Who wants springs other than TRD or Randode's?
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Who wants springs other than TRD or Randode's?
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All the info that I have is there. I went to a local "rice" shop and asked about springs. The guy said they never had a problem with the brand sagging much. *shrugs*
I'm still (personally) waiting for the Hotchkis TVS kit. Just me.
Hell, give Sprint a call and see what they say. It couldn't hurt.
I'm still (personally) waiting for the Hotchkis TVS kit. Just me.
Hell, give Sprint a call and see what they say. It couldn't hurt.
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Originally Posted by uberspeed
Originally Posted by RMS
He said he didn't know! 
Dr. Evil: Riiiight, so I'm still waiting for Tein S.Techs...
Originally Posted by uberspeed
Originally Posted by RMS
He said he didn't know!
Dr. Evil: Riiiight, so I'm still waiting for Tein S.Techs...
HURRY THE HELL UP TEIN!!! I dont want to even buy wheels until I lower it first!
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Originally Posted by uberspeed
I may follow up, though I'm really waiting for Tein S.Techs.
Hotchkis TVS looked good on paper, but I can't figure out for the life of me why they would do a larger front sway bar.
Hotchkis TVS looked good on paper, but I can't figure out for the life of me why they would do a larger front sway bar.
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To "balance" a FWD vehicle you do a larger rear swaybar. By doing a larger front swaybar on a FWD you increase the vehicles tendency to "push" its' front wheels when going too hot into a corner. Why do that??
I just came from a VW with quite a bit of suspension bits to make it work just right, recipe was always larger RSB, neutralizes the handling. Take a look over at vwvortex and you'll see companies offering larger RSB such as Neuspeed and Autotech, it's for a reason.
I just came from a VW with quite a bit of suspension bits to make it work just right, recipe was always larger RSB, neutralizes the handling. Take a look over at vwvortex and you'll see companies offering larger RSB such as Neuspeed and Autotech, it's for a reason.
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Originally Posted by uberspeed
To "balance" a FWD vehicle you do a larger rear swaybar. By doing a larger front swaybar on a FWD you increase the vehicles tendency to "push" its' front wheels when going too hot into a corner. Why do that??
I just came from a VW with quite a bit of suspension bits to make it work just right, recipe was always larger RSB, neutralizes the handling. Take a look over at vwvortex and you'll see companies offering larger RSB such as Neuspeed and Autotech, it's for a reason.
I just came from a VW with quite a bit of suspension bits to make it work just right, recipe was always larger RSB, neutralizes the handling. Take a look over at vwvortex and you'll see companies offering larger RSB such as Neuspeed and Autotech, it's for a reason.
Only suspension I've ever messed with is hydraulics and air! There goes my credibility!
I'm no engineer (yet) but maybe due to the size?
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And I know NADA on hydraulics and air! :-P
I've done some autocross and road racing, SOLO I, my cousin had his own shop for decades and he specialized on Porsche's. I just got rid of my VW 1.8t that was a sleeper on the outside except for lightweight rims and obviously lowered stance.
From all my research the companies do it on production cars like that because people are used to it and when your front wheels start to "push" on a FWD car most all folks back off real quick!
I was able to drift my Jetta, for example, only after I installed the larger RSB. Stock I couldn't get that thing sideways unless I did some absolutely nutty maneuver and just broke the traction of the tires moreso than a controlled slide from actually driving the thing that way. After the larger RSB it balanced the car making it almost feel like an AWD and I could do controlled slides and hang onto onramps and offramps and just stick. No ebrake here! lol The tail of the car would swing around now, instead of my front end just pushing. I'm not sure of all the dynamics, statics or other engineering forces at work, I just know it did and I was grateful.
I've done some autocross and road racing, SOLO I, my cousin had his own shop for decades and he specialized on Porsche's. I just got rid of my VW 1.8t that was a sleeper on the outside except for lightweight rims and obviously lowered stance.
From all my research the companies do it on production cars like that because people are used to it and when your front wheels start to "push" on a FWD car most all folks back off real quick!
