I'm FUMING about some of this, but since I can't prove anything I'll leave the dealer's name out of it. Basically if I hadn't done my homework I'd have gotten totally screwed here.

Will leave particulars out of it, but lets just say that I noticed that when we were showed our "credit report" at the dealer, it was 50-60 pts lower than what we had received (www.freecreditreport.com), so we didn't qualify for Scion's "best" financing of 4.65% and a $400 college grad rebate. So we would have been charged 5.25% if we hadn't already come in with our own loan that we'd gotten through www.lendingtree.com. I thought it was just that we hadn't gotten our scores from their agency, but it turns out that we had and didn't realize it. So now I'm just ____ED even though the $$ came out about the same... :evil:

So WHATEVER you do, DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!!! Get all three credit scores (yeah, it's like $35 or something), print them, bring them to the dealer and have a loan from someone else all set up before you negotiate. eloan came in with the best car loan, and mailed us a check that all we had to do was fill in the amount (under a certain amt) and sign it and we would've been good to go. Toyota actually came in with a lower 3rd party rate, but I'm freakin' BENT that I could've been charged a full percentage point higher just b/c of them. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Oh yeah, the sales guy (if you're reading this, you know who you are) was totally cool, totally helpful, and I absolutely LOVE the Scion, thanks again for all your help. I'm just so ____ed I'm tempted to contact the Scion headquarters....

Well ____ man, we didn't even get $400 college grad money :( Now I'M ____ed.

Well ____ man, we didn't even get $400 college grad money :( Now I'M ____ed.

it's on the scion website, can't remember the exact link, but if you've graduated within the last 2 years, are enrolled currently in undergrad *OR* an accredited garduate program, you can get a $400 rebate if you go with Scion Financial (4.65%, non-negotiable).

UPDATE So specifics are that Toyota/Scion said my credit score was 50 points below what I had been told by the exact same agency the week prior, and my gf's was 12 points below what she has now (4 days after buying the car). Both put us *just* below the magic number of 700, which was what was required for the 4.65% and the $400 rebate. So unless someone has a decent explanation for this (other dealers? any input?), I'll probably be writing a letter to Scion Headquarters and let them know...

(love my tC though!!! 8) )

There has got to be some kind of explination for that. There is no way that a dealer can do anything to change the score of your credit report and it would make absolutley no sense for them to do that. To be compliant they have to have a copy of your credit report in the deal along with the finance rate menu. If for any reason you were financed with Toyota and didn't get the rate that was posted on the menu they are out of compliance and will lose 30% of their inventory. I would assume in the time that you got your credit report and the time the dealer ran your credit some one reported something negative on it. As far as the college grad rebate it does state that you have to have NO derogatory credit on your report. I hope this all makes sense, but I just don't see any way or reason for that matter for the dealer to chage your credit score.

I don't know how a dealer could falsify a credit report. They don't generate credit scores, they just present them the way the bureau spits them out. If anything you should write a letter to experian, trans union, equifax, or whatever credit agency they use...it's their number, not the dealers.

Also, maybe freecreditreport.com was using another TRW and not one of the major 3. I know our dealership primarily uses experian.

Going on the fact that I saw a commercial for Freecreditreport.com on TV during a rerun of Magnum PI yesterday...it was on right after Springer and in between ads for ambulance chaser law firms, I'd have to say it's probably not the most reliable source.

Go to www.experian.com.....you are entitled to 1 free credit report from the major bureaus a year. Even the dealership has to pay for each credit report we run, and I'd trust our # over one generated by some random web page.

Oh well, i thought it was just an incentive because we didn't go with Scion Financial. Had me worried dude! I hate losing money :)

Another factor that could be playing into your credit score(s) is requesting or applying for credit. I used to work for a financial data processor, and the way I understand credit scoring is a that it is complex formula (for each credit report company - Experian, Equifax, and TransUnion) that combines your credit history (paying bills on time, paying off or tward previous debt in a timely manner), currently available credit (open ended loans or credit cards), and recent credit applications. They can also go into great depth on your credit report, but most places look at your beacon number (making it easy to review applications for them.) In the end, they look at the risk they take by givng you a loan. It was also very common for the lenders to adjust the rate based on the terms (usually length of the loan) - they assume you are more likely to finish paying off a three year old vehicle , so give your a rate break if you go with a 36 month loan instead of a five year old vehicle or 60 months, for example.

