Is there really that much of a difference between using factory spark plugs vs. aftermarket spark plugs?? I just want to know if I should even bother paying extra for the "other" stuff.

yes, there is a difference, not a huge difference, but you get what you paid for. don't cheap out on your spark plugs, without them, the whole process of an gasoline powered internal combustion engine would be a pipe dream.

factory or OEM plugs are fine, platinum and iridium are better.

Thanx for the info. I'll probably go with the iridium or the platinum then.

I have found these platinum plugs are the best value.
Buy at Rockauto.com for 2.41 each.

NGK Part # 7090 {GP-Series #BKR5EGP}

http://ngk.com/ has a great website.

I replace every 12 months. - I do approx 35,000 - 45,000 miles a yr. When I replaced my stock plugs the first time - I was suprised that the electrodes were quite worn on a couple of them. Never really seen this in any other auto applications.
These plugs have been great - and a no brainer to replace once a year fro $10 and 10 minutes in time.
Personally I don't think the iridium are worth 3x the price on our little 1.5 engine.
Hope this helps.

wow, 2.41 isn't bad at all. i'll probably take this route.

I have found these platinum plugs are the best value.
Buy at Rockauto.com for 2.41 each.

NGK Part # 7090 {GP-Series #BKR5EGP}

http://ngk.com/ has a great website.

I replace every 12 months. - I do approx 35,000 - 45,000 miles a yr. When I replaced my stock plugs the first time - I was suprised that the electrodes were quite worn on a couple of them. Never really seen this in any other auto applications.
These plugs have been great - and a no brainer to replace once a year fro $10 and 10 minutes in time.
Personally I don't think the iridium are worth 3x the price on our little 1.5 engine.
Hope this helps.

Does the ol' "butt dyno" feel like your getting more power? Or do you just feel these last longer than the stock plugs?

no power gains.....I run iridiums

no power gains.....I run iridiumsExactly right! Run the NGK Irridiums. Get the part number for the bB and not the xB. They come pregapped at .044. You will se better MPGs, smoother idle and more power. Also remember to reset youe ECU by pulling the fuse for 10 minutes after the plug install. Good luck and let us know how you like the results?

Here is the link to the plugs for 30 bucks shipped.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4-NGK-IRIDIUM-IX-BKR5EIX-11-Spark-Plugs-5464_W0QQitemZ130197865833QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130197865833

I paid a lot more than that for my Denso's

Running Denso Iridiums in my Supra, gotta admit it starts up in 1-2 less cranks in the extreme cold now.

no power gains.....I run iridiumsExactly right! Run the NGK Irridiums. Get the part number for the bB and not the xB. They come pregapped at .044. You will se better MPGs, smoother idle and more power. Also remember to reset youe ECU by pulling the fuse for 10 minutes after the plug install. Good luck and let us know how you like the results?


which fuse is it?

Here is the link to the plugs for 30 bucks shipped.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4-NGK-IRIDIUM-IX-BKR5EIX-11-Spark-Plugs-5464_W0QQitemZ130197865833QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130197865833

Thanks for the link, just bought some. been wanting to do them for awhile. Hopefully they will help out my little idle issue i'm having.

no power gains.....I run iridiumsExactly right! Run the NGK Irridiums. Get the part number for the bB and not the xB. They come pregapped at .044. You will se better MPGs, smoother idle and more power. Also remember to reset youe ECU by pulling the fuse for 10 minutes after the plug install. Good luck and let us know how you like the results?


which fuse is it?


Bumping, I would like to know also. Thanks....

It's the AM2 fuse in the engine fuse compartment.
15 Amp, fourth down from the top in the middle column of fuses. There should be a diagram on the inside of the fuse block cover with fuse labels and location.

It's the AM2 fuse in the engine fuse compartment.
15 Amp, fourth down from the top in the middle column of fuses. There should be a diagram on the inside of the fuse block cover with fuse labels and location.

Thanks man, appreciate it.

It's the AM2 fuse in the engine fuse compartment.
15 Amp, fourth down from the top in the middle column of fuses. There should be a diagram on the inside of the fuse block cover with fuse labels and location.

Much appreciated my friend!

It's the AM2 fuse in the engine fuse compartment.
15 Amp, fourth down from the top in the middle column of fuses. There should be a diagram on the inside of the fuse block cover with fuse labels and location.




Incorrect, pulling the AM2 fuse will NOT reset the ECM, it does not terminate the battery source.

