I called Toyota once again for my little bi-weekly updates from the parts guy...

From what he told me, Toyota was unhappy with the result in performance with the blower. They are spending more R&D time to either tweak the design a little or re-work the setup they chose. They are shooting for a 60-70hp gain, not the rumored 40-45. When they get the car to perform the way they want, with the higher top-end, they will release it.

All I know is that it will be soon. TRD usually doesn't take this long to adust/fix something.

thanks for the update :D

Yeah they better rework the numbers I didn't like the 40-45hp gain for $4500. If im going to pay that i better get at least 80-100 gain.

well 60-70 hp is a good amt for the price...

yes it is. That's base too. With the right supporting mods you should have a 13 sec car no problem.

i cant wait till it's released... i'm on the list at my dealer... MU-HAHAHAHA

If you are getting 60-70hp then I will be on the list to. Don't want a little gain like 40-45......

Yeah man with that kind of gain, you can beat most street machines out there. Just stay away from evo's, sti's, and srt-4's.

well u might be able to kick some srt-4's just not anything awd

well u might be able to kick some srt-4's just not anything awd What kind of racing are we talking?

My 200hp civic would pull on my modded evo 8 on the highway. AWD is good for certain things. Though I'd much rather have awd over the two, it's not always best.

well street or drag. awd puts u fast in a quickness. eh it's still a honduh. and that modded 8 must be smokin crack or sumptin. i guess it all depends on driver , rpm , gearing , when the boost hits all that jazz.

I hear word on the street is there have been some big shake ups at TRD and the TMS line will take over all scion performance

I hear word on the street is there have been some big shake ups at TRD and the TMS line will take over all scion performance


no comment. i have friends who work there.

I called Toyota once again for my little bi-weekly updates from the parts guy...

From what he told me, Toyota was unhappy with the result in performance with the blower. They are spending more R&D time to either tweak the design a little or re-work the setup they chose. They are shooting for a 60-70hp gain, not the rumored 40-45. When they get the car to perform the way they want, with the higher top-end, they will release it.

All I know is that it will be soon. TRD usually doesn't take this long to adust/fix something.


It's not a blower, a blower is a roots type supercharger.

So, is this blower for the XB, B, or TC?

a blower is a supercharger... that includes centrifugals like the Vortech unit that TRD is talking about...

If TRD really wanted to do it right, they'd use a turbo instead... I'm not anti-blower by any means, the Vortech blowers are great pieces... my '94 Camaro ran 9.56 @ 143 with one... but compared to a turbo, well, there just is no comparison... On my car, it was taking 200hp just to turn the blower... a smaller blower like the tC would use certainly wouldn't have this much drag, but if the blown setup actually made 200hp at the flywheel, the engine would be seeing the strain and stresses (and fuel consumption) of producing more like 240-250hp... in other words, if 200hp blown is safe, then 230+ hp turbo'd would be safe as well... or to put it yet another way, you can always make more net power, with the same level of safety, with a turbo...

i'm curious to find out more about the ECU and fuel mods that the TRD kit is/was using... are there any public details on that? those items would be pretty similar for either the turbo or blower approach, so it might be nice if you could buy a few pieces from TRD and then just do the turbo/wastegate/manifold custom... on the other hand, the TRD pricetag would likely exceed what you could get an aftermarket piggyback and injectors for... just some random ideas...

TRD has never released a turbo kit before and probably never will.

a blower is a supercharger... that includes centrifugals like the Vortech unit that TRD is talking about...

If TRD really wanted to do it right, they'd use a turbo instead... I'm not anti-blower by any means, the Vortech blowers are great pieces... my '94 Camaro ran 9.56 @ 143 with one... but compared to a turbo, well, there just is no comparison... On my car, it was taking 200hp just to turn the blower... a smaller blower like the tC would use certainly wouldn't have this much drag, but if the blown setup actually made 200hp at the flywheel, the engine would be seeing the strain and stresses (and fuel consumption) of producing more like 240-250hp... in other words, if 200hp blown is safe, then 230+ hp turbo'd would be safe as well... or to put it yet another way, you can always make more net power, with the same level of safety, with a turbo...

i'm curious to find out more about the ECU and fuel mods that the TRD kit is/was using... are there any public details on that? those items would be pretty similar for either the turbo or blower approach, so it might be nice if you could buy a few pieces from TRD and then just do the turbo/wastegate/manifold custom... on the other hand, the TRD pricetag would likely exceed what you could get an aftermarket piggyback and injectors for... just some random ideas...