I understand Scion's "make the buying experience easy", including the financing, but it's still the loan game to me! I guess in the end, shopping rates is the best thing to do, but making "official" credit applications can end up hurting you.

...Just sharing some of my insight into the big financial wolrd...

The credit scores you get from website like freecreditreport.com and even experian.com (unless you really look) are not your real credit scores. they are like a dumbed down verison of your score, that easier for you to understand. Alot of them are on an entirely differnt scale that your real score (FICO score). They are always higher than your real score. To get your real score your should actually call experian, (and the other two as well) and have them send you it on a piece of paper. Make sure you specify that you want your FICO score.

Sucks you didnt finance through TFS, your won't be getting your $50 Scion gift card. :wink:

Another factor that could be playing into your credit score(s) is requesting or applying for credit. I used to work for a financial data processor, and the way I understand credit scoring is a that it is complex formula (for each credit report company - Experian, Equifax, and TransUnion) that combines your credit history (paying bills on time, paying off or tward previous debt in a timely manner), currently available credit (open ended loans or credit cards), and recent credit applications. They can also go into great depth on your credit report, but most places look at your beacon number (making it easy to review applications for them.) In the end, they look at the risk they take by givng you a loan. It was also very common for the lenders to adjust the rate based on the terms (usually length of the loan) - they assume you are more likely to finish paying off a three year old vehicle , so give your a rate break if you go with a 36 month loan instead of a five year old vehicle or 60 months, for example.

I understand Scion's "make the buying experience easy", including the financing, but it's still the loan game to me! I guess in the end, shopping rates is the best thing to do, but making "official" credit applications can end up hurting you.

...Just sharing some of my insight into the big financial wolrd...

I understand about the whole length of loan thing, but what I'm freakin' bent about is that I was showed a FICO score that was DRASTICALLY different from what I had gotten before I went in, and then since (see above post). Moral of the story is definitely get all 3 fico scores just before you negotiate, and get loan approval as well from an outside source. :?

:roll:

The credit scores you get from website like freecreditreport.com and even experian.com (unless you really look) are not your real credit scores. they are like a dumbed down verison of your score, that easier for you to understand. Alot of them are on an entirely differnt scale that your real score (FICO score). They are always higher than your real score. To get your real score your should actually call experian, (and the other two as well) and have them send you it on a piece of paper. Make sure you specify that you want your FICO score.

Sucks you didnt finance through TFS, your won't be getting your $50 Scion gift card. :wink:

Through Experian it says "Credit Score", and my score is 737 on a scale of 330-830. Is this not my FICO score???? :?:

not that it would have changed anything, but why didn't you bring a copy of the report you got to the dealership? maybe they would have checked again for you.

look on the bright side, you got a new car and love it. :D

Ha, you got screwed, lol

go away. if you can actually read, you'll see I *didn't* get screwed. go have another drink... http://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/lush.gif

not that it would have changed anything, but why didn't you bring a copy of the report you got to the dealership? maybe they would have checked again for you.

look on the bright side, you got a new car and love it. :D

left it at work. didn't think I'd need it, and didn't realize that it was the same agency till yesterday. And yes, I do love my new tC. And I'm thankful that my gf forced us to get credit scores, loan applications and even insurance quotes before we actually walked into the dealer to talk $$$.

Ha, you got screwed, lol

Did you read the part where he did his homework and didn't get screwed? :roll:

Ha, you got screwed, lol

Did you read the part where he did his homework and didn't get screwed? :roll:

guess not. subjects that state "DO YOUR HOMEWORK" apparently are a little too complicated for cg. will try to write using simpler words... :lol:

yes, it's does pay to do your home work. The dealer wanted to give me a loan @ 12 1/2 % and then I looked into a credit union where I got a loan at 2.9%. :lol:

yes he did get screwed, he could have had it for a lower APR..then that....I will post how...

