Ok, I found this from ToyotaNation.com...

Its a good read...

"Rant from a Toyota Tech
/rant on

Well it happened again Saturday, its almost a common occurance, and its something that I wish people would become educated on. I received a work order that read ?Customer states rattle from sunroof area, per customer TSB cover this problem?.

I have been a Toyota technician since April of 1991 but it just amazes me that someone can sit down and read something on the internet and automatically think they know more than I do. Just because you read that there is a TSB out for your vehicle DOES NOT mean it automatically applies to your vehicle. In fact out of all the work orders I receive where the CUSTOMER SAYS the sunroof TSB applies, the TSB actually fixed maby 1 out of 4 of these vehicles. I so wish that you guys would just go and tell the service advisor what your problem actually is and let ME THE TECHNICIAN decide if there is a TSB for your problem or if its something else, FORGET THE TSB?S YOU HAVE READ AND DO NOT EVEN MENTION IT.

Here is where the problem comes in:

Service Advisor?s Job - A good service advisor puts all the information you tell them into the work order for your vehicle, if you mention a TSB they put it in that you mentioned the TSB.

Warranty Administrator?s Job ? A warranty administrator?s job is to get me paid (YES I DO THIS FOR A LIVING). Now a warranty administrator also ensures that I don?t screw warranty by doing extra stuff.

The problem ? The service advisor puts on the ticket that the problem you have is the TSB because you told him it was, now that mean?s I am going to get paid 0 diagnosis time. So if you all knowing TSB readers say your problem is the TSB, all I am getting paid to do is pull your vehicle in and perform that 1 repair and pull your vehicle out. So if your LUCKY maby the TSB did apply to your vehicle, but if it was any of the other COMMON rattle areas in your vehicle your screwed, your vehicle did not get fixed. And the reason it did not get fixed???????????????????????? BECAUSE YOU ALL KNOWING PEOPLE SAID FOR YOURSELF THAT THE TSB APPLIED TO YOUR VEHICLE, YOU SELF DIAGNOSED THE PROBLEM FOR ME, I AM NOT GOING TO GET PAID DIAGNOSIS TIME TO FIND THE RATTLE ON YOUR VEHICLE BECAUSE IN THE WARRANTY ADMINISTRATORS EYES YOU TOLD ME WHAT IT WAS. Now after the repair when I test drive your vehicle to verify that the sunroof is not POPING the way the TSB covers Im done. If I hear the ticking from the sunroof garnish?s or the rattle from the sunroof controls, tough ____, its not getting fixed because YOU SAID THE PROBLEM WAS THE SUNROOF POP AS DESCRIBED IN THE TSB.

Ok, /rant off now. Where this whole post is comeing from is when I was leaveing work Saturday the same guy I was describeing above was calling me an idiot and incompitent technician for not fixing his car. Well buddy when I finished with your vehicle and drove it I heard the sunroof garnish rattle and figured it was probably what you were hearing, but due to your all knowing TSB knowledge I was not going to get paid for repairing it, because the warranty lady would consider it an add on repair. If you would of just simply told the advisor the vehicle was rattleing and pointed out the exact location of the noise your vehicle would have been fixed. You doomed yourself for being a TSB expert.

And its not just him, you internet trolls who try to self diagnose your vehicle cause your own headaches. Just tell me what your problem is, not what you think the cause is, I make my living by doing this. If you self diagnose a TSB that only pays .7 hours there is no way in hell I am going to spend 3 hours fixing the REAL problem and still only get paid .7. But if you would of just simply pointed out your problem your car would have been fixed right the first time.

And on a side note. The Scion Tc?s have more rattles than a coffee can full of rocks, they will never be completely quiet. They have almost no sound deadening material in them, for god sakes the headliner is held up with industrial strength Velcro. If you?re the kind of person that can hear a squirrel fart at 100 yards then Im sorry but you might as well just accept that your Tc is going to make noise, expecially with the sunroof sunshade open.

Here is a link.... http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t50972.html

gooosfraba
GOOOS - FRA - BA

So are you saying tC's are "cheaper" than xA/B?

I think what the gut was trying to say is if you mention a TSB- they will fix your car according to that TSB.- they do not get paid more to diagnose any other problem. Now If you tell them that a certian part of your car is rattlling- they diagnose the problem= they get paid to diagnose the problem=Toyota tech is happy!

If you?re the kind of person that can hear a squirrel fart at 100 yards

I love this one :lol:

Yeah, That is funny!- I thought tC's were supposed to be quite- apparently not!

If you?re the kind of person that can hear a squirrel fart at 100 yards

I love this one :lol:

Yeah, that was a good one.

I hear where the guy is coming from, I used to be a Service Advisor. If someone says "This thing needs a new water pump" You replace it. If it's not the problem, that's their fault. If they say "I'm getting xxx noise. Might be from the water pump", the tech will look for the problem and fix THE problem.

