:D Hello All.

Not to start off knocking Toyota's marketing folks but it is an acknowledged fact among Scion dealers across the country and the auto reviewers that they missed their target sales-audience by at least 15-25 years with the xB.

I am 45 myself and just saw an elegant woman in her late-50's driving hers into a multi-million dollar gated-community as well as a white-haired couple who were easily in their 70's just the other day. My salesman is among scores of national automotive magazine's car reviewers who supports this profile.

My brand-new '05 (less than 300 miles) will be used for business to service high-income residential customers, so I completely rebadged it as a Toyota and made a few modifications to give it an overall more "mature" look. No insult intended but I bought the xB for its roominess, reasonable sticker-price, and fuel economy. In no way am I trying to identify with the Fast & Furious set that are my son's age.

With the current sales-trend showing that the xB is attracting "older" buyers, I am hoping that Toyota will rethink their marketing and actually sell a "Toyota" version of the xB. As the Scion, the xB could continue to offer things like the LED mods and such but as a Toyota might offer a similar a'la carte of options like power or leather upholstery, sunroof, cruise-control or other luxury upgrades.

Don't get me wrong; I love my toaster. It's just that my son would also like to buy one of these. He thinks the xB is pretty kewl. Yet my son doesn't particularly want to drive a "Dad's" car nor do I want to give the impression that I am going through some kind of midlife crisis. I think Toyota could have saved itself the trouble of creating the whole Scion nameplate for the US export market if the bulk of the sales are with buyers aged 35 and older. I can't help but think that the xB would have still attracted its share of younger buyers who wanted to JDM or customize this very personalizable product even if they had just offered it as part of the regular Toyota line-up.

Now that they already have marketed this car through the Scion marque, I don't want to slight the more youthful buyers/owners; there are alot of younger folks that also like this car. What I would like to know is whether any of you feel like I do and would like to see Toyota offer a "grown-up" model for 2006?

Please take the poll and let me know what you think.

You can see pictures of my "Toyota-ized" xB here:

http://www.scionlife.com/?TorneoDude

or (for more pictures):

http://groups.msn.com/2005ToyotaTorneoScionxB/2005toyotatorneovvti.msnw

Too much badging going on in the back IMO. I'd lose the Toyota emblem on the bottom right, since you already have the Toyota logo emblem on, and everyone knows what compay that is.

And why is it that practically every state (other than cali) puts on dealer decals on the car? I'd surely ask for them to take it off/order one w/o it.

But as for the topic itself, I voted No. There is no need. The xB is fine exactly as it is.

I'm not sure why they created a new division exactly,... perhaps something to do with sales and a "new" company offering unique vehicles. As far as missing their target age-group, that kind of happens with pretty much any company. The Element has the same deal - aimed at young buyers but I see mostly older people driving them (I'm 19, btw). In Scion's case, I think that the company came out with vehicles styled to intrigue the younger generations, while being affordable and practical. The older gen peeps see a car that's distintive and appeals to them, but also offers great value - more interior space than many more expensive competitors, much better mpg, and easy on the wallet in overall MSRP and insurance. So they snatch it up. I got mine because it's a uniquely (sp?) styled vehicle, tons of room inside (haul my friends around a lot), gets good mpg (20k miles in a mere 4 months, yes I drive a LOT), and it stands out from the rest of the cars without any mods. Which hasn't stopped me from modding it, I love modding my ride and standing out even more. In the end, I think Scion just designed a vehicle that clicks with all generations instead of just one... why change it? More sales for them :D

:D Hello All.

I am 45 myself and just saw an elegant woman in her late-50's driving hers into a multi-million dollar gated-community as well as a white-haired couple who were easily in their 70's just the other day.
No insult intended but I bought the xB for its roominess, reasonable sticker-price, and fuel economy. In no way am I trying to identify with the Fast & Furious set that are my son's age.

I am hoping that Toyota will rethink their marketing and actually sell a "Toyota" version of the xB. As the Scion, the xB could continue to offer things like the LED mods and such but as a Toyota might offer a similar a'la carte of options like power or leather upholstery, sunroof, cruise-control or other luxury upgrades.
Now that they already have marketed this car through the Scion marque, I don't want to slight the more youthful buyers/owners; there are alot of younger folks that also like this car. What I would like to know is whether any of you feel like I do and would like to see Toyota offer a "grown-up" model for 2006?


Hey, as a almost forty year old man, I bought the car because it was unique, and had great mileage and had a wonderful ability to be modded, if that is a word. I have the lights, the sub, well, almost all the bells and whistles. Plan on getting more.

I think the SCION name is a great idea, since to a lot of folks, TOYOTA is just, well, square. Not too hip. A name associated with Corollas and the like. TOYOTA is smart, and just like they market their upscale marquee with the name LEXUS, SCION works for the youth market.

Heck, I would think that if I ran a business, and wanted to appeal to a mass market, I would not change the name of the car at all. It's a good name. It's a name on the move.
Now, if in a few years, if they drop the xB from the line up at SCION, I would move the xB to TOYOTA, just because it's a great model, that does not deserve a premature elimination.

Too much badging going on in the back IMO. I'd lose the Toyota emblem on the bottom right, since you already have the Toyota logo emblem on, and everyone knows what compay that is. . . . .

Thanks for your suggestion. Actually I spent quite a bit of time viewing and reviewing the badging on other Toyota's before doing my xB. You will find that most of the Toyota's have both that Toyota oval and the lettered badge. There are no more badges on the hatch than a RAV4, 4Runner, or Highlander to mention just a few.

http://svr01.thump.net/996942/DSC03893.JPG

This might give everyone an idea of where I drew my template from.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UgAcA8YXbbCKSYZg4KXvGdnnDhk0NXR6rlsgGMN*vgxKeXkr0NtmBEA9Z5PeLqpkVxv48U9kFGo03ngUmWzklo9tdNXniUrW6EMK43ZpCqNCsE3mU9uW5ExY1xHSpjtp/P1010130.JPG?dc=4675499403867137021

Don't mean to sound harsh.........but your xB doesn't look so much as a fraction more "mature".............it simply has Toyota badges on it. If anything you have now associated yourself MORE with the "F&F" set by debading and rebadging your car. Old, "mature" folk who just want a car to drive around in buy a car and leave it the way it came.

KiL

I thought an expensive sports car was the official vehicle of the mid-life crisis, not a cheap microvan. :wink:

But even though I'm 52, I fail to see how a plain white xB with plastic hubcaps and a dealer decal can be mistaken for a "Fast & Furious" type car. You don't have flashy wheels, body graphics, sponsor decals, or a big-___ fart pipe sticking out the back. Your audio system probably doesn't shake the ground and you probably don't cruise with your peeps. It's just a practical little car -- no matter whose name is on it.

So relax, don't take yourself so seriously. Besides, one of the signs of being a real grownup is that you don't care what people think about what you drive. That's for kids.

But to play along with your idea, I propose renaming the current Scion colors:

Blue Blood
Pinot Noir
Ivy League Green
Brooks Brothers Black
Gray Flannel
Uptight White


:wink:

You could have saved a lot of money by getting a customized license plate holder:

PLEASE DON'T RACE ME
I'M OLD

:wink:

This thread is more evidence on how "old" the Toyota brand is perceived to be - pretty soon the 40-year-olds will need a "younger" brand of their own.

. . .
I think the SCION name is a great idea, since to a lot of folks, TOYOTA is just, well, square. Not too hip. A name associated with Corollas and the like. TOYOTA is smart, and just like they market their upscale marquee with the name LEXUS, SCION works for the youth market.

Heck, I would think that if I ran a business, and wanted to appeal to a mass market, I would not change the name of the car at all. It's a good name. It's a name on the move. . . .


Thanks for your input. I agree that the car is unique and a great value; which is why I bought one at 45.

Your comments make my point exactly though.

I am not mass marketing and the youth market is not my customer base. My customers are 90%+ 60 year olds with an annual income of 100K or more with houses of an average of 8-10,000 sq. ft. and 3-5 car garages filled with Mercedes, Rolls, Jags, Lexus', BMW's, and the like. In otherwords... the very same "squares" who might consider using a "youth market" vehicle for business less "professional".

Given those parameters, why didn't I buy a Lexus SUV or some other luxury marque?
Because the xB is just the right size, proportions, fuel economy, drivetrain, and other features for what I use it for. No other vehicle at any price embodies all the qualities found in the xB. Keep in mind that the original JDM version was intended as a space-efficient urban-use design that markets to the general population. Toyota simply did not think that American buyers would respond to the bB in that context, so they marketed it to the youth market instead.

However, it appeals even more in the US to the older crowd than in Japan where the bB has to compete against other similar cars not offered here. It is viewed by mature adults as an economical and ergonomical form of transport. It is low to the ground, which makes getting in and out much easier for aging folks, and the seats are more like chairs which you sit in without having your knees bent back up like in other cars. It easy to drive, with higher than normal all-around visibility, and the VSC and traction-control make it even easier for road-conscious seniors.


Obviously most 35+ year old buyers do not have the same concerns about using their Scion the way I do mine, so my (poll) question is not of life-altering importance. But if you agree that being a "Scion" makes the xB less "square", wouldn't simultaneously marketing an upscale xB, maybe even as a Lexus if not a Toyota-version make sense? I doubt the current older buyers were attracted to the xB because the "Scion" designation made it more "kewl" but inspite of it because it offers such a great value.

Would it not make sense then to offer something for those of us not interested in being "kewl", especially if marketing research indicates that there are sufficient "squares" out there buying xB's for the value and not the youth image?

I'm also in agreement with you though that this car appeals to all age groups (for different reasons) because it embodies so many great characteristics. No doubt regardless of how Toyota badges or markets this car, the buyers both young and old will continue to display an unflagging interest for quite some time.

If you're worried about what your customers think, then you should have decked it out like a golf cart. Stick a Club Car logo on it and hang a golf bag rack off the back. :lol:

But chances are your customer base has no clue what a Scion is unless they watch a lot of TV aimed at the younger end of the market. Meanwhile, by driving a "Toyota" they might think, "Oh dear, is business that bad?"

By the way, I spent my first 16 years in Virginia -- in the DC suburbs.

I personally don't think that you can change the image of a car by marketing it under a different monicker. You could re-badge it as a Lexus, do a 5 lug conversion and replace the wheels with alloy wheels from a Lexus LS430, install heated leather seats, GPS navigation, and a sunroof... and people will still think of it as that "weird box car".

I understand that some people may want to exude an image of luxury, but almost any option that is desired can be installed by the dealer before you take ownership of the car. I do agree that OEM options for GPS, leather, and sunroof would be nice. I had to do these aftermarket, but my intention was merely to make the car more comfortable for myself -- not to pretend that it isn't a Scion or to project a different image. These options are so common now that it's almost expected for new cars to be equipped with them.

As for projecting a certain image to your clientele... I think that is much more easily conveyed through your actions than through the car you drive. Clients may think that you're worth more if you pulled up in a Mercedes S500, but they're paying for your services, not to be impressed. In all honesty, a "Toyota bB" is no more grown up than a "Scion xB".

In many ways, the xB is only targeted towards the youth market because of it's incredible value and radical styling. All those neon lights and mp3 stereos are things that youth will do to any car. I think that other cars that are targeted towards youth are the Ford Focus, the Honda Civic, and the Toyota Corolla -- and I think this because they're cheap, economical cars. I could hardly compare a Ford Focus to a Ford GT or a Toyota Sequoia to a Toyota Corolla. They're in radically different price ranges, and thus attract a different group of buyers.

But you know... there are about 500 sides to this story. I bought this car because it was cheap, it had lots of interior space, and it got 35MPG. That's probably the most "grown up" reason to buy a car if I could think of one.

I work daily with the same type clients. I used to drive a Blazer. Now that I have the xb, most people follow me out to the car to figure out what I'm driving. I really don't think the clients I deal with have any feelings about what I drive. I however don't think I shoud drive up in a Lexus either. Then they may feel I'm making too much money off them. Almost everyone I talk to asks about the funny little box I'm driving. Most I feel think the car is awesome with its price and gas mileage, not to mention the room it has. I personally don't feel that rebadging the car would help, because then I would have to explain the Toyota/Scion relationship. I just tell them its a new name brand made by Toyota. My .02..
Chuck

????

You say you're trying not to "identify with the Fast & Furious set" .... and yet you throw a big TRD (Toyota RACING Development) badge on the steering wheel.

mmmm hmmmmm......


And Old Punk.. you're 52? Crazy.. thought for sure you were around 20... wish my dad was as cool as you j/k :lol: :lol:

You're totally missing the point here. Toyota created the Scion nameplate precisely because their cars are viewed as so "grown up." Young people weren't buying them at all, so they dreamed up this hip-hop marketing campaign targeted towards us and came out with 3 highly customizable cars in hopes of attracting 16-30 year olds.

Older people started buying xBs because they're perfect for that demographic. They're extremely easy to get into and out of, they get good gas mileage, they have a lot of room, and they're cheap. The one thing that younger people complain about-the small engine- doesn't bother them at all.

The "youth market" thing is just marketing. I've said it before and I'll say it again: you bought a car, not a lifestyle. You're 45 years old. You should be mature enough to ignore the marketing and go with what's practical. So what if your son likes your car? Stop being so insecure.

Lexuses and BMWs exude luxury because they're expensive and you know they're expensive. The brands are associated with the lifestyle of your customers the way the Diesel brand is associated with hipsters.

Most dealers do, in fact, offer leather seats and cruise control as options. The navigation can be added without much trouble by any stereo installation shop.

hello,
i am 60 years old and this is my 12th toyota product,i dont care what emblems are on this car,this is the best deal for the money you will find anywhere,by the way i have lowered the car,took the emblems off,added a bb on the front,and about to do custom paint,strut bar and some serious tires,enjoy your scion as i have enjoyed mine. different strokes for different folks, peace!

The "youth market" thing is just marketing. I've said it before and I'll say it again: you bought a car, not a lifestyle. You're 45 years old. You should be mature enough to ignore the marketing and go with what's practical. So what if your son likes your car? Stop being so insecure.




Wisdom of the ages! How old are you again, Max2k? :wink:

The "youth market" thing is just marketing. I've said it before and I'll say it again: you bought a car, not a lifestyle. You're 45 years old. You should be mature enough to ignore the marketing and go with what's practical. So what if your son likes your car? Stop being so insecure.




Wisdom of the ages! How old are you again, Max2k? :wink:Eighteen.

You missed the one thing that us Olde Folkes would like to see changed on the xB: The ride quality! Give us another inch of ride height and cushier suspension and the car would be perfect!

George

Thanks to all have responded to my inquiry thus far.

Let me first clarify that I do not feel insecure nor am I taking myself too seriously. I am not "worried" about what my customers think but it was part of the thinking behind going Toyota (and not Lexus... besides it IS a Toyota. Who would beleive an xB was a Lexus?) I am in no way classifying anyone or implying anything personal based on anyone's opinions on this subject. I would be just as happy to drive around in my toaster regardless of what it said on it. In fact I may buy another one for personal use an leave the badges alone within a few months.

There is no need to get personal. You don't know me and I don't know you so let's agree not to start slinging labels at each other because we have a different viewpoint.
Otherwise we could spend an eternity suggesting psychological reasons for everything each poster has or has not done to his car as evidence of deep-rooted mental issues. If anyone can read a person's mental state out of a couple of words in a auto-enthusiast BBS, they are wasting their time here; as Psychiatrists and Psychologists they could make a good living doing this professionally. :roll:


Rebadging it, changing the wheel covers, and changing the taillights was my way of personalizing my xB. It doesn't make mine "better" or more "mature" in actuality. It was my personal opinion however, that using the more recognized/established/respected Toyota name and a more "traditional"/less-mod looking taillights would remove the elements that the manufacturer obviously "tuned" to the younger public. It was not intended, nor does it, make the xB look more expensive.

I wanted to find out through this thread what your feelings were about Toyota's marketing these cars as Scion's and targeting the younger set with the current program, especially in light of the fact that sales are heavily away from that market.

It is clear that most of you feel that it is unimportant and insignificant whether Toyota sold these xB's as Scions or Toyota's. I am also quick to agree that changing the names on a badge does not essentially change a Chevy into a Cadillac as well as to restate that neither was this my intent or I might have had heated leather seats with wood-trimmings and a power sunroof installed together with some Lexus badging.