The battery source is supplied through the EFI fuse, only pulling that fuse or battery dissconnect can reset the ECM.

My mistake, the AM2 goes through the ignition switch to turn on the ECU, but the EFI is the one providing primary battery power. It's been awhile since I had to pull the fuse.

no power gains.....I run iridiumsExactly right! Run the NGK Irridiums. Get the part number for the bB and not the xB. They come pregapped at .044. You will se better MPGs, smoother idle and more power. Also remember to reset youe ECU by pulling the fuse for 10 minutes after the plug install. Good luck and let us know how you like the results?

I purchased a set and installed mine last week. Itook the car on a beach trip this week and ended up averaging about 35.4 mpg with aggressive driving. Probably wouldn've been a lot better if I drove conservitively.

Cool, I was thinking about Iridiums or the bosch 2. It sounds like the Iridiums will be going in to zzz ride this weekend.

Got me a set of Iridium IX. They are gaped at .032 so after I go gap them at .044I will drop them in to day. I asked for the dB's but Kragens did not have any.
$6.4ish a pop. Ouch.

Got me a set of Iridium IX. They are gaped at .032 so after I go gap them at .044I will drop them in to day. I asked for the dB's but Kragens did not have any.
$6.4ish a pop. Ouch.

Thats a better deal than ebay. I paid about the same and you'll definitely notice a difference. I avg between. 33.8 and 35.4 mpg on my last two fillups which was better than the 26-29 I was getting before.

Ok so i popped in my NGK's and definetly notice a differnce. My old plugs had 43k on them and they were shot to hell. The miss that I had gone compleatly. Way smoother idle and excelleration. More power?? hard to say, but definetly runs better. Would they run any better than stock ones brandnew, got me, but I am happy. Ill keep you posted about gas millage.

Well with the Iridiums in I definetly say that I need to run at least 89 octane for her to run proper. With 87 I seem to be sluggish off the bottom 89 fixed that. 91 octane runs even better yet I can feel the pull more when excellerating. With the stock plugs and I ran 91 octane not to much differnce, but definetly with the NGK's. Maybe Ill try octane booster with the 91 on my next tank. For the most part it seems as though my engine light is staying off alot more now. I still have it coming on now and again. No differnce in the way it runs though.

What's the part # for the NGK Iridiums?

http://tijil.org/xB_NGK_plugs.gif

The part number you need is BKR5EIX-11. They are suppossed to come already pre gapped at .044.
The plugs you want are for the bB not the xB. The xB ones will come with a smaller gap. These plugs work best at .044. I actually had to pull mine out and re gap them cause I got the wrong ones. :doh:

Here is a link for a set of 4 for just under 30 bucks shipped.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-Truck-Parts-Accessories__New-4-NGK-Iridium-IX-Spark-Plugs-BKR5EIX-11_W0QQitemZ150255280100QQadnZCarQ20Q26Q20TruckQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQadiZ2865QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item150255280100&

That would be the same plugs that are used in the Prius...

http://tijil.org/NGK_Prius_plugs.jpg

Cool, thanks Tomas. I had no idea the Prius used that same plug.

yes, there is a difference, not a huge difference, but you get what you paid for. don't cheap out on your spark plugs, without them, the whole process of an gasoline powered internal combustion engine would be a pipe dream.

factory or OEM plugs are fine, platinum and iridium are better.

iridium plugs are worthless on our small engines.......if you had a turbocharger maybe, but our engines dont burn like the cars that need iridium, its a waste of money. pay the extra for for platinum, but your best bet are some normal bosch plugs

yes, there is a difference, not a huge difference, but you get what you paid for. don't cheap out on your spark plugs, without them, the whole process of an gasoline powered internal combustion engine would be a pipe dream.

factory or OEM plugs are fine, platinum and iridium are better.

iridium plugs are worthless on our small engines.......if you had a turbocharger maybe, but our engines dont burn like the cars that need iridium, its a waste of money. pay the extra for for platinum, but your best bet are some normal bosch plugsYou have ZERO CLUE. Bosch's are about the most useless plug on the market. :rofl:
Please stop spewing BS PLEASE!!!