It doesn't hurt to suggest, IMO, but don't make it sound like a diagnosis and give a plan of correction.

As for the tC headliner that is a true statement, I had to take one out one time, velcro is all that holds it. If anyone wonders how they offer the tC for only $17k yet seems like it should cost more that's because they have major cost cutting and use cheap ___ parts. Part of the reason I don't care for them as much as I do xA/xB.

Wouldn't the velco make it easier to "customize"? Cheap ___ parts? Interior parts or engine/powertrain parts?

I think the rant is a bunch of ____ and the people _____ing about not getting paid are being petty. Its not the customers fault your not getting paid even if they bring in the TSB thats a problem with the Corp guru's. Take it up with them. My dad was a mechanic for over 30 years before he passed and I know customers who bring there vehicles in can be misinforned and not know a muffler barring to blinker fluid. But as a tech and the profession thats your job to deal with it period. I know mechanic's don't get nearly paid enough for there work and expertise. Again not the customers fault bring in up in managment etc. By acting like an @ss in the above posts your not helping anyone, and hurting youself more. I can see someone read this and go great there not going to fix a damn thing so I better point out every minor rattle or problem and get it all fixed. At your expense of not being paid. Just my 2 cents.

Ok, I found this from ToyotaNation.com...

Its a good read...

"Rant from a Toyota Tech
/rant on

Well it happened again Saturday, its almost a common occurance, and its something that I wish people would become educated on. I received a work order that read ?Customer states rattle from sunroof area, per customer TSB cover this problem?.

I have been a Toyota technician since April of 1991 but it just amazes me that someone can sit down and read something on the internet and automatically think they know more than I do. Just because you read that there is a TSB out for your vehicle DOES NOT mean it automatically applies to your vehicle. In fact out of all the work orders I receive where the CUSTOMER SAYS the sunroof TSB applies, the TSB actually fixed maby 1 out of 4 of these vehicles. I so wish that you guys would just go and tell the service advisor what your problem actually is and let ME THE TECHNICIAN decide if there is a TSB for your problem or if its something else, FORGET THE TSB?S YOU HAVE READ AND DO NOT EVEN MENTION IT.

Here is where the problem comes in:

Service Advisor?s Job - A good service advisor puts all the information you tell them into the work order for your vehicle, if you mention a TSB they put it in that you mentioned the TSB.

Warranty Administrator?s Job ? A warranty administrator?s job is to get me paid (YES I DO THIS FOR A LIVING). Now a warranty administrator also ensures that I don?t screw warranty by doing extra stuff.

The problem ? The service advisor puts on the ticket that the problem you have is the TSB because you told him it was, now that mean?s I am going to get paid 0 diagnosis time. So if you all knowing TSB readers say your problem is the TSB, all I am getting paid to do is pull your vehicle in and perform that 1 repair and pull your vehicle out. So if your LUCKY maby the TSB did apply to your vehicle, but if it was any of the other COMMON rattle areas in your vehicle your screwed, your vehicle did not get fixed. And the reason it did not get fixed???????????????????????? BECAUSE YOU ALL KNOWING PEOPLE SAID FOR YOURSELF THAT THE TSB APPLIED TO YOUR VEHICLE, YOU SELF DIAGNOSED THE PROBLEM FOR ME, I AM NOT GOING TO GET PAID DIAGNOSIS TIME TO FIND THE RATTLE ON YOUR VEHICLE BECAUSE IN THE WARRANTY ADMINISTRATORS EYES YOU TOLD ME WHAT IT WAS. Now after the repair when I test drive your vehicle to verify that the sunroof is not POPING the way the TSB covers Im done. If I hear the ticking from the sunroof garnish?s or the rattle from the sunroof controls, tough ____, its not getting fixed because YOU SAID THE PROBLEM WAS THE SUNROOF POP AS DESCRIBED IN THE TSB.

Ok, /rant off now. Where this whole post is comeing from is when I was leaveing work Saturday the same guy I was describeing above was calling me an idiot and incompitent technician for not fixing his car. Well buddy when I finished with your vehicle and drove it I heard the sunroof garnish rattle and figured it was probably what you were hearing, but due to your all knowing TSB knowledge I was not going to get paid for repairing it, because the warranty lady would consider it an add on repair. If you would of just simply told the advisor the vehicle was rattleing and pointed out the exact location of the noise your vehicle would have been fixed. You doomed yourself for being a TSB expert.

And its not just him, you internet trolls who try to self diagnose your vehicle cause your own headaches. Just tell me what your problem is, not what you think the cause is, I make my living by doing this. If you self diagnose a TSB that only pays .7 hours there is no way in hell I am going to spend 3 hours fixing the REAL problem and still only get paid .7. But if you would of just simply pointed out your problem your car would have been fixed right the first time.

