 06:22 AM

I've had my Flint tC for just over 4 months with 8,500 miles on it and my hood has atleast 20 paintchips in it and also 2 small rust spots within 2 of those paint chips. I cant say that i'm pleased at all with this. I know that rust is covered under warrenty but I've been told I'd have to let the thing go for another year till it rusts all the way through the hood inorder for the rust warrenty to kick in. What do you guys think I should do?

crayonBOX

05-12-2005, 07:11 AM

I'll add my car to the pile, 2005 xB, BSP, so many paint chips...this stuff comes off like clothes on a cheap hooker. SCION, please do a TSB on a better clear coat for your cars; after all, this is your DAILY advertisement!!

YuiEdie

05-12-2005, 07:28 AM

Paint chips, bubbles, scratches, etc., I got 'em all. What can I do? Simply wash and wax my car as much as I can. And next car I get I'm going to make sure it has a good paint job via forums such as this one.

tiny

05-12-2005, 11:07 AM

i wish i saw this earlier. if scion/toyota wanna be like that then fukc em. you wanna hurt their feelings? dont write a letter to Toyota of Japans President...let them find out themselves.
First you get other scion owners that live near you with the same problems as yours, and protest across the street or in front of their dealerships. Have signs saying things about their poor customer service and poor paint quality. potential buyers will sway and scion will feel the bite.
Also try and get your local newspaper or better yet your city's television news station to do a report on it... all of this is legal and free.
they will see the drop in sales, the head honchos will wonder "WTF" and they can keep their cheap paint. I use to have 90 toyota cressida, no paint chips and no rust.
if toyota/scion would rather lose customer satisfaction than a couple hundred dollars fine. in the end they'll lose thousands.

LVScionGal

05-26-2005, 08:10 AM

After reading all these posts I suddenly dont feel so bad. We bought mine at Longo and got BAD chips cruising home to LV!! My husband was so ____ed off! Plus we got a crack in the windshield too. My husband had second thoughts about the box...ON SECOND THOUGHT I THINK ILL GET *ANOTHER* CHIP MAGNET!!! :rofl:

My front bumper looks like its been thru hell and back now!! :( We only had the RS2 ONE DAY when we saw a BAD chip on the bumper!

Life sucks without extra clear coat! I mean how much could it cost Toyota to add a second coat! Whats worse is when you look at the chip you can see just how many layers of paint there AREN'T!! :roll:

JMHO!

Resinated_Lungs

05-28-2005, 09:06 AM

*****edited*****

I no longer think I have a defective paint job on my RS 1.0 TC...I think i was jumping the gun on this one..Hope Toyota does right to all those that did get a bunk paint job on their cars... Sorry to hear about your misfortune guys....

LVScionGal

05-31-2005, 04:31 AM

And get this....my husbands RS2 is in the body shop....they swear Toyota paints them with this awesome tuff as nails paint!!!

Well maybe the ones in Japan but NOT the ones here just ask a hundred thousand of US! :eyebrow:

YuiEdie

06-01-2005, 06:08 AM

i think our xb's are made in japan and shipped here but yeah, a lot of us are going to be needing new paint jobs in our cars lifetime. dealer chipped our paint when they installed our taillights! Argh!

LVScionGal

06-02-2005, 01:41 AM

LOL yeah I know they're made in Japan but I think the ones coming here get painted different.

LOL Just kidding!

We've had fifteen cars and NONE have looked as bad as my xB!! Not even the ones we've had a couple of years! Its so sad!!!! I love this car most and it looks like I dont!

Prime

06-02-2005, 01:48 AM

I have hade my XB for one year and a day. It should not be covered in paint chips. Bugs cause the paint to chip off. I know I will never buy another Scion again unless they do something about the paint. It is sad that I am going to have to paint this car this winter and it wont even be two years old. I have 5 other cars and the paint on them is holding up and looking better than the paint on my XB. My 97 work truck has less paint chips and it gets next to no care taken of it's finish. I wash the XB atleast once a week, keep it waxed and everytime it ____es me off the amount of new chips in the paint. Come on Scion get your act togather, if you want repet Toyota buyers you have to do better than this. Atleast admit there is a problem and correct it.

cerealkiller

06-02-2005, 03:09 AM

:tap: :tap: I've had my TC since Nov and it makes me sick everytime I wash it
cause I keep finding more and more chips & scratches....then today the icing on the
cake,some jerk who apparently can't stand someone owning a nice looking(if chipped)
vehicle keyed my passenger side :flame: :gun:
Oh well I know a guy that fixes chips and dings so I'll have to see if he'll cut me deal
then check into adding some more clearcoat or a clear bra on...really sucks.

LVScionGal

06-02-2005, 06:16 PM

It sucks doesn't it! Everytime I go to Cali I come home with more rock and bug chips!!

My husbands friend said *Well if it makes you feel better....PepBoys now sells Scion touch up paint!* NOOOO it doesn't make me feel better that after 8 months I need touch up paint! I had my Jeep for THREE YEARS with only ONE rock chip and I was making the SAME drive in it! :flame:

smash

06-02-2005, 08:22 PM

Lonely_Raven

06-02-2005, 08:56 PM

Sorry Smash. I'm still in the same boat as you.

My 87 SAAB has less paint chips after 330,000 miles then
my box does after only 3 months...