I will repaeat again as I have many time..I have Denso Iridium plugs in my car for 67,XXX miles....no need for different gas, no more hp, no more tq, no more mpg...just more durability

i have denso iridiums and msd super conductor wires and i noticed better throttle response and gained about 2-3 mpg in the city in my '04 xb

yes, there is a difference, not a huge difference, but you get what you paid for. don't cheap out on your spark plugs, without them, the whole process of an gasoline powered internal combustion engine would be a pipe dream.

factory or OEM plugs are fine, platinum and iridium are better.

iridium plugs are worthless on our small engines.......if you had a turbocharger maybe, but our engines dont burn like the cars that need iridium, its a waste of money. pay the extra for for platinum, but your best bet are some normal bosch plugsYou have ZERO CLUE. Bosch's are about the most useless plug on the market. :rofl:
Please stop spewing BS PLEASE!!!

i was just stating that factory plugs are just fine for engines, weather bosch or toyta or bobs brand just normal plugs work best, the rest is a waste of money the only one here spewing BS is you and your idiotic words.... let me guess you have splitfire plugs in your ride right?? idiot

Boys! Boys! Be nice! :no:

:lol:

yes, there is a difference, not a huge difference, but you get what you paid for. don't cheap out on your spark plugs, without them, the whole process of an gasoline powered internal combustion engine would be a pipe dream.

factory or OEM plugs are fine, platinum and iridium are better.

iridium plugs are worthless on our small engines.......if you had a turbocharger maybe, but our engines dont burn like the cars that need iridium, its a waste of money. pay the extra for for platinum, but your best bet are some normal bosch plugsYou have ZERO CLUE. Bosch's are about the most useless plug on the market. :rofl:
Please stop spewing BS PLEASE!!!

i was just stating that factory plugs are just fine for engines, weather bosch or toyta or bobs brand just normal plugs work best, the rest is a waste of money the only one here spewing BS is you and your idiotic words.... let me guess you have splitfire plugs in your ride right?? idiotNO splitfires and Bosches are a JOKE.. Irridiums ARE the best thing going for the xBs right now. Do some reasearch before shooting off your mouth, Please? :pray: There are plenty of threads where people have listed how much better the Irridiums perform. Smoother idle, longer life, better throttle response... the lists go on.
Sorry Tomas :doh: "some peoples kids"

How are you running diff wires when you have single coils going to the spark plug and i put NGK G power and i gap them at 32 is what the owners manual says to gap them i de gaped them from 44. Just wondering why you are running 44 gap when the manual says to gap them at 32?

The only plugs I know of that need to be gapped at .044 are the Irridiums. The bB runs a .044 gap.

what is the diff from the bB then the xb they have the same motors right

Both have the 1NZ-FE engine (an option on the bB).

i still dont get it why does the cars manual say gap them at 32 not 44 lol what is the diff and what is better.

I do not know this is the reason, but it certainly could be...

Cars in the US are nortoriously less well maintained by the "average owner" than cars in many other parts of the world, and plugs are often not changed until the engine refuses to run well.

In order to ensure that the vehicle meets EPA requirements in the US for as long as possible, many minor "adjustments" are made to the specs.

A plug gapped to .032 will continue to ignite the air/fuel mixture for much longer without maintenance than a plug with .044 gap, since as the electrode materials erode, the gap gets progressively wider, and a plug starting at .044 is .012 closer to failing because of the gap increasing.

.032 simply prevents misfires for longer mileage than a gap of .044, thus ensuring the emissions meet emission requirements for more miles, and folks won't be back into the dealership for emission test failures during the warranty period.

Other than that, I really don't know of any other reason we have plugs with broader electrodes and closer gaps than the JDM standard.

Beyond that, "which is better" is a toss-up. A wider gap can give a larger spark surface and therefore a slightly broader flame front in the combustion chamber, which under SOME circumstances can marginally affect power delivery, but for the most part, there is really little difference in day to day performance.

(A narrower gap will fire under a much wider range of fuel qualities and air/fuel mixtures given the same electrode shape and size. Pointier/narrower electrodes will generally fire over a little wider gap because the sharper edges make it easier to strike a spark. Iridium plugs have pointy electrodes and are a bit more trustworthy over wide gaps than more blunt electrodes.)

I could go on about this for several pages, but what it boils down to is use what ya want to as long as your plug is in the proper heat range...

YMMV, IANAL, and all the rest of that stuff... :)

kool know i understand lol Thanks a lot man for the info.

what is the diff from the bB then the xb they have the same motors rightRight. I had originally installed my irridiums at .032 and couldn't notice a difference from the stockers. Pulled them out and gapped them to .044. That did the trick. Gives a hotter spark, smoothed out the idle and I did it right before a long road trip. During that trip I recorded my best ever mpg of 37.5. Love my Irridiums and feel they were worth every dollar spent. Plus they will last for a long time unlike stock replacements. :lalala:

hey Tomas , Long time no post fer me ( I got tired of a fewpeeople with that bad attitude)

But For those that are gapping at .44instead of the .32, Ask Tomas about the actual changes thathappen with the wider gap.
Like the change in timing because the wider gap has the coils building a larger charge to reach over the gap ( takes lomger for the charge to build up enough ummmppph to jump the gap). Even in a car that has an ECU that controls the spark.