So, under the College grad plan, you don't automatically get Zone I financing? That is how they advertise it on the websites. It sounds like credit ratings only hurt you if you have any bad credit records. So, is the college program just a bunch of BS??? I wouldn't mind the extra $400.

you can't have any adverse credit..no late pay..slow pay.
just another reason to keep yourself together .
but if you have , you can get zone 1 rates .
and $400
and no down payment
and 90 day deferred 1st payment
remember...bad credit last a very long time
zz

So, under the College grad plan, you don't automatically get Zone I financing? That is how they advertise it on the websites. It sounds like credit ratings only hurt you if you have any bad credit records. So, is the college program just a bunch of BS??? I wouldn't mind the extra $400.
The College Grad program does not specifically look at the credit score. It only requires that you have no negative items on your report.

By the way, one reason you might see different scores, is that the score that an auto dealer pulls up is calculated differently and is an auto specific score. It is supposed to put more emphasis on any previous auto loans, among other things.

It is not possible for the dealer to alter your FICO score and it is also not in their interest. They get paid the same for a Scion contract if you are tier 1 or tier 4. Ease off of the conspiracy theory. The lower your rate the easier it is to sell you a car.

Ok, here's a basic lesson on credit. Car dealers pull what is known as an "Automotive FICO" score. Why is it different? For example, if you were financing a house, the score that they pull up would be higher because a house appeciates in value. Plus, even if a house burns down, there is still value in the land that can be reposessed or recovered. With jewelry, it's just the opposite. Jewelry is easy to hide, move around, sell privately, and that makes it very difficult to reposess. Same thing with a car. It's mobile, it depreciates, and can be difficult to reposess. This is why your score would be lower for financing a car, than if you are pulling a "generic" FICO score. There are also other facotors, but those are the main ones. I hope this helps.

Do not trust what the dealer says regarding your credit score. They lie whenever it is a benefit to them. Dealers typically claim that your credit score is lower than actual and will get a kickback from the finance company when you get financing. The kickback is a portion of the difference between what interest you should have paid and what you actually had to pay because of the devalued score.

With Scion, and its unique financing rules, your interest rate is based soley on your score, so there is no way for Scion dealers to change your rate. It is a flat fee no matter what the rate (if you go through Scion finance). Ask the salesperson to show you the score if you want to.

Do not trust what the dealer says regarding your credit score. They lie whenever it is a benefit to them. Dealers typically claim that your credit score is lower than actual and will get a kickback from the finance company when you get financing. The kickback is a portion of the difference between what interest you should have paid and what you actually had to pay because of the devalued score.

Mmmm ok, :roll: it doesnt sound like you know too much about Scion. I hate it when people talk about things that they don't understand.

First, I did not mean to group our beloved Scion brand in with the general comments about dealerships. I wouldn't know what kind of tricks, if any, Scion dealerships/finance people would try to pull as I arranged financing with my credit union prior to signing paperwork at dealership. I did not even bother to inquire about dealer financing as I have had a number of bad experiences with other brands/dealerships and wanted to keep everything straightforward. Forgive me if I may have sounded cynical and distrustful.

Second, IF Scion, Scion dealerships, and Scion dealership finance people are as honest, fair, straightforward as you may be implying= Wonderful


Third, I demand that anyone who feels they were a.) taken advantage of while purchasing a Scion, or b.) not given the best financing rate possible for their given credit score must hereby apologise for even considering that Scion would ever do such a thing. You should be ashamed for questioning Scion and the manner in which they conduct business.


(Also, if you are not an employee of Scion or one of their dealerships, OR, have an official Scion dealer policy and procedure for financing= you are not allowed to raise any doubt about Scion's business practices)

Feel better?

i wish i was a baller, or a shot caller, or a little taller. i'd just slap down the benjamins.

financing can be tricky. the advice of doing your homework is the best advice. get your credit reports. you get one free report yearly and if you have been denied credit.

go to a financial institution (credit unions offer lower rates & fewer/less fees) and get pre-approved. DON'T walk on the floor to make your deal and rely on the dealer entirely to get you the financing you want. you your score and know the rate and amount you are eligible for and youre cool. 8)

gnrxb...who the hell are you talking about? scion or jesus?

we can't question them? we should be ashamed to do so? don't be a fool bro. it's just a car dealership man.

