Had my 2005 xB in to the dealership (not Scion/Toyota), where I bought it at the end of March, for them to diagnose the lack of A/C in my car.

They said that:
- there were two parts under the dash that need replacement
(A/C Evaporator, Expansion Valve)
- the work entails removing the dash to get to the parts
- the estimated cost for the work is about $1,200 :cry:

QUESTIONS:
- Is this for real?
- Should I take it over to the Scion dealership for a "second opinion"?
- How tough is it to take out the dash and do the work myself?[/list]

- Do I have any recourse against the selling dealership?
ARGH! :flame:

what are these 2 parts they are referring to?

Hang on, and I'll get the sheet from my car and update the original post. :)
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DONE!

hey there is a TSB on this you might be warrantied

whoa,whoa,whoa! The evaporator would only be bad if it had a leak, I could possibly see an expansion valve go bad, but you can usually adjust them. Adjusting them requires gauges being hooked up to the ports under the hood and using a thermometer. Long story short. I think there diagnosis is BS. Liscensed HVAC guy here. Find an honest shop. Just had Toyota evac my system and recharge for the same reason. Just doesnt feel as cold this summer?

1200 dollars?? holy shiot... that alot of money. yea i would take your xb somewhere else for a second opinion if i were u

this (Acura) dealer tech states.. too high!! but.. about right for the dealer.. go private for better deal

Just doesnt feel as cold this summer?

Actually, there has been ZERO cooling with the AC button depressed since I bought the car at the end of March. :x

I am planning on going over the Scion Dealer first thing on Tuesday morning and see what they have to say and can do.

Will report back after that.

I am in the business and I am sorry to say this is not BS (ask any Dodge truck owner) the evap (cooling unit in the dash) can leak and when it does you have to dig it out and replace it. It is a good idea to replace the TX (expansion) valve while you are in there. The system needs to be vaced and refilled and maybe and new filter/dryer as well.

1K+ sounds about right. :cry:

Had my 2005 xB in to the dealership (not Scion/Toyota), where I bought it at the end of March, for them to diagnose the lack of A/C in my car.

They said that:
- there were two parts under the dash that need replacement
(A/C Evaporator, Expansion Valve)
- the work entails removing the dash to get to the parts
- the estimated cost for the work is about $1,200 :cry:

QUESTIONS:
- Is this for real?
- Should I take it over to the Scion dealership for a "second opinion"?
- How tough is it to take out the dash and do the work myself?[/list]

- Do I have any recourse against the selling dealership?
ARGH! :flame:



The expansion valve is located on the evaporator, located in the dash like all evaporators for all car makes.


I would always get a second opinion. An evaporator can get plugged but unlikely (unlessthe system was damaged in an accident), sounds like parts are just being thrown (at your expense) at the car.
Take it to a Toyota/Scion dealer for an accurate diagnosis.

EXACTLY SCORPIUS!

UPDATE: Tuesday - 5/27

Visited Scion Dealer this morning:
1) No joy on a TSB
2) No joy on being in warranty
3) Scheduled diagnostic appointment (~ $165) for this Thursday.

Quite high for a diagnostic. $99 out here in the Bay...Good Luck!

UPDATE: Tuesday - 5/27

Visited Scion Dealer this morning:
1) No joy on a TSB
2) No joy on being in warranty
3) Scheduled diagnostic appointment (~ $165) for this Thursday.
hmm I had mine repaired under TSB for not blowing cold enough and I have an 05

here
http://tijil.org/Scion_TSBs/ac00704r.pdf

Still in limbo land. :roll:

The Used Car Manager is not returning my calls even with my drop-in visits to prompt him.

Now, it's time for a letter to the owner of the dearlership - with a copy to the state Attorney General (for effect).

This is a key mechanical system that should be covered by the 60 day Warranty... or so one would think. :pray:

my 05's ac blew warm last year..I brought it in got they charged us 80 bucks to diagnose.. they gave it a recharge and put some dye in it

had the box running there for a day and 1/2 they used over 1/4 tank of fuel
to look for leaks

to this day there arent any and it blows cold

I keep wondering though..what happened to the refrigerant in the first place???

bought mine in 05(its an 06) took it in that following may (was well into the high 90's) because it was blowing out hotter with the a/c on and the thermostat in the blue, they looked at it, had it 9 hours and called me and said "its fine, nothing wrong" gave it back and its working, I think they forgot to install the a/c fuse when I picked it up on the purchase date

Well, today I came home at lunch time to find a voice message from the General Manager of the Dealership in question, saying that they would like to fix the AC next week. :D

PRAISE GOD! :pray:

Here is the letter I sent - with key names omitted.