I do find it contradictory that while most of the respondants have said that putting Toyota badges on my xB was a waste of time and money, no one has suggested that the millions of $$$ that Toyota spent on marketing the xA, xB, and tC as Scion's was a comparably greater waste of money. All the Scion paraphanalia added to Toyota dealerships and special badging to try to set these cars apart has to have added something to the price of our vehicles. It is also interesting to me that I was told to wise-up and act my age because I ..."bought a car, not a lifestyle". While I am the first to wholeheartedly agree, isn't that precisely how and what Scion is marketing... a car made to fit a youthful lifestyle?

The xB is really not a unique independent specialty product in the sense that Toyota has marketed it. "Scion" does not exist in the VIN or any other viable entity associated with the xB. The registration/title lists the xB as a 2005 Toyota JTLKT334...... as does the door sill tag and the motor cover sports the Toyota oval and raised VVT-i. In fact beneath a very thin veneer of Scion, it's all Toyota bleeding through everywhere. (Even beneath the Scion logos on the hubcaps, you will find the recesses for the Toyota ovals.) Of course, it's made by Toyota but show me Chevrolet on your Cadillac registration/title, VIN plate or engine.

It is interesting to me when compared to the thread responses that Toyota has felt it necessary to spend millions? billions? of $$$ extra to rebadge US-bound cars as Scion or Lexus when these exist simply as Toyotas in Japan. It's obvious that Toyota does not agree with our stated "Rose by any other name..." position or it would not have put as much effort into their marketing strategy with the Scion.


I do feel that 2 years of sales data demonstrates now that the Scion name-project was not in-deed necessary to sell their cars. At least for the xB, the sales-figures show a distinct trend toward older buyers who were enticed by qualities other than the ones specifically targeted by Toyota with the intent of making the car appealing to younger buyers.


I believe the vehicle's positive attributes, low-price, and ease of modification sell the cars to young buyers regardless of the name. The lack of a separate brand designation never stopped young folks from buying and modifying countless other Toyota's, Honda's, Nissan's, and Mazda's with body-kits, neon, lowering, and performance mod.s. It didn't take spending bucks deluxe to create a new nameplate to get generation's X or Y to buy those cars. To believe that is to contradict what has been said repeatedly here in the thread; namely that names/badges don't matter. If younger people would not have bought xB's because Toyotas are for squares, then it has to be true that the Scion nameplate was necessary to create something separate that says "young" "cool". It then follows that rebadging as a Toyota makes it simply an unusually shaped economy car for squares and old people. It has to work both ways; if A=B then B=A.


Toyota readily admits that they created "Scion" to market to young folks and tailored the options program to fit the 20's crowd because of their spending on anything JDM. They hoped that a cafeteria-style menu of youth-oriented upgrades and a new name would accomplish this goal.

In part they have suceeded. What none of you have been able to deny though is that most of us would have bought them anyway, even if they had been left simply as another model of Toyota. I vehemently disagree that Toyota would have lost sales if the xB were sold here as a Toyota rather than going to all the extra work to market as a Scion. Those who know what these cars are know they are really Toyota's anyway.

The new name could be a double-edged sword. At a time when other car companies are simplifying and removing redundant marques (like Plymouth, Geo, Oldsmobile) in a world with twice as many (or more?) brands as in 1974, those who don't own one are more likely to say "Sci-who?" and lump the newcomer Scion in with the likes of another Korean-built offering of the Kia, Hyundai, Daewoo crowd. On the otherhand, the well-respected Toyota name has become popularly synonymous with bulletproof never-say-die quality at a reasonable price. There is enough variety within the brand that it cannot be labeled "square" or "cool" as a whole. It also engenders the possible risk that Toyota might examine their demographics and decide that Scion is a costly redundancy. If this happens Scion-named models could be "dated" at an early age like a Geo, Plymouth, or Olds as pre-2006 or whatever as part of a currently non-existent/failed?/discontinued nameplate.

I would be interested to hear if any of the over-35 xB owners would admit to buying an xB specifically because of the Scion marketing? Did the idea of a a practical, inexpensive, fuel efficient car that was clearly youth-marketed have a particular appeal? There is no denying from the Scion dealerships, TV, and website marketing that Scion is suggesting it is an expression of youthful independence to own a Scion. I would just as readily have bought it as a Toyota with the marketing aimed at it being "sensible" transportation, but am I in the minority and has the "youth" concept actually appealed to older buyers?


In any case, one thing is clear to me as a result of the response I have gotten here. Unless Toyota offers the xB under its own name in the near future, I am likely to have one of the only xB's rebadged as a Toyota. The majority of owners would not go to the trouble or think it is a wasted effort. Some no doubt are insulted that I have snubbed a unique brand concept that they personally espouse. To them, I offer my apologies. However, if the Scion concept is as stated in my "Welcome to Scion" Letter states, is that I ..."have joined a select group of individuals: People who want a vehicle that sets them apart from the crowd..." , then I am doing just that.


:lol:

I wanted to find out through this thread what your feelings were about Toyota's marketing these cars as Scion's and targeting the younger set with the current program, especially in light of the fact that sales are heavily away from that market.

Actually, Toyota is doing remarkably well in hitting its demographic target. Yes, some of us olde folkes couldn't be restrained from buying the cars, but the median age of Scion buyers is the lowest in the industry. Compared to Honda's attempt at making the Element a hip youth vehicle and then ending up with a median buyer age in the high 40s, Toyota has done well.

I do find it contradictory that while most of the respondants have said that putting Toyota badges on my xB was a waste of time and money, no one has suggested that the millions of $$$ that Toyota spent on marketing the xA, xB, and tC as Scion's was a comparably greater waste of money.

Apples and oranges. You aren't trying to sell cars, Toyota is.

All the Scion paraphanalia added to Toyota dealerships and special badging to try to set these cars apart has to have added something to the price of our vehicles. It is also interesting to me that I was told to wise-up and act my age because I ..."bought a car, not a lifestyle". While I am the first to wholeheartedly agree, isn't that precisely how and what Scion is marketing... a car made to fit a youthful lifestyle?

Yep, and the youth have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker. Take a relatively plain off-the-shelf Japanese econobox, print up some brochures disguised as hip-hop magazines, and capture a fair part of the youth market. I'd say that the Toyota marketing folks earned their money.

It is interesting to me when compared to the thread responses that Toyota has felt it necessary to spend millions? billions? of $$$ extra to rebadge US-bound cars as Scion or Lexus when these exist simply as Toyotas in Japan. It's obvious that Toyota does not agree with our stated "Rose by any other name..." position or it would not have put as much effort into their marketing strategy with the Scion.

Americans have been used to having different trim lines go by different badges (chevy/buick/cadillac) for generations.

I do feel that 2 years of sales data demonstrates now that the Scion name-project was not in-deed necessary to sell their cars. At least for the xB, the sales-figures show a distinct trend toward older buyers who were enticed by qualities other than the ones specifically targeted by Toyota with the intent of making the car appealing to younger buyers.

Some folks buy the car for what it is. Others buy the "lifestyle" hype. Toyota doesn't care, as long as they sell the cars.

Toyota readily admits that they created "Scion" to market to young folks and tailored the options program to fit the 20's crowd because of their spending on anything JDM. They hoped that a cafeteria-style menu of youth-oriented upgrades and a new name would accomplish this goal.

You forgot one other teeny thing they did. They established the policy of fixed prices. They are hoping that they can train buyers to accept fixed prices so that they can apply this policy to their entire line. Scion was an experiment, and so far it has been successful in achieving its goals.

In part they have suceeded. What none of you have been able to deny though is that most of us would have bought them anyway, even if they had been left simply as another model of Toyota. I vehemently disagree that Toyota would have lost sales if the xB were sold here as a Toyota rather than going to all the extra work to market as a Scion. Those who know what these cars are know they are really Toyota's anyway.

Well, we'll never know, will be? No sense worrying about it.

It also engenders the possible risk that Toyota might examine their demographics and decide that Scion is a costly redundancy. If this happens Scion-named models could be "dated" at an early age like a Geo, Plymouth, or Olds as pre-2006 or whatever as part of a currently non-existent/failed?/discontinued nameplate.

That only matters if you intend to sell the car at an early age. Toyota will continue to support the Scion, since they are Toyotas. It's not a deal like Geo, where Chevy might decide to drop support for the Suzuki-built vehicles. If Toyota decides to drop the nameplate, our cars simply become Toyotas, just as it says on the title and on virtually every part on the car. Your car will be sitting pretty, since it has Toyota badges all over it!

I would be interested to hear if any of the over-35 xB owners would admit to buying an xB specifically because of the Scion marketing?

Are you kidding? I don't even understand the marketing! Somehow, pictures of scruffy-chinned adolescents sitting in a coffee shop with a Scion outside doesn't make me hot to buy the car!

Did the idea of a a practical, inexpensive, fuel efficient car that was clearly youth-marketed have a particular appeal? There is no denying from the Scion dealerships, TV, and website marketing that Scion is suggesting it is an expression of youthful independence to own a Scion. I would just as readily have bought it as a Toyota with the marketing aimed at it being "sensible" transportation, but am I in the minority and has the "youth" concept actually appealed to older buyers?

Well, older buyers will look at a car that is marketed at younger buyers, but younger buyers won't give a second glance to a car marketed at older buyers. Who really wants to be thought of as "old?"

In any case, one thing is clear to me as a result of the response I have gotten here. Unless Toyota offers the xB under its own name in the near future, I am likely to have one of the only xB's rebadged as a Toyota. The majority of owners would not go to the trouble or think it is a wasted effort. Some no doubt are insulted that I have snubbed a unique brand concept that they personally espouse. To them, I offer my apologies. However, if the Scion concept is as stated in my "Welcome to Scion" Letter states, is that I ..."have joined a select group of individuals: People who want a vehicle that sets them apart from the crowd..." , then I am doing just that.

Yep, you're unique, just like all the rest of us :)

George

Oh, I did want to reply as to why I used a TRD emblem on the steering wheel pad....

The raised plastic Scion oval presented a bit of a problem as it is pin-mounted into the air-bag cover and recessed. It was not possible to remove the emblem completely from the recess as the pins are melted flat from behind the pad and the air-bag prevents a rear access.

The only Toyota ovals I could find presently are too heavy/bulky to surface mount and completely cover the recess. I was concerned that if I used full 3D badge casting like the covered cast-aluminum ones I have on the grille and hatch, that these might pose an added risk (like detachment) upon air-bag deployment.

The TRD oval is of light-gauge stamped aluminum sheet with a 3M pad on the back. It was as close to something that says "Toyota" on it* that would cover the recess, be less likely to detach or pose any additional risk in case of airbag deployment, and mold to the shape of the pad so as to look like it belonged there. (*It is spelled out on the bottom in red letters.) My preference would have been to be able to completely remove the OE badge, grind down raised areas in the recess flush, coat the "wound" with a thin layer of vinyl repair and substitute a chromed plastic Toyota oval. But because of the airbag, that was not possible without risking compromising the bag. Alternately, a stamped-alu. version of a same-sized oval in the Toyota "rings" would have been preferable over the TRD.

However, since the xB's 1.5l VVT-i engine is afterall a product of TRD engineering, and a variety of TRD logo's are a common site on Toyota Tacoma and Tundra work-trucks everywhere, it is not on a par with marking the car as a F&F wannabe as if I had put TRD 3' tall graphic's, visors, and decals all over the exterior.

If someone knows of an online source where I could get a self-stick stamped alu. badge like the TRD one in the plain Toyota rings, I would be sincerely interested.

Thanx

If you really want to change the image of the car, put a Lexus or Mercedes badge on it. Others have done it and no one knows the difference, 'cept us.

If you talk to a car-conscious young person today and ask them which car companies are "cool," they'll tell you VW, Mazda, Honda, and to a lesser extent Mitsubishi and Subaru. Toyota has an image of being boring, suburban, frumpy, and unexciting. The Scion name was created to be hip, urban, and cool so Toyota could keep selling cars after the Baby Boomers stopped buying them.

They've played their cards right. The first time I picked up a copy of the Scion Magazine/catalog I immediately noted how well it was marketed. The cover art was done by an internationally popular graffiti artist, and the best street artists in the world were given space inside. Up and coming rap acts were featured. The whole package had the air of authenticity that every product geared at the 16-30 age bracket needs. As we can see, all the marketing in the world didn't really help that much.

I don't "espouse a unique brand concept." I made my decision based on the same things you did: value and utility. However, let's face it: I am Scion's target demographic. However, when it comes down to it, I don't believe anyone buys a car specifically because of the marketing. I think most people are smart enough to recognize value and quality when they see it. I might be assuming people are smarter than they actually are, I don't know.

Anyway, it's your car- do what you want with it. It doesn't matter to me if you slap an 8" mercedes star on the back.

If you really want to change the image of the car, put a Lexus or Mercedes badge on it. Others have done it and no one knows the difference, 'cept us.

:oops: Aw shucks... You got me there! 8) I was tempted very briefly to engage in a bit of whimsy and put Mercedes badges on it. I am the President of an international Mercedes club and the guys would have gotten quite a chuckle if I had tried to pass it off as an "X-Class" Benz! :shock: Even a number of my long-time customers would have enjoyed the humor. (Oh and before anyone tries a bit of amateur pop-psych and suggests that I am either a snob who thnks that Scion's are beneath me or that I can't cope with driving an econo car, you should look at the list of current cars in the "How old are you and what other cars have you owned thread". I have everything from very ordinary beaters to prize-winning show-cars in my current stables, so I am very well-adjusted as vehicles go... I'll thank you very much :wink: *chuckle*)

However, all joking aside... I really like Toyota's. I think they build a hell of a car for what they charge for them. These Scion's are just more proof that these fellows know what it means to build a better mousetrap. I suppose the longer I talk about it, the more I'll have to admit that I'm too damn proud of the Toyota underneath to want to hide it under a basket... er uh... I mean obscure the Toyota under a (Scion) badge. :cry: :wink:

I think telling the world what it truly is : A Toyota! is plenty respectable and high-class enough. Toyota is not a brand to be ashamed of (neither of course is Scion actually but...) and plenty of my customers have Camry's or Avalon's parked right next to their other luxury cars. In fact well-off people are rarely frivolous spenders when it comes to necessities and a number of them respect the Honda or Toyota marques as smart investments when it comes to daily transportation.

:idea: These xB's are so easy to fall in love with! They may prove to be like the proverbial potato chips in that "you can't have just one!" Who knows, if I start collecting a whole fleet of these things, I might try all sorts of badges!! :D

Toyota=Lexus=Scion
Honda=Acura
Nissan=Infiniti
Ford=Lincoln=Mercury=Volvo=Land Rover=Jaguar=Aston Martin etc etc etc

americans wont pay 74,000 for a ford but they will for a Jaguar hmmmmmmmm...

toyota has a car in japan (the name excapes me now) that has AWD, Air suspension, Leather, Massaging seats, all the bells and whistles a BMW 7-Series has but its a toyota there and it would be a Lexus here because americans care about image, and the brand name is key.

well getting back on subject. :oops:

im glad to see all different ages driving these cars. the valus is for everyone and the look is new and hip. im 22 and my first car was a 2001 Ford focus ZX3 because of its look and price and nice motor. then everyone had one. it was a neat ride but i really didnt go anywhere with it. the PT Crusier when it came out had the same reaction. "what that?" "Who makes that car" "it looks neat/cool!" i love my xB because its different like me. i put flyers on all the scions i see in a parking lot and most of the time its people like TorneoDude, laid back, aged and saw the car as an opportunity. i get asked about my xB everyday since i got it. im lookin for a job with Toyota because i can sell them so easily because i told everyone else about them.

Torneo,
your style is different than everyone elses and thats the SCION slogan, "what moves you" thats what makes the car fun. my plan for my xB is to JDM it as close to the Toyota bB as possible without converting it to Right hand drive. Enjoy your ride bro and welcome to Scion!! :D

In short, a Toyota version of the xB is a horrible horrible idea. . . most businessmen have read the volumes of books on the HUGE errors of GM, trying to pass off the same vehicle sold by a kazillion different brands. It just doesn't work. Secondly, Scion was created to distance it from Toyota, and attract new buyers. . . adding the xB to Toyota would be counter-intuitive to that goal. Exclusivity is a major appeal to the Scion brand, away from the cookie-cutter Toyota approach. The Scion brand is about being radical, not conservative. . .

