Ok, I went out of my way to join this site because many of us at the E90Post.com and M3Post.com have questions.

I am upfront, not trying to start a war; I am being sincere. Lately myself and others have had posts about tC owners trying our Twin Turbo 335i’s on for size in various parts of the country. Now normally, the only things messing with us are Z350 owners, G Infinitys, stuff like that. None of us is stupid enough to go after GT3s, Vettes, etc. We know our place. There are of course idiots who think BMW’s can beat anything on rubber. I’m not one.

Now, one guys theory is that the tC owners are just seeing how fast a 335i is. I differ with this because I think then, that everything from New Beetles to Honda Accords would be doing it, and they don’t.

My theory is this. That these particular tC owners have read somewhere the specs on an automatic, non-sport 325i and have gotten it into their heads that every 3 series they see is a 325i, and possibly are not aware of other 3 Series Beemers. I have always felt Scion owners were more college level kids just out to have fun in an economical car that handles well, and probably aren’t into cars to much; That is, knowing models and specs at a glance. Scion owners as a group seem to be out for other things than performance, or they’d have bought V6 Accords, used Maxima’s, used Z’s, etc.

I can see possibly not knowing the 335i, there are a lot of de-badged 335i’s running around, mine is one. But the stance, body and exhaust are dead give away’s something is going on. So I really don’t get it. The other thing, is there are a lot of ProCeed equipped (Vishnu) 335i’s running around, unannounced by stickers or other markers. It’s not a secret.

Someone have any ideas?

Established test specs are 4.7 - 4.8 seconds 0-60 for the Steptronic sedan, 13.1 sec in the quarter, stock. 22mpg average, 26-28 normal highway.

Adding the ProCeed is a whole other spec sheet.

 

There are tc's out there that will give your 13 second car a run for your money. Granted most tc's you come across aren't capable of running with you 3 series guys. But there are a few out there with deep pockets who take pride in killing beemers, sti's, g35's, 350z's etc...

Gives us guys who arent boosted yet something to look up to.

 

There are many tC owners out there (a lot not on this site, probably) that are just douchebags like that. They come from the Honda world and want to "race" anything with wheels. It's a "tuner" type of car... so we get a lot of them.

I know I don't speak for all of us, but many of us here are smarter than that.

That said... there are some pretty sick turbo'd tCs out there. So some of them could maybe hang a little... but I saw one of the new 335s at one of our local Autocross events and it was just ridiculous... I don't know why a tC would even try if they didn't have some boost. Unless it's one of those douchebags trying to "race" someone that doesn't know or doesn't care...

 

I don't know why tC owners does that, but I am seriously not suprised. If you look at the age and history of most tC owners out there, most of them are at the stage when they are out there thinking they are invincible.

However, you might not find much of those guys here. Lots of people I see here are a lot more civilized and has lots of respect and understanding for cars.

 

Thats becuase 13's isnt the fastest 1/4 mile time, and most tC's that just " bolt on " a turbo kit are able to hit 13's. That being said, anyone with more than a bolt on kit would deffinatly feel they could give you a run for your money, if not win hands down. But then again there are aot of idiots that just want to race everything.

 

I would say its because every car owner group has its morons.
whocares is right, a FEW tCs can hang with, or beat a 335i, BUT I would imagine that 99.9% of tCs cannot.
The odds of one of the people on the BMW boards running into one of the few tCs running in the 12s is EXTREMELY rare.
So to the BMW crowd, please dont look at the tC crowd as being all morons, but yes because of the price of the tC, there are those people out there who think they drive a sports car. Anyone, that knows anything about BMWs, know that unless they are in the 300 hp range in their tC, they will not hold with a 335i.
And please dispell the rumor that because we have a cheaper car than a BMW, that we do not know about other cars specs. Thats just dumb logic. Just because someone has money and can afford a BMW doesnt mean they know anything more about cars than someone that cannot afford a new BMW. (or take afford out, and put someone who doesnt want a BMW)

 

Dumbass/_______s are not bounded by the brand or type of car u drive


Anyways, I heard there were many issues with the 335i's? Someone even having the car break down on the ride home of the lot?

 

I think this is the most likely answer.

On the other replies, I'm sure there are some nut ***** out there that have invested mass money, just to get to 300hp, but then you have the insane technology put into the direct injection of the 335i's, the most insane tranny I have ever owned, add computers and double Vanos and you have probably $25k and up to get a tC even competitve. It's more than horsepower, its how its put down and managed.
I never understood guys would throw that kind of cash into an econo car when they can buy a gorgeous used Porsche or even a used Lotus... Makes NO sense.

I'll let you know right now, put $32k down on that new 135i coming out ina few months, and add a $1,300 ProCeed... have have one monster freakin' machine in the 4.4 sec range with no other mods for a nice cash outlay. They will lease out in the $299 range, same motor, same trans as the 335i. I'm getting one! I was going the route of the M3, but plunking down nearly $70k for a 3 Series is a little steep. I still may do it, but doubtful. I'd rather pocket the $30k and buy a boat load of exotic strippers for a month!

