longer rails for driver's seat - pushbutton transmission
08-27-2007, 06:59 PM
#1
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longer rails for driver's seat - pushbutton transmission
I’ve read a lot about this on other posts, mostly on the first gen section, but haven’t read anything that specifically answers my questions.
My real problem on the automatic xB2 is that the center console shift area leaves no lateral movement for my right knee, the kind of room one would get with a shift on the column with bench seats. After much thought, and after giving up on trying to figure out a relatively inexpensive way to get considerably more room out of the console area, I am convinced that the best solution for me would be to get longer rails and swap them for the existing rails to extend the driver seat back; although I’d prefer more room for my knee, the next best thing would be to straighten my knee out which would avoid the problem of having it rest/press against the console. It will be a long reach to the steering wheel which may not be optimal, but a choice I could live with. I would rather not drill holes and move the entire seat back, and I don’t think raising the seat with washers will help, as has previously been discussed in other forums.
My question is, do longer rails or brackets exist, or does anyone know someone who could fabricate these? It’s also my understanding that this would be way better/safer than trying to add on to or extend the existing rails.
Ancillary to that, someone posted that getting longer seat rails and having them overhang the existing mounting points (in the back) would not be safe, as “the rail would be put under extreme loads during an accident and would likely fail.” I’m looking for second opinions on that, keeping in mind that 1. I believe that most of the weight of the seat would still be distributed to the front part of the rails, and 2. I would ideally be looking for railing that is heavier and stronger than the existing railing.
My real problem on the automatic xB2 is that the center console shift area leaves no lateral movement for my right knee, the kind of room one would get with a shift on the column with bench seats. After much thought, and after giving up on trying to figure out a relatively inexpensive way to get considerably more room out of the console area, I am convinced that the best solution for me would be to get longer rails and swap them for the existing rails to extend the driver seat back; although I’d prefer more room for my knee, the next best thing would be to straighten my knee out which would avoid the problem of having it rest/press against the console. It will be a long reach to the steering wheel which may not be optimal, but a choice I could live with. I would rather not drill holes and move the entire seat back, and I don’t think raising the seat with washers will help, as has previously been discussed in other forums.
My question is, do longer rails or brackets exist, or does anyone know someone who could fabricate these? It’s also my understanding that this would be way better/safer than trying to add on to or extend the existing rails.
Ancillary to that, someone posted that getting longer seat rails and having them overhang the existing mounting points (in the back) would not be safe, as “the rail would be put under extreme loads during an accident and would likely fail.” I’m looking for second opinions on that, keeping in mind that 1. I believe that most of the weight of the seat would still be distributed to the front part of the rails, and 2. I would ideally be looking for railing that is heavier and stronger than the existing railing.
08-28-2007, 10:58 PM
#2
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Maybe solution!
Try a cushioned stickon pad. They are sold in a lot of stores and your knee could rest on it comfortably. Any change not approved by Scion or Toyota would be a safety concern and would void any insurance claims if found not to mention death or dismemberment if airbags or belts and so on failed to effectively work proper. 
08-29-2007, 03:26 AM
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Danos, thanks for the reply. I should have mentioned in the original post that I've already tried padding on the left side of the center console, but it didn't really work out for me. And my feeling is that without articulating specifically how the airbags might not deploy or how the belts might not work properly, the safety concerns are overstated. On the other hand, if there's a solid factual argument to be made as to the potential dangers of replacing the rails with ones that are a few inches longer, I'd like to hear it.
Again, my main interest is actually finding longer railings, because if they don't exist and they can't be made, then the safety/insurance issues are really mute.
Again, my main interest is actually finding longer railings, because if they don't exist and they can't be made, then the safety/insurance issues are really mute.
08-29-2007, 10:50 AM
#4
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Damn, sadly enough I actually LIKE how much room my knees have in the xB. (If you haven't been in the driver seat of a tC yet, sit in that and see how bad it is... that's one of the main reason's i stopped driving it, it was killing my knee)
Now... i dunno your plans with this car, if you're just driving it, looks won't matter, if you're modding it, then they will.... have you not just tried removing the center consol around the shifter? Yea, you'll have the big ugly 'mechanical crap' (technical term ;) ) for the auto lever, but that should give you another inch or two for your knee. (not actually sure what's under there though, i know most of the time it's just a LOT of extra plastic.