In my opinion, and to the opinion of critics, Toyota is already treading mucky waters with Lexus. The ES300 is simply too similar to the Camry, and it downplays the meaning of a Luxury brand. . . even the Highlander does this to an extent. In fact, many RX300/ES300 buyers cross shop between the Toyota versions. This is a major reason why Toyota Corporate decided to make Lexus a global division, and permanently seperate its designers and direction. Within a few years, there is supposed to be a markedly distince difference between Toyota and Lexus. . . after all they don't want to GM themselves.

GM was a great company that made great cars, but business flaws created unnecessary costs into redundant models that appealed to the same market. The costs of designing, testing, manufacturing, and selling a single model is astronomical. . . so the less overlap, the better. Toyota is finally realizing this and is moving in the right direction (as is just about every other brand, including GM).

Just look at how polarized Scion buyers are. . . there is VERY little overlap/cross-shopping between each Scion model, which is VERY difficult to do. I'd be willing to bet that the overlap between the xA and the xB is less than between the Corolla and the base Camry. Considering that both vehicles are based off the same platform and both in the same market, this is phenomenal. . . bottom line, they want to as many different markets and as many different demands as possible, and at the same time have as little overlap as possible.

So if the Toyota market wants an xB, they SHOULD just settle for a Scion. Yes. . . I know a lot of these ideas are contradictory, as is the entire premise, but it makes sense from a business standpoint. It's about balance. All I'm saying is that right now, Toyota leans towards a saturated brand, in terms of overlap, and they would not want to increase that saturation. Whether or not they wanted to, doing so would be a a really bad move.

My brand-new '05 (less than 300 miles) will be used for business to service high-income residential customers, so I completely rebadged it as a Toyota and made a few modifications to give it an overall more "mature" look.

Let me first clarify that I do not feel insecure nor am I taking myself too seriously. I am not "worried" about what my customers think . . .

Kinda sounds like you are worried. And I'm not sure what your business is, but I think you're giving the folks in Kingsmill and Ford's Colony a little too much credit. You're assuming that they even know that a Scion is an economy car. I doubt that they would unless you told them.

But even if they do know that, I seriously doubt it would hurt your business. I mean, I've heard that some of the people who live in these gated communities are materialistic and shallow, but if they worried about the kind of vehicle that was being driven by all the people they hired, they wouldn't get much done. And I don't think other business people worry too much about it either. I assume they choose the vehicle that fits the needs of their business.

What about the contractors who drive those filthy vans and trucks? I'm assuming even people who live in Kingsmill have to have their plumbing serviced or their roofs repaired once in a while. If they were really that concerned about appearances and such, it seems like having a nasty van parked in their driveway would bother them much more than having a nice white Scion there. Or is that different? Dirty is okay as long as it's a Toyota (or Ford or GMC or whatever)? Doesn't make sense to me.

I guess I just think that you're assuming that you'll have to defend your choice of vehicle to people, and I don't think that's the case.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I just don't get it . . .

lol Great thread I must say. I am 36 bought it because I cant seem to grow up heheh no seriously, I like most am in love with the quirky style that a box can have. I may be over 30 but I still desire a car that is unique.

On topic I would say you may have wasted your money on all the cosmetic changes. One of the absolute best comments I have gotten from some people getting into their mercedes at the grocery store was Hey is that the new A class? Lol I said no its a Scion. They said "A what?" I said "Toyota" they said "Really? It looked so european!!" They stopped getting into their car and came over for a chat. I walked em around the box let them sit in it and play with it. And guess what? The husband was like "this is sooo coool" <- yep the word cool came flowing out of a post 50ish distinguished gentlemans mouth. He asked me how much I told him and he looked at is wife who couldnt stop oooing and ahhhing over it and said what color you want honey?

We exchanged numbers for a different reason then the car, but I got a call last week that he bought one for his wife in Cherry and one in Polar. And the funniest part was he started giggling and said, oh yeah I got em loaded, lights in the cupholders and everything hehehe. If I could have reached through the phone I would have High 5'ed him. Oh if it makes any difference they were drivng a 55 if that helps you gauge their income level.

So I think the perception that a cheap car makes you a cheap person is/may be a in the minds of some but not most. You will see more and more people buying this car for a variety of reasons and not just the young crowd.
Life magazine voted the xb as one of the sexiest cars in 2005
Edmonds voted the xb as most wanted under 15k

Not to mention the fact that 75% of the scion buyers are new to toyota.

Scion is here to stay for sure and I dont think cheap is the first thing people think about when they hear the name. I think style and smart economics :)

Peace

If you care soo much what you customers think, you should have put lexus badges on the front and back.....

BTW, a 2002+ camry se airbag fits nicely in the stock location- Im thinking about switching with my mom's!

I like the toyo emblem on the front- the rear is too busy compared to stock xB! O well - your taste!

hello,
i am 60 years old and this is my 12th toyota product,i dont care what emblems are on this car,this is the best deal for the money you will find anywhere,by the way i have lowered the car,took the emblems off,added a bb on the front,and about to do custom paint,strut bar and some serious tires,enjoy your scion as i have enjoyed mine. different strokes for different folks, peace!

:shock: That's Awesome 8) :D :D

The Toyota version needs a contenental tire like the upscale rav4 :), roof rack, and projector headlights

Geeezzzz....it took a week to read this thread :shock: I am 37.......Before I bought this I was considering higher dollar cars..Lexus , Infiniti etc.....None of which excited me. I while smoking cigars a gentleman told me he bought the XB and loved it.... It stuck in my mind.... Then a buddy who sells cars Scion's in his 30's told me to check it out....something clicked..value,cost,reliability, and most of all style. I went and bought the one I test drove my 05 BCP XB....never looked back...I could have bought anything I wanted within reason...I chose my box for what it is and age and nameplate had nothing to do with it. However I think the crux of it all is either you get "it" or you don't..if you don't go buy an Poldsmobuick :D :D

Just look at how polarized Scion buyers are. . . there is VERY little overlap/cross-shopping between each Scion model, which is VERY difficult to do. I'd be willing to bet that the overlap between the xA and the xB is less than between the Corolla and the base Camry. Considering that both vehicles are based off the same platform and both in the same market, this is phenomenal. . . bottom line, they want to as many different markets and as many different demands as possible, and at the same time have as little overlap as possible.

So it's not just me. I've been to a few Scion gatherings and each model seems to attract a certain type of buyer. It has almost become a game to guess which model Scion people have purchased. As an xB owner, I feel that tC owners and xA owners have a dramatically different disposition. While we're still a big family, it's nice to see that each car has its own little niche.

Look at the poll results. 97% say keep one xB brand.

I don't care what other people think (non-xBers).

We can all do our own mods to remake the xB the way we want it to be. 8)

Like many others, I bought the car for it's price, flexibility, and quality.
The fact that it's a Toyota is an added bonus.
Toyota bB or Scion xB, it dosen't matter to me.
:D

Kinda sounds like you are worried. And I'm not sure what your business is, but I think you're giving the folks in Kingsmill and Ford's Colony a little too much credit.


:) That post cracked me up. because I know people in Ford coloney and they were pised that the people at the gate let me in with my POS pickup truck.. I'm not kidding. I was even worried when I showed up in my scion, but when I told aunt ardie that it was a toyota, just like her lexus, it was ok.

Look im 34 and a proud owner of a XB and now a XA as well im a professional as well nobody cares what you drive as long as it get's you and your clients from point a to point b dont be embarrassed be PROUD to own a scion. toyota baged it as a scion so that they can market it at the price they do , that's the only way it could come into this country at that price otherwise it would be more expensive. JUST remember that all that matters is that you like it nothing else. ENJOY

This really has been an unusually amazing thread! :lol:

What I really find amazing is how many respondants seemed almost offended that I apparently diss'ed the Scion by putting Toyota badges on it. I was practically accused a couple of times of being insecure or even ashamed of being seen in a Scion.

It is humorous to being labeled a heretic for purportedly trying to "improve the car's image" by putting Toyota logos all over it because I supposedly feel a need to disquise what it is only a "lowly" Scion. :roll: I must be obviously very insecure :P Ha Ha Ha! I have never heard so many negative comments FOR NOT LEAVING IT "Scion-ized" and you think I'm insecure? How is it any different than all the xB's with JDM bB badges that no longer say "Scion"? If I had simply said I think the Scion logo is ugly and I wanted to customize mine a'la "Toyota", I wonder if that would have engendered the same level of vehement defenses for the existance of the entire Scion concept that thoroughly peppered the thread?

To me it seems a blatant denial to feel offended, insulted, challenged, or ague against the fact that the Scion (xB) is simply a weak disguising of the real Toyota underneath, not the other way around. All the arguments for leaving the xB as a Scion could be equally considered a defense for protecting the "images" represented by it; namely individuality and youthfulness. But then that is just a marketing concept and I should be old enough to see through that. Yea, I did. I'm not into the whole "express your uniqueness; buy a Scion". I bought the ideal work van and would have prefered that Toyota not go to such great lengths to suggest that it was something more. The sales figures are irrefutable fact that most of us bought them despite their off-target marketing scheme. We did see past the marketing. But that begs the question, what good was it then?

It is a constant contradiction to keep saying that it is silly to rebadge the xB as a Toyota because it doesn't change it's image when the same people argue for retaining the Scion "image". The Scion "image" is a fiction for the xB. Toyota created it because they thought we, the buyers, would fall for it. Based on some of the defensive comments on this thread, I would say that they were at least partly correct. If it doesn't matter, why be so negative that I put the Toyota back on mine or that Toyota should either drop the xB from Scion or market it simply as a Toyota?

There is no argument to refute that Toyota was trying to create a younger image with all the Scion-izing; IT IS A FACT. A number of the respondants further affirmed this in their posts as well. So, if putting a couple of badges, clear taillights, and some advertising equates the Scion with a necessary younger image to improve marketing, how can it be said that removing these specific manufacturer's "image boosters" had no effect? That can only be true if Toyota's marketing efforts with the Scion weren't that significant as an image builder; if undoing them is that insignificant, then they could not have been that effective to begin with. You can't have it both ways.

Why not put Lexus logos on my xB? Because Lexus is just as much of a contrivance as Scion. Besides, as I already stated before, the xb IS already a Toyota not a Mercedes or a Lexus or anything else. IMO it was pretentious to try to make the Toyota into a Scion with a couple of badges rather than the other way around. It is hardly pretending to be what it already is: a Toyota.


In short, a Toyota version of the xB is a horrible horrible idea. . . most businessmen have read the volumes of books on the HUGE errors of GM, trying to pass off the same vehicle sold by a kazillion different brands. It just doesn't work. Secondly, Scion was created to distance it from Toyota, and attract new buyers. . . adding the xB to Toyota would be counter-intuitive to that goal. Exclusivity is a major appeal to the Scion brand, away from the cookie-cutter Toyota approach. The Scion brand is about being radical, not conservative. . .


... Uh... are you kidding? The xB... or bB already IS a Toyota! If anyone wanted to disguise anything or try to make this little Japanese Urbanmobile something more than it is... it was in making it part of the Scion triad. If anything, putting Toyota on the outside of an xB is a more honest representation than the manufacturer trying to pass off a Japanese economy car that has been around since 99 as some totally new "hip" car on the American market as if it was especially designed for the young and young at heart. This wasn't some unique NEW anti-cookie-cutter; it is an already existing car repackaged as a new brand- Scion. The xB shape may be unique in the US right now, but this little Toyota already existed and would have been just as "boxy" or "unique" under its true name when it first hit the US shores.

To amend your statement, I would say, it was a mistake for Toyota to further try to "pass of the same vehicle sold by a kazillion different brands." What do you think they did by passing off a Japanese Toyota as some totally unique concept under some new Scion alias? Didn't they just add to the confusion by adding another nameplate? Who has never heard of Toyota? On the otherhand how many times does someone ask us what a Scion is?

If you think Toyota needed to distance itself, I ask distance itself from what? Just because the best-selling Camry, Solara, and Avalon are outside of the price-range of the avg. 20 year olds and the 4runner, Highlander, and Sienna are more for the soccer-mommy crowd doesn't mean that Toyota doesn't have models for a younger market; cars like the MR2, Celica, RAV4, and the Tacoma perhaps? Adding some or all of the Scion models as new Toyo offerings would still have worked; at least in the case of the xB, with no drop in sales- maybe even an increase as long as the current price structure and features were maintained.

I don't buy the argument that they needed to distance themselves from the Toyota name. Scion, as a newcomer with no depth of independent reputation yet, is smoke-and-mirrors; it is nothing without the Toyota heritage, design, and reputation. It was suggested that the marketing was correct even though they attracted mostly older buyers to the xB and missed their target market by an overwhelming percentage. The justification given was that we older folks would buy it even though it was not marketed to our interest but they attracted additional young buyers who would not have bought it as another boring Toyota line. (Does anyone have sales figures to hand as to whether the Neon sales changed as they rebadged from Plymouth to Dodge? It was a youth concept marketed car.)

First of all, if the Scion xB had not been a Toyota built product, I would not have spent the first penny on it regardless of how it looked or what features it offers. If Scion had been a product of Daewoo or Kia or Isuzu or some former East-bloc creation, I would not have been interested. It is precisely because it is a Toyota underneath that I had the assurance that all the great features I see on it now have the backing of decades of bulletproof Toyota durability behind it. Anyone else agree that the Toyota connection made the otherwise unproven Scion more of a sure bet to clinch the deal?

Now, what about the younger generation? Without all the Scion hype 18-30 year-olds wouldn't have been attracted to the xB? It sounds like that is truly selling them short. To state that is to insinuate that all Toyota had to do is slap a different badge on a Toyota to draw youngersters to their product but minus a few Scion badges they would ignore it as a square's ride? I don't believe my own kids are that stupid and a number of young xB owners that have posted in this thread convinced me that they aren't that dumb either! Otherwise, all Toyota has to do for 2006 is to turn the Corolla into a Scion xD with a couple badges to sell it to the younger crowd.

No? Because the Corolla is an existing car that won't "fool" younger buyers into buying it by disguising it as something new as a Scion. Before someone states the obvious here: "You missed the point... The xB is something unique in our market and the Scion pricing and option a'la carte/menu approach IS also special to Scion..." I would point out that those features did not require the formation of a Scion division or special marketing for the xB. The xB is just as unique regardless of what Toyota did or didn't name/badge it when it was introduced to the US market. I think to suggest that our fellow xB owners would be driving Civic's if Toyota had introduced the xB as a Toyota is ridiculous and unsupported by any fact. There is no reason to believe that Toyota could not have offered all the current buyer options like the fixed pricing and the "package eliminating" options menu without establishing an entirely different line. These could have been features unique to these three models.


Besides, enjoy the "uniqueness" factor while it lasts. There are plenty of unusual body-styles that are coming onto the US market. Once the xB has become a more common site, (it has only been here for the 2nd model-year now), they will either be appreciated for all their great qualities or just one more common shape of popular new cars that you see everywhere. Like the PT cruiser or the Beetle that no longer raises eyebrows anymore, it will still be a great car but more "commonplace" after a while. I have already read at least two articles that compared the xB profile to a scaled-down Chevy Astro van. So if anyone is zealously defending the xB's Scion-ness because of it's uniqueness, that is only a temporary condition. It is also not brand-dependent and would still be as unusual or ordinary a shape regardless of how it was named.

The features that make this car an excellent value for the price are what will truly remain regardless of whether or not young people buy the car in droves for years to come or not. When you talk about good business sense, it is not good business to continue to taylor a product to a specific target group when it becomes patently clear that your sales demographics show that you are selling to another group of buyers instead. Toyota is not stupid. No manufacturer continues to advertise a concept that only applies to 30% of its customer base when the other 70% represent a market that is not attracted by that marketing strategy.

