I am thinking about turboing, but Greedy's slow process in converting the bB kit to our xB's is getting irritating. So to pose a few questions about doing this "homemade" style:

1. does anyone out there just make a turbo manifold for our engine?

2. if not who makes the best header? (i.e. the most open porting)

3. Possibilities of an equal length manifold (similar to Love Fab or Full Race)

 

Excellent questions that I am anxious to hear the answers to. One more though. Is the stock manifold able to be modified to increase flow with no additional parts, or is it currently the diameter of the connections? That is to say, are there any gaskets that could be widened to increase flow in the current setup?

 

PMed you.

 

I strongly recommend against you doing a homemade turbo job. It's not as easy as you may think and the odds that you'll blow your engine are against you.

Actually, that might be why they are taking some time to build their turbo kit because they may have blown one or two engines in the process....

Turbo charging is a veeerry delicate process. You just don't know where the line is blow the engine. Only the green safe area, or the gray risky area. Because there isn't a lot of history to turbocharging these 1.5L engines (unless it's with different cars) the risk and grey area is even larger.

To give an example, I challenge you to find a 100,000 mile turbo 3rd gen Rx7 that hasn't blown their engine. Most people will tell you how many engines they've gone through and they ALL seem to know how much they cost. I'm amazed at how many of them have gone through 2 or even 3 engines...

A buddy of mine with a PT Cruser was telling me the other day that a number of guys in that marque have been trying to turbo charge it and lots of them have blown the engine.

If you have no background on turbo charging and you want to do it, good luck. It's sure to be either really expensive, frustrating, facinating, fun, or all of the above.

 

of course i have no experience, i just built a 600 whp Civic boosted.

This is what i was thinking of doing:

purchase a burns SS collector IE http://www.burnsstainless.com/MergeC...into1base.html

use 304 or 321 SS

Purchase the 304 or 321 SS piping to create an equal length manifold and use a T3 adaptor plate and use a small 14b or a T3/T04 turbo.

Trust me i know how to build boost cars and this isn't my first home turbo kit in fact this is more like the 10th one i have done.

 

Building your own turbo kit isn't that difficult if you have the right tools/knowledge. Tuning is where you'd run into some issues with the xB.

For a turbo manifold I'd go the simplest/cheapest route...go with a log-style manifold. You can build one for under $50 out of thick cast iron parts (some of which can be found at Home Depot) and it will last you quite a long time. I've seen log manifolds used on some high hp Ford turbo 2.3's, so I wouldn't even waste money on a tubular design manifold which would make a negligible impact on our motors. The only part which may cost you some extra money is the flange. Not sure if anyone offers just the flange for the 1.5l, so you may have to get a machine shop to cut one for you.

I'm not sure if anyone offers any sort of tuning solution for the xB, which is why you may run into some problems.

 

Testy!?!?

 

I could do a log your right. But i think with the way the engine is mounted a tubular may provide better clearance issues fore keeping the turbo off of the firewall. The flange i was going to buy a scrap header, and use that as a guide to cutting a new flange from cast iron as you say or from SS.

For tuning your right, i spoke with Greddy and they informed me the tubo kit for the bB can't be used on the xB for that sole reason. I am assuming i would need something like a E-manage or another costly stand alone to do tuning with. This is just an idea for a winter build project and i would like to have a turbo xB rolling by Spring.

I'm not looking to make a high horsepower car/engine.....just something reliable for roughly 6lbs of boost.

 

no not testy......i know what goes into a turbo kit the better thing to do would have been to ask me if i have ever built one, and not assuming i have no clue how a turbo works

 

Nice! Glad to hear!

Looking forward to what your able to come up with, and also very glad to find another gear head on here as it seems over run with high school kids who've never turned a wrench and are more interested in image than car performance. Not to say that it's right or wrong. Everybody has their personal interests, but glad to find somebody who's got some more similar to mine! :D

I haven't had a chance to check out the link, but was that Civic NOS'd, and was it just drag raced too? That's a lot of hp to pull out of a 4cylinder. How much pressure did you guys run on the dyno to pull that off too? 25psi? 30psi?

 

Not sure how familier you are with the different graphs for turbo's, but if there isn't one for the xB, I have a buddy that's worked with a vendor for a turbo manufacture and got one custom built. Because of the success and performance of that turbo in his car, that vendor now sells it and he gets some of the profits. Just another option..

Being that you want to get it done that quickly, I don't think it would be possible.

Wish I could help out, but I'm no expert on the exhaust manifolding side of turbo charged engines. You want to talk about suspension, optimal setup for the track, or driving lines, that's my specialty.

 

Yea it is nice to see someone else who is interested in making power instead of just having a good looking car.