Hell if looks DO matter... just take that one off, and build a fiberglass one w/ a knee indentation and pad that too if needed.
Sorry i can't answer your main question though.
Now... i dunno your plans with this car, if you're just driving it, looks won't matter, if you're modding it, then they will.... have you not just tried removing the center consol around the shifter? Yea, you'll have the big ugly 'mechanical crap' (technical term ;) ) for the auto lever, but that should give you another inch or two for your knee. (not actually sure what's under there though, i know most of the time it's just a LOT of extra plastic.
Hell if looks DO matter... just take that one off, and build a fiberglass one w/ a knee indentation and pad that too if needed.
Sorry i can't answer your main question though.
08-29-2007, 12:17 PM
#5
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Thanks soki for your reply. Wondered how you were making out. I did indeed have experience in just that dilema. I worked as a certified parts counter man for Ford Motor Co. and a man with a 36" inseam wanted to alter or lengthen the rails on his 05 explorer. A body of technicians and myself sent a request to the high smuckasmucks at Ford's HQ and the essence of their answer I gave you. I tried to imagine your senario in my xb2 and could not duplicate how you would feel (it was weird to rest my knee on the unit. I suppose I, if in your situation, might look into what "insane" suggested. I wish you well and do not want to lose you from Scion family. Update if anything works as many may have a similar problem :D
08-30-2007, 12:07 AM
#6
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Thanks for the responses and suggestions.
A while back, Malibu_Rapper posted pics of the assembly without the plastic...here is a good picture of it... http://www.pldlawyers.com/bp/scion/x.../page.htm?12,0
It doesn't necessarily show it, but I was told that the big chuck of plastic is very thick and would be difficult to cut into (such as for making an indentation to gain more space). Although a small amount might be gained just by removing the cover of the center console, I don't think it will be enough for what I'm looking for.
Another idea would be to invert the shifter from a 45 degree angle to more like a 90 degree angle, which I think would free up that space. Again, referring to the pic, one would have to remove the center chunk of plastic, fabricate some support, and probably adjust the shifter linkage. I think this would take a lot of work from someone who really knows cars inside and out. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone in Western/Upstate/Central New York to approach to do this. And it seems to me that fabricating and adding longer reinforced rails would take a fraction of the time and money to complete as compared with shortening and changing the angle on the center console.
In the meantime, I haven't given up, as I like the car too much. Still hoping someone will see this at some point and come up with an easy solution to swapping out longer seat rails. If I figure out a solution I'll post it if it looks like others might be interested.
A while back, Malibu_Rapper posted pics of the assembly without the plastic...here is a good picture of it... http://www.pldlawyers.com/bp/scion/x.../page.htm?12,0
It doesn't necessarily show it, but I was told that the big chuck of plastic is very thick and would be difficult to cut into (such as for making an indentation to gain more space). Although a small amount might be gained just by removing the cover of the center console, I don't think it will be enough for what I'm looking for.
Another idea would be to invert the shifter from a 45 degree angle to more like a 90 degree angle, which I think would free up that space. Again, referring to the pic, one would have to remove the center chunk of plastic, fabricate some support, and probably adjust the shifter linkage. I think this would take a lot of work from someone who really knows cars inside and out. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone in Western/Upstate/Central New York to approach to do this. And it seems to me that fabricating and adding longer reinforced rails would take a fraction of the time and money to complete as compared with shortening and changing the angle on the center console.
In the meantime, I haven't given up, as I like the car too much. Still hoping someone will see this at some point and come up with an easy solution to swapping out longer seat rails. If I figure out a solution I'll post it if it looks like others might be interested.
08-30-2007, 03:09 AM
#7
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You just got me thinking!
Wow they put a lot of sh....tuff in there. 
What aboout places that adapt cars vans etc. for handicap drivers. these people have shops alter the vehicle within state limits. They may make something for the rails or shift box. Worth a try. Might be pricey Don't know 
Keep in touch!
What aboout places that adapt cars vans etc. for handicap drivers. these people have shops alter the vehicle within state limits. They may make something for the rails or shift box. Worth a try. Might be pricey Don't know Keep in touch!