If you are selling shavers and 70% are bought by women under 30, does it make sense to keep an advertising geared toward showing how your product cleanly removes the facial hair of the chins of 20 year-old men? Yes some women will still figure that it might be good for legs and underarms but the majority of the buyers will not be made to identify with your product. If you know however that most of your buyers are young women, you will advertise those features that will target even more of them by making your product appear to meet their needs/expectations. You don't continue to tune all your advertising toward getting more men to buy because you figure you already have the ALL the women customers. Instead you devote a smaller portion toward expanding your potential customer base by suggesting an application for your product that exceeds your primary customer base. You do not alienate your primary customer base to do that though. If you know that your shaver appeals to women, you find out why and advertise those features in order to attract more of that crowd.

Does it make sense then for Toyota to ignore the majority of their xB buyers who do not identify with the youth concept and stubbornly continue the current campaign? Who knows how many more older conservative buyers would not go to the Scion dealer because they didn't know (without talking to an owner) that the xB is, as one post said, "A Toyota... like your Lexus... (or Camry)"? Any good salesman knows it is not smart to stay tied up with someone you have to convince to buy while letting the buyer who is already ready to deal walk off the lot.


My belief is that the current marketing suggesting that the xB is a cool car for kids with its primary asset being that it is personalizable with mods to make it cool and individual, is missing the mark. In fact this concept is mostly lost or unimportant to the majority of buyers who were older and impressed with the roominess, quality, economy, and number of other less "exciting" features that make it a very "sensible" car. Toyota should do something to further entice and sell other potential older buyers who have unilaterally recognized a more "traditional" value in the car that has nothing to do with "cool" "youthfulness" or esthetic mods. Again I would say, if the the majority of buyers found these unadvertised and unmarketed features attractive enough to buy the cars, how can anyone say that young folks would not have been attracted by the features that make it ideal for customization for their needs. If older folks could see through the marketing to become the majority buyer, I have every confidence that the younger buyers could have seen through the opposite just as well.


From what I have observed there are two major things that made a car attractive to the younger set: price and available parts for customizing/modifying/personalizing. After that the popularity of body styles varies by era and region. In some areas the CRX and Civic were top choice and others it was small pick-ups like the Tacoma are the overwhelming favorite. Most of the micro cars that are buzzing past with fiberglas body mods, performance upgrades were not marketed that way. The cars just lend themselves to eager young folks who want something to express their personality.

My kids and I agree with the post that said that Scion did a good job relating to their target audience by accurately connecting to popular trends and youth culture. What the sales figures are saying however, is that it is not really working. People outside of this target are the majority buyers and they did not identify with the advertising but bought the xB anyway. Again, sales figures confirm the old "bring a horse to water..." maxim. Toyota knows who is buying and who is not. For Toyota to continue along the present marketing track on the xB* is not good business unless the tide turns. (*It might clarify to state that I can't speak to the xA or tC; I am specifically commenting on the xB.) There is nothing wrong with trying to tap the youth market. Not attempting to connect at all with the more senior market that has demonstrated a strong and mostly unsolicited interest is just foolhardy. One can only imagine what impact a more aggressive solicitation of the primary buying group might do for sales. Currently they are doing nothing to attract more buyers from this market. That is hardly one man's unsupported opinion; it just smart business.


In the end, this is all just good talk afterall; certainly nothing to take too seriously. What the big boys in charge decide won't be up to us, so it is just a chance to blow a little smoke. There are obviously a lot of passions and opinions out there; the makings of a good thread.
We are probably the wrong people to have polled on this question anyway; we already have our xB. It also has absolutely no effect on those of us who have already decided that the xB is the car for us. Mine will always be simply a Toyota to me. I think that is good enough. I am perfectly secure and well-adjusted with my Toyota regardless of the jeers from Scion owners who think I'm either a silly ___ who has a hang-up for names or that I just spit on the Flag by taking the Scion badges off.

I have enjoyed ALL the comments and even got a few good chuckles at the jabs!

Thanks for contributing! Peace!

man that was long. . . and you can't cross int'l borders. . . japanese markets are japanese markets. The bb is only a bb in Japan. . . as is a Celsior, as is an Aristo, as is a Harrier. A Toyota Celsior would never fly here.

I wasn't deliberately trying to offend you. . . just trying to firmly state that it is a very bad idea

It's not that people have a problem with Toyota itself, it's that the brand image doesn't appeal to younger buyers, and data proves it. They are simply trying to tap into a market that they once owned and now lost. Buy creating Scion, they are using a ploy, a business scheme, to win over this lost market. Don't forget that the Echo, Corolla, and Celica are still in the same technical class as Scion, but are aimed at different markets. And furthermore, if they too closely blended Scion with Toyota, they lose the main objective of the company.

I would be interested to hear if any of the over-35 xB owners would admit to buying an xB specifically because of the Scion marketing? Did the idea of a a practical, inexpensive, fuel efficient car that was clearly youth-marketed have a particular appeal? There is no denying from the Scion dealerships, TV, and website marketing that Scion is suggesting it is an expression of youthful independence to own a Scion. I would just as readily have bought it as a Toyota with the marketing aimed at it being "sensible" transportation, but am I in the minority and has the "youth" concept actually appealed to older buyers?

:lol:

I am 37 years old and had the Scion xB been called a Toyota xB I would not have bought it.

The styling is what attracted me to the car, but it fits my lifestyle perfectly. I need a car with exceptional fuel efficiency, comfort and cargo capacity and the Scion xB hits on all counts. My secondary criteria were reliability and low maintenance. It was built by Toyota and they do have a great reputation, and the service manual indicates that for at least the first 100K miles the worst I can expect is valve adjustments and spark plug replacements. In short, it is the perfect car for me.
I saw my first Scion up close at a Wendy's some months ago. If it had a Toyota badge on it I would not have given it a second thought. The Scion badge caused me to to do some research into the company and I was pleasantly surprised to find that it was essentially Toyota.
I think there are other cars out there that would also have made a good choice for me, but the Scion badge is what started it for me. I also like distinctiveness, and the xB was originally designed for the Japanese market, and all they did was move the steering wheel and rebadge it. In fact there is not another car built for the US market with the angles and lines of the xB with the exception of the Hummer H2. Had I not done the research into the Scion brand I would not have found this out, and I would have probably settled for a good used car, which was my original plan. [/b]

Just look at Honda dealers, and their respective market share, and where that market demographic is. Toyota may outsell Honda, but it is a fact that Honda OWNS the younger import market, even though the cars they offer are nearly identical in what they have to offer. It's simply a matter of marketing/branding (like Gap, Old Navy, and Banana Republic all being the same company, and offering similar styles, especially between Gap and Old Navy). I'm a firm believer of the strategy of keeping brands that are clearly seperated, and blurring the lines simply defeats the point of creating the brand in the first place. Perhaps the Echo was just ugly, perhaps not. . . but it thouroughly failed in sales, being extremely similar in content and value to the xB/xA. Mileage, price, practicality, reliability, interior room, it's all there in a conservative sedan body. Scion is kicking major butt in terms of hitting sales goals, and I so no reason from a business standpoint to blur the lines or risk any kind of dent to that success. I firmly believe that any potential gains in sales in adding an xB to Toyota would be drowned by the sales losses to Scion, which translate to losses to the parent company. I firmly believe that this is very very very clear from all data, research, and historical accounts. . . but this is all business theory/history, so you are free to disagree. Yet from a business standpoint, again I'm not mocking you or your intelligence as the idea is plausible, I think that adding an xB to Toyota is a laughable idea at best, and would not appeal to anbody in Toyota Corporate in a higher managerial position. "Don't fix what ain't broke." Scion is a success. . . no need to tamper with their approach/strategy.

Not sure if it has been covered but we most of us know that there are shady Toyota Salespeople. They'll say one thing, then something, etc. They'll start saying "if you dont buy this car, I wont have enough money to feed the family" :lol: . They are not upfront. With Scion, most of the Scion salesforce I've experianced are pretty much upfront with the info. They dont have this "here comes another sucker, let's lure him in" as those found on some Toyota dealerships. However this aspect of PROPER customer sales service still needs to be worked on for Scion. There are still issues with certain dealerships and salesperson who sell Scions. It has not reach to the same levels as the Lexus sales team.

BTW, I can easily see a person who has a lot of money driving an xB up to a posh country club filled with RR, Bentleys, MB, HUMMER, etc. And smiling happily while handing over the keys to the valet.

Not sure if it has been covered but we most of us know that there are shady Toyota Salespeople.

I'd say it's not exclusive to Toyota salepeople, it's practically an industry standard.

Having an xB and bB competing against each other wouldn't be good, especially considering that Scion has pure pricing. They would play the same old games and Toyota would just sucker price them and then add stuff on...

The way I see it is people have become too reliant on the dealers to do these things that often will be done as good or better by an aftermarket company. Many times the dealer just sends it to the professionals and marks it up for you. I don't want the added costs of providing a leather option, for instance, to affect the lower price I got from the mono-spec business model.

Just because a bunch of us old fogies bought a Scion doesn't mean that their marketing campaign is a bust. The fact that the median age is low means there's a bunch of young folks buying them too - and that's the goal of the Scion brand.

They aren't trying to make Scion a volume mover. For instance, for every tC that they build, they lose a powerplant that could've been used in a Camry. They can slap the cars together all day and night, but they have a finite supply of engines/trannys coming in. They sell a ton more camry's than all 3 Scions combined and I bet they have a higher profit margin, but they know that Scion will pay dividends in the future...

I feel like I read a dictionary.....sad part is I will never get those minutes back.....bottem who the heck cares...people buy what appeals to them

I will be the dumb one to say it....

Lexus Version, Full Leather, Sunroof Hid, Nav system, Heated Seats, an a Ginnie Pig instead of a Hampster for an engine.

HE HE HE.

I would love to be decked out like a Escalade or the Big Lexus SUV and still get 30mpg. :wink:

Great responses Guys! Keep up the good work!

I have been giving alot of thought to your comments about the Toyota nameplate's marketing appeal or lack of it. As I was driving around today, it occured to me that the popularity of Honda's (for example) might less be an effect of youth-target marketing but more along the lines of the ready availability of mod.s and the sheer volume of available cars themselves. If you look at cars like the Accord, Civic, and CRX that have been real popular with young folks, the bulk of them were not bought new but second-hand at a good price. Heck, with the exception of the sporty CRX, I don't beleive Honda did much to promote the Accord and Civic as anything more than sensible transportation. But since these were particularly prolific (high production numbers) cars, they have attracted a huge aftermarket. Both contribute to a readily available car to modify and customize at a reachable price for younger buyers. I don't think that the older 4 door Accords, which were a big fave of the conservative/sensible older crowd when they were new, exuded any cool to attract the younger buyers that seem to have just gobbled them up to mod them as second-hand buys. I think the absence of an image is interesting in that context. It seems that certain cars lend themselves better to re-mold with mod.s to express the individualism and personality of today's youth than others.


The direction of the dealer options on the xB and the cooperative attitude that Toyota has with the aftermarket for this car seems to recognize the significance of this. To be popular with the younger set, you have to have lots of mods available. I suspect that is why Mazda's youth-targeted advertising has failed to unseat Honda as the youth fave; there are many more mod.s for Honda's than Mazda's.

One of my first thoughts when Scion made its debut was that the idea of offering all the mod.s at the dealership might not go over as big as Toyota thought. I could not help but thinking kids are not going to want to use "canned" factory mods and so far it does look like buyers prefer to get their own "upgrades" outside of the dealership. Nothing wrong with the stuff offered at the time of sale but I was thinking of my own son and his friends. They seem less enthusiastic about having customizing details from a pre-selected (read "limited" ) dealer-menu than locating something unique. (We are talking about guys that pay 3x to get the Japanese versions of video games because not being "off the shelf" at every WalMart makes them more special... more "kewl".) Of course additionally, most of the options available at the dealer are available elsewhere (like on eBay) much cheaper too.

As long as Toyota continues to cooperate with the aftermarket and production/sales figures create a sufficient market for xB mods, I think the xB will only increase in popularity regardless of how Toyota choses to market this car.

At the same time, I suspect what makes a car a "sucess" as a youth-fave is probably more of a complex intersection of coincidences as well as planning. Just like you can't plan to make a toy the Xmas rave of the year, it either happens or it doesn't.
There were plenty of well-marketed and designed toys available during the years that the Cabbage-patch dolls and the Tickle-me-Elmo had mothers fist-fighting over them.
Attempts to figure out why and duplicate their success (even with the same product line) failed. No one can really give a definitive answer as to what made children crazy for these toys and ignore others that the manufacturers were sure that had positioned to attract their target audiences.

I suspect that it may be more similar with cars than we think.

What do you think?

First off i'll admit i like the changes done to your Scion. The Gold Toyota Emblems look nice with the White paint. What he did was personalize his xB. Its no different that adding some nicer rims, acustom exhaust, etc. As far as changing the xB to Toyota, Its doing fine as a Scion so why change it. If Scion as a whole fails i would like to see it get moved to the Toyota line sort of how the Geo Tracker( the only Geo that actually made it saleswise) became the Chevy Tracker. However it looks like Scion is a huge success so we won't have to worry about that ever happening.

I will be the dumb one to say it....

Lexus Version, Full Leather, Sunroof Hid, Nav system, Heated Seats, an a Ginnie Pig instead of a Hampster for an engine.

HE HE HE.

I would love to be decked out like a Escalade or the Big Lexus SUV and still get 30mpg. :wink:

30mpg, decked out like an Big SUV, Full Leather, sunroof, Mark Levinson (best OEM sound system, period). . . I think they already have one coming. . . it's called the Lexus RX400h, the hybrid RX330. Good luck getting one, the wait list is about a year, last I checked.

http://www.lexus.com/models/hybrid/index.html

Good idea, but for the same reason I am against a Toyota xB is the same reason why Lexus won't make the Acura mistake and have a sub $29k car. They don't want kiddies riding around in new Lexuses, as they want the brand to be upscale, elite, and exclusive. Acura is often criticized for having "lowly" cars (not my words, and I still like Acuras) such as the Integra, both in its former coupe and sedan bodystyles, when it really belonged in the Honda brand. Infiniti was guilty of this as well; why they chopped off the G20(was offered for a brief period even after the introduction of the G35) the G20, being an upiddy-do-dah Nissan Sentra. I know you were only joking but adding an xB to Lexus is not all that different than adding it to Toyota.

Even Mercedes-Benz is smarter than to mess with it's brand image. . . why they are hesitent to bring the A class here, although that might change. But even then, Merecedez still offers cheaper versions of their cars in their home markets equipped with panzy engines, but they know better than to do that here. In Europe and Asia, an S class can be had with a panzy V6, smaller than the V6's (still an AWESOME car). And many of the other models feature tiny tiny engines that would never sell here. Mercedez sees no reason to create a different brand in the same way Toyota did not in Japan (just changed this year).

Branding works, and historical evidence proves it. . . but it only works when there is a clear seperation and distinction between brands. If you get greedy and try to pass of a Civic as an Acura to satisfy a handful of buyers, your Acura RL's will pay a price in sales because of it. And if Scion's (even though they are very similar) start looking too familiar, kiss the brand goodbye, as either sales will plummet or costs will soar (GM's main problem as a business isn't sales, it's high costs due to redundant brands/models). Our costs are low because we have monospec cars. . . mess with that, and costs increase.

This really has been an unusually amazing thread...

...blah blah blah... (20 minutes later)

Now, what about the younger generation? Without all the Scion hype 18-30 year-olds...

...wuah wuah wuah wuah (think Charlie Brown's teacher)... (40 minutes later)

...Thanks for contributing! Peace!

There's nothing that makes a guy look older than a looooong, rambling post. I now understand why you'd proudly slap a Toyota badge on an xB.

The Xb stands for difference, it is a car that makes all of us who own one feel like we stand out from the crowd, it makes us feel special when people stare at us, wether in disgust or shock. It is a pride that is fragile, if there was another car that looked like ours, it would not be as fun to own one, even if it were from the same car company in reality. It is a mental thing not a visual thing. I dont want my Xb confused for a Toyota, it is so much more fun explaining what a Scion is.

SirScion
Polar White XB 2005

This really has been an unusually amazing thread...

...blah blah blah... (20 minutes later)

Now, what about the younger generation? Without all the Scion hype 18-30 year-olds...

...wuah wuah wuah wuah (think Charlie Brown's teacher)... (40 minutes later)

...Thanks for contributing! Peace!