LVScionGal

06-02-2005, 09:02 PM

My husband got his back window broken out all the way...BUT there is MORE damage to the bumper from the broken glass then the cost of the window and replacement....now tell me theres NO paint problem!!!! :ttth:

toastbox

06-02-2005, 09:43 PM

Yes. Yes it sucks I know. My car looks so terrible in the front now.. after losing the stupid arbitration case I just stopped caring for some reason. I don't have $1300 + $500 for a re-paint of the front end of the car and a ClearBra. I don't think the car is worth it to be honest.. I might as well get a whole new paintjob if I'm gonna do that.

I am so infuriated with Scion. I'd e-mailed and called them for months about the supposed color changes for IIP and SSM in '06.. and they denied it each and every time. And now look!! A NEW blue and a NEW silver! But they're still the SAME color just a different paint!! Come on Scion, do you think we're all morons? I know what's going on here. It drives me nuts.

You know...it'dbe a shame if someone were to key the parts of your car that have paint chips....your insurance would cover the repaint job, and then all you'd need would be a clearbra. Of course, I have no actual experience with anything like that..... :lalala:

LVScionGal

06-02-2005, 09:58 PM

Yeah it was ashame when the neighbor beat up my husbands box all around...even the front bumper part.... :lalala:

LOL

We Scion owners think alike huh? ;)

Gortok

06-03-2005, 12:44 AM

So...what do you guys think about the "front end mask"/bra thingie?
I've seen where the top edge (over the hood) will catch and hold dirt...scratching the hood under it...
Is the clear a better idea? What about fading? If I ever take off the clear, will there be a noticable difference??

LVScionGal

06-03-2005, 03:14 AM

I have the front end mask on my TCM. I dont think I'll be putting it on another one though. It does get dirty under it.

I have no idea about the clear bra but I'd like to know too bc I want to put it on my next box.

:)

Gortok

06-03-2005, 04:55 AM

Does the movement/vibrations from it flapping in the breeze cause it to scratch the paint?
Which is worse? Scratches or nicks?

smash

06-03-2005, 02:26 PM

yesti

06-04-2005, 05:56 PM

You know...it'dbe a shame if someone were to key the parts of your car that have paint chips....your insurance would cover the repaint job, and then all you'd need would be a clearbra. Of course, I have no actual experience with anything like that..... :lalala:

:ponder: Hm.. givin' me ideas.. but wouldn't that make my insurance rates go up?

..You're terrible! hehe.

well i can't see why they would only key the parts with chips... :lalala: your insurance would most probably go up for the claim.

PolarWhiteGirl

06-06-2005, 11:16 PM

After reading these pages and pages of threads I have already got an appointment set up for my xB to be totally re-cleared as soon as it comes in. Since I'm only paying 15 some odd thousand dollars I figure I might as well spend another grand and make it right.

fromos

06-09-2005, 01:45 AM

The paint job is the first thing anybody see about the car, this is obviously one of the most important issues for Scion to correct.

Sciond

06-12-2005, 02:57 AM

Maybe like I said if we all keep taking them to arbitration and make them keep spending time and money to defend themselves....

ProzacRsin

06-13-2005, 02:59 AM

:doh: Man i just orderd my 05 BCP xb last night, wish i would of seen this thread before I might of changed my decision. Guess i will be extra carefull. Thanks for info.

mortis29

06-13-2005, 09:25 PM

I've washed my BCP xA twice now, it has just over 1k miles, and the swirl marks in the paint are for crap. I've also found three random scratches on the car, down to the ultra thin primer. The paint sux bad! My 02 PT Cruiser was hit last year and even after beating out the dent and buffing out the paint from the other car, the paint didn't chip! WTF Toyota? I'll keep my xA, but it's definately getting a thick coat of clear.

I just finished reading the entire thread, good Job Smash, sorry it didn't go better with your meeting, and oh yeah, you're FINE girl! Nice TAT! :bow:

magiczz

07-05-2005, 07:14 PM

I bought my Scion XA about a month ago, its the limited run Mica Metallic Blue with spoiler/fog lights sports grill.

We told the salesman that we were worried about the dark color and scratches. He told us that there were 5 coats of clear coat! Well not knowing better we bought the car.

Took one trip to Tacoma, got 3 rock chips in the hood and guess what? you could see there was NOT 5 coats of clear coat. in fact the chips were down to bare metal.

I called Scion and found out that they don’t use more than one coat of clear on any model.

I printed a bunch of posts from this board and went to a meeting with the regional.
At first he started to back out by saying all cars get rock chips and that its because of the EPA regulated paint and that its not covered by the warranty.

I handed him a thick stack of posts from this forum and highlighted certain posts where complaints had been filed and arbitration discussed.

I told him “now what you are holding is proof that both Scion and Toyota have known about this issue previous to the purchase of my car do you agree?”

He said yes. I said well then that is considered non-disclosure this would be grounds for cancellation of my contract allowing me to back out of the car. Furthermore, there was no option made to the consumer to protect the investment against a known shortcoming in the paint. On top of that, I was simply lied to.

I told him that he needs to fix the chips or I would be forced to take other actions.

Long story short, they had their paint guy fix the chips, and I have an appointment to go get a custom clear bra at the dealerships expense.

Those of you going through this should print the posts and prove non-disclosure.

A $600.00 clear bra is far cheaper for the dealership than having you back out of your contract.

El_altruista

07-06-2005, 04:13 AM

¡Hola gente!