Douglas in CT
999 Anystreet Rd., Anytown, CT
Tel: 203-123-4567


Mr. ABC
ABC of Milford
Milford, CT 06460

Subject: Request for Action

June 12, 2008

Sir:
I am writing to you to formally request that ABC of Milford repair, at no cost to me, the Air Conditioning system in the 2005 Toyota Scion xB (VIN ##########) that I purchased from your dealership on Monday, March 31, 2008.

HISTORY
During second week of owning the car, Milford experienced the first hot spell of the season where the temperature rose into the 70’s. It was at that time that I discovered that the Air Conditioning system would only blow hot air when turned on.

I came in the following week on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 and met with the Used Car Manager, Mr. S. We arranged for the Chrysler Service side of your business to investigate the problem along with an exhaust rattle.

The car went into the shop on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 (Invoice 755895). Some work was done to attempt to fix the minor exhaust rattle (the problem remains), but nothing was done for the Air Conditioning system. This was due to the fact that the shop’s Air Conditioning machine was not working. It would be out of service about the next four weeks.

After checking back frequently during this time with Mr. D. (Service Advisor), my car was in the shop again on Friday, May 23, 2008 (Invoice #####). I was informed at the end of the day that, indeed, there was a problem with the Air Conditioning system. Specifically, that the Air Conditioning “Evaporator” and “Expansion Valve” were leaking and that the repair cost would be approximately $1,200.00.

Upon learning of this problem, I visited Mr. S. on the following Monday, May 26, 2008. At that time I calmly expressed my dismay that not only had your dealership had sold me a vehicle with a major mechanical operating system that was not in proper working condition, but it had not disclosed that fact to me. He informed me that the Air Conditioning system was not considered a “safety item” and was not covered under the conditions of the Warranty. While under the impression that his statement was true, I graciously offered to split the estimated repair cost of $1,200.00 on a 50/50 basis with your company. Mr. S. then said he could not make that decision, and would need to consult with the Service Department to see what he could work out, and then get back to me.

After not hearing back from Mr. S., I called and left voicemail messages for him on Thursday, May 29, 2008 and May 30, 2008. Neither call was returned.

I visited Mr. S. on June 2, 2008, and he explained that he had been too busy with End of Month business. He said that he would now have to wait until Wednesday, June 4, 2008, when Mr. T (Service Manager) returned from vacation.

I did not hear back Mr. S. on that Wednesday, June 4, 2008. So, I left follow up voicemails for him on both Thursday, June5, 2008 and Friday, June 6, 2008. Again, neither of these calls have been returned as of this date, June 11, 2008.

Mr. ABC, you are a professional in the automotive industry and a good businessman. You have a successful automotive business in Milford and are well regarded in the community. It is also known that you are proud to stand behind each vehicle you sell (new or used). I suspect that you would never condone the selling of any vehicle where any major system was defective without disclosing that fact to the buyer, and that you would be willing to correct the defect with timely notification.

Therefore, after being put off and ignored so many times in getting this problem taken care of, I request that you personally step in and resolve the problem to my satisfaction by repairing the defective Air Conditioning system.

I look forward to hearing from you shortly.


Sincerely,



Douglas in CT

good going...nice documentation...
I hope they get you fixedup real soon

good going Douglas

That is a professional complaint letter! Nice job stating facts and not flaming.

Well......
They finally got the car back together having installed a new evaporator and expansion valve, only to find that the compressor was shot.

Now they tell me that there is a Toyota National Back-Order status on this specific compressor, and i will have to wait until they go off Back-Order and become available in order to get one installed. :eyebrow:

Not knowing when it would be installed, I picked up my car today and will have to wait.

Who knows?
I may have working A/C by Christmas at this rate. :flame:

I am not pleased!