There's nothing that makes a guy look older than a looooong, rambling post. I now understand why you'd proudly slap a Toyota badge on an xB.

Although I feel this guy got grumpy on me for my comments, don't comment on his age like that. . . it's not cool man. Gotta have respect for the older guys too, as we'll be there in a moment's notice.

I don't so much have a problem with xB's being sold to other demographics, I just disagree about an xB Toyota being a good idea. I think it's counterintuitive to every measure of sound business practice, and in the end, I want Toyota Motor Corp to be profitable (so they can keep making better, cooler cars for competitive prices). Scion's mission is to be different, it shows in every way. Playing risky games with brands, especially this early, is asking for problems, historically speaking. I want to write more, but I think I've already repeated the same things like 20 times.

even ashamed of being seen in a Scion

If you're not "ashamed of being seen in a Scion," why in the hell did you make it a toyota in the first place?

Although I feel this guy got grumpy on me for my comments, don't comment on his age like that. . . it's not cool man. Gotta have respect for the older guys too, as we'll be there in a moment's notice.
Then again, you don't know how old I am, do you? :wink:

I bought my xB to comute in. Funny thing, both the Matrix and xB are targeted towards the "younger" market of 18-25, and here I am at 40! Well, I bought the Xr abd xB in my late 30s.

I guess I'll never grow up. I've been modding Toyotas since 1982 when I graduated high school.

Sorry, I just kinda assumed. . . I get real defensive of the geysers (my dad is very old, but can still hold his own). Not that you were being extremely rude or anything, but I just see too many older people get rude treatment from their kids, and if I had it my way, I'd beat those kids senseless. There's no more respect for age and experience anymore in this day and age, you feel me?

Sorry, I just kinda assumed. . . I get real defensive of the geysers (my dad is very old, but can still hold his own). Not that you were being extremely rude or anything, but I just see too many older people get rude treatment from their kids, and if I had it my way, I'd beat those kids senseless. There's no more respect for age and experience anymore in this day and age, you feel me?

YUP! I used to see it everyday when I was working.

Too much badging going on in the back IMO. I'd lose the Toyota emblem on the bottom right, since you already have the Toyota logo emblem on, and everyone knows what compay that is.

And why is it that practically every state (other than cali) puts on dealer decals on the car? I'd surely ask for them to take it off/order one w/o it.

But as for the topic itself, I voted No. There is no need. The xB is fine exactly as it is.

Agreed.

I'm not sure I see how a bunch of mismatched badges and a TRD sticker on the steering wheel makes your car look more mature.

I can see doing a JDM conversion, but this just confuses me....anyway.

I'm 32, so I'm just outside of the age group Toyota was shooting for, but who cares?

IMO a mature adult shouldn't care one way or the other what people think about the kind of car they drive. If you do, buy something non-descript like a Camry and be like everyone else, or get a book on self-esteem and drive whatever you want and be proud of it.

I didn't buy my Scion because it's PHAT or DOPE, I got it because underneath the Gen-Y Anime cartoon wrapper, it's really just a practical little Toyota wagon which is all I freakin wanted in the first place! :D

As far as your poll, I think you missed the point Toyota was aiming for. The entire point of Scion is to attract younger buyers to Toyota products while remaining as seperate as possible from the decidedly un-hip Camry type products. They don't want to remind the kids with 6 piercing and 4 tattoos of their Dad's Highlander. get it?

See...

Toyota does not want you and I to buy a Scion, they are too inexpensive.

They want me to buy a Matrix XRS or a Celica, or possibly an IS300 (since I went to college)

They want you to buy a 4Runner or a Lexus RX330.

Demographics....marketing......

It's just how it works. Toyota spends millions to figure out PRECISELY who they need to market which products to and how. The handful of people that fall outside the norm don't really have any influence on their decisions, nor should they.

You went ahead and bought an xB anyway, the lack of a Toyota badge wasn't enough to stop you. :)

BTW, they do make an "xB for Grownups" but they don't sell it here.

I wouldn't mind one of these, too bad they would not sell well in the land of big and macho SUV's.

http://www.outrefranc.com/modeles/toyota/img/yarisverso2.jpg
http://www.outrefranc.com/modeles/toyota/img/yarisverso3.jpg
http://www.outrefranc.com/modeles/toyota/img/yarisverso.jpg

There's even an uber-practical 1.4 liter turbodiesel option.

Question: what the hell is the point of this thread?

Question: what the hell is the point of this thread? Hmmm... not our most promising Presidential candidate huh? :roll:
J.K.

It's not "required reading" and there won't be a quiz, so just skip this thread if you find it too annoying.


http://www.outrefranc.com/modeles/toyota/img/yarisverso2.jpg
Thanks for this nest . Where are they selling this? (I'm guessing Europe based on the photos?)


I didn't buy my Scion because it's PHAT or DOPE, I got it because underneath the Gen-Y Anime cartoon wrapper, it's really just a practical little Toyota wagon which is all I freakin wanted in the first place!


Exactly what I am saying! If so many of us "outside the agegroup" buyers where buying the Toyota underneath... what is anyone getting so defensive about it saying Toyota on the outside?



As far as your poll, I think you missed the point Toyota was aiming for. The entire point of Scion is to attract younger buyers to Toyota products while remaining as seperate as possible from the decidedly un-hip Camry type products. They don't want to remind the kids with 6 piercing and 4 tattoos of their Dad's Highlander. get it?


Read the quote over again and stop for a second to hear what we are saying: Kids will not buy an "Old Man's" car but we will buy a "Kid's Car" because?... we are so much more mature? and don't care what people think? We are so much smarter than the young and can see through the marketing? That seems to be a consistent point throughout the thread. I think maybe a previous poster's comment might make sense here; "Old" doesn't mind being "young" but who actually wants to be "old"? Maybe if that is true it might explain some of the emotion in some of these posts.

I just don't think you can preach the necessity of specialized brand marketing for the xB without acknowledging that this vehicle has a commercialized public image as a...
how was it put... "Gen-Y Anime cartoon " car. (Actually, I like that description! I think it is right on the nose :D ) If you can recognize that as a Toyota-branded xB, that despite everything else, it simply would not have been a kewl Gen Y-mobile... then you are admitting that a couple of silly badges DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. I happen to agree with that point of view. I think without the Scion nameplates and marketing scheme, the xB would have been just another (albeit for the present unusually-shaped) great little practical economy car. The shape was designed for the most practical use of space and not to be "cool" or radical as the xB was originally designed for the middle-aged Japanese urban commuter not young American Gen Y car mod street-racers.

If all it took was new badges and a marketed image to sell a car that would have been of no interest to younger buyers, then it is the badges and the marketing that made the xB a youthmobile. It then has to follow that removing the trademarks of that image (Scion) leaves just the car which was supposedly too uncool to market as a Toyota. If we older buyers were buying it for the Toyota underneath, we would not have been deterred by the lack of the Scion marketing/badging; Toyota would have been okay with us. If we were so unabashedly secure that the "youth image" of the Scion nameplates on the xB didn't stop us buying one, doesn't it follow by the same logic that we also would have been just as "secure" buying an uncool Toyota?

Think about it.

Otherwise I see your point about Toyota wanting to sell older, more financially-established buyers a more expensive car; good point.

However, you would be in error to refer to xB buyers over 35 years of age as a "handful of people that fall outside the norm". Sales statistic say otherwise; we are the majority buyers, not some minority handful.


You went ahead and bought an xB anyway, the lack of a Toyota badge wasn't enough to stop you.

:lol: True on both counts!

Of course, the VIN tag and the engine already have Toyota rather than Scion on them and the dealer and eBay made short work of the other "missing" Toyota badges. :D

Only thing I don't understand is the Torneo emblem.
(course I didn't read all that crap, I started to get a headache, so I may have missed it)

I personally dont care what you do it, its yours, enjoy it!

Seems like with the interest this thread is generating, I think it might be nice to have our age as an option to enter in our profiles. That way along with our different avatars and locations, we could display our ages ??

BTW...a car that not only appeals to the younger generation, but to the older generation as well ? Each one of us might think that we are smart for deciding to buy a xB, but guess who the really smart one is ?? You guessed it.........Toyota.

some FYI..37 yrs old as stated earlier.....I was looking at the RX330..but instead opted for the value and uniqueness of the XB........and I have 3 other cars which car do you think I drive ALL the time

id say 80% of the people with xb's around here are in there late 40's or higher. i think thats cool. everyone else wants the tc, i even thought about tradin mine for one, then an old man with a hot ___ hot lava said "the xb is just so much cooler dude." so i changed my mind
oh and brittany spears mom has an xb

Seems like with the interest this thread is generating, I think it might be nice to have our age as an option to enter in our profiles.

Only if we can have two:

Age (chronological)
Age (actual)

:)

George

How about a poll ? Like the one "What color did you get". That way we could make it a sticky and get a good cross section and still remain anonymous.

I'm 54 years old and have two grandchildren. I have 76 miles on my new xB, silver Scion.

I live in a nice neighborhood of San Diego and no body cares at all about what I drive if it isn't a 550 SL. I make calls on some of the most wealthy people in San Diego and I'll be happy to drive up Mt. Solodad in my Scion.

It just seems to me that you went to a lot of work to kiss the butt of people who you should ignore. There is more cachet to a Scion than to any Toyota ever built.

I replaced my 93 Previa Van with my Scion. We also own a 2004 RAV 4, a 2002 Avalon, a 2001 Corolla and a 99 Camry.

My Scion is the best of the bunch.

Yes, silly little badges do make a difference. . . why do you think the 95-97 Toyota Corolla absolutely devastated the Geo Prism in sales, despite the Geo being better priced with incentives, and being the SAME EXACT CAR, built out of the Toyota/GM coop plant in Fremont. There was a model update from 98-01 models, and Chevy axed the Geo brand (due to a negative image), and the Prism sales went up more than proportionally to the Corolla sales. Brands, images, and badges are important. . . again very very basic business concepts. Scion was designed to be an exclusive brand. . . and preserving that image is important. . . not to mention that redundant models cost money (inventory, allocation, production, sales, marketing). And there is the Echo, which is nearly the same car, that has a little less headroom and cargo space, but is the same thing as the xB.

nowellwisch



Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 1
Location: san diego
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:43 pm Post subject: Rebadging

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm 54 years old and have two grandchildren. I have 76 miles on my new xB, silver Scion.

I live in a nice neighborhood of San Diego and no body cares at all about what I drive if it isn't a 550 SL. I make calls on some of the most wealthy people in San Diego and I'll be happy to drive up Mt. Solodad in my Scion.

It just seems to me that you went to a lot of work to kiss the butt of people who you should ignore. There is more cachet to a Scion than to any Toyota ever built.

I replaced my 93 Previa Van with my Scion. We also own a 2004 RAV 4, a 2002 Avalon, a 2001 Corolla and a 99 Camry.

My Scion is the best of the bunch.



Welcome...Enjoy......And I bet most of the people on this site aren't that far from your age group

nowellwisch



Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 1
Location: san diego
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:43 pm Post subject: Rebadging

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm 54 years old and have two grandchildren. I have 76 miles on my new xB, silver Scion.

I live in a nice neighborhood of San Diego and no body cares at all about what I drive if it isn't a 550 SL. I make calls on some of the most wealthy people in San Diego and I'll be happy to drive up Mt. Solodad in my Scion.

It just seems to me that you went to a lot of work to kiss the butt of people who you should ignore. There is more cachet to a Scion than to any Toyota ever built.

I replaced my 93 Previa Van with my Scion. We also own a 2004 RAV 4, a 2002 Avalon, a 2001 Corolla and a 99 Camry.

My Scion is the best of the bunch.



Welcome...Enjoy......And I bet most of the people on this site aren't that far from your age group

nowellwisch



Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 1
Location: san diego
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:43 pm Post subject: Rebadging

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm 54 years old and have two grandchildren. I have 76 miles on my new xB, silver Scion.

I live in a nice neighborhood of San Diego and no body cares at all about what I drive if it isn't a 550 SL. I make calls on some of the most wealthy people in San Diego and I'll be happy to drive up Mt. Solodad in my Scion.

It just seems to me that you went to a lot of work to kiss the butt of people who you should ignore. There is more cachet to a Scion than to any Toyota ever built.

I replaced my 93 Previa Van with my Scion. We also own a 2004 RAV 4, a 2002 Avalon, a 2001 Corolla and a 99 Camry.

My Scion is the best of the bunch.



Welcome...Enjoy......And I bet most of the people on this site aren't that far from your age group.

If you don't mind me asking WHAT THE HELL IS A TOYOTA TORNEO????!!!!!! The Toyota work emblem isn't in the right place look at a corolla or echo and see how the emblems are placed. THe xB is not an suv .

If you don't mind me asking WHAT THE HELL IS A TOYOTA TORNEO????!!!!!! The Toyota work emblem isn't in the right place look at a corolla or echo and see how the emblems are placed. THe xB is not an suv .

The Torneo is a HONDA! :shock:

http://www.autoksk.ru/image/products/DSC00327-1.JPG

Mind if I say that is ugly!!!

That is sort of like putting an Element and Honda Emblem on an xB anybody got a pic of that wonder how it looks.

ok just had a thought

this would almost be like the GM thing posted earlier in this thread. the Aztec (ugliest thing in the world) shares the same stuff with the Buick Rendezouis (cant spell) it just wouldnt work out. how can you maks a xB be different for the Toyota side of things. my car is already registered in NY as a toyota so it becomes confusing already. what is your car regestered as. i tell everyonre its a toyota scion xB thats so i dont have to explain about toyota this and scion that and Lexus this. and since sales showed that Toyota customers arent as youns as the honda/acura croud or anything like that.

in my opinion i dont think there should be a lexus or an infiniti or a Acura brands. its just too confusing for everyone.

it druives me cracy when people buy the lexus LX430 (i think thats what it is) compared to the Toyota Land Cruiser. i mean paying 7000 more for a logo is just stupid. i'd betcha if they parked next to a Land Cruiser they would be ____ed with toyota.

i know i would. same with the camry and the lexus ES330. wwhy would you pay 32000 for a toyota camry with HID's and leather.

i like my xB/bB and i plan to JDM it

Of course, it's made by Toyota but show me Chevrolet on your Cadillac registration/title, VIN plate or engine.


Sorry, I just had to say this.

Pop the hood on a Cadillac CTS-V, pure Chevy under the hood.

I also bought my xB for its looks and to market with it. I average over 100 web hits a day now.

Thanks for this nest . Where are they selling this? (I'm guessing Europe based on the photos?)


The Yaris/Echo Verso is sold in Europe, Japan and Southeast Asian countries. It weighs very close to the same as an xB and the lengthened Echo/Yaris platform it uses is what the xB is built upon. They are very similar aside from the Verso's more aerodynamic shape and less aggressive gearing and suspension tuning.


Read the quote over again and stop for a second to hear what we are saying: Kids will not buy an "Old Man's" car but we will buy a "Kid's Car" because?... we are so much more mature? and don't care what people think? We are so much smarter than the young and can see through the marketing? That seems to be a consistent point throughout the thread. I think maybe a previous poster's comment might make sense here; "Old" doesn't mind being "young" but who actually wants to be "old"? Maybe if that is true it might explain some of the emotion in some of these posts.

I just don't think you can preach the necessity of specialized brand marketing for the xB without acknowledging that this vehicle has a commercialized public image as a...
how was it put... "Gen-Y Anime cartoon " car. (Actually, I like that description! I think it is right on the nose :D ) If you can recognize that as a Toyota-branded xB, that despite everything else, it simply would not have been a kewl Gen Y-mobile... then you are admitting that a couple of silly badges DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. I happen to agree with that point of view. I think without the Scion nameplates and marketing scheme, the xB would have been just another (albeit for the present unusually-shaped) great little practical economy car. The shape was designed for the most practical use of space and not to be "cool" or radical as the xB was originally designed for the middle-aged Japanese urban commuter not young American Gen Y car mod street-racers.