And on a side note. The Scion Tc?s have more rattles than a coffee can full of rocks, they will never be completely quiet. They have almost no sound deadening material in them, for god sakes the headliner is held up with industrial strength Velcro. If you?re the kind of person that can hear a squirrel fart at 100 yards then Im sorry but you might as well just accept that your Tc is going to make noise, expecially with the sunroof sunshade open.

Here is a link.... http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t50972.html

don't feel alone, Because when i worked @ BMW, most of the M3 owners did the same crap. but we were smarter and looked it up on the comp and it stated before the car was even written up that it didn't qualify for the campaign. so ....

you kids out there stop that! :roll:

I think the rant is a bunch of ____ and the people _____ing about not getting paid are being petty. Its not the customers fault your not getting paid even if they bring in the TSB thats a problem with the Corp guru's. Take it up with them. My dad was a mechanic for over 30 years before he passed and I know customers who bring there vehicles in can be misinforned and not know a muffler barring to blinker fluid. But as a tech and the profession thats your job to deal with it period. I know mechanic's don't get nearly paid enough for there work and expertise. Again not the customers fault bring in up in managment etc. By acting like an @ss in the above posts your not helping anyone, and hurting youself more. I can see someone read this and go great there not going to fix a damn thing so I better point out every minor rattle or problem and get it all fixed. At your expense of not being paid. Just my 2 cents.

he isnt saying that if you dont point out every rattle it wont get fixed. hes saying if you come in and say " x rattles, i would like the tsb work done" that they will only do that. they arent going to search for rattles that arent related to that tsb.

but if you came in and said "x rattles" they will look for that rattle and try to fix it. but if you tell them whats wrong they will fix what you said is wrong. they arent going to search for something you didnt tell them is wrong.

so when you go in just say you hear a rattle and where you hear it. dont try telling them what to fix. let them figure it out like they are suppose to. suggest what you think it might be, but dont tell them what to exactly do.

atleast thats how i understood what he was talking about.

Or you can take a vehicle in and say I don't know what is wrong. Hours later and a ___ load of hourly charges they tell 50 things that are wrong. Half the time what they fix doesn't fix the problem you brought it in for. I am not saying that all shops you take it to will rip you off but there are enough that willl. A customer can't go in and give someone a blank check to go over everything in the entire car. If you are not getting paid take it up with the people who pay you, it's not the customer's fault.

Quit being a little _____ and do your job. Talk to people that have to deal customers: Who the hell is happy with them all the time?

My point was what Naes said in his last remark. I don't think its a bad thing to be an informed consumer. I have been having problems with my air conditioning. I took to toyota they looked and said it was fine. I still noticed a problem of it not getting cold enough. I friend showed me the TSB report I compied it and took it to the dealer. They had no idea about it, and called over the lead scion tech who ownes an xb too. He never heard of it. He mad some adjustments fallowed what the reports siad to try and do, and thus I'm getting a whole new AC system since mine blows at only 64 degrees. I personally don't care for someone to _____ about there pay when the customer has nothing to do with it. Its like hearing anyone else _____ about there job, hey if you don't like it leave and find something else.

However I ignore what customers say because customers are not technicians and have no idea what they are talking about ever anyway. So if the TSB ain't going to fix it I don't do it, its that simple.

Hey, now there is an attitude that will win you lots of customer accolades!

How about when you get a vehicle with the "CD skip" problem? Do you sit there and listen the CD player for the 45 minutes to an hour that it takes for the problem to occur because the customers "have no idea of what they are talking about"? After all, you have to hear it for yourself, right?

I had a "technician" bounce my car back when he couldn't reproduce the CD skip problem. I suppose that he considered me to be incompetant in the recognition of a big blank spot in the music. This did not give me a warm feeling about toyota customer service. In fact, my vehicle won't go back to a Toyota dealer again unless (heaven forbid) it needs another warranty service. Instead, it will go to an independent mechanic (not a high and mighty "technician") who knows the value of listening to the customer.

You should also read the TSBs a bit more carefully. Note that they say:

Applicable Warranty**:
This repair is covered under the Toyota Comprehensive Warranty. This warranty is in
effect for 36 months or 36,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle’s
in-service date.
**Warranty application is limited to correction of a problem based upon a customer’s specific complaint.

Note that it does not say *technician's* complaint! It says *customer's* complaint. The customer, after all, is why you have a job.

George

He has a job because cars are not perfect.
He has a job because cars do have defects.

Are their bad apples in every bunch?

He is simply trying to share the misconception.

Warranty claims have to be justified. Sermanagers and writers are supposed to listen to people claims.

Omer.

He has a job because cars are not perfect.
He has a job because cars do have defects.

Are their bad apples in every bunch?

He is simply trying to share the misconception.

Warranty claims have to be justified. Sermanagers and writers are supposed to listen to people claims.

Omer.

The problem is that the service writers and managers are often the barrier that has to be overcome before needed warranty service is grudgingly provided. Being assumed to be either lying or incompetent doesn't sit well with most customers.