You didn't smell the sarcasm.?


I guess my whole point is that we be prepared before going to the dealership(any) and not always take what the dealship says to be the whole truth.

Scion may or may not be like "the rest", but it would be great if they were a cut above.

You didn't smell the sarcasm.?


I guess my whole point is that we be prepared before going to the dealership(any) and not always take what the dealship says to be the whole truth.

Scion may or may not be like "the rest", but it would be great if they were a cut above.
Maybe you didn't understand. With Scion Solutions financing, your credit score determines your interest rate, which is posted on every dealer's website and showroom pricing menu. Scion does not allow us to change the rate from their published rate, and even if we did, we wouldn't make any extra money, because they only pay us a flat fee for each contract we do with them. We must have a copy of your actual credit history in your file to show that we used the correct interest rate. So, there is no reason or even any incentive for us to "play" with the numbers.

That's great, it's too bad all financing isn't like that.

Scion's "new and improved" way of financing is nothing more than a new way to make more money. The no haggle price is just that, a no haggle price. This may be better for those who are uneducated about car buying, unwilling to research, or just don't care what they spend on a consumable. However, for those who do research, and want to negociate the price of the car, a major screwing is in the works. Yes, a scion dealer can lower the price of the car. Yes, a Scion dealer can raise the price of the car. Although, if a dealer does either of the two, Scion headquaters will lower allocation said dealer. That means lower profit for the dealer and a "justifiable" way to price-fix Scion cars. I wouldn't be surpised if two things happend in the future. One, more dealers start to follow Scion's and Saturn's model. Two, a class action lawsuit filed for price-fixng. The first item is more plausible due to financing options other than Scion. But how many people are smart enough to do pursue other options. If you have not noticed, this line of cars is marketed toward the younger, less car buying experience, age group.

-not a rant or a rave, just an analysis.

Scion's "new and improved" way of financing is nothing more than a new way to make more money. The no haggle price is just that, a no haggle price. This may be better for those who are uneducated about car buying, unwilling to research, or just don't care what they spend on a consumable. However, for those who do research, and want to negociate the price of the car, a major screwing is in the works. Yes, a scion dealer can lower the price of the car. Yes, a Scion dealer can raise the price of the car. Although, if a dealer does either of the two, Scion headquaters will lower allocation said dealer. That means lower profit for the dealer and a "justifiable" way to price-fix Scion cars. I wouldn't be surpised if two things happend in the future. One, more dealers start to follow Scion's and Saturn's model. Two, a class action lawsuit filed for price-fixng. The first item is more plausible due to financing options other than Scion. But how many people are smart enough to do pursue other options. If you have not noticed, this line of cars is marketed toward the younger, less car buying experience, age group.

-not a rant or a rave, just an analysis.

This is the biggest load of crap I have heard in a long time....Once again someone is going on and on about something they no nothing about. First of all, a class action lawsuit? OK, if thats the case than I am going to file a class action lawsuit against every grocery store, electronics store, gas station and so on for fixing prices since I can't negotiate on items I buy there. Scions prices are not fixed, we can sell them for whatever we want just as long as the price is posted on the menu that day. As of right now because of the popularity of these cars there is no reason to do this. And even if we did discount them don't look for more than a couple hudred dollars off the MSRP!

The Scion's are marketed to the younger buyer, that was the reason that came out with them. In the planning stages of Scion they formed focus groups of young car buyers. In those focus groups they found out that the younger buyer did not want to negotiate the price of the car, they just want the best deal possible up front....and thats what you get with Scion. Scion sales are not big money makers for the dealerships. The main reason that dealers have scion is not for immediate profit, its that when the younger buyer trades in their Scion they will graduate to a Toyota. The profit on a Scion is between $600-800 for the car and that is a true profit. No hold back, no advertising no nothing. If you sat down and bought a Corolla at invoice the delaer is still picking up 2% of the invoice as well as other money. Do you really think that a Toyota with all the standard features that the Scion comes with is worth any less than the MSRP on them. They don't mark up the Scion to mark it down later.