Well...then it sounds like we agree? (I think)



If all it took was new badges and a marketed image to sell a car that would have been of no interest to younger buyers, then it is the badges and the marketing that made the xB a youthmobile. It then has to follow that removing the trademarks of that image (Scion) leaves just the car which was supposedly too uncool to market as a Toyota. If we older buyers were buying it for the Toyota underneath, we would not have been deterred by the lack of the Scion marketing/badging; Toyota would have been okay with us. If we were so unabashedly secure that the "youth image" of the Scion nameplates on the xB didn't stop us buying one, doesn't it follow by the same logic that we also would have been just as "secure" buying an uncool Toyota?

Think about it.

Otherwise I see your point about Toyota wanting to sell older, more financially-established buyers a more expensive car; good point.

However, you would be in error to refer to xB buyers over 35 years of age as a "handful of people that fall outside the norm". Sales statistic say otherwise; we are the majority buyers, not some minority handful.



Well I don't think it's the Scion nameplate alone that sells the cars. Toyota's image is simply too conservative (especially in this country) for them to ever introduce the Toyota Bb as a Toyota Bb. It's the unfamiliarity of the design AND the Scion nameplate that helps establish the Scion brand as a seperate entity in the mind of the consumer IMO. Boxy city cars like this are commonplace in Japan and Europe and don't get a second look, but here it's unusual. Most small American families that would be served well by an xB would never even consider it and move right past it to the 5000+ lb SUV land barge class vehicles as second nature. Toyota knows this so they don't even bother to sell it to the same audience they would in any other country (any of which has drivers that make more practical decisions than most Americans...)

Question: what the hell is the point of this thread? Hmmm... not our most promising Presidential candidate huh? :roll:
J.K.

It's not "required reading" and there won't be a quiz, so just skip this thread if you find it too annoying.


I didn't buy my Scion because it's PHAT or DOPE, I got it because underneath the Gen-Y Anime cartoon wrapper, it's really just a practical little Toyota wagon which is all I freakin wanted in the first place!


Exactly what I am saying! If so many of us "outside the agegroup" buyers where buying the Toyota underneath... what is anyone getting so defensive about it saying Toyota on the outside?

As far as your poll, I think you missed the point Toyota was aiming for. The entire point of Scion is to attract younger buyers to Toyota products while remaining as seperate as possible from the decidedly un-hip Camry type products. They don't want to remind the kids with 6 piercing and 4 tattoos of their Dad's Highlander. get it?


Read the quote over again and stop for a second to hear what we are saying: Kids will not buy an "Old Man's" car but we will buy a "Kid's Car" because?... we are so much more mature? and don't care what people think? We are so much smarter than the young and can see through the marketing? That seems to be a consistent point throughout the thread. I think maybe a previous poster's comment might make sense here; "Old" doesn't mind being "young" but who actually wants to be "old"? Maybe if that is true it might explain some of the emotion in some of these posts.

I just don't think you can preach the necessity of specialized brand marketing for the xB without acknowledging that this vehicle has a commercialized public image as a...
how was it put... "Gen-Y Anime cartoon " car. (Actually, I like that description! I think it is right on the nose :D ) If you can recognize that as a Toyota-branded xB, that despite everything else, it simply would not have been a kewl Gen Y-mobile... then you are admitting that a couple of silly badges DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. I happen to agree with that point of view. I think without the Scion nameplates and marketing scheme, the xB would have been just another (albeit for the present unusually-shaped) great little practical economy car. The shape was designed for the most practical use of space and not to be "cool" or radical as the xB was originally designed for the middle-aged Japanese urban commuter not young American Gen Y car mod street-racers.

If all it took was new badges and a marketed image to sell a car that would have been of no interest to younger buyers, then it is the badges and the marketing that made the xB a youthmobile. It then has to follow that removing the trademarks of that image (Scion) leaves just the car which was supposedly too uncool to market as a Toyota. If we older buyers were buying it for the Toyota underneath, we would not have been deterred by the lack of the Scion marketing/badging; Toyota would have been okay with us. If we were so unabashedly secure that the "youth image" of the Scion nameplates on the xB didn't stop us buying one, doesn't it follow by the same logic that we also would have been just as "secure" buying an uncool Toyota?

Think about it.

Otherwise I see your point about Toyota wanting to sell older, more financially-established buyers a more expensive car; good point.

However, you would be in error to refer to xB buyers over 35 years of age as a "handful of people that fall outside the norm". Sales statistic say otherwise; we are the majority buyers, not some minority handful.

Of course, the VIN tag and the engine already have Toyota rather than Scion on them and the dealer and eBay made short work of the other "missing" Toyota badges. :DIt, um, still is a funny looking little economy car made by toyota. All your bloviating about how older people are so much smarter and can see through the marketing is bull____. Generation Y is the most shamelessly marketed-to generation in history, we're a lot more media literate than you give us credit for.

When it comes down to it, the xB is the ideal car for teenagers for the same reasons it's a good one for older people. It's a toyota, which means there won't be many repair/upkeep costs. It's fuel-efficent, which means I can drive without breaking the bank or sending a ton of money to Saudi Arabia. It's got a great interior and awesome leg room. The motor isn't huge, but that's a good way to get parents on board for the purchase. The stereo has pretty much everything you could want from a car stereo. Oh yeah, and did I mention it looks cool?

It, um, still is a funny looking little economy car made by toyota. All your bloviating about how older people are so much smarter and can see through the marketing is bull____. Generation Y is the most shamelessly marketed-to generation in history, we're a lot more media literate than you give us credit for.

When it comes down to it, the xB is the ideal car for teenagers for the same reasons it's a good one for older people. It's a toyota, which means there won't be many repair/upkeep costs. It's fuel-efficent, which means I can drive without breaking the bank or sending a ton of money to Saudi Arabia. It's got a great interior and awesome leg room. The motor isn't huge, but that's a good way to get parents on board for the purchase. The stereo has pretty much everything you could want from a car stereo. Oh yeah, and did I mention it looks cool?

It sounds like we all agree on more than we disagree on. :)

The Toyota Bb was targeted at young city dwellers in Japan, nothing groundbreaking in it's segment except for it's more angular than usual styling----a roomy city car that meets the needs of someone who requires more room than the average subcompact car affords, but is unwilling or unable to sacrifice the low cost of owership and compact car manoverability.

It makes perfect sense that they would market this vehicle to the 18-25 year old segment. The Echo was originally intended to satisfy that group but fell far short of the mark. Toyota had an ready-made tried and true vehicle for the home market that would not only attract attention with it's unusual styling, but also nicely dovetailed into America's love of all things remotely truck or SUV-like in appearance.

Regardless of what Toyota's marketing inspirations may have been, I think we all agree that the merits of these little cars transcend demographics and appeal to just about anyone with an appreciation for intelligent, efficient design.

Amen!

Uh... I'll warn you.. Look Down :!:

This is a L O O O O O O N N N N G G G G G one!
:oops: Sorry! (Never have been a man of few words :D )



It, um, still is a funny looking little economy car made by toyota. All your bloviating about how older people are so much smarter and can see through the marketing is bull____. Generation Y is the most shamelessly marketed-to generation in history, we're a lot more media literate than you give us credit for.


One of the obvious problems with overexplaining a point-of-view like I do is that the posts become so mecilessly long and include so many quotes that readers become confused about the details. I was not the one claiming that older people are so much smarter; an early reply made this claim and I strongly disagreed with that point of view. I even stated clearly that I think that Gen Y buyers are too smart to buy into a commercially marketed "kewl". Its like me trying to tell my 19 yr old son and 17 yr old daughter that they should buy something because I read that the manufacturer says it's supposed to be for young folks. When it comes down to it, I beleive that GenY buyers establish their own trends and Toyota trying to trick buyers into "joining" the "trend" is too thin to work.


For what it's worth, I stopped by my Scion dealer today. Almost the entire dealership came out to see my "Toyota" as word spread that I was out front. It attracted quite a crowd although there were several other xB's on-site. It was like a little carshow for about 20 minutes in front of the showroom! Unlike this thread, the browsing customers, salesmen, bodyshop techs, secretaries and other dealership employees had very favorable comments about the "conversion". Some of the most repeated questions were about the sources for the badges and red/amber OE style taillights and the amber front factory foglamps. Several salesmen in a small group at the rear were in agreement that they were equally amazed at how "convincingly" it could pass for a genuine factory Toyota set-up. Pretty much overall the same reaction I get from those that have seen my xB that were in on the joke as well.


The salesmen readily agree that the Scion marketing concept is not working overall for the xB; the tC and xA-YES but for the xB, a resounding NO!!. They and auto-reviewers insights and comments was were I got the idea to poll about the Toyota xB possibility to begin with! They see first-hand who is buying the xB and the overwhelming majority are older buyers who are buying it for all the anti-Scion, Toyota un-cool practical reasons that make all the special marketing hype unecessary. There are buyers within the market target-group (GenY), but these are in the minority and the dealers recognize that the "sell" is not working.

While the intent was obvious, trends are notoriously difficult to read. What makes a car a GenY fave is not something that a marketing strategy is necessarily going to have success putting a finger on. The sales figures that the dealers are turning in are saying the attempt to entice younger buyers is working with the xA and tC so far but is is not hitting the numbers with the xB.

It is only a matter of time if that trend continues that Toyota will recognize that, if the xB appeals to older buyers and not sufficient numbers of their current target, they will either need to retarget or shelve the model. For now it's all theory and conjecture; I'd be the first to admit that there is no crystal ball here. However, no corporation as successful as Toyota ignores sales figures or fails to track the effectiveness of their advertising/marketing against the actual buyer demographic that generates those sales.

There was a mild suggestion that there are rumors that a more aero xB-type like the Yaris (see early post with pictures) might arrive in the US shortly as part of the Toyota line-up. What would that mean for the future of "My Little Toaster"? Too early to tell.

ok just had a thought

this would almost be like the GM thing posted earlier in this thread. the Aztec (ugliest thing in the world) shares the same stuff with the Buick Rendezouis (cant spell) it just wouldnt work out. how can you maks a xB be different for the Toyota side of things. my car is already registered in NY as a toyota so it becomes confusing already. what is your car regestered as. i tell everyonre its a toyota scion xB thats so i dont have to explain about toyota this and scion that and Lexus this. and since sales showed that Toyota customers arent as youns as the honda/acura croud or anything like that.

in my opinion i dont think there should be a lexus or an infiniti or a Acura brands. its just too confusing for everyone.



AMEN!! I agree 1000%

What is it about us... I mean Americans.... that we seem to "attract" all these micro-brand divisions in our car companies? Too many years of Detroit brainwashing? :roll: European and Japanese buyers have price-ranges and models from ultra-cheap to bucks-deluxe under the same Brand names without having to split them into specially-marketed cliques. Only here do we have to have the "luxury Toyota" as a Lexus and the "youngster Toyota" as a Scion; they are all just Toyota's in Japan. The youngsters know what's "young" and those looking for luxury understand that they are looking for a Soarer or a Harrier and not an Altis!
Even Benz has $30K models and $135K models under the same hood-star. (You have to cross $350K to go to the Maybach as a distinctive line.) Either the Japanese have completely misread us or... we really DO have a real thing for those brand-niche's. :?



bBlover wrote:
If you don't mind me asking WHAT THE HELL IS A TOYOTA TORNEO????!!!!!! The Toyota work emblem isn't in the right place look at a corolla or echo and see how the emblems are placed. THe xB is not an suv .

The xB is called a 5dr wagon so you are correct that it is not an SUV.... BUT it is not a sedan with a DECKLID like the Corolla or Echo. The xB's sheer vertical hatch is more like the 4Runner, RAV4, or Sienna.

Besides... What? Are there rules for customizing badges? Look real hard and I'll bet real $$ you wont find any of my posts calling anybody elses modifications "silly" or "incorrect". What the hell is a Torneo? What took somebody so long to ask?

See below:


The Torneo is a HONDA!


8) HA HA! I was wondering when somebody was finally going to say something about the Torneo. YEP it is a JDM Accord badge. I wanted to come up with a plausibly Toyota-sounding name for my rebadged xB and I was not satisfied with the JDM "bB" badges. They are okay (please don't anyone take offense) but I wanted a spelled-out name.


So far, everybody who has seen it has fallen for it hook, line, and sinker. They completely believe without reservation that this is a new model. The engine says "Toyota", the registration says "Toyota", and everything else on the xB (besides the OE badging) like the ID tag and all the glass says Toyota too. So why shouldn't they think it is a Toyota? Very very few people know of the Honda Torneo and even fewer have actually seen one. The "T" name sounds like it would follow a series of names like "Tacoma" or "Tundra". You can disagree all you want with that but I'm driving around in mine and I know it works.

Only you exceptionally savvy Scion folks and a very select few are not taken in.
:D


I'm 54 years old and have two grandchildren. I have 76 miles on my new xB, silver Scion.

I live in a nice neighborhood of San Diego and no body cares at all about what I drive if it isn't a 550 SL. I make calls on some of the most wealthy people in San Diego and I'll be happy to drive up Mt. Solodad in my Scion.

It just seems to me that you went to a lot of work to kiss the butt of people who you should ignore.


Good for you! Nobody generally is too concerned what anyone drives unless you are part of the Maybach/Rolls/Bentley crowd and park your xB in the "Reserved for CEO" slot. It might suggest that your stock is in trouble! :shock: :o

I gave what I thought was one of a couple of plausible reasons for engaging in what has been a fun project for me; rebadging an xB to its corporate roots. I don't seriously think that what I drive would have any measurable effect on my ability to turn a buck; my customers call me because I have been there for them for 25 years and I take good care of them and make them happy. As long as I don't leave oil and rusted-off parts in the driveway, they are ok. However, you will have to give me credit for knowing MY customers, not simply by region or income-group, but individually in person. Conducting business often begins as I pull up in the drive and at the car when I leave, passing their cars en-route. A fair number of them are interested in what I drive and like to talk cars; theirs and mine. For those that do, my Toyota is unique among an already unusual group of current vehicles. Many of my customers are Honda and Toyota fans. Badging to Toyota gave me a creative outlet to personalize my xB and make it unique whereas a JDM body kit, 18" alloys, and heavy vinyl street-racer graphic's over wild color-changing pearl-paint would hardly go over as a serious businessman's serious vehicle. The Toyota on the otherhand comes across as a smart practical choice with very little explanation. I have had several customers that said they would have considered buying one of these but seeing only the Scion's and not knowing the Toyota-connection, assumed that these were not serious transportation but an unknown company's attempt at a trendy "kiddie-car".


So... You shouldn't try to read to much into it and try making comparisons. I'm not asking anyone on this BBS to agree or understand. I am very successful at what I do and being in tune with some of the subtler aspects of my own "marketing" strategies to tune in with customer perceptions and moods is a cashable asset that works for me. This hobbyist thread can disagree all it wants but its all immaterial anyway. I have no vested interest in changing any of the readers minds here and they are sure as anything not going say something illuminating that will contravene what personal experience in my own context has proven for me to be incontrovertable fact.

We could agree to disagree here and not bother to waste anymore of anyone's time slinging personal assaults about the merit (or lack of merit) behind my reasons for changing my badges.

I am likewise not seeking my customer's "approval" anymore than I am looking for "validation" from Scion owners on this website. I'm "secure" enough to tell you that I LIKE MY BADGES exactly the way they are. (I never advocated that anyone should remove theirs either, so I accept the same remarks from xB owners who like their OE emblems; to each his own.)


Unless something catastrophic happens to it :cry: my xB will be adding a 100+ miles a day to its odometer as it cruises Southeastern Virginia roads and will be seen parked in front of mobile homes and 10,000 square feet Colonials in gated communities, Torneo badges... Toyota badges and all. And the great thing is, based on the general pulse of xB owners on this site, it will likely be completely exclusive as only a few seem to think my rebadging was a neat idea and it is unlikely to start a trend .....

Unless... Toyota decides to remarket the xB as a Toyota afterall! :twisted:
Not that it really matters to me. I already got my Toyota!

Now... I think the word is "peace out"
I've got $$ to make :wink:

i did not vote yet, because i don't really care about what i think matches up to what the others think on this post. But i did want to say...

i think they should remarket it with a left turn signal Constantly on, Heater in Full blast, Talk Radio (only), and it should be loud enough that you just can't make out what they're saying unless you squint and put your ear right next to the speaker.