My "CD skip" warranty claim illustrates this well. The "technician", after a superficial trial, said "could not reproduce problem". Not surprising, as this problem occurs about once per disk. The service writer said "If we can't reproduce it, we can't replace the unit". The service manager merely echoed the service writer.

Obviously, this was a catch-22. The "technician" wouldn't spend the time required to verify the problem, and the supposed "dealer policy" was that no repair be made if the problem couldn't be reproduced.

Only when I took my "case" to the service manager's _boss_ did he agree to repair what was a well-known and documented problem. Dealers like to brag about their "speedy customer service", but the procedure at this dealer was obviously one of delay and deny.

So are you saying tC's are "cheaper" than xA/B?

I think what the gut was trying to say is if you mention a TSB- they will fix your car according to that TSB.- they do not get paid more to diagnose any other problem. Now If you tell them that a certian part of your car is rattlling- they diagnose the problem= they get paid to diagnose the problem=Toyota tech is happy!

xA is a $13k car they charge $13k for, xB is a $15k car they charge $15k for, tC is a $21k car they charge $17k for. Trust me they figured out a way to skimp and get that $4000 bucks back out of it.

As for the tC headliner that is a true statement, I had to take one out one time, velcro is all that holds it. If anyone wonders how they offer the tC for only $17k yet seems like it should cost more that's because they have major cost cutting and use cheap ___ parts. Part of the reason I don't care for them as much as I do xA/xB.

Wouldn't the velco make it easier to "customize"? Cheap ___ parts? Interior parts or engine/powertrain parts?

Customize? What are you going to customize about a headliner. The engine in the tC is identical to a Camry engine. But the interior and the rest of it seem cheap to me, I don't like it at all. I think the glass roof was a cool idea but they tried to put so much into a car for so cheap that the execution is just not great. Everyone with a tC says it sounds like their roof is ready to fall off. If you ask me unless they make a car that is near perfect (which would be their goal) but can only make one that is so/so I think its better of them to go all out or nothing at all.

However I ignore what customers say because customers are not technicians and have no idea what they are talking about ever anyway. So if the TSB ain't going to fix it I don't do it, its that simple.

Hey, now there is an attitude that will win you lots of customer accolades!

How about when you get a vehicle with the "CD skip" problem? Do you sit there and listen the CD player for the 45 minutes to an hour that it takes for the problem to occur because the customers "have no idea of what they are talking about"? After all, you have to hear it for yourself, right?

I had a "technician" bounce my car back when he couldn't reproduce the CD skip problem. I suppose that he considered me to be incompetant in the recognition of a big blank spot in the music. This did not give me a warm feeling about toyota customer service. In fact, my vehicle won't go back to a Toyota dealer again unless (heaven forbid) it needs another warranty service. Instead, it will go to an independent mechanic (not a high and mighty "technician") who knows the value of listening to the customer.

You should also read the TSBs a bit more carefully. Note that they say:

Applicable Warranty**:
This repair is covered under the Toyota Comprehensive Warranty. This warranty is in
effect for 36 months or 36,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle’s
in-service date.
**Warranty application is limited to correction of a problem based upon a customer’s specific complaint.

Note that it does not say *technician's* complaint! It says *customer's* complaint. The customer, after all, is why you have a job.

George

Its routine that if a problem cannot be reproduced we send it out the door. Complaining about some sound you heard for half a second a week ago is pointless unless it can be reproduced every single time. How can we pin point something when we hear nothing the customer says "its making a sound from like the front somewhere." That means nothing. If we can't hear a sound what do you want us to do. If it can't be reproduced than it is so minor why even complain or bring it to the dealer.

If a CD was skipping I would possibly take out their CD look at it, see if it looked damaged. Perhaps put in a known good CD and test it. If I hear nothing send it out the door. If it comes back than warranty them a new CD player and call it a day. It's coming out of Toyota's dollar, not the customer or mine so what do either of us care.

People expect Corollas and Echos to be completely perfect. If you want some kind of immpecible driving vehicle than buy a Rolls Royce. In life you get what you pay for.

Last week I had a customer complain about a beeping sound in their MR2. So I drive it and I hear it so I look around and find that it is a pager inside the car that is beeping because it is signaling that it is running out of batteries. Not a problem with the car but I have to deal with it. If you worked a job where you only made commission and if you aren't working you aren't making money would you be happy about dealing with no existent problems. How dare people make assumptions that we are whining and it is not their fault. If I came to your job and wasted your time you would be ____ed to. Being a mechanic is a hard job and it consumes you life, most people in the shop work 56+ hours a week, thats way more than everyone with a normal 9-5 job. It's a hard job and not everyone is cut out for it. Give people the respect they deserve, not everyone is a crook trying to rip out off. Your car is under warranty anyway, your not paying for the repairs.