I will be buying an xA within the next months. Is the poor quality paint an issue with all colors or just some? If it is for all, which ones look worst darker ones or ligheter ones?

I looking at the Phamtom Gray, black Pearl, Black Chery of the silver one.

Thanks.

Preacher

07-08-2005, 03:49 AM

Well guys and gals,
my BCP is showing some paint scratches as well. Especially around the door handles.
But the real kicker is that two weeks after having my box, my 5 year old runs his bike with the missing hand grips into the drivers side rear door making a nice "Zorro" mark on the door. Plum down to the primer. So I am really bummed, but hey, it will be OK right.
Then I am washing and notice the other scratches, and then I notice that the paint on the spoiler is like bubbling off. I mean clear circles where the white primer is showing through.
Well I go directly to my stealership and tell them I need a new spoiler. They want to know what happened to the door. I am there about the spoiler not the door. Well after a threatening "what are you going to do" they ordered me a new spoiler. The sales manager offered to have the door done while they were repainting my spoiler. NO GO says the service guy as they are going to order a new spoiler so no painting is in store for me. Has been two weeks now and still no word from them.

Oh about the TC problems, well Smash, some gal called and raised cane with the service tech as I was standing there waiting on the manager. I mean I could hear her yelling about the paint, he says it is probably rock pits and that it is not covered. Well the dude says he would have to take it to his manager, puts her on hold, talks to the manager and I hear him say, you want me to find out when he can get her in? Hangs up and calls the body shop gets confimation of when they can do it, gets back on the phone with the gal and tells her she will have to leave the car for two days to repaint the front.
So my question is;
1) are you in Joplin, MO area and did they get your car painted after using some colorful language to discuss the car's paint and the family heritage of the service man.
2) If you are not from Joplin, MO, find out who this chick is and use her script to get yours repainted as apparently it worked well!!!

smash

07-08-2005, 02:21 PM

What the F? What's the name of your dealership, I need to call them up and find out what's going on. That doesn't sound right at all. I really really wish you could speak with your service advisor and perhaps attempt to find out who she was.

That really burns me up!!!!!!!

Preacher

07-12-2005, 04:18 AM

Frank Fletcher Scion - Joplin, MO.

Might be quite a drive for you though as if I remember right you are on the right coast!
I could have swore he mentioned a TC when she called as well.
And just so you know, it has been now two and one half weeks since I took it in and they still have not called me yet. Guess I will call them tomorrow!

ludwigdergott

07-13-2005, 07:11 PM

Hey,
New ScionLifeR here, just wanted to log on to see if anyone else has had this problem! Looks like I'm not the first. I don't actually have much damage in front, but I have a HUGE scratch on the very top of my car. You know that's not from a rock or something. What the heck?

Ericvpellegrino

07-13-2005, 10:00 PM

When purchasing you have the option of getting the clear coat sealant added. Also if the car is bubbling take it to the dealer, the paint should be covered under the 3 year 36000 mile warranty. ONLY THE BUBBLING because you should be able to argue that its not from normal wear and tear. The scratching however won't be covered for sure. As far as the denting goes for tht person who says they dent easy (like the 100 pound girl leaning on it) well the integrity of the metal has nothing to do really with the thickness or metal type, but mainly to do with the shape of the panels. any car with panels that shape (flat) would likely do the same. I have tested it on many vehicles myself and that is just how it is. The more curved or angles it has the more integrity it will hold. Sorry thats just how it works. The only way to fix this would be to put support behind the panels.

Ericvpellegrino

07-13-2005, 10:07 PM

I was informed that the 3 year 36000 would not cover the bubbling either, sorry bout that, in some other news toyota is going to a new paint process in the next couple of years, start writing the manufacturer and demaing that they apply this to the scions as well.

I_dont_know

07-13-2005, 10:17 PM

El_altruista

07-13-2005, 11:18 PM

When purchasing you have the option of getting the clear coat sealant added.

Ericvpellegrino,

For how much did they offered to you when you made your purchase?

smash

07-14-2005, 04:09 PM

Besides the crappy paint. . . has anyone noticed the plastic on the car gettin marred by the rocks? (as in, not only is the paint chipping, but it appears as if the rocks are leaving dents in the plastic ie. front lip/bumper)

Yes! Holy crap my bumper is like one big pin-cushion riddled with all types of indentations and pock marks from rocks or other debris. It's like the stuff goes through the paint and then warps the plastic on the bumper and you're left with a huge, sometimes raised bump in the plastic. Looks like sh!t !!!

I just got my car washed but its raining all this week so when I get a chance I'll take updated pictures of my hood and front bumper/fenders. It's ghastly.

STAT

07-20-2005, 01:18 AM

well I sent e mails to C/D motor trend and sports compact, (taking your idea smash about e mailing them) I'm sure the more people who bring this up to them the more likely they will look into it. it takes 15 min or so for all 3, even less if you just write a letter in word and cut and paste :P
if you all want others to help you need to point them in the wrong direction, or pick them up and throw them both has worked for me :eyebrow:
oh and to add to some things from earlier, smash awesome job trying to get sh!t going, and you are hot MMM :wink: ok, well hopefully others will do the same

blackpearl

07-27-2005, 03:21 AM

My tC is my first black car. I had a red MR2 (85) and a red Celica (88). Kept the Celica until 2004. The Celica was under a cover in the garage for most of its life. I had to travel. 50K when I sold it. From 6 feet, the car looked great, but the clear coat was splotchy when viewed in angled light. Dealer always said that it was acid rain. Under a magnifying glass you could see that the clear coat was pitted.