I was able to drift my Jetta, for example, only after I installed the larger RSB. Stock I couldn't get that thing sideways unless I did some absolutely nutty maneuver and just broke the traction of the tires moreso than a controlled slide from actually driving the thing that way. After the larger RSB it balanced the car making it almost feel like an AWD and I could do controlled slides and hang onto onramps and offramps and just stick. No ebrake here! lol The tail of the car would swing around now, instead of my front end just pushing. I'm not sure of all the dynamics, statics or other engineering forces at work, I just know it did and I was grateful.
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http://www.autotech.com/prod_susp_swybars.htm
How Swaybars Work
The suspension design of front wheel drive Volkswagens causes the car to lift its inside rear wheel and roll heavily to one side when cornering hard. Although this cannot be completely eliminated in a practical manner, the method toward a solution to this problem is to increase the roll stiffness of the chassis by installing performance swaybars. A swaybar, really in effect an anti-swaybar or anti-roll bar, minimizes body lean by stiffening the car's chassis against the longitudinal force known as body roll.
Volkswagen addresses this problem by installing swaybars on all upgraded versions of their vehicles. Starting in 1983, all GTI's, GLI's, 16V's, and Special Edition cars came from the factory with original equipment (O.E.) swaybars already installed. Later, nearly all U.S. model VW's have come so equipped. Autotech takes this concept one step further. We provide swaybar upgrades for those vehicles not originally equipped with them. We also provide larger diameter swaybars for those cars already fitted by VW.
The function of a good swaybar system is to create a careful balance between precise handling and comfort while maintaining stability and control. The swaybars manufactured by Autotech offer several advantages. The body lean is significantly reduced, minimizing camber changes. The plowing (excessive understeer) associated with hard cornering in a front wheel drive car is gone. A ratio of front-to-rear roll stiffness is selected to make the whole chassis work together. That's a new feeling for the average water-cooled VW owner.
The design of our rear anti-roll bar minimizes rear toe change, which increases stability and enhances drivability by utilizing a mounting system unique to Autotech. The front bar is designed much like the factory's. Those for early vehicles have a lower droop in the middle to allow additional clearance for performance exhaust systems.
All of Autotech's swaybars include high quality polyurethane bushings that aid in quick and precise response. The bars are precision bent from high-grade spring steel on computerized bending machines for long-lived stability and a perfect fit every time. The swaybars are finished in an electrostatic powdercoat for durability and good looks.
Autotech's front swaybar design incorporates all polyurethane bushings and special exhaust clearance as mentioned earlier. There is no struggling with bushings and bar alignment for proper fitment. No longer do you fight yourself and your car in the driveway. Our kits come complete with installation instructions and require only basic hand tools for a smooth and easy job.
Trick Stuff
The trick stuff is found at the rear of the car. Autotech's rear swaybar design utilizes sliding ends to allow it to work without fighting the rear torsion beam in spite of the differences in their pivot points.
As the rear torsion beam is twisted, as it would be in a turn, it pivots at a given centerline. Because it is impossible to mount the swaybar on the same centerline, all swaybars must have a different centerline than the rear torsion beam. (This includes O.E. factory installed swaybars as well.) When the body is level, it makes no difference that the ends of the swaybar are bolted fast to the ends of the torsion beam, as seen in other manufacturers designs. When the torsion beam and the swaybar are twisted, however, the difference in pivot points causes the swaybar to push or pull (depending on whether the wheel deflection is up or down) the end of the torsion beam out of alignment.
Autotech found that by eliminating the rigid mount at the rear swaybar ends, we could eliminate undesirable geometry changes caused by swaybar binding. This not only sounds good in theory, it works in practice. This special design makes Autotech rear swaybars, and of course the factory rear swaybars, unique. If your present rear swaybar does not function like this, it's not providing you with the proper suspension geometry so crucially important to sport and performance driving. Consider changing to the State-of-the-Art. Change to Autotech.
How Swaybars Work
The suspension design of front wheel drive Volkswagens causes the car to lift its inside rear wheel and roll heavily to one side when cornering hard. Although this cannot be completely eliminated in a practical manner, the method toward a solution to this problem is to increase the roll stiffness of the chassis by installing performance swaybars. A swaybar, really in effect an anti-swaybar or anti-roll bar, minimizes body lean by stiffening the car's chassis against the longitudinal force known as body roll.