I think that Scion has done a very good job in making everything be up front so that a younger buyer can buy the car without being taken advantage of. Yes, the younger uneducated car buyer! In fact if the buyer your talking about was buying anything but a scion that dealership would make a whole lot more money....and I mean thousands of dollars more. If you don't agree with the way that Scion does buisness because you can't negotiate the price than don't buy one. Toyota knew when they created it that it wasn't for everybody, and I think thats why it is doing so well.

I don't understand why people have a hard time accepting the whole "no hassle, no haggle" philosophy of Scion. You don't go into Best Buy to buy a CD and tell the cashier that you want to buy it for thier invoice price do you? And aren't prices the same at all Best Buys? But do people call that price fixing and say that Best Buy employees are trying to steal your money? Nope.

I bet all car companies are going to switch to a non-negotiable sales philosophy one day. It is a lot simpler and it will make salesmen change the way they do business. Salesmen would not have to manipulate the #'s to make customer think they got a good deal, even though they didn't. If the price was the same at every dealership, the salesman would actually have to :shock: be nice to the customer. All the salesman would have to earn the customer's business would be his personality and how well he treats them. That's what would differentiate the dealers from one another.

I see people come in to the Toyota side of the dealership all the time with thier little folder full of Kelly Blue Book trade values, supposed invoice prices and unrealisticly low offers from other dealerships; their trade value is way to high, their invoice price is way too low and they won't budge a bit, its kinda funny when you think about it, sorta like a little kid who doesn't get his way and refuses to do anything no matter how reasonable it may be.

Saying that the no haggle price is just another way to make money is sorta ignorant, why exactly do you think the price of these cars is so low? Because there is hardly any markup on these cars at all, only about $400-$600 above what we pay for them, and there's no holdback on these cars either so the profit a dealership makes after paying the salesman the flat fee for the car ($100 for a tC, $125 for xA/xB, here at least), paying the pack fee, and facility upkeep fees, is next to nothing. The whole point of Scion has always been to get customers who would normally never touch a Toyota, into a Toyota dealership. Basically, a kid buys a few Scions and when he gets a little older, he starts to buy Toyotas, then maybe a Lexus or two. Toyota doesn't care if they make no money on Scion because they feel that the future Toyota business that Scion buyers represent is well worth the poor returns on Scion

BTW, not ranting, just analyzing :lol:

jeffrgunn23-
"I am going to file a class action lawsuit against every grocery store, electronics store, gas station and so on for fixing prices since I can't negotiate on items I buy"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing
As most times with laws, there are work-arounds. Grocery stores work around price-fixing by having sales at different times at different locations. I highly doubt that some one would bring a class action lawsuit if the price of grapes suddenly increased by 100% at three stores in a regional area simultaneously rather than scion marking up prices by ~5.27% over invoice in similar conditions. Do the math. You can haggle just about anywhere. At Honda parts and service, I asked if I could get a discount on oil filters if I bought five at the same time. The clerk said sure, I'll throw in a free one. Now, Scion is getting around illegal price-fixing by:

1) Not having the dealer sign a contract, but that doesn't mean they don't 'enforce' it by, oh, I don't know, "reducing allocation" upon review.
2) Saying they can charge what they want as long as its posted somewhere.
3) Having Scion reduce allocation to dealers if they do not abide by those rules 'motivates' dealers not to decrease as well as increase prices.

As Shadyeye16 stated in the following thread:
http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22797&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25

"Dealers can sell a car for whatever they want as long as what they charge matches thier website and their in-store menu (if they want to stay covenant compliant and keep thier allocation #'s) And technically they don't even have to do that as long as they don't mind losing 30% of thier allocation when Scion does thier review. That's really the only way for Scion to enforce the supposed no haggle price."

The popularity of the vehicle is understandable due to limited stock and a great all around car for the price. My girlfriend and I recently purchased a Scion tC and we are quite happy with it. But it doesn't hurt to try to get it at a lesser price than that of everyone else.