I sure hope you didn't pay for those parts and labor Doug. :no: That is for them to eat! :rofl: If you are paying for a compressor, why not take it somewhere else beside a stealer? Have you shopped around for a new compressor? Heck go rebuilt even. Install it yourself then take it somewhere to be evacuated and recharged with R-134.
I could have told you it wasn't the evap. or expansion valve. Thoose hardly ever go bad. I did auto AC for more than 10 years. Whoever did the diagnosis needs to go back to school or move onto another line of work. They wonder why I refuse to take my car to the stealer? HA

Here is a link for a reman compressor $425 with free shipping.
http://discountacparts.com/addtocart~year~2005~make~Scion~model~xB~descript~~part~60-01965.asp

what are these 2 parts they are referring to?The evaporator is the A/C version of the heater core and an expansion valve is the point where freon goes from high pressure to low pressure as it moves thru this valve is where it gets really cold as it starts going thru the evap. The evaporator removes the heat from the cabin air and sends it to the condenser out front. Hope this helps.

whoa,whoa,whoa! The evaporator would only be bad if it had a leak, I could possibly see an expansion valve go bad, but you can usually adjust them. Adjusting them requires gauges being hooked up to the ports under the hood and using a thermometer. Long story short. I think there diagnosis is BS. Liscensed HVAC guy here. Find an honest shop. Just had Toyota evac my system and recharge for the same reason. Just doesnt feel as cold this summer?

the TXV or Thermostatic expansion valve as far as i know can not be adjusted. it should just be replaced if it is bad.

it has the sensing bulb ( charged with co2 or refrigerant) which is mounted on the outlet of the evaporator with permagum (to insulate it from ambient temp) which is attached to the capillary tube (which is filled with refrigerant) that opens a valve to allow more of that refrigerant into the evaporator when the the sensing bulb senses the evaporator outlet gas temperature is too high.

when the evaporator outlet gas temp goes down from the extra refrigerant being introduced to the evaporator inlet, the refrigerant will retract back in the capillary tube and the spring and evaporator inlet pressure will close the valve.

so with that said the are there are no serviceable or adjustable parts on the expansion valve because it is all one enclosed unit. you will have to replace the unit if it is bad.

Thanks for the replies.

The good news is that after my "nice" letter of complaint, the dealership agreed to pay for all parts and labor AND a rental car while the car was being worked on.

I think I am prepared to wait for a NEW compressor and end up with a completely NEW SYSTEM. :D

As long as you are comfortable with that Doug, go for it. Me I'm too impatient. I gotta fix stuff right now.
Are you able to drive the xB while they are waiting on the compressor? I hope so. Take care and good luck Bro! :bow:

Yes, I have been driving the xB since Wednesday.

Oh, how I love that Progress Rear Sway Bar that I installed. :D

Yes, I have been driving the xB since Wednesday.

Oh, how I love that Progress Rear Sway Bar in installed. :DGood deal. :clap:
I knew you would. :relief:

Well, I figured they had had enough time to locate a new compressor. So, I stopped off at the local Scion Dealer to inquire as to cost and availabilty. As of Wednesday, there were 6 in the Central Warehouse and 2 in dealerships.
-Good!

Immediately, I drove over the the non-scion dealership to inquire what the status was.
Answer: We have the part. Bring your car in on Tuesday - 9/2.
- Seems they had forgotten about me. :no:
Good thing I stopped in. :clap:

BOTTOM LINE:
I've had the car since March 31st. ... WITHOUT Air Conditioning!
That's FIVE MONTHS! :flame:
Steamed about not having it during this summer.

Well that's great news. Sorry about you not having air all summer tho. You will like it that much more next summer tho. :wink:

Today, I picked up my car from the dealer and drove in Air Conditioned comfort. :D

Today, I picked up my car from the dealer and drove in Air Conditioned comfort. :DExcellent! I should have driven mine today. It's suppossed to rain tomorrow. :nails:

There is 2 reasons a compresor fails, too high of pressure from lack of cooling of the condensor or lack of oil in the freon.

I had a benz with a leaking ac, i think they are famous for inefficient leaking acs. I got a leak seal kit for hoses and metal, then the artic chil 134a recharge kit with leak sealer from advance auto.

I had to top it off a day later as some leaked,but it fixed it. Neat how where the ac water was draining you can see some of the dye in the puddle. That went away the next day.

I topped off my scion with the same stuff and I swear, since installing my strup muffler, it feels cooler. Adding a second fan helps it to stay cool at idle and slow traffic.

Will scion still touch my car if they see my HVAC has been modded with LEDs? My ac started blowing hot air today and I've also noticed some strange PSSSSSS sound when pressing the gas pedal...:S