This may explain why peoples cars run smoother, quicker and the like.

Now back to my swamp to let the "boys" play ( hope they play nice)

Hey, Froggie, long time!

You are correct that larger gaps delay the start of the arc due to the needed higher voltages, but in the high pressure environment of the compressed gasses at the time, the difference in timing in our fairly relaxed engines is probably almost unnoticeable.

It is there, but unless one is running near red line the timing difference this imposes might not even be measurable UNLESS the gap is near the limit that a particular coil can force an arc across.

Unless one has a "weak" coil or has very low source voltage (cold morning starting? weak battery?), the amount this retards the timing is very small, but still possibly enough to smooth out some idle problems.

(Keep in mind that the opposite is also true - a shorter gap advances the spark a small amount, and could roughen an engine... or sharper edges on the gap, requiring lower voltage difference to initiate the arc would also advance the timing a bit.)

Overall, though, our stock engines are relaxed enough and these changes are small enough that I'm not all that sure most folks would notice most of the time...

(This reminds me - I need to start paying attention to my ignition timing on my ScanGauge II so I will have a baseline for when I change plugs in the near future, just so I can see if there is a difference from new Iridiums as opposed to the OEM plugs Vanilla is running now.)

So it would be better for me to gap them out to .44 for better gas milage and better response LOL because i always kinda like to get on it and get the most out of it LOL. Just wondering!!! Thanks for all the info because i am learning more about the xb now LOL!!!!

So it would be better for me to gap them out to .44 for better gas milage and better response LOL because i always kinda like to get on it and get the most out of it LOL. Just wondering!!! Thanks for all the info because i am learning more about the xb now LOL!!!!I would if I were you. If you don't the only real gains you'll see is longer plug life. I like the smoother idle quality and increase mpgs with ever so slight performance increase. :clap:

LOL so i am going to gap them .44 and let yall know in a week or when i notice a change LOL and if i like it better LOL!!!

Cool, just be real careful with those fragile tips.

ya true lol i might just wait till friday to just get new plugs that come gaped at .44 i degap the ones i have in there now LOL because i thought they were suppose to be gaped at .32 because of what the manual said LOL!!!

It is generally considered poor form to try to re-gap iridium plugs because they are mechanically very fragile. It can be done, but be SURE not to damage the electrodes AND to make sure the alignment of them is exactly the same before and after.

As to just making the gaps .044, remember that even though it should work just fine and not cause any serious problems to create a slightly larger arc that is slightly delayed from stock settings (though in moving from the blunt OEM to the sharp iridium electrodes pulls the timing back toward stock) there COULD be problems...

If any of your coils (one per plug) are weak, that plug may or may not fire reliably. If any of your wiring or connections to a plug's coil are less than optimum, that could also cause reliability problems.

Remember that a gap of .032 is mostly there to allow the system as a whole to keep working even is some parts of it are not performing as they should. (The gap is short to let the average American not maintain their car as is typical...)

A .032 gap will cover for a weak coil or poor connection where a gap of .044 can expose the problem.

Running a wider gap, even with a plug intended for a wider gap (like the iridium) can expose existing problems you didn't know you had.

EVERYTHING has to be working right when you start making adjustments more toward the edge of the range.

I'll be changing plugs a little later this summer, and I will be moving toward .044 iridium. I'm hoping that the rest of my stock system is up to the stress. :)

Random thought: I wonder if the Prius coils are the same as ours, or if they are designed to produce a higher voltage? If they are different in that way, I wonder if they might be a reasonable move for some folks who really push their engines hard.

I don't see why the Prius coils would be different. I could never understand why they went with the smaller gap than the bB but thanks for letting us know the possible downside Tomas. You rock for sure!

The Prius uses the same base engine that's in the xA/xB Classic, with some changes - one of the changes is they use the iridium plugs gapped at .044, which is why I'm wondering if possibly they have a beefed up coil spec... :)

Check and find out please. I don't see why the xBs would have gotten watered down coils instead of the same exact ones the Prius and bB got.

...same part number.