"Scion sales are not big money makers for the dealerships. The main reason that dealers have scion is not for immediate profit, its that when the younger buyer trades in their Scion they will graduate to a Toyota."

That's what's known as a long-term investment or another way to make money.

I agree with jeffrgunn23 that an inexperienced buyer may pay more at another dealer. However, telling people to go somewhere else if people don't like it instead of trying, most reasonably, to satisfy the customer is not the best business strategy. It loses customers.

Shadyeye16-
"If the price was the same at every dealership, the salesman would actually have to be nice to the customer."

That is a good point and I agree.

"I bet all car companies are going to switch to a non-negotiable sales philosophy one day."

I hope not. A few Scion dealers setting prices 2.5% above invoice is more costly than all grocery stores marking grapes up 200%.

"I see people...with thier little folder full of Kelly Blue Book trade values, supposed invoice prices and unrealisticly low offers from other dealerships; their trade value is way to high, their invoice price is way too low and they won't budge a bit...sorta like a little kid who doesn't get his way and refuses to do anything no matter how reasonable it may be."

At least they try, I bet many people have gotten a better deal than they first expected because of that "little folder". However, there are the occasional irrational customers.



"Saying that the no haggle price is just another way to make money is sorta ignorant"

I'm sorry you had to result to insults in your rebuttal, but the ultimate goal of 99.9% of businesses is to make money. No money, business. Right? Right.

"[P]aying the salesman the flat fee for the car ($100 for a tC, $125 for xA/xB, here at least)."

That is between the employee and the employer, not the customer.

Finally, selling Scions at a "loss" to gain more in the end with Toyotas or Lexus is similar to the strategy of Microsoft's xBox. Sell xBox at a low price. Then, make up the difference by selling games for a higher profit. That is a way to make more money.

BTW...I just 4.1 from TMC on my XB below the published rate.....

BTW...I just 4.1 from TMC on my XB below the published rate.....

I don't know if the same thing happened over there in NC, but here in Chicago, we just got a new finance rate plan from Scion where there are now 5 FICO zones instead of only 4, with the best rate now being 4.10% and now even zone 2's are only @ 4.25%

jeffrgunn23-


"I bet all car companies are going to switch to a non-negotiable sales philosophy one day."

I hope not. A few Scion dealers setting prices 2.5% above invoice is more costly than all grocery stores marking grapes up 200%....

..."Saying that the no haggle price is just another way to make money is sorta ignorant"

I'm sorry you had to result to insults in your rebuttal, but the ultimate goal of 99.9% of businesses is to make money. No money, business. Right? Right.


First off, very good insight on what i said, I'm glad that I got the message across pretty well.

If and when the rest of the car nameplates go to the no-haggle price thing, I think the no-haggle price will be a higher percentage over invoice than Scions are. Things like holdback, differant models (CE, LE, XLE, SR5, etc.) and minor package changes will make it more complicated than Scion, but I think in the long run, it will benefit both dealers and consumers.

The line about saying that the no-haggle price is just another way to make money being ignorant was not meant to be an insult at all, sorry if it came across like that. I just meant that there are many reasons for the No-Haggle price that have nothing to do with making money. It has become a rather well known fact here on SL that Scions do not make dealers or Toyota much $, as you stated in your post; Using Scion as a way to build future Toyota customers is exactly why Toyota doesn't mind the minimal profit from Scion, (its not like they're really losing money, just not making a whole lot of it). Since (I thought) the majority of people here knew about the low profit Scion produces, saying that No-Haggle pricing is just a way to make money seemed like an uneducated (about Scion, not in general, and again, I don't mean that as an insult) comment to make.

Your absolutley right, and you did not offend me when you said that guy was ignorant. I happen to agree that the comment he made about pure price being only a way for the dealership to ensure a profit was uneducated when it came to Scion. I am not saying he is ignorant, but when it comes to Scion he needs to do a little more research.