Volkswagen addresses this problem by installing swaybars on all upgraded versions of their vehicles. Starting in 1983, all GTI's, GLI's, 16V's, and Special Edition cars came from the factory with original equipment (O.E.) swaybars already installed. Later, nearly all U.S. model VW's have come so equipped. Autotech takes this concept one step further. We provide swaybar upgrades for those vehicles not originally equipped with them. We also provide larger diameter swaybars for those cars already fitted by VW.
The function of a good swaybar system is to create a careful balance between precise handling and comfort while maintaining stability and control. The swaybars manufactured by Autotech offer several advantages. The body lean is significantly reduced, minimizing camber changes. The plowing (excessive understeer) associated with hard cornering in a front wheel drive car is gone. A ratio of front-to-rear roll stiffness is selected to make the whole chassis work together. That's a new feeling for the average water-cooled VW owner.
The design of our rear anti-roll bar minimizes rear toe change, which increases stability and enhances drivability by utilizing a mounting system unique to Autotech. The front bar is designed much like the factory's. Those for early vehicles have a lower droop in the middle to allow additional clearance for performance exhaust systems.
All of Autotech's swaybars include high quality polyurethane bushings that aid in quick and precise response. The bars are precision bent from high-grade spring steel on computerized bending machines for long-lived stability and a perfect fit every time. The swaybars are finished in an electrostatic powdercoat for durability and good looks.
Autotech's front swaybar design incorporates all polyurethane bushings and special exhaust clearance as mentioned earlier. There is no struggling with bushings and bar alignment for proper fitment. No longer do you fight yourself and your car in the driveway. Our kits come complete with installation instructions and require only basic hand tools for a smooth and easy job.
Trick Stuff
The trick stuff is found at the rear of the car. Autotech's rear swaybar design utilizes sliding ends to allow it to work without fighting the rear torsion beam in spite of the differences in their pivot points.
As the rear torsion beam is twisted, as it would be in a turn, it pivots at a given centerline. Because it is impossible to mount the swaybar on the same centerline, all swaybars must have a different centerline than the rear torsion beam. (This includes O.E. factory installed swaybars as well.) When the body is level, it makes no difference that the ends of the swaybar are bolted fast to the ends of the torsion beam, as seen in other manufacturers designs. When the torsion beam and the swaybar are twisted, however, the difference in pivot points causes the swaybar to push or pull (depending on whether the wheel deflection is up or down) the end of the torsion beam out of alignment.
Autotech found that by eliminating the rigid mount at the rear swaybar ends, we could eliminate undesirable geometry changes caused by swaybar binding. This not only sounds good in theory, it works in practice. This special design makes Autotech rear swaybars, and of course the factory rear swaybars, unique. If your present rear swaybar does not function like this, it's not providing you with the proper suspension geometry so crucially important to sport and performance driving. Consider changing to the State-of-the-Art. Change to Autotech.
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Utah Scions
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Posts: 4,139
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I'm a huge fan of sleepers. I always wanted to build a '57 bug sleeper. But good luck finding an oval.
I know what sway bars do and what not, but it doesn't explain why it needs to be larger in the rear. It does to an extent, but the above states, "The suspension design of front wheel drive Volkswagens..." I know the Scions use the same Mac-style strut, which I'm not 100% if it's a mac strut or not, but it is a strut none the less.
I'm not sure. Maybe I should just scoop up the Hotchkis springs and wait to see what other people are doing for swaybars.
Too much info!!!
I know what sway bars do and what not, but it doesn't explain why it needs to be larger in the rear. It does to an extent, but the above states, "The suspension design of front wheel drive Volkswagens..." I know the Scions use the same Mac-style strut, which I'm not 100% if it's a mac strut or not, but it is a strut none the less.
I'm not sure. Maybe I should just scoop up the Hotchkis springs and wait to see what other people are doing for swaybars.
Too much info!!!