I wouldn't want that service tech looking at my car - he gets paid extra for diagnostics? I'm skeptical. And then one minute he says people are stupid for assuming it's a TSB repair and then saying he can't fix other noises anyway...

And why is it bad the headliner is held on with industrial strength velcro? I prefer that to glue or staples...how else do you attach a headliner with an all-glass roof?

I wouldn't want that service tech looking at my car - he gets paid extra for diagnostics? I'm skeptical. And then one minute he says people are stupid for assuming it's a TSB repair and then saying he can't fix other noises anyway...

And why is it bad the headliner is held on with industrial strength velcro? I prefer that to glue or staples...how else do you attach a headliner with an all-glass roof?

Glass is only on the outside, it still has a full metal skeleton that goes around the non-sunroof areas and of course the headliner has holes in it where the glass would be. And honestly velcro is the least concern anyone should have about the headliner. I would be more angry about the sunroof sliding out cover thing. I don't understand why they didn't make it power like the C230, couldn't possibly cost that much more.

Okay, already been covered... this guy needs to quit _____ing and do his job.

Customers you want to try and learn more about the car they drive should be able to do so... And if they feel they have a problem related to a TSB they should feel free to research and mention it to the service dept.

Now most people do their best to learn about their cars, but they are not trained techs so of course they might not really know what the talking about. Your job as a tech includes using your own knowledge and skills to fix the problem.


This tech needs to work on his spelling.

Sorry to restate everything... but people who _____ about their jobs ____ me off, they need to deal with it or quit.

And honestly velcro is the least concern anyone should have about the headliner.
Agreed - the point being that the _____y service tech was using that as an example of how supposedly cheap the tC is.

we don't get paid diag. time when stuff like this happens and you do get diag time for warranty repair!
Okay, now I get the picture - and the reason that guys sometimes take in their car three and four times before the problem is "found." You get paid extra for diagnosis. Good for you - bad for the consumer.

i don't want to be general but scion owners are the biggest babies i know, they complain about the stupidest ____ ever especially in this forum.
Okay, that IS true...

thanks to some of you this site is the laughing stock of the internet community.
Oops. Full o' crap again. And you were doing so well... :wink:

Seriously - is a bad attitude required to get a job as a service tech? Cos I know a guy named Nick who might be able to use a job...

How about when you get a vehicle with the "CD skip" problem? Do you sit there and listen the CD player for the 45 minutes to an hour that it takes for the problem to occur because the customers "have no idea of what they are talking about"? After all, you have to hear it for yourself, right?

Its routine that if a problem cannot be reproduced we send it out the door. Complaining about some sound you heard for half a second a week ago is pointless unless it can be reproduced every single time.I see. A problem isn't a problem until the customer can reproduce it on demand. Sorry, but that isn't the way many problems manifest themselves.

That is why professional mechanics are worth the rates they charge. They are capable of diagnosing and repairing intermittant problems. They do this by carefully listening to the customer, checking the vehicle, and through that "6th sense" that is only developed through long experience. Most of these professional mechanics started at dealers but have moved on to become independents with bigger pay and less bureaucratic nonsense.

OTOH, many "technicians" can't diagnose a problem until their noses are rubbed in it. Even when confronted with a known problem (like the CD skip) they cannot seem to figure out that the solution is to just do what the TSB says. The just write the company line ("cannot reproduce") and hope that the next car is something less challenging.

If a CD was skipping I would possibly take out their CD look at it, see if it looked damaged.You can detect a software error visually? Even a superficial skim of the TSB reveals that the problem is a known software defect in the head unit.

Perhaps put in a known good CD and test it.Love it. It's an intermittant problem, so you're going to swap in a "known good" CD to see what? The unit works 99.9% of the time!

If I hear nothing send it out the door.Of course. Just like the "technician" that worked on my car, even thought the TSB number was written on the service order. After all, Toyota just issues TSBs to annoy the "technicians". There can't be any useful information in them!

If it comes back than warranty them a new CD player and call it a day. It's coming out of Toyota's dollar, not the customer or mine so what do either of us care.Great, so why not do it right the first time? Instead, you're going to force the customer to make another appointment to resolve the problem, all because you refuse to believe that a customer might actually know what they are talking about. This is a great way to make sure that customers stay away. "Technicians" don't like come-backs, but customers despise them.

People expect Corollas and Echos to be completely perfect.Funny how Toyota advertisments don't include the phrase "These are cheap cars, so expect them to have problems."

If you want some kind of immpecible driving vehicle than buy a Rolls Royce. In life you get what you pay for.Actually, Rollers aren't all that reliable. However, Rolls mechanics do make house calls.

<"dumb customer" story snipped>

How dare people make assumptions that we are whining and it is not their fault.Wait a minute! Now a car's defects are the customer's fault? One dumb customer with a beeper and suddenly every customer is dumb.
If you don't want people to think that you are whining, then don't whine!