Good to know then. The coils should have no problem with the .044 gaps.

Hey guys what’s up? Hey Tomas your the man!!!! real good info in her about plugs, you really got technical with us :clap: :clap: but I have one more question to add to the millions asked: im boosting 7 lbs with a greedy kit, I hear I should run colder plugs, can you recommend me a plug to go with and the gap I should put it at

Sorry, not knowledgeable at all about forced induction, so you really need to check with someone who knows. :)

Don't want to mislead you.

My guess would be one range colder and use NGK Irridiums gapped at .044. But that is just an educated guess.

i've got a set of factory spark plugs for the xB already lying around the house here somewhere. i think i'm just gonna throw those in for now and maybe the the NGKs a little later.

so witch is the # that changes in the part number to make them a step colder

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/overviewp2.asp?nav=31000&country=US

I bought the NGK- Iridium-IX-BKR5EIX-11 plugs and they came gapped at .038, not .044. Didn't want to mess them up so I left them alone! What kind of anti-seize, if any, do you use? Thanks

I've always used a VERY light application of a high-temp copper based anti-seize grease.

I also like to put a light coat of silicone dielectric grease on the ceramic portion of the plug.

Don't use too much of either, just a light smear...

Thanks alot Tomas, that's what i'll use! Gerry

I always just apply a light coat of oil to the threads.

i am useing the ngk g power and gapped at 41 and man i love it no bogs when the ac on and runs and idles so smmoth LOL Thanks guys for all the info and ____!!! LOL!!! I put the plugs in last night and drive it this morning and man i was like damn and even my wife sitting in the passangers seat said she thought it had a smoother accel and drive smoother lol!!

Glad to hear it, CC! :D

S**t i even told my friends that drive them to switch LOL!!! Is there any other things we can change a little to run faster or better or smoother for cheap?

Never heard of G Power NGKs. Why not get the Irridiums?

Just so you folks will have some idea of what the various NKG plugs that will work in the xB look like, these are all the NGK plugs for this particular engine (the -11 at the end means .044 gap).

The BKR5ES is the OEM xB Plug (.032 gap).

Those shown are all the SAME heat range.

http://tijil.org/NGK_plugs.jpg

The IFR5T11 plug is the OEM iridium plug for the Prius in the US, and the BKR5EIX-11 is the usual replacement for the Prius...

The BKR5EIX-11 is the one most often used as the "premium" plug in the xB Classic, but any of these should work in a pinch. :)

Enjoy!

(The "G-Power" platinum plugs have an almost identical design to the top of the line, and expensive, iridium plugs, but generally cost about one quarter as much... Platinum lasts almost as long as iridium...)

very nice!

Tom...you always have way too much info lol. I need to buy some plugs this fall and had to skim the past 4 pages

anybody have a link for a good deal on the .044 NGK irridiums?

Best prices I've seen are just about $7 each at "Parts America" (Schucks Auto in my area, Checker or Kragen elsewhere).

Look for 2005 Prius plugs at most any decent retailer and you will find 'em...

For example:
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductList.aspx?PartType=960&PTSet=A

quick answers, awesome insight- you've got better service that most retailers

Tom...you always have way too much info lol. I need to buy some plugs this fall and had to skim the past 4 pages

anybody have a link for a good deal on the .044 NGK irridiums?Here is a current link for them on ebay for 31 bucks shipped.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-Truck-Parts-Accessories__4-NGK-IRIDIUM-IX-BKR5EIX-11-Spark-Plugs-5464_W0QQitemZ130250013114QQadnZCarQ20Q26Q20TruckQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQadiZ2865QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130250013114&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C65%3A1%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

(I like ordering from PA on-line because I can get them at their best
on-line price, then run over to my local store to pick 'em up with no
shipping...) :lalala:

nothing like cheating the system a lil hahaha

(I like ordering from PA on-line because I can get them at their best
on-line price, then run over to my local store to pick 'em up with no
shipping...) :lalala:Yeah but then there is the tax instead of shipping. :lalala:

nothing like cheating the system a lil hahaha

Nope! That's actually an ordering option they not only offer, but PUSH: Order on line and pick up locally. :)

(I like ordering from PA on-line because I can get them at their best
on-line price, then run over to my local store to pick 'em up with no
shipping...) :lalala:Yeah but then there is the tax instead of shipping. :lalala:

I'd rather pay a couple bucks tax than usually more for shipping - and besides I have the product TODAY, not next week. :lalala:

My biggest problem is I can never find what I want/need locally. I don't mind waiting to get stuff and most the time it's cheaper to pay shipping than tax for me. Sales tax here is almost 10 % but we don't have state income tax.

the ngk g power platnium are like the BKR5EGP plugs the tip looks the same and all!!! It has the platnium tip at the top of it LOL!!