No blotches on my tC (5K). But, it scratches way too easily. Plastic door guards scratched it. Hit one while washing the car. It moved down the door and it left white lines in the paint. That ain't right. Clear nail polish would be harder.

I am now using a squeegy (WalMart), microfiber towels to dry the car. That and pints of McGuires wax! Thems the breaks. I would consider a bra, but it would probably scratch the paint!

smash

07-28-2005, 02:21 AM

mattssi

07-30-2005, 10:10 PM

Just an update... My car is one week old and I have 2 paint chips in the hood. I even bought a front end mask, and what do you know...it didn't save me at all. This blows, I have to figure out how to get this taken care of

mattssi

07-30-2005, 10:12 PM

Oh...and my xA is about 3 months old, and the hood has about 10 chips on the hood. NICE!!!

wizzlexB

07-30-2005, 10:29 PM

I've been reading this thread, and the more I read, the more worried I get about my new xB....is there a preventive step that can be taken for this paint problem?? I saw someone mention adding a stronger clear coat. How much does something like that cost? Any particular brand anyone suggest? :nails:

wizzlexB

07-30-2005, 10:34 PM

oh yeah. and to chime in with the general opinion....smash is pretty cute. Rock on girl... :)

PRE5TON

07-31-2005, 12:10 AM

I'm going to send an email to scion to support the cause, but I HAVE NO PAINT CHIPS....yet. I've had the car about 2 1/2 months and living in AZ with all the rocks, i'm surprised i haven't been nailed by one yet. I just got RockBlocker's full kit and will be installing it hopefully sometime this month. That is definitly going to help knock down my chances of getting rock chips, especially because RockBlocker is warranty-ed against them.

jkukis

08-10-2005, 06:14 PM

smash

08-10-2005, 07:00 PM

I'm picking up my NB TC tomorrow and this is my only fear is that the paint will be a nightmare. Where are all of your guys nicks, scratches, gouges on the car, mostly the front bumper, or like the hood, sides, everything? I'm gonna ask the dealer when I go tomorrow if theres anything he knows about the paint or any guarantee he can give me, doubt it but at least I can say I brought it up.

Honestly, I would say spend the money and go with a ClearBra like Rockblocker or 3M. I wish I had known about the paint because I would've done it ASAP after buying the car .. but too late now I'd have to have the whole front-end repainted first before being able to put the stupid thing on.

The chips occur mainly on the front bumper, hood and front fenders.

STAT

08-11-2005, 02:19 AM

I also see them on the A pillar and the top just above the door but the could be from me holding on to that with my hands. but that's just me.

GunShy

10-28-2005, 08:59 AM

... just as I was ready to buy a new 2006 xb. I noticed a few swirls and "stains" here and there, this on a vehicle just off the truck and brought over from another dealer in a trade for a tc they needed.

This just makes my eyes bleed reading all of this.

I should know better than to buy ANY car that uses a clear coat finish, as these kinds of paint jobs are far too fragile in the first place, this I learned the hard way on my '88 Toyota Alltrac wagon. For a vehicle meant for real use, the paint chosen was a bad one, as it more than chipped, it downright shattered like glass. That original Toyota paint was "Red Mica Pearl".

I had the whole hood repainted once, only to in days have more paint problems than before. Right down to the bare metal on even a small stone chip, and I could see the clear coat broken far beyond where the paint was broken out.

It was explained to me by those that knew what they were doing, that if you get the paint too THICK underneath the fragile clear coat, it just lets the clear coat break faster ( no real support, like having loose foam as a base ), and the paint gives away and pulls off as the clear coat shatters off. Clear coats are just too much to fuss with for something that is going to do duty beyond sitting in a showcase. Clear coats are a shortcut for doing a high gloss finish with a decent paint in the first place.

In contrast, my '89 Acura Integra held up like a champ for well over 259K miles, the original paint still mostly all there on the hood. Yes, it took some dings over the years, and yes, some of the high spots went from that nice bright red to almost a pale pink or even white, but it held onto the metal like it was glued there, and the touch up paint would hold up just about as well, if put on right. My color here was just plain old Rio Red, a nice thick and rubbery type of paint, that felt more like skin than hard paint.

When after a huge wreck on the Alltrac, I had the dealer repaint the car with a non clear coat finish using Silkkens paints instead of the type used by Toyota ( Solartronic?) that required a clear coat to finish it, and I never had anywhere near the problems I did before. Even after I got the car back one day, the very same day I got it back ( the local thugs keyed it a week before, and came back to continue their fine social work ) it was egged, and I was only able to flush it off. I got some pitting of the new paint, but it didn't get down into the lower layers, and it never got to the metal, hence it never rusted.

Funny, how on the Integra, when some hack did a cheap paint job and used clear coat to finish it, my 3 year old daughter showed me how with her little fingers she could just peel and chip that crap right off. This clown didn't even bother to wash the car before he sprayed the clear coat on to blend things, and what a mess.

The key to making any paint job hold up well, is to do the metal prep work right, getting all of the deep down inside grease, fats, salts, and water out of it way below the surface, doing a proper primer job ( which means fine coats, allowed to dry completely between coats ), and doing a nice layer by layer paint job with a good solid paint.