08-30-2007, 07:45 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by soki-orb
Thanks for the responses and suggestions.
A while back, Malibu_Rapper posted pics of the assembly without the plastic...here is a good picture of it... http://www.pldlawyers.com/bp/scion/x.../page.htm?12,0
It doesn't necessarily show it, but I was told that the big chuck of plastic is very thick and would be difficult to cut into (such as for making an indentation to gain more space). Although a small amount might be gained just by removing the cover of the center console, I don't think it will be enough for what I'm looking for.
Another idea would be to invert the shifter from a 45 degree angle to more like a 90 degree angle, which I think would free up that space. Again, referring to the pic, one would have to remove the center chunk of plastic, fabricate some support, and probably adjust the shifter linkage. I think this would take a lot of work from someone who really knows cars inside and out. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone in Western/Upstate/Central New York to approach to do this. And it seems to me that fabricating and adding longer reinforced rails would take a fraction of the time and money to complete as compared with shortening and changing the angle on the center console.
In the meantime, I haven't given up, as I like the car too much. Still hoping someone will see this at some point and come up with an easy solution to swapping out longer seat rails. If I figure out a solution I'll post it if it looks like others might be interested.
A while back, Malibu_Rapper posted pics of the assembly without the plastic...here is a good picture of it... http://www.pldlawyers.com/bp/scion/x.../page.htm?12,0
It doesn't necessarily show it, but I was told that the big chuck of plastic is very thick and would be difficult to cut into (such as for making an indentation to gain more space). Although a small amount might be gained just by removing the cover of the center console, I don't think it will be enough for what I'm looking for.
Another idea would be to invert the shifter from a 45 degree angle to more like a 90 degree angle, which I think would free up that space. Again, referring to the pic, one would have to remove the center chunk of plastic, fabricate some support, and probably adjust the shifter linkage. I think this would take a lot of work from someone who really knows cars inside and out. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone in Western/Upstate/Central New York to approach to do this. And it seems to me that fabricating and adding longer reinforced rails would take a fraction of the time and money to complete as compared with shortening and changing the angle on the center console.
In the meantime, I haven't given up, as I like the car too much. Still hoping someone will see this at some point and come up with an easy solution to swapping out longer seat rails. If I figure out a solution I'll post it if it looks like others might be interested.
I think, for me, part of the solution is sitting a bit further away from the steering wheel than I normally am used to sitting. However, I normally sit fairly close to the wheel. Probably too close. Because the airbags need room to deploy in an accident, the manufacturers don't like you sitting very close to the wheel and recommend that you sit as far away as you comfortably can.
However, sitting further away from the steering wheel can only go so far. It depends on the design of the center console/center stack in the particular car. Some that only protrude slightly can be avoided by sitting further back. But others, like the new xB, have such large, wide consoles that it would be impossible, at least for me, to sit far enough back to solve the problem without causing other problems in the process. Sitting with the seat slid all the way back (even on the stock length rails) forces me to straighten out my arms too much (ala Frankenstein) to reach the wheel, and possibly creates other posture problems as well. Installing seat rails that are longer than stock would, in my opinion, create more problems than it solves.
Putting a pad on the side of the console seems like a good idea. However, in the case of the new xB, the console is already so wide that putting a pad there would only decrease further the already minimal knee room.
The idea of modding the console to make it narrower is one that I have been considering. This would create a little more room - perhaps enough to add a knee pad in there.
I posted this photochop a while back in XBFred's thread from when he was installing the sound deadening materials and had the outer console plastic off.
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=176165
But I missed MalibuRapper's large pic of the exposed console before - thanks for posting that!
I'm wondering though, if anyone knows whether there is a direct mechanical linkage between the shifter and the transmission. Because if the shifter is just a fancy switchbox and is only connected to the trans via wires, the entire console could be moved to a different location - such as lower to the floor.
08-31-2007, 02:44 AM
#9
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I appreciate the ideas...thanks for the additional thoughts.
Danos, I actually went to a shop that specializes in outfitting cars for handicapped people. His solution would be to move the entire seat back because he felt that finding or modding longer rails would be very difficult. I asked him about converting this to a shift on the column, but he just shook his head. I did not, however, show him a picture of what is under the plastic, so maybe if I do that, it might spark some ideas.