Uh, the BKR5EGP IS the G-Power plug... :P

This thread is so helpful! I would like to get those G-Power plugs with .032 gap. Could anyone tell me how much torque I should use to put it on? It seems nowhere to find that. Another thread talks about 13 lbs. But I am not sure since NGK has a torque range for the G-Power. Thanks in advance!

Uh, the BKR5EGP IS the G-Power plug... :P

Click here for the Scion Doc on that... (http://scionlife.org/Scion_Docs/2004_xB_Shop_Manuals/2004%20xB%20Repair%20Manual/03%20-%20Service%20Specifications/ignition/torque40.pdf)

The rest of the manual is at Scion Docs in my signature...

:bow: :bow: :bow:

Thanks much Tomas!

Click here for the Scion Doc on that... (http://scionlife.org/Scion_Docs/2004_xB_Shop_Manuals/2004%20xB%20Repair%20Manual/03%20-%20Service%20Specifications/ignition/torque40.pdf)

The rest of the manual is at Scion Docs in my signature...

If someone were shopping for new plugs the best way to go would be NGK Irridiums. They come gapped at .044 and will last for more than 100K. :lalala:

If someone were shopping for new plugs the best way to go would be NGK Irridiums. They come gapped at .044 and will last for more than 100K. :lalala:

Unless you turbo'd , supercharged , or juiced. Those application would call for some thing different , especially juiced ( nitrous does not like platinum nor iridium plugs)

If someone were shopping for new plugs the best way to go would be NGK Irridiums. They come gapped at .044 and will last for more than 100K. :lalala:

Unless you turbo'd , supercharged , or juiced. Those application would call for some thing different , especially juiced ( nitrous does not like platinum nor iridium plugs)True, but hopefully people that are boosted would most likely know that already. :lalala:

I am not sure if I would go with Iridium since people are recommending .044 gap which is not same as the original gap. I think I will go conservative this time. I am very happy with all my box offers me now. The ngk platinum G power should be good if it lasts at least 60k.

If someone were shopping for new plugs the best way to go would be NGK Irridiums. They come gapped at .044 and will last for more than 100K. :lalala:

The .044 gap is what the factory recommends for the bB and the Prius which has the same motor. Mine runs better with the larger gap/Irridium plugs. Just to let ya know.

Thank you! Did you set the torque as 13 ft/lb when you put your Iridiums in? With Iridium, why do you have to reset the ECU (in your earlier post)? Do I have to reset that if I go with .032 platinum?

I go 1/2 turn after finger tight. It sets the proper torque without over squishing the seal. I just reset the ECU so it can relearn how to run with the new parts. Everytime you do anything to the engine it's a good idea to let the ECU learn the changes.

The ECU will eventually learn the changes new parts make, but reseting it to factory (pulling the EFI fuse for 30 seconds or more) forces it to learn a bit more quickly as it doesn't have to "unlearn" the settings from old parts. No big deal, either way will work. :)

Thank you so much guys! Maybe I shall try the Iridium this weekend. It is affordable considering I will do it myself. Here is something I learned from this thread:

1. change the plugs when the engine is cold.
2. keep the plug holes clean.
3. use anti seize
4. use correct torque (either the 1/2 turn technique or 13 ft/lb as I found on the Scion Doc)
5. reset the ECU by pulling the forth fuse in the center column)

I won't be aware of these if I don't read this thread.

Sounds like you have it down, Steven! :)

Thanks Tomas and Jeff! I will let you know how everything goes this weekend.

Please do Steven.

I got the Iridium plugs ($30 from checkers) in my car.

They came with .037 pre-gapped. I have to make it to .044 before put them in. Everything works just fine. I have to drive it around and test it out.

Thanks guys!

Please do Steven.

Just pulled the original plugs from Vanilla (2005 xB AT, purchased JAN05, 21000 miles) and the plugs looked actually quite good, but ALL were uniformly gapped, from the factory, at .044 ...

http://tijil.org/old_plug_gap.jpg

That is really bizarre.

Anyway, I put in new plugs (BKR5EGP @ .040, $11.96/4) and saved the OEM plugs as emergency spares.