As for the civic it is a built H22 engine, running a Full Race manifold, and i believe he went with a T66 or something of similar size with roughly 30lbs of boost at the track/dyno and i think he runs 19-23 o n the street. We are currently wokring on another 600 hp civic with a GSR engine, and we just got done building a 400-450 (don't know which as it hasn't been tuned yet) hp civic on a GSR engine.

As you can see i say "we" as i help out at my friends performance shop, this is why i can easily weld together my own exhaust manifold. I know hondas you can go out and piece a kit together, but this is difffent. Your right about tuning though. I haven't really adressed that yet, as i was hoping the E-manage woudl be able to help me out, or possibly haveing to run a motec. We will see as this project continues, and i will keep you guys updated.

 

Since you are not looking for crazy high in the band horsepower, perhaps you should consider a supercharger. I think the Blitz gives like 5 or 6 lbs and is more reliable then a turbo. Power Enterprises has a centrifugal supercharger that might feel a bit more turboish as it spools and gives its power a little higher in the power band like a turbo. I think both of these options are more reliable then a turbo and would give you the type of power you are looking for. The Power Enterprises is a little over $3K and the Blitz is around $2,900.

 

Why would it be any more reliable than a turbo? The HP is no where near as high as a turbo either...

 

Two reasons that come to mind:

1 Superchargers make their power lower in the power-band. This means that your engine runs at lower rpm for an equal amount of boost as a turbo. This means less strain on your engine and forced induction system.

2. There are simply way less parts for a sc. In the vast majority of cases there is no blow-off valve, waste gate, intercooler, down pipe etc. Less parts to screw up and much less tuning is involved. Perhaps I’m wrong, but everything I have ever read that compares sc to turbos indicates that the overall cost of ownership of a sc is lower due to maintenance and reliability.

Sure. You are correct, most turbos make more power then the sc (at high rpms). But from what he said his needs were, one of the sc systems I mentioned above might fit

 

your right about superchargers, but i do have issues with them. I had a jackson racing (eaton style) on 1 of my previous cars, installed "professionally" and boosted my HP very minimally, but did give alot of torque.

When i said not looking for "high hp numbers" i was talking above 400. Like i said 6 or 7 lbs daily (like the greddy kit) and maybe 12 at the strip.....to me that is reliable. to say that a super charger is more reliable than a turbocharger sin't correct, any FI is "un-reliable" Even Nitrous can be un-reliable.

 

Not completely true... roots type s/c's (blitz...) provide boost @ idle. There is MUCH more strain on an engine with a supercharger, as it wastes HP from driving off of the belts.

A centrifugal (PE) is much more efficient than a roots type, although just as laggy as a T/C and not as efficient, remember it runs off a belt... but also has to spin up to speed to create the boost, like a turbo does... turbos just do it off of wasted exhaust gas.

I get full boost @ 2200RPMS with my turbo though... It's got a ton of torque, gear changes aren't near as necessary as before.

And how, might I ask, would any type of FI be any easier to tune than the next?

Oh yea, and on the PE, there is a diverter valve, that recirculates into the intake stream post MAF... just like a turbo car would have... and an intercooler is good option for any centrifugal S/C too... the act of compression creates a huge jump in air temperature, not really the exhaust heat thats doing it...

Also, you can break belts with a S/C... theres alot more moving parts with S/C as well.

Anyhow, I'm not trying to rip on you -- just don't want people to get the wrong idea about things.

P.S. Turbo's on the xA/xB are dangerously close to the firewall and brake lines... atleast mine was. I moved my brake lines... S/C would be an easier fitted option, but I'd only go Centrifugal if I was to do that.

 

Did anyone answer his fukin questions? You people love to talk about the same ____ all day long.

1. Last time I asked REVHARD has the xB manifold jig made so they can make you a manifold...told me $400 when I asked.

2. Only headers out there are DC Sports and EL Prototypes. Both are the same

3. It will cost a ____load of money to do custom headers that are designed properly for what you want. For more info pm kdanie

 

Regarding the custom manifold, you can do it yourself if you got the know how.

A buddy of mine frequetly creates and experiments with different manifold layouts and downpipe routings for his Z twinturbo. Fortunately, he's got a front clip sitting on the side so he check fit as there isn't a lot of room to access the manifold and downpipes on a Z twinturbo. I think he's also looking to possibly market this new design too. My point being, it's possible to do at home.

kshymkiw,
Have you ever experimented with water injection? Specifically Aquamist. I've heard tones of good stuff about it and it only makes sense from a physics standpoint. We installed it on another friends Z Twinturbo with lots of success and successfully raced the Z on numerous race tracks in hot weather in California. That's road courses by the way too, not drag strips. Not sure how much benifit it would be for drag racing because the engine doesn't see the same thermal loads. Probably some.

 

I just thought of a possible affordable solution for tuning:

You could run the Haltech 5th injector system. I know this isn't optimal for many reasons, but at least you'd be safe running at lower boost levels until someone comes up with a more optimal solution.