Then they should rebadge it under the "Senior" badge. i think it might sell....he he he

As funny as I find that only 7 people disagree out of the 91 people who voted, why oh why did you have to dig up an OLD post, Wesman. No pun intended, this thread is ancient. The last time anybody posted was almost a year ago. . . last December, in fact, which qualifies as LAST year. That's 2004!!!!

wow....this came from like Page 10 of my 'My Posts' section!

i'm so out of it i don't erven know what fast & furious is... ha, and i like it!

i just search for a keyword, and this popped up, i didn't even notice how old the thread was when i posted in it. Didn't really care either. Some new scionlifer will probably find this interesting and continue to post here.

That is the XB.
A clean slate to mod as one sees fit. One is sporty lowered with engine
upgrades, one is stock with hub caps, and one is used as a sales billboard.
Unique diversity by design. One might think maturity can be told by the
type of mods you perform. As I have see, maturity makes no difference,
its the pleasure and style of the individual that makes the car.
Myself 43 years of age.
Xb used as a daily driver, lowered with rims, bolt on upgrades, and a nice
stereo. Its what you make out of it.

Another 'more mature' driver here - 59 this year.

I thought about this and decided I don't mind the "Scion" tag at all. I don't need it to be called a Toyota here, even though it is in the rest of the world.

Since there is an apreciable 'older' buyer segment interested in this vehicle simply because it's not 'mainstream' and it's extremely practical.

I would be quite satisfied if Toyota/Scion would come out with some 'more practical' options (cruise control, serious interior lighting, etc.) rather that the primarily "flash" options (multicolor cup-holder lighting, slippery pedal trim, etc.)

I don't need to be separated from the 'youth culture' buyers, I bought my odd little box 'cause I like it, but I'd also like to buy some options that make sense.

I find it faintly ridulous that I can by fancy underdash/underseat/cupholder lighting in 'fashion' colors, but that I can't buy a decent overhead light for the cargo area or a set of decent maplights for the front.

Don't discontinue the 'flash' and 'bling', just add some 'practical' for those (of ANY age) who want it...

Doesn't look more "mature" just more goofy with all the badging on it. Toyota is having no problems selling xBs to an older demographic. This is a silly thread.

i just search for a keyword, and this popped up, i didn't even notice how old the thread was when i posted in it. Didn't really care either. Some new scionlifer will probably find this interesting and continue to post here.

I'm definitely not forbidding you to post! :P I just figured that after 4 pages of heated debate, it had come to decent conclusion. . . it just sucks to light the flame to old arguments debates. . .

. . . one thing I always wonder about old threads, is whether or not people actually read through all the posts, or just read the first one and post their opinion (which may or may not have been stated 8 kagillion fofillion times in previous posts). I have no idea. . .

I think we just all have to calm down and realize that we have a fuel-efficient, economy car that looks like a box. If you are not mature enough to deal with it, than don't buy one, but if you do...why all this silly angst over trying to "impress" somebody with a $15,000 econo-box!! Good grief. The kids can play with it and add things to it and drop it and tint it and paint it and stick doo-dads all over it. The grown ups drive it because it is inexpensive, reliable, great mileage, lots of room! And that's that. Deal with it.

I bought my xB because it was ideal for our needs, as it stood there, and because it was a Toyota.

I don't care if it *says* Toyota or Scion on it. Labels don't matter. The only reason I'm happy about the Scion brand is the no-haggle policy. If it were a Toyota I'd have had to dicker over the price, and I hate that. And these days, it's entirely possible the dealer would be charging more than sticker price.

I agree with Tomas that the emphasis on fashion over functionality in the available mods is a weakness. Fortunately, none of the missing stuff is critical; a stock xB is a fully functional and highly desirable car just as it is.

RichC

OMG!

I didn't even realize this was an old thread, I don't look at the dates.

Anyways....if you wanted a Toyota brand name you should have bought a Toyota branded car. Who cares how old you are? Making excuses for why you bought a cheap different looking car? Then over doing the emblems why? To make sure ppl know its a Toyota brand? All ppl have to do it "look it up" Im sure they have internet if they're so high and mighty! lol

We bought ours, well wait we wanted ours before we even knew it was a Toyota! We loved it ON SIGHT!! Then found it was a Toyota and that made is seem even better!! I dont care what name is on it we would have bought it with Toyota emblems! I think most ppl would have but I also think the name Scion is used for orginiality and maybe to be unique like the car looks! It fits why change that!!

Age ain't nothing but a number!!!

BTW! The thread title is an INSULT!

Im grown-up!! My car does NOT make me a grown-up!! I DO!!!

If you "think" its for younger folks DONT BUY IT!

Its simple really! JMHO!

:D Hello All.

Not to start off knocking Toyota's marketing

It seems Toyota, with its Scion brand, has accomplished pretty much what it intended. That said, they've garnered spill-over buyers with the xB to the likes of you and I (40 somethings). Remember, with all three models they are ahead of projected sales and will not meet demand in '05.

They've certainly attracted a younger demographic to Toyota - with the ultimate goal of keeping them around - stepping through the brands via Scion - Toyota - and ultimately Lexus.
By creating this 'kids brand' they lured a financially challenged adult to Toyota. I really can't see myself in a compact car other than the xB. Maybe an ego thing. I started my shopping for used midsize wagons before being sucked in by the xB.

I believe the local dealer here is dissapointed by the low sales of the Scion brand here. At the same time they do not 'market' it much more than hanging the shingle out. That's OK by me. I've driven enough nondiscript cars through the years it is nice to have something a bit different.

That said - an all wheel drive, up-powered, reskinned, luxury version - for say $25,000 plus might interest some. I'd look at it after it had a couple years and a few miles on it. Someone has to buy other's used up vehicles. I was real close to testing a 'clean' Volvo wagon before Consumer's Report talked me out of it.

I believe they can not make they're demand! Just "try" to get any Scion here in LV and you will see! They are sold before they hit the dock in Long Beach!! I've been trying to get one for over two months. For "some" reason they aren't sending the one I want to any dealerships here!!!

I've given up I think and just decided to keep mine and go from here. Funny thing is tho I dont really see that many Scions on any given day. A lot of tC's mostly too.

Wow! Just looked at the poll numbers. Certainly am in the minority again.

Seems odd, so many show such a distinct defense of the Scion xB.

Sharing 'platforms' is a common, and 'parts bin technology' is WISE.

Does anyone have the sales numbers for the Echo, the xA, and the xB. One platform - Two brands - Three Models. All very distinct on the surface.

One more (read Lexus) wouldn't be that expensive an experiment for Toyota to try.

As long as it showed different lines, improved suspension, more power, more luxurious interior (Replace the hard plastic with something more supple), and sound deadening materials.

Again, I wouldn't buy it NEW - but would certainly look at the USED lot a couple-3 years down the road. Who knows - TheWife might even be interested.

I am a 47/M. I like the xb, the styling and the price. If you start increasing the price suddenly you have more competition. $15000 is good $20,000 don't know if I would buy it

Marty

I wouldn't buy this car for more than the 15g's I paid! Not even with sound deadening or whatever that is. The noise doesn't even bother me and plus I usually have the radio on and a couple kids in the box! lol

The xB is being bought by lots of older people, and young people. The xB is just that kind of car. You reach a certin age and you really don't care about the badge on your car. Kids care about what they are driving, but even to them the badge doesn't mater. The car is selling all over the place in the demographics to spite the kids car marketing why ____ money away on marketing, rebadgeing and dual product lines for the same product? If people buy xB's and don't want the Scion name on them they can remove the logo themselves, I think that was the original point anyway.

firstly, they created Scion because Toyota doesn't appeal to anyone under 45, 'cept tree huggers. etc.

They hoped that this entry level would make the owners of Scions eventually into a Toyota owner.

Secondly, if a car is marketed directly to you, age 45, it attracts 55 year olds and up. You can cast a wide net advertising to 18-34 and grab some 35-44, etc. because everyone thinks of themselves as at least 10 years younger in mind...

Enjoy the toy, 'cos that all the xB is.

Does anyone have the sales numbers for the Echo, the xA, and the xB. One platform - Two brands - Three Models. All very distinct on the surface.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but when first brought in it was expected by Toyota that the xA would outsell the xB...

What has happened instead is that for every xA sold there are about two xBs sold, and the Echo has been discontinued.

So three vehicles on the same platform have met different fates, and the one called Toyota and aimed at adults (Echo) has failed and the funny looking utility box has demand exceding supply...

So three vehicles on the same platform have met different fates, and the one called Toyota and aimed at adults (Echo) has failed and the funny looking utility box has demand exceding supply...

Not sure one could say the Echo, even though a Toyota, was aimed at adults. In fact, it might be argued the Scion brand, based on that platform came about because that little car, and its predecessors failed to lure the youth market.
With its demise, just maybe there is room under the Toyota banner to put in a mid or upscale boxish product.

Toyota execs could consider the xA a dissappointment as well - unless it met number projections while the xB just flat out exceded its.

One problem with building a more expensive version is putting into a stronger market segment??? As a $15,000 car there is little competition. That is, for something unique. When you tack another, say $10,000 on top of that the choices are expanded.

:lalala: The only way ppl know my car is a SCION, is by the SCION badge on the steering wheel + its sold as a scion. All the other markings on the car ie: every peice of glass says toyota, would make ppl thinks its a yota & it is. I have the JDM bB badge on the front, seeing thats the way its sold as a toyota (the bB does not have any Toyota badge on it, other then the door seal plate & other things like our xB). You do have way to many badges on the thing.

As for those options, not sure what dealer you went to, but mine will install sunroofs, leather, cruise & anything else you want. The most they have sold a optioned xB for, was right around $23k. So if the dealer is good, then you can get just about anything you want. If it was sold as a Toyota, I would see it costing more in fact ie: option groups with options you dont need, want etc. So its just a taste full thing.

As for making your Scion look like a toyota, I dont see older Honda drivers making there cars look like Acuras :lalala: Oh, also if you want the real up class, why not just go with Lexus badges?

If you want the XB marketed as a Toyota to appeal to people like yourself, then the car you have is not a good example of what you're looking for. You say you're not into "fast and furious", but you modded your car like crazy. I can't think of a single person I know over 50 who would do a fraction of what you've done to their cars. I know it was said in an earlier comment, but senior citizens who buy the XB leave it exactly as/is. You've done more modding than most teenagers who own this thing.
You don't exactly talk about Toyota in a postitive light ... EVERY review I've read about the Scion brand says Toyota hit a home run. ANYWAY, WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH?
And I agree, the back is crazy busy. You definitely need to pull some of that stuff off.
-fineEGOmaniac.

The whole point in the Scion brand was to go after the younger market which toyota has not been able to attract. So no, you old people keep your camry's and rav4's and let us young people bask in the brand of the Scion. j/k about old people but you know what I mean. And just in case you didn't, the post said make an xB for "grownups" which is what I am....just a younger version. tee hee hee

So three vehicles on the same platform have met different fates, and the one called Toyota and aimed at adults (Echo) has failed and the funny looking utility box has demand exceding supply...

Not sure one could say the Echo, even though a Toyota, was aimed at adults. In fact, it might be argued the Scion brand, based on that platform came about because that little car, and its predecessors failed to lure the youth market.
With its demise, just maybe there is room under the Toyota banner to put in a mid or upscale boxish product.

Toyota execs could consider the xA a dissappointment as well - unless it met number projections while the xB just flat out exceded its.

One problem with building a more expensive version is putting into a stronger market segment??? As a $15,000 car there is little competition. That is, for something unique. When you tack another, say $10,000 on top of that the choices are expanded.

Having been in both an Echo and my xB, it's amazing to think that they are based on the same platform. The Echo is so cramped compared to the Scion that it's no surprise that Echo sales tanked after the Scion came out. Yes, an adult will fit in an Echo, but it fits like a glove with one's body as the fingers. Not roomy by any criteria.

The funny little utility box sells because it is a very utilitarian vehicle. Most buyers could care less about the gen Y hype no matter what the marketers say. The xB would have sold well whether it was a Scion or a Toyota because it is has a great design. 90% of the xBs I see around my community are not blinged out. The drivers are perfectly happy with the vehicle as delivered.

George

man, this thread has more lives than Freddy Krueger, first it dies, then it comes back, then dies, and comes back...10 months later...man...hope it dies for good this time...

They have the same engine/transmission/suspension. Saying they have the same "platform" is misleading.

But yeah, this thread was started by an incredibly verbose, painfully stupid middle age person who doesn't want to be seen in a "teenager" car.

:rofl:

Yeah and he hasn't found his way back here either!!!


:rofl:

JK

They have the same engine/transmission/suspension. Saying they have the same "platform" is misleading.

I have no intention of misleading. Please explain, in detail, the difference between sharing the components you mention and sharing a platform.
I suspect the industry has some standard to go by when making these references. I'd be curious to know what that is.

it is platform sharing. just different sheetmetal and a lengthened chassis.

[quote="Max2k"]They have the same engine/transmission/suspension. Saying they have the same "platform" is misleading. [quote]

But that's what the word "platform" means, in car-speak. Not included in the platform are interior and exterior styling, and optional/ancillary features.

RichC

I love this discussion.

My 73 year old mother just bought an xB.

For all the reasons discussed above, there's no need to alter the car itself for the non-youth market.

What they DO need, however, are marketing materials aimed at my parents. Frankly, my parents were turned off by the youth-only brochures and DVD.

That's the only thing they need to do to accommodate the people buying the cars. Make marketing materials that are aimed at the different segments. That's how you sell--you market appropriately.

But with respect to owning one, it's just a car.

What initially attracted me to the xB was the vertical A pillar. The A pillar and windshield are similar to what's on my 1991 Mazda truck, which was much easier for my 6'-2" to slide into than any car made these days.

Then I realized the xB was almost identical to a Minicooper in engine, weight and handling, but with room for four, and only $15.5 K loaded.

I'm well over 50 and I needed a replacement for my 89 Bronco, which will be used when going to the mountains, camping etc. I don't think I would have bought it due to the acceleration, trans, engine noise, except that my golf buddy drives an Echo, with essentially the same drivetrain. My riding in his Echo convinced me of the soundness, decent performance, and value of his Echo and prepared me for the noise, quick revs and shifts of the auto trans. The Bronco prepped me for the harsh ride and wind noise.
So thus prepared, at 30 MPG , with room, and $18,000 out the door (cruise control and security sys, arm rest , carpets, and $67 exhaust tip!)- I was sold and haven't had any buyers remorse ( 1 Month).

P.S. I have owned and drive weekly a '71 VW Bus, so I know how to go slow...

Ditto, my salesman re the old farts buying the xB - He had an 80 something couple come in and buy "His and Her" xBs!

holy old thread!!!!.......still relevant though

I hate this thread with a violent passion.

I hate this thread with a violent passion.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
dude you need a hobby or something, maybe get out more....when you have such strong feelings about a thread..... :silly: :silly: :silly:

Well, since this thread as been brought back form the dead, I'll post up. I think 2 versions of the Box would be great.

I bought the xB because I really liked it, not because money was an inssue. So I would have gladly paid another $1500+ for a "premium" version.

It would have the following upgrades from the factory:
-More sound deadening
-Rear disc brakes
-Cruise control
-Adjustable int. front wipers and int. rear wiper
-More interior lighting
-130hp 1.8L 1ZZ engine (from the Corolla/Matrix) with a 6spd manual transaxle

I hate this thread with a violent passion.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
dude you need a hobby or something, maybe get out more....when you have such strong feelings about a thread..... :silly: :silly: :silly:Read the first few pages. This "torneodude" guy will make you want to bang your head against the wall.

I'm amazed someone didn't contribute that the scion brand, in addition to having a specific "image" associated with it, has the interesting feature of being limited production/high demand. Part of the appeal is that regular toyotas are a dime a dozen, but scions are hard to get and it's a bit of a gamble to get one.

That appeals to some people. Being unique is a feature in a car for some people. Toyotas are not really considered unique cars. I looked at the corolla and it was just so BLAND after seeing my xA.

Mainstreaming these cars as toyotas and mass producing them (since toyotas don't have limited production...they make as many as they think they can sell, whereas scions are produced in set quantities of colors and models) would lose the uniqueness factor both of the funny little utility box and the scion brand. Additionally, it would involve stripping out a lot of the features that we all really enjoy, then adding them as priced options (since that's the toyota buying model- a lot of the cars are "strippers" in their base form) would jack up the price of the car.