If I came to your job and wasted your time you would be ____ed to. Being a mechanic is a hard job and it consumes you life, most people in the shop work 56+ hours a week, thats way more than everyone with a normal 9-5 job.How many people work a "normal 9-5 job"? Darned few. We all have our time wasted, some by dumb customers, others by stubborn "technicians".

It's a hard job and not everyone is cut out for it. Give people the respect they deserve,That I do. When they deserve it

not everyone is a crook trying to rip out off. Your car is under warranty anyway, your not paying for the repairs.Actually, I already paid for them in the purchase price of the car. Now the only problem is getting that committment honored without red tape worthy of Joseph Heller.

George

Seriously - is a bad attitude required to get a job as a service tech? Cos I know a guy named Nick who might be able to use a job...

For real! this post gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling about taking my Xb to the dealer for service... NOT!

For you techs here, there is something called customer service, it looks like some of you skipped that part in your training. You deal with customers, get over it!
The right thing to do is mention to the customer from the begining that the problem might not be the TSB alone and that only the tech can pin point the problem.

To me the problem is with the service advisors and the poor attitude techs seem to have.

i think you are all blowing this out of proportion. hes just stating that when you take it in for a rattle or anything. dont be specific and say what exactly needs to be fixed. just tell them you hear a rattle and where its coming from.

if you tell them an exact thing to fix to solve the problem, they will only fix that. and they arent going to search for other problems. and what you think it mightve been rattling might not have been.

but because you said fix some exact thing, they cant look for the rattle then because it wasnt what you thought.

I once dropped a car off at the dealer before they opened. On the slip I wrote "Engine pinging at WOT" and put the slip in the box. Later that day they called and said to come pick up my car. When I got there the service writer told me they did not know what "WOT" meant so they did not fix my car.

well, i agree with toaster on this one. the whole point of the rant is to educate us. it makes sense....most of you people are saying that everyone deals with people wasting there time....but most of you probably get paid either hourly or salary. so if a customer comes in and wastes your time, it doesn't matter, you're getting paid regardless. now on the other hand, if this mechanic wastes his time, he doesn't get paid......i'm sure if they docked your pay for an hour of wasting time with a know-it-all customer, most of us would be pretty upset. most customers are alright, he's just talking about one in a handfull. i don't think he meant every customer who comes through....i think he was being specific to a certain kind. comission ruins a lot of stuff......

I just took my car in to get the factory alarm fixxed. for some reason a double pulse wouldn't open all the doors. I go in on a tuesday they look at it for 2 hours and then tell me "We have to get in touch with someone from the company to give us an idea of what may be wrong. these cars are so new we dont have alot of exp. working on them" Okay I'll bite. I reshedule for the next wednsday.
Come in at 9am the next weds. 2pm rolls around they finally tell me my car is done. for 5 hours I sat in the little waiting room. looking though the window at my car. during that time a guy was in for 15 minutes when they first pulled my car into the lift bay. then for 5 minutes just before they were done. the rest of the time they would go into the car for about 15 seconds and then leave again. A major waste of time but oh well they fixed it.

then I go to get in my car. first thing i see is where they left the doors open and touching the vertical beams on the lift while they get in and out. both sides now have scratches at the same spot from where it looks like it was sanded with 50grit paper. then on the rear drivers door at the front edge is a large scratch and chip (which i believe came from a certain mechanics huge keyring on his belt) the first thing the mechanic said when i pointed these out was "Those were there when we got the car" to which i pointed out the fact that the visual inspection the shop manager did did not mention these obvious flaws in the paint yet it did mention "minor rock damage" to my hood (tiny chips you can barely see). The manager said he would take care of the paint damage.

I understand that this car does not belong to this person. however as far as i can tell he didn't take 2 seconds to make sure that they wouldn't happen. I know I used to park cars for a summer job. and while none of those cars were mine and i couldn't be held liable for minor damage sustained thru normal operation ect. I still tried my best to not even leave a wrinkle in the seat. while alot of it was b/c I worked for tips. a good part of it was simple basic respect for other people.

Well here is a reply from the guys original post...

"The sunroof pop TSB
Ok, Id like to apologize for ranting in my last post. The reason for the whole outburst is that Tc's are rattle traps, and they probably always will be. Id really like to take care of people's problems but when things are set up for failure from the very beginning the outcome is never good. I have had several people ask me why I do not go ahead and fix the problem anyway, and the answer to that is simple. The reason I do not go ahead and fix it is because I would not get paid for doing anything other than the TSB the customer mentioned because the warranty lady will consider it a add on repair, and again, this is my job and in order to pay my bills I must get paid for the work I do. Would you go to work and clock out at 2pm and continue to work till 5pm for free?

Since the release of the sunroof pop TSB it seems that our shop has been swamped with people complaining of a sunroof pop / rattle / crackle and saying they know of this TSB and wanting this TSB preformed. Where I get so upset with this whole deal is that, like I said, it has been my experience that only about 25% of the vehicle actually have this problem. That percentage comes form working on 2 - 4 Tc's a day for various reasons, and during test drives I have started to take my own personal tally of how many cars have this noise, and it is rather distinctive once you have heard it a few times.