 

Naw, there were a bunch of Pre- 07' Sedans that they f*cked up on and didn't put the trans cooler on, thinking sedan owners wouldn't drive them as hard, or tack them. They have since installed them and have others on recall to put them on for those who haven't done so.

Fuel pumps: Putting down 3,000psi, some component issues through Siemans, whom they have fired and got new ones manufactured by another company. I had both issues, both handled nicely, little pain. Loaner X3 for a week, that's it. That's what's nice about German cars, they give you nice loaners. Espresso machines in the waiting room with Plasmas and PC with internet.

Other than that, at 19,000 miles, not one single squeak, rattle or breakage. The maintenance is totally free. One set of brake pads all the way around at about $500, FREE. $300 synthetic oil change, FREE. Love it. Even the Xenon bulbs and the wiper blades are covered... $3,500 down, $469 a month for 24 months on a 335i Sport Step. Gotta love it.

 

For some people owning a car is more than taking some money and throwing it at an already fast vehicle. Its about individuality.
I owned an M3 before my tC. I was in the market for an EVO. had the paperwork signed. Yes it is faster than my tC and handles a ton better, but if I bought an EVO it would have been just like any other EVO out there. So I bought a much cheaper car and put the money into it that the EVO would have cost me. I have had the oppurtunity to do all the work on my car and enjoy it. Its a hobby, Not a car payment just to get me to and from work.
Now I drive a car that I will never see on the street. Individuality.
I could easily have bought an EVO, or a 335i or a 350Z, but buying would have been all I could afford, I dont like walking out to a parking lot and having to take a double look to see which car is mine. I dont have that issue with my tC.

And I know I can go to a car show and hands down win over the judge compared to the stock 335i sitting next to me. I can go to the autocross track (which I do) and have just as much FUN as the 335i staged next to me, and I can cruise down the street and get double the stares than the 335i at the light next to me. (because not that many people even know what a 335i has done to it compared to the thousands of 3 series running around).

And I can still afford to stop at wendys on the way home.
Not in any way knocking the bmws and all. The wifes next car will be either a 335i or an IS350. Just giving the other side of it.

 

actually it only takes a turbo kit to get to 300hp, about 4000 dollars. still cheaper than the 335i.

now im not sure what the 335 costs, but heres the low down:

TC brand new ~17k
Turbo kit, with supporting mods(enough for 350whp)[b]5k[/]
other exterior mods to make it look good 2k
suspension 1.5k
ICE (resonable system) 2k

A whopping grand total of 27.5k

So for ~28k you get a car that looks good, is fast, and sounds good

 

or you could do like me and get the car salvaged, like any other car i get and only pay about 8k for the car, which saves me about 9k with which I can do the mods listed, so for ~19 I can have a car that is faster, sounds better, and looks reasonably good.

 

[quote="I never understood guys would throw that kind of cash into an econo car when they can buy a gorgeous used Porsche or even a used Lotus... Makes NO sense. [/quote]


The reason for throwing money in a tC and not getting a used porsche or lotus....its because it USED. Why would I want a rich person trash car...I rather have new car that looks and runs fine. Beside have seen the repair bills on Porsche,M-benz, BMW after 50k in mies or even lexus....its out of this world. toyota prices arent cheap either, but I'm not going to get Fu@ked in A@s, just say I have luxury car...you keep your luxury car because I can tune my car and make twice as hot for less money.

 

Honestly, most of the bimmer guys in my area are older douche bags who most likely are compensating. Now that isn't a statement on all bmw owners, just seems like the ones in my area. Truth be told, I cant explain the trend of the tC drivers trying to race, but I can't explain the older bmw driver zipping through red lights around here and almost hitting people in cross walks. My favorite guys are the ones with the fake m3 logos on cars that are clearly not m3. (rice and idiots in every car group)

I live in a very affluent area, make a good living, but bought a Scion because I thought it was different.

Yes, people could buy a used porsche, bmw, or whatever. But that is not their style or what they are trying o say about themselves.

 

I bought a tC because, like others, I can make it what I want. There are no others out there just like mine, and that makes it something special to me, and a matter of pride.

Also, I'm not willing to lease a car, which is what I'm assuming a down payment of $3500 and 24 payments of $469 gets you (total of $14,756 does not buy a new 335). The lack of return and the mileage cap does not suit my situation.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for the 335, but the same goes for the tC.