Reset ECU, so it will be a bit before it sets itself for the new plugs, but idle is a bit smoother, probably due to the crisper firing from the smaller, very sharp edged tip electrode.

We'll see how the numbers settle in after the ECU sorts itself.

{Damned tpyos!}

... I put in new plugs (BKR5EGP @ .040) ... What kind of plugs are they? With a gap that big, are they Iridiums? But Iridiums would be either NKG Iridium BKR5EIX or NKG Iridium BKR5EIX-11 which are pregapped to 44 thousandths.

... I put in new plugs (BKR5EGP @ .040) ... What kind of plugs are they? With a gap that big, are they Iridiums? But Iridiums would be either NKG Iridium BKR5EIX or NKG Iridium BKR5EIX-11 which are pregapped to 44 thousandths.Yeah, good question. What are they Tomas?

They are the platinums from NGK with the same design as the iridiums, but about 1/4 the price.

SEE: http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=3689115#3689115

Should be good for the next 50-60,000 miles... :)

NGK says to gap BKR5EGP in Scion xb's to .032 :eyes:

Tomas , let us know what your Ign timing goes to with them gapped like that (.044)
I know you got the SG in Vanilla. 8)

NGK says to gap BKR5EGP in Scion xb's to .032 :eyes:

Tomas , let us know what your Ign timing goes to with them gapped like that (.044)
I know you got the SG in Vanilla. 8)The .032 gap is BUNK. The other cars that use this motor are gapped to .044 (bB, Ist and Prius).

... The .032 gap is BUNK....
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/vintagefortytwo/xB%20Miscellaneous/xB_NGK_plugs.gif
http://tinyurl.com/ch4anc

I had to switch out my plugs for my standard maintenance schedule... I went with the NGK BKR5EIX-11 with the .044 gap. I've been quite happy over the results.

(Are we going to start this whole discussion all over again? This has been covered...)

we all know ppl won't read the whole 6 pages worth of this thread

(Are we going to start this whole discussion all over again? This has been covered...)Unfortunately it sounds like vintage42 wants to. :doh:
Run .032 if ya want to but it's not the best thing to do.

(Are we going to start this whole discussion all over again? This has been covered...)Unfortunately it sounds like vintage42 wants to. :doh:
Run .032 if ya want to but it's not the best thing to do.

Toyota Engineers know what they want. The biggest difference between the bb and the xb is that people take better care of their cars in Japan maintenance wise , know fact to Toyota Engineers. That is why the gap is different for the bb. In the USA people have a tendency to go farther before doing a tune up or maintenence on their cars. With a smaller gap ( .032 vs. .044) you can go longer and keep emissions and reliabilty a bit longer . That is the biggest reason for the difference.

The Prius on the other hand doesn't see the motor run as often , remember it is a hybrid with the main focus on the electric motor, so the plugs don't see , in theroy , as many run hours per mile. Hence the larger gap.

People can run any gap they want , we are lucky enough to have a motor that will run equally as well with either gap. But, with the same timing? length of service time? MPG ? Still working on getting real world data to show either or none as the best.
Seat of the pants or dyno info will help.

Oh and bB2NER , don't call bunk unless you can prove it one way or another with other than your say so, the engineers sorta know what they need and want. This isn't meant as an attack on you , but you did call it. just Chill

I know, but am tired of people trying to tell others what to do. If the xB had points and a standard ignition I could see setting the plugs to .032 but it doesn't so why would you unless you wanted to go forever on stock plugs?
I called it that because my xB runs like junk with the small gap. Now that it's set right it runs top notch. Plus with Irridium plugs I know the gap will stay set for a long time.

all the hybrids i've been seeing are being driven on the highways and not in stop and go driving so it kind of defeats the battery driven motors

all the hybrids i've been seeing are being driven on the highways and not in stop and go driving so it kind of defeats the battery driven motors

This is where they are at an advantage , they can cruise a long time , on the highway, without needing the gas power. When driven they use the electric first , the internal cumbustion engine come on when needed for extra power or to recharge the batteries. In theory. Some people think they can drive it like a gas powered car and see advantages.

Bb2Ner , your the one that sounds like your telling people what to do by saying that a .032 gap is bunk..

If you would like, if you happen to have an SG hooked up , send me , or post up what it says as to ING timing at idel and at cruise. And as many points as you wish. I am researching the differences of plug gap , and type to the timing. Any thing I find I will share, weither it proves or disproves my theory.