Im going to let you all in on a easy way to tell if this is your actual problem. It is easy and only takes a pocket screw driver, a torx bit and 15 minutes.

1. Completely open your sunroof and go the drivers side of your sunroof and look at the side railing.

2. Note a 2 piece springing plastic rail that runs the full side length of your sunroof, this rail is attached at the front by a torx bit.

3. Take out the torx screw and gently push the rail in untill you can see and have access to a philips head screw below the mounting point of this rail. You will have to see and access this screw at an angle because the front sunroof mounting frame will be directly above it.

4. Check to see if this screw it tight, use common sence, if you use enough strength with this screw of course you will tighten it more or back it off, your looking to see if it is completely loose, as in requires no effort at all to turn the screw. The screw threads are fine and the metal it screws into is alumnium so it is only supposed to be so tight or else you strip out something.

5. If screw is tight the sunroof pop TSB does NOT apply to your vehicle, the cause of your noise is something else. If the screw is loose then just LEAVE IT BE and set an appointment to get the noise fixed. Since the screw sits at an angle you will probably round off the head tightening it down, I have a special screwdriver to get between the sunroof frame and screw to tighten it for you. But when you set the appointment PLEASE dont say "hey I want the sunroof TSB preformed"........... Just go to the Service Advisor and say you have a rattle from here, and point to the drivers front corner of the sunroof."

You can detect a software error visually? Even a superficial skim of the TSB reveals that the problem is a known software defect in the head unit.

If the CD has a scratch that could be causing the problem. I can't assume the customer took the time to even look at the cd.

Love it. It's an intermittant problem, so you're going to swap in a "known good" CD to see what? The unit works 99.9% of the time!

Its only intermittant because it happens some of the time, maybe it happens during the time the scratch on the CD meets the laser.

Great, so why not do it right the first time? Instead, you're going to force the customer to make another appointment to resolve the problem, all because you refuse to believe that a customer might actually know what they are talking about. This is a great way to make sure that customers stay away. "Technicians" don't like come-backs, but customers despise them.

CD players can cost $600-$1200. I'm not going to put in an expensive piece of equipment if I don't think it will fix the problem.

Funny how Toyota advertisments don't include the phrase "These are cheap cars, so expect them to have problems."

It's reality, get used to it.

Actually, Rollers aren't all that reliable. However, Rolls mechanics do make house calls.

We're not talking reliability, were talking quiet and smooth.



George

but most of you probably get paid either hourly or salary. so if a customer comes in and wastes your time, it doesn't matter, you're getting paid regardless. now on the other hand, if this mechanic wastes his time, he doesn't get paid......i'm sure if they docked your pay for an hour of wasting time with a know-it-all customer, most of us would be pretty upset. most customers are alright, he's just talking about one in a handfull. i don't think he meant every customer who comes through....i think he was being specific to a certain kind. comission ruins a lot of stuff......

I don't know any Toyota dealerships that offer salary for techs, it's all commission. The only people who make hourly pay as in you are there for an hour and you get paid are the guys who change oil and rotate tires, not guys who fix real problems. Time is money when your a tech. This is one reason I don't plan to stay in this buisness for that long, I want a job with reliable income, not "sorry times are slow, heres a check for $100." Thats not cutting it.

And I will be the first to say I'm not a people person. I got in this buisness to work on cars since cars don't talk. But I guess I forgot their owners do.

it looks like it was sanded with 50grit paper. then on the rear drivers door at the front edge is a large scratch and chip (which i believe came from a certain mechanics huge keyring on his belt) the first thing the mechanic said when i pointed these out was "Those were there when we got the car" to which i pointed out the fact that the visual inspection the shop manager did did not mention these obvious flaws in the paint yet it did mention "minor rock damage" to my hood (tiny chips you can barely see). The manager said he would take care of the paint damage.



Now that is BS right there. People should know better than to wear any items on their belts or anything that will scrape the car. Sometimes lifts will have foam padding to protect the door, but sometimes they do not. People who work on the cars need to be aware of this. Personally I think any shop is stupid not to put some foam down to protect the doors.

At our place we have the valets write up all the scratches and everything on a car. I don't think we've ever really had a problem with anyone saying we scratched up their car but I suppose it happens.

I hope they fixed your car to your satisfaction.

Also let me sort of correct any notions some of you might have. First of all I do not think all customers are dumb, most are pretty nice people and are willing to play ball. However like everything in life it is the minority that ruin it for the majority.

Here are 4 specific stories that stick out in my head of customers who are just completely nuts and need to be shot...