It irks me to no end, to look up inside a trunk area on new cars, and see whole areas of BARE metal staring back at me, even if the metal is "treated" with some coating or another. That just leads to problems, but I digress.

I was told by a Scion dealer that some of the Scions coming in now are done up using the same paints as on the Lexus cars, and tonight we looked at a new xb that had all of the door frames and the pillars all painted the same as the body color, no longer using the wraps or other blackening methods used before. It looked a whole lot better, but if its not good paint, or isn't done correctly, that will be a mess faster than what you would find with the other methods.

Its becoming clear ( no pun intended ) to me, I won't get the life or miles out of cars today, like I used to, and it will cost me more now than it ever did back then to get a good, solid, basic car.

Some last thoughts on this paint job mess many of you are facing.

1. True enough, a paint depth gauge will only tell you how thick the paint is, not how well it was put on, or how good the paint is. I once again point out here, it was proven to me how TOO thick a paint job, one not well done, will be worse with a clear coat than a properly done but thinner non clear coat paint job.

2. I had a detailer prove to me, better paints and paint jobs feel like skin, and should even feel like they have a little "give" to them. You treat these paint jobs the way you treat your own skin, you wash out the dirt, but you have got to remove the water trapped in the paint with materials that keep the paint fresh and pliable, and not try to "shellac" the finish, but rather fill in the pores in the paint with things that will keep moisture and grime from getting in and eating away the finish from below. The idea of "sealing" the paint is sound, but it can't be brittle, or trap things inside that will damage first the lower layers of paint, and then corrupt the surface when that all gives away. Think like something along the lines of "Oil of Olay" for your paint job.

3. A water based paint can be as good or better than a "solvent" based paint, if the material that is left behind ( that which is the paint itself ) after the "vehicle" that allowed the paint to be applied evenly, has long been dried away. It is both how good the "paint" really is, and how well it is treated after the true "drying" has been done that makes the real difference.

4. "Bras" and such are fine in short term use, meaning okay if you are planning on driving in "loose" areas, but once through that, or if you get rained on, get it off pronto and don't let things form between that bra and the paint, or let it bake for days to weeks in the Sun. Look at how people are screwing up their paint jobs with those magnetic "ribbons" they are using to show their feelings about "our troops" or "breast cancer", that cause problems of mold and such in even short time frames.

If companies want to get good profits, then they need to make good products, and NOT count on gimmicks and what sounds like "great warranty policies" which prove to be full of loopholes when the reality of what things really are comes forth.

Both glad and sad I came across this thread, as I really need to buy a car, but now I wonder if I wouldn't be better off just dropping some bucks, even big bucks back into what I already have.

UPDATE 10-28-05

I went back to the dealer with the black xb, and looked over the car very hard. No stains or dings, just some watermarks left after being out in the rain a few days. This would be the Black Sand color.

I then looked at an older xb that has been driven for over a year, 13k+ miles on it, washed in the machine car wash at the dealership a few times, never hand waxed, just "spray waxed" in the car wash. This would be the lighter Silver Metallic color, and not ONE chip could I find on that car, and not one scratch either, nor swirls.

I had to be shown the few chips and small dings in the polymer bumper and lower dam on the front end, and the touch up was done only with the bottled touch up Scion Paint. You had to look hard to find them, and no rust was coming up, no bubbles or other problems spreading out from those places. This xb has the blackened pillars that are done by both some form of wrap or other paint or coating, and in those I could find some fading and maybe some of the strange "rainbow" patterns forming on their surfaces, but that is typical of many cars that uses these types of blacking methods, and that bothers me on many cars I own now too. It may be a real advance to paint the posts with the body color, if the paint is good.

It may well be worth it, to take a paint chip sample from the cars that are having the many listed problems, and let a lab determine if the paint itself has a flaw. That is most likely the only true way to know what is going on. Contact a car magazine like C&D and see if they will do the tests to report on, or go to a local TV station and see if one of their "troubleshooters" will take this on as a project, as they may foot the bill for the tests as part of their doing "news".

Acsilva84

10-29-2005, 10:14 AM

i thought it was just me. i guess not.

amanda776

11-06-2005, 03:43 AM

holy long post!

boostedscion

11-17-2005, 05:30 AM

wow that is so odd

TheCor

11-17-2005, 03:30 PM

yesti

11-17-2005, 05:26 PM

if i were to purchase the 3M or rockblocker kit for my xA, where could i get it installed?
i wouldnt want to do it myself because i want make sure it doesnt bubble or anything, id want it done professionally i guess is what im trying to say?
local tint shop. install quality may vary, but it is like putting on tint. so the more experienced the better.

tcmann

12-18-2005, 09:00 AM

Its funny because i had an 01 ford focus brand new when i got it. when i sold it, it had minor bumper scratches anfter 3 years. when i got the tC, after two months it looked worse than the focus, AND I TREATED THE FOCUS LIKE DOG____!! Anywho, toyota make ____tyass paint for the cars. Conclusion: get it clearcoated as soon as you buy it.

there are some detail shops that actually add some type of clear coat on the car after washing it and before buffing it. looks amazing and its permanent. its kinda expensive though.