(Are we going to start this whole discussion all over again? This has been covered...)Unfortunately it sounds like vintage42 wants to. :doh:
Run .032 if ya want to but it's not the best thing to do.
I followed the whole discussion back when it developed a year ago in 2008, and copied and saved excerpts. The discussion was about how Iridium plugs could use the .044 gap, and so I bought a set of NKG Iridium BKR5EIX-11 (pregapped to .044) for my xB.

In 2006 Tomas posted that only the Denso Iridiums could use the .044 gap:
“... as stated here and elsewhere, the Denso Iridiums, AND ONLY THE DENSO IRIDIUMS, are spec'd to be gapped at .044. The NGKs and the stock plugs have different physical constructions and use a different gaps because of those physical differences.”
http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=112941&start=160
Tomas has now put the .044 gap on Platinum plugs, rather than Iridium plugs, which seems to contradict what was posted in 2006 and in 2008.

I don't mean to be a :doh: or start the discussion all over again. Someone could just confirm that the Platinum plugs should be gaped to .044 like the Iridium plugs, and we won't continue the discussion.

The manufactures all call for a .032 gap for the plugs they recomend for the xb , people run the plugs for the Prius ( iridium ) cause it is the same motor. If I remember correctly.

The Denso plugs ( iridium) call for a .044 gap from manufacturer.

As far as I could find the denso are the only one recomending a .044 gap in our cars.

This was found only for what the spark plug manufacturing companys list as plugs FOR OUR CARS.

People can use what ever they want.

And Tomas isn't running with a .044 gap , I thought he said he gapped them at .040 , the stock plugs he took out were gapped at .044 or so after 27k miles , leading to the conclusion they came from the factory at about that after showing little wear.

Yeah, this is confusing isn't it ?

I'm making the gap decision for myself and my car, not recommending gaps for anyone else. What I'm providing to others is the reasoning behind the different choices, and why the different choices might or might not work well.

Remember, too, that from the factory my xB appears to have had the .044 gap on stock plugs as used in the identical engine in the bB.

(And the information from the manufacturers STILL has the only plug spec'd for a .044 gap in the xB Classic to be the Denso iridium - both Toyota/Scion and NGK spec .032 across the board.)

I simply chose to go with a gap not recommended by any manufacturer for these plugs in this engine, knowing that it will work. Empirical testing will show if it works well or not in my vehicle.

(My personal vehicle also has the advantage of using a Tier 1 fuel and a GF-4 oil, both with large amounts of detergents as opposed to many US cars that use whatever is cheapest.)

Tom

when i changed my plugs my OE's were gapped at .044 also

In thinking about that, Johnny, I believe the engines are actually assembled at a different factory, then shipped to the "body" assembly factories for all the different models that used that same engine.

That makes me wonder if maybe when the xA/xB took off with more demand than was expected, a number of engines originally intended for the JDM were reassigned to the US market, and those that showed up in xA/xB models here with the wider JDM gaps were actually originally intended for their domestic market.

THAT makes me wonder of there were any other minor differences between the JDM and US versions of that engine. :D

Guess I need to try to dig up some specs for the bB or ist 1.5l engines, eh?

If you would like, if you happen to have an SG hooked up , send me , or post up what it says as to ING timing at idel and at cruise. And as many points as you wish. I am researching the differences of plug gap , and type to the timing. Any thing I find I will share, weither it proves or disproves my theory.

at idle the ign. hovers around 8 degrgee atdc... crusing speeds i haven't checked yet

Sent you a list of a few other helpful things, oh yeah forgot to add rpm at cruise and idel.
Thanx

Antone else want to send the info I need? Got a few , but need a few more to really get some stats.

thanx to those that have responded so far.

Here's your initial report, Froggie, with the engine warmed up, at idle, transmission in neutral, HVAC off, lights off, sound system off, outside temp ~50ºF.

I'll do some other readings in the near future.

http://tijil.org/SGII_new_plugs_idle.jpg

Thanx Tomas . I am looking at some pretty interesting data. We all may be surprised at what I am learning and finding out.

YouTube is currently processing a couple minutes of video showing Vanilla's SGII at cold start and cruise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-sN0zA9h-0&fmt=18

These are average figures - I've seen both better and worse under very similar conditions.

I figured it was easier to show it this way instead of trying to explain verbally.

Enjoy!

i've never seen my ign timing go btdc while running its always been atdc...

It usually only goes negative (retard) when it's cold and going downhill - I live in very hilly country - my driveway drops about 120 feet in altitude to the street. Also keep in mind it's an automatic, not a manual transmission. :)