I am not comparing Scion's business practices to that of a used car sales dealer trying to the rip off the consumer by selling a vehicle at an extremely higher price than that of said vehicle's value. A company starts with an idea of a product or service to sell to the consumer. The company may conduct focus groups to refine the idea to its full marketablity. The main goal of this idea is to make money. The focus groups are a means to make the idea appeal as much as it can to the target consumer. In this case, the younger less experienced auto consumer. This may be good for the younger auto consumer that does not care how much is needed to purchse the vehicle nor if there is a possibility to acquire the vehicle at a lesser price, with some time spent on research, than that of everyone else in his immediate region. However, it does not help me much if I can't have the opportunity to negotiate the dealer profit below the 5.266%, over invoice with no holdback, they are charging everyone else. Scion dealers enforce the 5.266% on just about everyone because Scion will reduce allocations to any dealer that does not follow that model. I doubt dealers would want to lose the allocation of a vehicle in high demand. That does not allow room for a consumer to negotiate the price. Thus, a reasonable method of price-fixing.

You keep talking about the 5.266% above invoice as being what Scion says we HAVE to charge people and that is simply not the truth. We can charge 1% under invoice if we wished to just as long as we posted that price on our menu. What I don't understand is your need to negotiate when you by a vehicle, why can't you just except that the vehicle is already a great bargain at the price it is, if it wasn't you wouldn't have bought one. A customer purchases a vehicle when they feel that the value exceeds the price, and you bought a Scion so obviously you feel that the car was a good deal. If negotiating is that much fun for you I would recomend becoming a car salesman and then you could do it every day!

i wish i was a baller, or a shot caller, or a little taller. i'd just slap down the benjamins.

financing can be tricky. the advice of doing your homework is the best advice. get your credit reports. you get one free report yearly and if you have been denied credit.

go to a financial institution (credit unions offer lower rates & fewer/less fees) and get pre-approved. DON'T walk on the floor to make your deal and rely on the dealer entirely to get you the financing you want. you your score and know the rate and amount you are eligible for and youre cool. 8)

I will admit i haven't read half the posts but it looks liek it is about financing. I did what Lootyman did. I went to my bank and I got lower than 4%. I wouldn't finance my car through the dealer. Even though scion wasn't to bad I still got better from my finance institution.

I will admit i haven't read half the posts but it looks liek it is about financing. I did what Lootyman did. I went to my bank and I got lower than 4%. I wouldn't finance my car through the dealer. Even though scion wasn't to bad I still got better from my finance institution.


Right now that seems to be normal that you can get a lower rate if you are a member of a credit union. Before I sold cars I worked for a bank and in the 3 years I was there I never once did a new car loan. The bank can never compete with the dealers interest rates. If you are a member of a credit union, then it is exactly the oppisite, you will do better with them than what Scion is offering in most parts of the country. Just remember when it comes to financing do your research and find the best rate for you. The good thing about scion is if you finance with them your not getting screwed, but there may be better out there!

True about banks ......my fiance works for Bank of America and her employee rate was 4.9! When bought our Volvo we got 2.9 through Volvo and the wound up at BOA anyway..so you never know you just need to shop :D

What scares me is that literally 7 days ago I had my credit pulled at another Scion dealership because I was going to purchase one with them... At that time I had a 663 fico. Not the best but not the worst and actually qualified me at a decent rate but ended selling the Scion out from under me. When I went to a dealership that actually had a Scion on the lot for me to purchase, they pulled my credit and BAM, 608. I was absolutely furious and got on the phone immediately to the other dealer and asked if they had been running my credit around town trying to get me financed or whatever some scummy dealers do... they said they hadn't and according to the second dealer I was speaking with, the report actually only reflected only 2 inquiries in total...

How could my credit drop that dramatically in 7 days time?

I'm going to order a report right now and see what my scores are. If I come to find out that my scores are actually higher than what he told me (which btw, he wouldn't let me touch or look at my report) there will be some problems. I couldn't imagine them doing this considering the legal implications but nonetheless, this post makes me wonder. I got slammed with an absolutely horrible rate and a 72 month term. If it wasn't for the fact that I know I'll be paying it off this year, I would have made a much larger fuss about it.

Keep in mind that your score can vary with the different bureau companies, and also with the different bureau types. I would agree though, that seems a big drop if they were both auto-specific bureaus.