 

interesting...i started frequenting the e90 forums lately because ive been looking at the 335i...honestly the tC is a fun car to have...its good looking...relatively inexpensive to mod...and fairly reliable...

as for racing...so what...i dont care about getting creamed by a guy in a ferrari...or whatever...its just for fun...

but anyway once i get my ED sorted out ill be posting from the e90 side...lol

 

you ask not to get flamed but you make this kind of statement on forum full of people that "throw that kind of cash into econo cars." Makes NO sense...

maybe you should stop and think for a bit..if we're throwing this kind of money into making our cars faster instead of buying a nicer car, what would happen if we did buy that nicer car? hmm.. my guess is we'd still throw money into it to make it even faster. and yet still, there will be some other douche with a nicer car that looks down on us and say "man why would they put that much money into that car when they could've gotten a nicer car!" and so on so forth..the cycle continues. so why do we throw so much money into making our car faster?

because we can and because we enjoy doing it.

 

Welp, there's a 530i sitting in my garage, and I got to say, my tC is still much more fun to drive. Steering response is comfortable in the 5, but it's not fun and responsive like the tC. It weighs more, the sound system is butt compared to my tC's old stock system, and the interface for music/navigation/etc. is painfully obtrusive to paying attention to the road. It's fairly quick, but my tC will be past that some day. The only reason I love it, is because it's RWD.

 

time for me to weigh in. yes, there are lots of very nice high end german vehicles out there. my dad owns one. he has an 03 porsche cayenne s. and it is pretty awesome when it isn't at the dealership for repairs.

turn signal went out, so they had to replace the ENTIRE HEADLIGHT HOUSING because the contact points on the bump bend the connectors in the turn signal socket.

he goes over a bump, and it thinks the rear window is has come open and he has to pull over and open and close it to get it to shut up.

at 24 thousand miles, it would take 30 seconds after selecting reverse, for the vehicle to actually start backing up. new transmission covered under warranty.

he has had so many problems with it they have extended his warranty to 8 years/100k miles

and now that his dashboard has started warping a whooping 4 years later, he is currently talking to porsche about buying it back from him because this thing is by far not living up the the expectations one would have of a $70k dollar german luxury SUV.

now, why buy a tc instead of a bmw 1 or 3 series? well, the obvious reason is the msrp is nearly double that of the tc. two, is the insurance rates for young drivers on a luxury performance sports car is straight up ridiculous since the tc is usually classified at a sub compact. both cars get about 30 mpg, but the tc does it on 87 octane.

tc might have better ergonomics since it is a hatchback. i use mine for delivering catering and moving to college.

the tc has alot of style yet still alot of room for personal touches.

they use alot of simple, easy to fix/repair/replace components that are yester-tech of toyota. everything is pretty much tested and proven and refined before it was put on our cars.

what is the labor rate per hour at a bmw dealership or any place you would trust to work on your bmw? probably a lot!

maybe out in socal, you have nice bmw dealerships, i took my dad's porsche in for work, at tischer bmw/porsche/audi, all it had was an old coffee machine, a 20 cathode tv on broadcast, beat up vending machine with no selection left, and cheap torn chairs.

i go to fitzgerald toyota service, it has nice 42 in plasma screen tv's, nice new vending machines next to a coffee/espresso/hot cocoa machine. computers with high speed internet access and loaner car program. sure i usually get a toyota corolla, but they are usually done with it in a day anyway.

my restaurant also caters several dealerships in our area, one is the service garage at a bmw dealership, the other is a honda service garage dealership.

i go there, all the hondas are just getting oil changes, tire rotations and other routine maitenance.

i go to the bmw service, they have all their lifts filled with bmw's in pieces being rewired, reassembled, transmissions, differentials on the floor next to them, interior panals and ish removed to get to stuff. and a few of them are getting oil changes.

btw, wtf is up with bmw not having a freaking oil dipstick anymore? if you want to check your oil, you have to let the computer tell you, if the computer is working right, or you have to drain the oil and take a look.

oh, and the dealership tried to charge my dad $210 dollars for an oil change on his porsche. that is their standard charge.

i get mine changed for like 50 because i get synthetic.

now, with my 16K car, i can put suspension, lsd, clutch, flywheel, brakes, tires, turbo, tune and have a car with 250 wheel horsepower that can take the twisties and burn up the interstate, but is easy on the insurance bill, and has classic tasteful stlyling.

now, i know the tc will never be at the level of the bmw. riding along with my bro in his new cls 550 was enough to make me realize that my tc will never reach that level of performance and handling and refinement because of the limitations of the chassis and the front wheel drive platform, but i'm still happy with the tc, and i'm happy that with the modifictaions i have put into mine, there are very few others out there that have my personal touch to it.

also, we have a saying around maryland

Q:whats the difference between porcupines and bmws?

A:bmw's have ****** on the inside

now i know that isn't true of all bmw owners out there, but many of them around here act like they rule the road by just driving like @$$holes cutting people off and changing lanes without signaling, riding peoples @$$#@.

that in a nutshell is why alot of people like myself might prefer a tc over a bmw 3 series. not intending to offend anybody or anything, but that is all the points i can come up right now.

 

glad to see that a fellow marylander sees how bad bmw owners in this state are.