TomTom

12-26-2005, 01:23 PM

I was mulling over the problem of paint chips and a thought suddenly occured to me. In addition to road debris flying up, ever wonder if some of the damage could occur while the vehicle is parked? I'm thinking specifically of pebbles thrown up by a lawnmower or leaf blower being used nearby. One of these machines being used where there's some gravel on the ground could send particles flying at a good velocity, enough to damage the paint on a vehicle parked nearby, I'm sure.

This isn't to accuse you affected owners of being careless, since the culprit could be a neighbor or the landscape service used by your employer or a nearby business.

Just something to think about...

BirdFLU

12-27-2005, 04:54 PM

My XB has less than 3000 miles on it when it started chipping. I'm ____ed becasue I spent the extra $1000 for extra clearcoat and it's still chipping!! For all of you saying it's normal, I guess I just got lucky with my previous 7 year old Honda, 15 year old Honda, 18 year old Volvo... should I go on? My first ever brand new car and the paint looks worse after 8 months than 15 year old cars I've owned.

madeinchina

12-27-2005, 05:24 PM

I was just wondering, did you guys wax your cars as soon as you got them?

My uncle sold me my tc a year ago (one week wait and fresh off the port) and the one thing I remember him telling me is that I shouldn't wax the car for at least the first month because I might mess up the clearcoat because it hasn't been sitting on the lot for a while.. I listened to him for once and I have had no problems with the paint at all...

BirdFLU

12-27-2005, 09:48 PM

Nope, I did not wax it. I don't think it's case of owner misuse or regular wear and tear, I think Toyota just used very little paint and clear coat. I can see how extremely thin the paint and clear coat are in the places where it's chipped. It's paper thin, especially when I look at chips other cars in parking lots. This is my first Toyota and will be my last. I love my XB, but the paint thing makes me wonder about what the future holds in store for this car. I didn't have that concern with my Hondas.

yesti

12-28-2005, 01:06 AM

I'm ____ed becasue I spent the extra $1000 for extra clearcoat and it's still chipping!!

Well we finally hear the (unverified) truth on that dealer clearcoat stuff. So what IS the fix!?!???

basilisk4

01-04-2006, 03:28 PM

smash

01-04-2006, 09:11 PM

Uh, yeah, anyway.

I'm ____ed becasue I spent the extra $1000 for extra clearcoat and it's still chipping!!

Well we finally hear the (unverified) truth on that dealer clearcoat stuff. So what IS the fix!?!???

And the fix is... changing the problem paint colors on the 2006's!! i.e. SSM and IIP = gone on the 2006 tCs. Hello Classic Silver Mica and Nautical blue whatever..

Velheru

01-08-2006, 02:05 AM

I have only had my Xb for a week so far but I do a lot of driving (65 miles to work) I had it coated by Simoniz when I got it so if it gets any marks from the acid in bird poop, tree sap or rain, it will get repainted for free. As for rock chips....well i dont have any yet, but my '91 MR2 was covered in them and had real bad clear coat peeling. Then again, any vehicle i have seen from 87-93 have that problem. Not just Toyota. Ill be watching my Black Cherry Pearl to see how it holds up though.

yesti

01-08-2006, 05:18 AM

Don't waste your time trying to reason with these folks; they have convinced themselves that their paint is "defective" and are immune to reason...

paint isn't defective per se. just $hitty quality. doubt it is going to peel off before the factory warranty is up, but rock chips...STBY.

anyone know the long term effects of the clear bras? only thing that bothers me about them is dirt gets right on the edge of the sticker and it's hard to get out. ;P

Prock2305

01-21-2006, 08:02 PM

yea when i bought my car at the first of august it had some chips in the paint on the front bumper. The dealer said happened when hey shipped it from cali and the would fix it. I called in for a month straight and their service center kept dodging me, finally when i got thier manager on the phone in october he said " why didn't you call us earlier? Its to late now we don't even know if that scrath was there in the first place." what a dick!
Its winter now and if anyone has ever been in utah for the winter, we use a lot of salt on our roads to de-ice them. I wash my car at least once or twice every two weeks. Already I've noticed that my car is starting to get rust spots. They aren't very big but still, the clear coat on these cars is the worst I've seen in a long time. I used to be a manager of a detail shop for four years so I've seen alot of paint jobs in my day!

Prock2305

01-21-2006, 08:07 PM

clear bras are sweet. They are alot better then the leather bras cause leaves and water get under the leather kind and eventually will start to eat at your paint. as far as the effects of the the finish on clear bras will gradually start to dull without polishing or waxing them. You can also get a fine haired brush like a smaal horse hair brush and gently go along the sides of the clear bra to get out excess wax and debry

gobblez

04-13-2006, 03:14 PM

I agree, the paint on my 2005 Scion Xa seems cheaper than my other vehicle, a 2000 Nissan Sentra. My Scion Xa is not even a year old, and there are swirls all over the place. Kinda defeats the purpose of putting my chrome 18's back on. Very noticable on Black Sand Pearl. The front bumper looks horrible because the dead bugs seem to stain the paint or something. I put swirls in the back trying to get the dealership sticker off. I told them not to put that advertising junk on, they did anyways. In fact, I'm pretty ____ed at my buying experience. They sold me the upgraded warranty without ever mentioning the car already came with one. The next guy in the buying process (like 4 in total) was the one who indirectly mentioned it, not knowing I upgraded. They got me the wrong hub caps, I said 5 spoke not 6. They're the ones who asked me what kind of hub caps, so it's not like I was making a crazy demand. And they never mentioned it, just hoped I wouldn't notice. The shipping date was late, I get the feeling they made up the dates when i would call.