Toronado, for the sake of all (or should I say both) of us who whine about the lack of space, you must do this mod! Seriously, having that big box on the floor, how great would that be? Oh yeah, now I remember, that's how it is in the first gen! I really hope someone has an answer about whether there is a direct mechanical linkage between the shifter and the transmission. The whole thing makes me wish that this had been designed more like the t2B, with the shifter high on the console and what looks to be plenty of lateral leg room. As for me, I will still look into longer rails... along with my freakishly long legs I also have rather long arms, so I envision it all working out in the end. Still, relocating the shifter, or getting rid of the bulk would be awesome. By the way, TOTALLY love that photochop.
Danos, I actually went to a shop that specializes in outfitting cars for handicapped people. His solution would be to move the entire seat back because he felt that finding or modding longer rails would be very difficult. I asked him about converting this to a shift on the column, but he just shook his head. I did not, however, show him a picture of what is under the plastic, so maybe if I do that, it might spark some ideas.
Toronado, for the sake of all (or should I say both) of us who whine about the lack of space, you must do this mod! Seriously, having that big box on the floor, how great would that be? Oh yeah, now I remember, that's how it is in the first gen! I really hope someone has an answer about whether there is a direct mechanical linkage between the shifter and the transmission. The whole thing makes me wish that this had been designed more like the t2B, with the shifter high on the console and what looks to be plenty of lateral leg room. As for me, I will still look into longer rails... along with my freakishly long legs I also have rather long arms, so I envision it all working out in the end. Still, relocating the shifter, or getting rid of the bulk would be awesome. By the way, TOTALLY love that photochop.
08-31-2007, 04:11 AM
#11
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Pushbutton transmission??!! Is this possible??? I'm officially way over my head...
http://www.retrotekspeed.com/product...art-shift.html
http://www.retrotekspeed.com/product...art-shift.html
08-31-2007, 06:12 AM
#12
Yeah, I think that's it.
We installed one on a customer's car a year or so ago. Worked really well. It's a rad kit. I'm not sure about the $1000 price tag, but it's rad nonetheless.
Back in the sixties some cars had push button transmissions, too. I remember a friend's old dodge dart had one.
We installed one on a customer's car a year or so ago. Worked really well. It's a rad kit. I'm not sure about the $1000 price tag, but it's rad nonetheless.
Back in the sixties some cars had push button transmissions, too. I remember a friend's old dodge dart had one.
08-31-2007, 08:52 AM
#13
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Originally Posted by soki-orb
Toronado, for the sake of all (or should I say both) of us who whine about the lack of space, you must do this mod! Seriously, having that big box on the floor, how great would that be? Oh yeah, now I remember, that's how it is in the first gen! I really hope someone has an answer about whether there is a direct mechanical linkage between the shifter and the transmission. The whole thing makes me wish that this had been designed more like the t2B, with the shifter high on the console and what looks to be plenty of lateral leg room. As for me, I will still look into longer rails... along with my freakishly long legs I also have rather long arms, so I envision it all working out in the end. Still, relocating the shifter, or getting rid of the bulk would be awesome. By the way, TOTALLY love that photochop.
"Front-seat room is restricted. The overly large center pod surrounding the shifter intrudes on occupants' legs."
And they posted a video review of the xB as well in which they actually show how the driver's knee bumps into the side of the console.
09-06-2007, 02:31 AM
#14
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Saw this in the 1st-Gen Owners Lounge...
How did he get the clutch off the floor and up on the dash? And couldn't the same thing be done with the xB2 to get rid of the center console?
More at https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...r=asc&&start=0
How did he get the clutch off the floor and up on the dash? And couldn't the same thing be done with the xB2 to get rid of the center console?
More at https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...r=asc&&start=0
09-07-2007, 07:51 AM
#15
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Originally Posted by soki-orb
Saw this in the 1st-Gen Owners Lounge...
How did he get the clutch off the floor and up on the dash? And couldn't the same thing be done with the xB2 to get rid of the center console?
More at https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...r=asc&&start=0
How did he get the clutch off the floor and up on the dash? And couldn't the same thing be done with the xB2 to get rid of the center console?
More at https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...r=asc&&start=0
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