Two things:

1. On the topic of this discussion, the dealer has absolutely no incentive to crank your rate. We are paid a "flat fee" for arranging the financing and the rate is determined soley by your score. The dealer absolutely can and should show you the report. They can not give it to you, nor make a copy, but they are allowed to review it with you. If they give you a copy, they become responsible for its contents.

2. Price fixing. Toyota does not require that we sell the cars at sticker. That would be a violation of anti-trust laws. They require that we sell all cars at the same price and advertise that exact price to all customers. This is what they audit and what they base bonuses and punishments upon. We could sell them all for $500 over sticker, as long as this was the price we listed and made available to all customers. Same goes for any discounts. Don't like that system? Don't buy one.

In this case it would seem to me that the dealers pulled different bureau's, which would explain the difference in the two scores.

Well ____ man, we didn't even get $400 college grad money :( Now I'M ____ed.

it's on the scion website, can't remember the exact link, but if you've graduated within the last 2 years, are enrolled currently in undergrad *OR* an accredited garduate program, you can get a $400 rebate if you go with Scion Financial (4.65%, non-negotiable).



Hey where on the s ite does it say if you're an UNDERGRAD you get a 400 rebate?

The credit scores you get from website like freecreditreport.com and even experian.com (unless you really look) are not your real credit scores. they are like a dumbed down verison of your score, that easier for you to understand. Alot of them are on an entirely differnt scale that your real score (FICO score). They are always higher than your real score. (snip)

In my case it was the opposite. A few days before I went to the dealer I ran my Equifax and Experian (dealer said they use Experian). My Scores were as follows:

Equifax: 781
Experian: 789
Dealer (Experian): 818

Not that I am complaining at all. Just wanted to point out that mine went the other direction...UP! :)

i can't help but laugh at the people who come into my dealership and can't understand the concept of no haggle. the people who get upset, call me a liar, and insinuate that i'm trying to rip them off. the same people who shop at ross, so they can better deals than macy, yet are paying $20 for jeans, which cost less than a dollar to make. yet, of course, although they didn't even try to haggle for less than the $19 dollar markup (what percentage is that?), they will bust my balls for making $700 on a $17k car. and, these are the same people who will go to ford, buy a focus for sticker, with a $2000 dollar rebate. bleh.

Hey where on the s ite does it say if you're an UNDERGRAD you get a 400 rebate?

ask and ye shall receive:
http://www.scionsolutions.com/possess/buy_lease/college_grads_buy.jsp

my gf is in currently enrolled in an accredited graduate program:

-Proof that you have graduated from an accredited four-year college, university, or registered nursing degree program during the last two years or will graduate from such a school/program within the next six months, or
-Proof that you have graduated from an accredited two-year college during the last two years, or
-Proof that you are enrolled in an accredited graduate degree program or have received a degree from an accredited graduate degree program during the last two years.

I have to say, overall I'm generally *very* pleased with the scion buying experience. I'm still not quite sure why the dealer's "score" just happened to be ~60pts lower than when we checked ours, and I doubt that we would've gotten a lower 3rd party rate if we hadn't pulled out a check/loan guarantee that we brought ourselves, but it was SO much better than any other dealer that we went to (and we hadn't even gotten to the financing at other places), that unless things go horribly wrong, our next car will probably still be a scion. 8)

Also, fixed-pricing is perfectly fine with me, don't think of it adding 2.5% onto every car, think of it as all cars selling for ~$700 (ok, $1000 on the higher models) over invoice. A whole lot of cars would get a whole lot cheaper. As to the people complaining of price fixing, WAKE UP! Did you know that its illegal (in the US) to charge different customers different prices for the same thing? Imagine if you walked into a clothes store and the checkout person charged you 2x as the person in front of you b/c you had nice clothes and a rolex watch. There's a ton of ways around it (every car is different, etc), but they have a lot more to stand on than you crying about not being able to haggle your way to a slightly better deal.

By the way, you know that another part of the college grad thing is that you get the tier 1 finance rate right? So, even if your score is in the mid-600 range, you get the better rate. Of course, you can't have derogitory credit, but if you score is only low due to being in the system for a short time and you are a recent grad, you get the rate and the rebate.