I'm not a paint expert, there just seems to be an obvious difference in quality between my xa and sentra. Both are cheap cars, but one shows more wear in one year than the other after 5 years. When inspecting the paint chips and swirls on my Xa, it seems way too thin, like I could probably mess it up by pushing on it hard with one finger tip. I'm still trying to decide if I should fix the swirls and chips now, or wait until I'm ready to sell or trade the car. Because I know they will come back. Two of my chips on the hood already started rusting. And the door handle well is scratched really bad just by bumping it with my fingers when opening the door. I don't wear rings and have short fingernails. I shouldn't have to open the door with my finger tips. The top of the car, the edge of the roof, also has nasty swirls, just by wind it seems. I don't live in the desert, so I don't know why it looks like i drove through a sand storm. I can post pics.

Johnold

04-17-2006, 02:04 AM

first of all HI!, i'm new here. and NO i don't own a scion tc but i'm looking into getting a super white one. and i'm sorry to hear that you guys are having paint problems. i was reading and thought to tell you guys that you should WAX your cars often to keep the paint harden. waxing your ride will leave the paint job much more stronger. and sorry to break the subject here but i'm wondering if you guys had any problems getting into a new scion tc at the dealership. was it hard? are they really strict with the "CREDIT" thing? i've got ok credit but i'm looking to trade in my 2002 honda civic Ex (also white) in for a 06 scion Tc. quickly, what are your thoughts?.

RMS

06-17-2006, 06:53 AM

Rockblocker protection the day you buy!!!

1xb2envy

07-18-2006, 04:05 AM

I have an 06 release series 3 first road trip huge ___ rock chip paint does suck

IceCold

08-04-2006, 12:28 AM

Ok here is my paint problem.

I don't have any rock chips or chips of paint coming off. What I have is cracks. Actual cracks in the paint, from who knows what or why? They're in the front bumper and are continuing to spider underneath my clear bra. IS Anyone else experiencing this problem?

aznpimp

08-04-2006, 01:50 AM

mine 2 .. the paint just sucks :bow:

brambling

08-04-2006, 02:33 AM

I guess this is what we get for Toyota insisting on environment-friendly water based paint.

Anyway I had to go under a tree to get out of my driveway the other day, and a branch scraped across the roof. Sounded like nails on blackboard, eww! But when I checked for scratches there weren't any! Yay for Toyota paint.

In my area there is always road construction so it's really not the cars fault. My Echo had lots of chips in the hood, but what do you expect from rocks smacking against it? Some of them made dents. The clearcoat never separated from the paint like my Mom's old Altima.

azncaprica

10-02-2006, 04:46 AM

Yeah, overall I guess the Scion paint job and body are both very sensitive to the touch, seeing that every time I go to my car, I see a new scratch appear and more paint chipped off. Makes me real sad. =( Anything to help it or prevent it?

DonnyDarko

10-02-2006, 05:51 AM

Lets all make Toyota/scion buy us new paint jobs... :lalala: just a thot...lol mines cracking/scratching some too...ive had it for..4 months? if that. O well ill prolly paint it in the future neways.

Supercharge_returns

10-13-2006, 02:46 AM

Yea mines is already chipped too...but f**k it ill live with it its a toyota it will last!!!lol

FallenAngel

10-29-2006, 07:01 PM

Yeah... comming from the auto body/paint field, (I did this for 5 years before my knee decided it wasn't going to let me do it anymore)... I am disappointed with the quality of the paint. My 11 year old Sunfire GT didn't have nearly the rock chips my tC does, and I just got it in May. Had I known this before, I would have gotten the paint protection warranty thing.

Still love the car though!!!

beas_tc_oupe06

10-31-2006, 04:39 AM

Well, first off I want to comment on a few of the haters saying that it is end user error if our paint is how it is.

For example, my 2003 Grand Am Gt, washed weekly, waxed monthly. Aquired two rock chips over its 46 some thousand miles, no scratches what so ever. Only problem was clear coat fade on the C-pillar which was actually a problem from a body shop that had to repaint my rear DS quarter panel from parking lot damage.

On to the 06 tC. 17k miles. Washed weekly, waxed monthly
(and with better materials, i.e. wash mitt rather than sponge on the GA, meguirs wash, turtle wax, microfiber applicators rather than cotton used on GA) and right now the paint honestly looks liek the car is 6 or 7 years old and has sat outside all the time. Swirls. Scratches. Chips... AND the paint has faded some, not horribly but it IS noticable that the paint has faded, and I HAVE done the preventative maintnence to protect the paint.

Some of the chips I can account for, some though... are in odd places. I have one or two on each REAR fender, above the crease (or lip if you will ) of the fender, odd place dont ya say? Many many chips on the hood, only one of which (a bigger one) that I can account for.

The chips arent the issue to me, its the fact that the clear coat must be gone, as even with a wax the car doesnt really shine (well ... it does, but not as much as it did when it was brand new) and the swirls and marks are rediculous and this car has NEVER been through an automatic wash.

Hell the Grand Am went through quite a few and I never had an issue. Something clearly is wrong.

Im going to wax it again (after all winters coming, I cant even imagine what the salt will do to the paint) and take it in and see if I can get something done, my dealership is huge on customer service.