I really think that would lose sales. the monospec feature of this car appealed to me, as did the no hassle buying experience.

having a scion is in some ways more than owning a car- it's an experience from the moment you walk into the dealer. You can choose to enjoy that experience or not- but understand that the whole thing would be very different if the car was toyota. Gone is the ease of purchasing and the comfort of knowing exactly how much your car will cost you. Instead you can get locked with a dealer battling over price for hours, probably only to get the car at the cost of the scion you "didnt want."

The whole experience would change- making it "just a toyota." The interest in the scion brand is because it is new, almost a limited edition version of a toyota that is less...boring to own and drive. Throwing that out, and you have a box that a lot of older people will think is kinda ooglay. I know i am not particularly fond of the xB styling.

We buy what we like, but the idea of making a scion a toyota (and wasting money on a dual-brand model) seems stupid. I think toyota would lose as much as they gain if they did that- and clearly they don't plan to.

also, just for the record, putting a honda name badge on a scion is uber rice and it makes me want to stab myself in the eyes :no:

This guy clearly is so concerned with his rich clients and what they think of his car that he can't enjoy it. Personally, if someone drove up to my house in a weirdly badged car that I knew was something else, with crazy lights going on in the grille, I would be more concerned that if the car was plain. To me the plainer look is more mature. Anyway, rebadging the car (badly) just screams "I am not comfortable with my purchase" since it's not a JDM conversion, it's just a bunch of badges on there that say anything but scion.

This guy clearly is so concerned with his rich clients and what they think of his car that he can't enjoy it. Personally, if someone drove up to my house in a weirdly badged car that I knew was something else, with crazy lights going on in the grille, I would be more concerned that if the car was plain. To me the plainer look is more mature. Anyway, rebadging the car (badly) just screams "I am not comfortable with my purchase" since it's not a JDM conversion, it's just a bunch of badges on there that say anything but scion.

Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! After 5 pages and 1.5 hrs of detailed reading you hit the nail on the head...

He's so concerned that he wants Toyota to validate him by creating an xB with Toyota badges right from the factory! hmm... I wish you'd said earlier in the thread :rofl:

To go back a few posts (Yes, I did read the entire thread) there is a Toyota for grownups as mentioned before. Lexus, SUV's, Camry's etc.

What I really worry about is the gentrification of the xB. Anyone else remember when the PT Cruiser came out? It was the hot new thing, all the cool kids had to have one. Now what is it? A boring wagon owned almost entirely by the aging/retired set and fleet vehicles. How about the new Beetle? It's trying to hold on to people under 40, and not doing so well. It may well have been the respective companies' goal to get younger people into the fold and it worked for a little while. There are probably other examples too. Now no one would be caught dead in one. I really worry about it happening to the xB as it looks like it is already happening.

And on a second note about Honda's popularity with young people, the availability was a good point but I think slightly missing it. There are tons of used Honda cars around because they upgrade/trade in. What do Toyota people do? Buy a car and run it to death. They're both great brands, but one will have more cost-conscious people buying, and one will have 40 year olds with a 200k mile Camry.

No they shouldn't change/rebrand the Scion. Plain and simple. Nuff said. (Except I never stop there. Try to stay with me here, ok?)

There is a trend toward "generic" in the US. We have the generic US smile. Perfect teeth. Abnormally white ( for most skin types anyway ) and symetrical, etc. We have the generic trophy wife. Tall leggy blonde with size 32 minus AA bra size. And the Trophy Husband that gets his hair done at the same place you do and dies his hair one shade lighter than yours. And then the cars all start to look alike too. Curved, rounded, aero-dymanic look a like (on the outside anyway) clones. The budget car is shaped to look like the sports model etc etc.

I've always had trouble identifying cars because I am not a "car person". You don't want ME to witness a getaway car. But I always know the difference between a VW Beetle and say a "big blaok long truck looking car". The cops can count on me for that description every time.

We are all told what we "want" all the time. Most of us conform if truth be told. When we "rebel" we do it in ways that cause the least bit of disruption to our lives, usually. That is when you buy a SCION!!!!

The Scion is "different". It's got a stub nose. I mean "HELLO PASSENGERS", the thing HAS no front end. Aerodynamic or NOT. Not exactly "ugly". Just different and unexpected. It SCREAMS at you in a sea of rounded front ends.

Buying a Scion is like taking the step that the man that marries a little sawed off short girl with curves, intstead of the wife all his co-workers expected he was equipped to go after and get takes.

A Scion is an 'expression" for those that rebel. I don't CARE if somebody tells me that leather seats and fanny warmers are a measure of my success. I simply KNOW that LED light enhancements are what life is "all about'. :) (And I'll bet my kids are BETTER than THEIRS).

There are enough of us out there to make Toyota happy, I'll bet. VW made a killing off the same folks.

The xB "is" for grown-ups. Most just don't realize it, which is good. You want the fannywarmers. That can be mod # 82. Never really had an interest in the warmers. But I am working a mod to make the xB quieter on the inside. I may like the music loud sometimes, but if no music is on, and a conversation is about to take place I want to be ready for it, and be able to hear it clearly. Modify it if you want, but leave it a Scion xB. Unique is good. Don't think another manufacture will copy the xB very well. HHR's, PT's, Elements are as close as they will come to the "Box". At least that is what I hope. Stay unique, drive a modded box: your modded box.

there's a lot of interesting discussion here.

TorneoDude - In a nutshell, I think that you fell into the real allure of the 'toaster' despite yourself. To me, young or old, VIP or woody, the allure of the xB is being able to take something and make it your own. It's ironic to me that you have attempted to distance yourself from the F&F crowd by way of modification.

Here's another irony I see - one of the major thoughts behind the marketing of this particular brand is that the target audience is jaded and resistive to overt marketing efforts. Is not your own reaction to the marketing of this brand typical?

I'm glad you posted this up, and I'm glad you enjoy your ride. At the end of the day, I think we all selected the car for the same reason: we identified with at on some level.

... I am working a mod to make the xB quieter on the inside....

What is it - is it one of these?
http://www.quietcoat.com/?google2
http://www.dynamat.com/products_automotive_introduction.html

I've been following this thread with some amusement, 'cause it never seems to matter what other folks think of the vehicles I drive; if it's a practical vehicle, reasonably priced, and one that I can enjoy, I'll buy it. The xB fits that the best of any car I've ever owned....

BUT, I was wondering if I swapped Toyota and Scion badges between my '06 xB and my '05 Camry SE, what would happen?

Scion is the "hip" brand, so when I drove the "Scion Camry SE", would I become a young hip kewl d00d?

And Toyouta is the "old" brand, so when I drove the "Toyota xB", would I become an old crotchety out-of-it fuddy-duddY??


Hmmmmm . . . maybe I don't have far to go for the second option (and no, I'm not going to rebadge anything; that would be st00pid).

I used RAAMMat and ensulite based on this study:
http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/
This site was presented in a thread on scionlife. There are several threads out there that have comments on sound deadener (I used search). Most posts are dealing with it in the "booming" stereo area to keep panels from vibrating. I have the stock radio (with XM) and just want a quieter ride. I took db readings before and I still have to remove the stock carpet and padding and install RAAMMat / 3/8" jute padding (more durable I believe than the foam)/and new thicker carpet, and then I will see how the db readings change. With it on the doors/floor in hatch area (even under rear seat) and the back hatch, I do not hear the exhaust any more, just the engine noise. The doors sound different (more solid) for sure. If you are interested in more information, you can PM me. This Box can be a quiet ride I believe, and I hope only gain about 100 pounds. And I can make up that gain in weight with a light weight pulley.

...There is a trend toward "generic" in the US. We have the generic US smile. Perfect teeth. Abnormally white ( for most skin types anyway ) and symetrical, etc. We have the generic trophy wife. Tall leggy blonde with size 32 minus AA bra size. ...Buying a Scion is like taking the step that the man that marries a little sawed off short girl with curves, intstead of the wife all his co-workers expected he was equipped to go after and get takes.

If I were a betting man, I would lay it on the line that you were a "sawed off short woman with curves."

Not that there is anything wrong with that. My wife's got curves, and sure ain't 6'. :)

The Scion is "different"... ...the thing HAS no front end.

You have obviously not taken a ride in a VW bus lately... :)

Ok, this thread is officially STUPID! :loser:

NEW TOPIC: Long live "little sawed-off short women with curves" !!! :bow:

They rock!! :love:

Hear! Hear! :D

...There is a trend toward "generic" in the US. We have the generic US smile. Perfect teeth. Abnormally white ( for most skin types anyway ) and symetrical, etc. We have the generic trophy wife. Tall leggy blonde with size 32 minus AA bra size. ...Buying a Scion is like taking the step that the man that marries a little sawed off short girl with curves, intstead of the wife all his co-workers expected he was equipped to go after and get takes.

If I were a betting man, I would lay it on the line that you were a "sawed off short woman with curves."

Not that there is anything wrong with that. My wife's got curves, and sure ain't 6'. :)

Well, I'm short, yes. When he was mad , my brother in law refered to me as "that sawed off little **#$ one time, to my sister." I always thought that was funny.

Not sure I qualify as curvy. And I haven't suprised anybody by getting married to a tall "achiever".

But, as I've said before, I DID suprise folks with the SCION.

Sorry to have risen this thread from the depths, but The poll at the top is interesting to me. I think that this, and the xB itself is a good example of how Something can sell because its as good thing. People put so much value on the marketing...but sometimes things sell or don't sell based on its own value.

They could have named this thing the bB and called it the "bingoBOX", and marketed it towards elderly people who only go out for bingo every other week...and I think it would have sold the same as it has.
If anything, I'm turned off by scion's whole intro marketing thing for the xB. The whole image of the goofy looking spinach-chin goatee guy, who looks like he hasn't had a proper bath in a month, with the five layered shirts, sitting in a coffee shop, sipping a latte with a laptop in front of him- and you see his Xb outside the window (yes, this was the main picture on the scion.com website a couple years ago) made me sick. I was interested in the car after I saw one on the road, not because of the person behind the wheel- or how it might look parked outside a starbucks.

The car sold me on itself. Not the coffee arthouse guy, or the techno underground trance hiphop dirty urban CG under the Ltrain transformer image. People will buy the car despite the marketing.

I'm 48 and bought my bright yellow xB because I like the room in it. I got it when I decided that I would need another car for running around, and I wanted one I could tow with my motorhome. I think toyota did miss the mark the way they marketed this car. I see as many "old" people driving them as I do young people.

My Wife fell in love with the xB and has basically abandoned her Eddie Bauer Expedition for it. The room in the xB is better than the Expedition, and we don't even need to talk about the gas milage.

I am 56, a professional truck driver and I bought it because it is cheep,roomy, good gas mileage, and does the job needed...and really screws the minds of all who know me..
now if I could find an emblem that says "LIL TOASTER"
I would be set..

still looking for "Laker Pipes and Baby Moons on painted steelies"

Hmm. I'm stuck on this one!

I am 45. Just bought a new xB two days ago and love it. We bought it because it is a fun, functional, and very economical vehicle. With gasoline prices projected to reach at least $4.00 per gallon by July 4, we will be much better off having this.

In our car shopping this past weekend, we noticed a fascinating phenomenon in regards to the xB, the pre-owned vehicles are priced higher than the new ones. Now, this may simply be explained by the new vehicle "pure pricing", but I am not certain of that.

We have been impressed by the many rave reviews the xB has received.

Nope its fine the way it is.

When will this thread end??????????????

This thread is just like a car my father-in-law used to have - the only way to get that thing to die was to take it out in the woods and shoot it...

it wouldn't be bad if there was some more pics of the "xB Highlander" editions. But no.. just text.. worthless TEXT.

pics!

http://www.driftanddestroy.com/scionbadge.jpg
I officially order you to stop this thread now!!! Or I'll lock all of you up!!!Unless all scion owners decide to hold a massive boycott and not go to work for a day, and call it a "day without a scion"...in that case, I'll just sit back and pretend that I don't see you post in here for a little while. After all, if you stop driving- you wont buy gas and we'll all lose money. I mean that's what it's all about right? Money? I mean law? order? please...This is america...we don't really care about enforcing law and keeping order, and you dont really care about freedom or what country you live in. it's all about the money.

**edit** This is of course a joke, and no derogatory thing is implied towards any specific group or nationality...except maybe the current US ruling party. **edit**

http://www.driftanddestroy.com/scionbadge.jpg

Badges? We don't need any stinking badges! We're Olde Fartes!

"Age and cunning will always beat youth and inexperience"

When will this thread end??????????????At this point I feel it will go on forever. As Sciond put it "Holy old thread" and Max2K put it "I hate this thread with a violent passion." I still have'nt been able to stop chuckling. :rofl:

At 57, I suppose I'm one of the crossover buyers of an xB. I think the car is an example of a crossover hit, where much of the market comes from unexpected audiences, like a country western song on the top 40.

In truth, part of the reason I bought it is that I often chauffeur my 85 year old father in law around town, and the tall wide doors are a big plus in that regard. One of the reviews I read cited this attribute, and the author joking offered that maybe they should have marketed it as the "Scenility".... which tickled me so much that I had a custom chrome decal done in a hard to read tagger script, put it right below the rear license plate on the silver bodywork... subtle... and maybe closer to the mark than I'd really like to admit...

Besides that, My old premium guzzling turbocharged aftercooled performance Volvo was demanding a lot of expensive shop time, and driving my wife's PT Cruiser never has been my cup of tea. Maybe it's the way the body rolls away, so I can't tell exactly where the edge of the car really is, or the big Goddess sticker she put on the driver's door, or the big blind spots.... but I've never really liked it...

When I brought the xB home, she pronounced it a "dwarf Hummer", and has refused to drive it, at all, which is fine by me. Tomorrow, I'll install the aftermarket exhaust, which means she'll really, really want to keep it that way- revenge for the Goddess sticker... vrooom!

It's a spirited little thing to drive- I find myself driving it a lot faster than I drove the Volvo, even though the Volvo was a much faster car... even though it's sprung like a little lumber truck and the seats are rocklike... and while the kids are lowering theirs, I find myself wondering if I can raise it a little, to be a better fishin' wagon... maybe somebody will market a front lip with better ground clearance so I won't tear it up on rocks... lots of possibilities...

Outfit it like a LX470- softer springs, soft leather seats, better soundproofing, satellite navigation, AWD, call it a Lexus- sure, why not, if it'll sell? It could really be a dwarf Hummer...

As far as front lips, I'd be partial to this one for clearance, etc. -

http://tijil.org/bB_Russia_015.jpg

Sadly, it's shown on a bB is Russia, and I have no idea how to even begin looking for something like that. Looks flexible so as not to be damaged by hardened snow, etc. Sort of a snow squeege. :D

I don't know what the stats say, but it seems to me that Toyota hit the jackpot. A lot of the kids my age think xB's and tC's are cool, as for the xA mostly girls like it because it's cute. It should be a plus that older people like it, it expands the buyers of the car. In my view, everybody likes it.

yea just to go with the original point, a mature one? my dealer will install a sunroof, heated leather seats anything if u put a price behind it. yes maybe everyone has found a nitch in scions great products but i will be driving a scion it has a unique ness to it that goes beyond age. any rebadged xb is just jdm

yeah..

I just bought a screamin hot set of leather seat covers for my box and I got a sunroof too! Next is cruise control!!! Oh jeesh...does that make me an old fart? :rofl:

I love my SKY-ON XBeeee. :bow:

I do understand what you are saying but the XB 100% stock with no modifications should be considered a car for "grown-ups". I havent heard of too many young kids saying that they wanted a car that was economical, got 30+ MPG and looks like a van. It is when the modifications start happening that make the car for a younger generation IMO.

... is when the modifications start happening that make the car for a younger generation IMO.

I think it started a bit before that, when Toyota Corporate went to their ad agency and said "We have this little JDM econobox and we want to compete with the Honda Element. Whip us up an ad campaign to make the teenyboppers want it."

But to play along with your idea, I propose renaming the current Scion colors:

Blue Blood
Pinot Noir
Ivy League Green
Brooks Brothers Black
Gray Flannel
Uptight White


:wink:

lol thats good