-My friend was changing oil on a Celica one time, it was the newer body style Celica. This guy had some kind of Kenwood radio in it and it was the kind that folds up into it self or something like that. Well my friend pulled in the guys car and did the oil change and everything and had the car out in 15 minutes. Later on the guy comes back and starts accusing my friend of stealing the radio out of his car. So my friend was of course like what the hell are you talking about. So they get the shop foreman and everything and go out to see what this guy is talking about. Well the radio was not stolen it was right inside the car but it was folded up inside itself. Well the customer was too dumb to know how to even operate his own radio and soon after they figured out what you push to make the thing fold back out and all was good. But all this BS and accusations of theft because your not smart enough to operate your own radio? :roll:

-One day some woman brought in her Sienna for service of some kind. She probably had one of the lower models Siennas which has less features. So whoever is working on it fixes it and sends it out. Well later on the woman comes back in screaming about how when she came in her car had power seats and now someone had installed manual seats into the car. I mean WTF is this woman thinking, that is ridiculous. A quick check of the database shows exactly what features came on every car and her car did not have power seats on it. Not exactly sure what ever became of this but I hope they showed this person the door.

-One time the guy in the bay next to me had an Avalon. On the ticket it said "after it rains, the driver side fender stays wet after the rest of the car had dried." Does this woman want us to change physics or something in order for her whole car to dry at once. The fact that someone would even complain about something as ridiculous as this makes me really doubt the intellegence of some members of the human race. Once again I'm sure they slapped CND on that bad boy and sent it home. This is a prime example of time wasting.

-There is some crazy broad who comes in with a piece of ____ old ___ 80s Tercel. The car is literally falling apart and she brings it in for things like "door rattling." Well its easy enough to figure out that the 16 year old door panel is in horrible condition and falling apart and it will take a new door panel to fix it. So I write that up but than the foreman tells me do not recommend anything on the car. This is because this woman was one time banned from our dealership because she is nuts. Any time we tell her car it needs something she starts bursting into tears crying and throws a fit and blames us for it. She was banned but kept coming back. So because she is nuts her car is falling apart because no one is really allowed to fix it because she will cry and throw a fit.

So I really hope some of you guys can now understand the BS we have to deal with. Just because you guys are not crazy and maybe are trying to help doesn't mean that all customers are. Some are genuinely nut jobs who would be locked up and shipped off to an island if I was in charge. It is those people who make us dread signing in and seeing what possible nightmare is up there for us to deal with.

You can detect a software error visually? Even a superficial skim of the TSB reveals that the problem is a known software defect in the head unit.

If the CD has a scratch that could be causing the problem. I can't assume the customer took the time to even look at the cd.

It's obvious that you haven't bothered to look at the Scion single disc CD player TSB. You haven't a clue about the factory defect that affects that unit.

Thank you for making my point.

George

Well here is a reply from the guys original post...

"The sunroof pop TSB
Ok, Id like to apologize for ranting in my last post. The reason for the whole outburst is that Tc's are rattle traps, and they probably always will be.
Maybe that IS Nick...

You can detect a software error visually? Even a superficial skim of the TSB reveals that the problem is a known software defect in the head unit.

If the CD has a scratch that could be causing the problem. I can't assume the customer took the time to even look at the cd.

It's obvious that you haven't bothered to look at the Scion single disc CD player TSB. You haven't a clue about the factory defect that affects that unit.

Thank you for making my point.

George


Probably because for one I never had a car come in with this problem, and second I have a 2005 and it only effects 2004s so I have no reason to look up TSBs for no reason unless it applies to my car.

Well, I tried seeing if the TSB applies to my tC...
and I broke the F*CKING head off of the torx screw in doing so!!!
(It took little effort I might add)

http://tinypic.com/fzcjd

Now I have to go down to the stealership to have the problem fixed...
This will teach me for EVER trying things myself...

Hopefully my warrenty will take care of this one...

Well, I tried seeing if the TSB applies to my tC...
and I broke the F*CKING head off of the torx screw in doing so!!!
(It took little effort I might add)

http://tinypic.com/fzcjd

Now I have to go down to the stealership to have the problem fixed...
This will teach me for EVER trying things myself...

Hopefully my warrenty will take care of this one...

Just say something isn't right with the sunroof and let them find the broken bolt head. They will probably think the sunroof broke it or something and just replace the whole thing.

Just say something isn't right with the sunroof and let them find the broken bolt head. They will probably think the sunroof broke it or something and just replace the whole thing.

Nog, dont admit to fault. I had the cheap plastic rear seat lock release break on me when I was trying to take my gearbag out(the strap got caught on it) I told the shop it came off in my hand when i went to lower the seat.

Problem solved!

I brought it to the dealership earlyer and they fixed it, no questions asked...

That was painless.

i'm pretty glad my xb doesnt have mad problems. i am probably gonna take it in for the a/c tsb tho not too cold. kinda scared some _______ might just break ____ in the process. i mean not being paid well or being interested in the works can easily lead to not giving a ____. and then breaking ____.