I do love the car, the GA was a mechanical wreck (read: 26 service reports in 36k miles) but the paint was great... this car is awesome mechanically ... but the paint makes me want to cry every time I look at it. Ill try to get some pics up after I clean it.

11thhour

04-06-2007, 04:12 AM

WOLFGRRL

08-10-2007, 07:36 PM

If anyone is still reading this thread -

I am taking my paint case to arbitration with Scion - and I would appreciate any and all people on here that will,k to send my photos of your chips, scratches, flake-offs so I can present them to the arbitration company for review. I had the paint on my front bumper simply FLAKE off and have numerous chips and scratches (from just my fingernails!)

I will fight this all the way - they offered to split the repair difference with me, but that is unacceptable. I shouldn't have to pay a penny.

FYI all: I opened a case with Scion Corporate customer service last week. A representative called me this morning and said because the manager at my dealership was being so unresponsive to my issue, that she went ahead and forwarded the problem to a district manager, who will be calling me within the next 2 weeks. He wants to set up an appointment to have the damage on the front of the car assessed.

I told them I realized that the problem could very well just be caused by rock chips, etc, but that after owning 4 other cars and reading about others' trouble with the Scion paint on online forums that I had come to the conclusion that this problem is not normal. It is not normal for a car's paint to chip so badly/so much after 2 months of driving. I will keep you all updated as to the status of my paint- hopefully Scion will realize that there is a problem with the paint on this car. I'd suggest calling Scion Customer Experience at 1.866.707.2466. My case number is 200410081043.

They can also be written at:
Scion Customer Experience
19001 S. Western Ave. WC12
Torrance, CA 90501

ChelsDS

09-06-2007, 07:45 PM

Do newer Scions still have this crappy paint problem or could it have been that run of cars or the year(s)?

bigwillystyle23

10-26-2007, 03:02 AM

the paint on my 07 TC is pretty weak. the paint on the rims is even weaker. i have the 18 inch optional wheels and theyre starting to peel. =(

kontayjus

10-26-2007, 10:11 PM

Anyone know if the xB2 have the cheap paint? I'm assuming yes, but I have no idea, lol.

ChelsDS

10-27-2007, 02:33 AM

Anyone know if the xB2 have the cheap paint? I'm assuming yes, but I have no idea, lol.

Seeing as my xD has tiny chips from road rocks, then the xB-2 must have cheap paint as well. All the Scions seem to have cheap paint no matter what year :(

Crazyhorse6901

10-23-2009, 10:03 PM

FYI all: I opened a case with Scion Corporate customer service last week. A representative called me this morning and said because the manager at my dealership was being so unresponsive to my issue, that she went ahead and forwarded the problem to a district manager, who will be calling me within the next 2 weeks. He wants to set up an appointment to have the damage on the front of the car assessed.

I told them I realized that the problem could very well just be caused by rock chips, etc, but that after owning 4 other cars and reading about others' trouble with the Scion paint on online forums that I had come to the conclusion that this problem is not normal. It is not normal for a car's paint to chip so badly/so much after 2 months of driving. I will keep you all updated as to the status of my paint- hopefully Scion will realize that there is a problem with the paint on this car. I'd suggest calling Scion Customer Experience at 1.866.707.2466. My case number is 200410081043.

They can also be written at:
Scion Customer Experience
19001 S. Western Ave. WC12
Torrance, CA 90501

SCION THE PAINT IS DEFECTIVE:flame:

Me and my wife bought our 2010 Scion Black Sand Pearl XD on 9-11-09 at Pearson Toyota/Scion in Newport News, VA. The car had alot of scratches when we took ownership, for a NEW CAR it should have gleamed since it only had only "33 Miles" on it, we asked them to write the defects down however the salesman refused to do the proper documentation, he stated he would fix the defects when the accessories were installed.

When we purchased the vehicle we added almost $2,500 in accessories,on 9-21-09 when we took the car in to have the accessories installed I then purchased a paint sealent for $256.00, I then reminded them about the scratches, they finally took notes, when we picked the car up the scratches were still visibly there, when I asked why the defects were not repaired the tech stated he couldn't see them; The tech then used a compound to remove the scratches and the paint sealant too:no: I was better off taking a lighter to my hard earned green backs, what the tech did was unacceptable and you can see the marring in the clear coat.:flame:

On 10-23-09 we took the car in due to the paint peeling on the hood and they blamed everything they could possibly think of instead of taking ownership for a defective paint job, the car only has 756 miles on it and without asking us what direction we wanted to take they proceeded to use touch up paint, WTF??? What is this dealership thinking of, how unprofessional of them and rude speaking to me and my wife as if we were children.

Stay away from PEARSON TOYOTA/SCION - NN,VA.

F.Y.I - Never take ownership of a vehicle from this dealership under their carport as you cannot see damages!!!

When we got home I called Scion and made a few complaints, the number is 1-866-707-2466 and my case NO# 0910137251.

Here are a few of my complaints....

1. The damage the car had when purchased.
2. Being forced to use the two free oil changes, every three months; The book clearly states 5K or 6 months.WTF???
3. The paint sealant was ____ up when they didn't fix the scratches prior to the paint sealant application, In my opinion I paid for nothing...
4. The paint is DEFECTIVE...I shouldn't have to pay to have it fixed, even to have clear coat added for stability, we haven't owned this car for two months.Boo Boo - The Quality SUCKS !!!