Turbo setups are both more costly and less reliable. With a turbocharger, there oil coolant lines, a new exhaust manifold, and almost always an intercooler. Superchargers are more reliable, less costly, and simpler to maintain - at the expense fo efficiency. Thats a tradeoff I'd be glad to take.

To whoever said we'll be able to race SRT-4's.....maybe...If we had the supercharger + mods and if they were stock....maybe... SRT-4's are built for boost from the factory and have an insane top end. They were built for speed - the tC wasn't. Just take comfort in the fact that their interior is ____ty

no comment. i have friends who work there.

If you have no comment, then don't freaking post anything.

Turbo setups are both more costly and less reliable. With a turbocharger, there oil coolant lines, a new exhaust manifold, and almost always an intercooler. Superchargers are more reliable, less costly, and simpler to maintain - at the expense fo efficiency. Thats a tradeoff I'd be glad to take.

To whoever said we'll be able to race SRT-4's.....maybe...If we had the supercharger + mods and if they were stock....maybe... SRT-4's are built for boost from the factory and have an insane top end. They were built for speed - the tC wasn't. Just take comfort in the fact that their interior is ____ty

Well, if you need an intercooler or not, is a matter of how much boost you want to put out, and not if it is turbo supercharger setup.
I LOVE turbos, for few years I have been driving SAAB '97 9000 AERO 2.3L (4I) turbo (230HP stock) and you would not believe how many suprised grins I saw on BMW and Mustang owners' faces...
The problem is that turbos are technically more advanced and demanding than superchargers, it is not an easy answer and with setup giving out more than 50HP there is also a matter of engine management. AFAIK one of the best designs is SAAB trionic and I know some Volvo guys that were experimenting with that...
If only TURBO was available on tC.. BTW, doesn't "T" in "Tc" stand for TURBO ? :)))
BTW The 9000 replacement SAAB 95 AERO puts out 250HP from 2.3L (4I) engine and it also is FWD (all SAABs are)

Well, the tC setup isnt too bad for a turbo with it being a 9.6:1 compression. Add a racing Headgasket and you could lower the compression. The SRT4 has an 8.1:1. So yes as you know the SRT4 was built for a turbo, but it wouldnt be too hard to lower the compression of the tC for a Turbo.

Well, if you need an intercooler or not is a matter of how much boost you want to put out, and not if it is turbo supercharger setup.

Actually, turbo setups are more likely to be intercooled because the turbine wheel heats the air going through the compressor side.

Well, the tC setup isnt too bad for a turbo with it being a 9.6:1 compression. Add a racing Headgasket and you could lower the compression. The SRT4 has an 8.1:1. So yes as you know the SRT4 was built for a turbo, but it wouldnt be too hard to lower the compression of the tC for a Turbo.

Compression ratios aren't the only thing to look at. Besides, some people who turbocharge their cars like to retain a somewhat mid-range compression ratio so as to keep power and boost response in lower rpm's.

Aside from the compression ratio, cars built for turbocharging generally have forged pistons and rods, longer piston skirts, stronger ring lands, and favorable rod ratios. I'm not sure on the specifics of our engines, but it's not likely that we have many of those things.

Well, if you need an intercooler or not is a matter of how much boost you want to put out, and not if it is turbo supercharger setup.

Actually, turbo setups are more likely to be intercooled because the turbine wheel heats the air going through the compressor side.


Isn't that a characteristic of any gas to warm up when you compress it?
The more you compress the more heat is generated. You can have a turbo setup with no intercooler if the boost is low...

Turbo setups are both more costly and less reliable. With a turbocharger, there oil coolant lines, a new exhaust manifold, and almost always an intercooler. Superchargers are more reliable, less costly, and simpler to maintain - at the expense fo efficiency. Thats a tradeoff I'd be glad to take.

sorry chief... a turbo is 10x more reliable than a blower... no internal gearbox to go bad, no strains on the crankshaft, no belts to break, etc...

ever seen a semi on the highway? you know, those big trucks that whistle when they go up hills? guess what, they ALL run turbos... and there isn't a vehicle on the road that does more annual mileage... diesel's are literally running at 30psi of boost for HOURS a day, every day... 500,000 miles in a year is not uncommon... turbos very rarely fail... i'd bet nobody on earth has ever put 500,000 miles in a year on a centrifugal blower...

as far as an intercooler goes, as the others stated, if you aren't running an intercooler on a boosted car you're missing the boat, regardless of how you get your boost... interesting story: back when my '94 Z28 was stock, i had a buddy with a vortech supercharged (non-intercooled) '94 Z28 also... if we'd just go out and race he'd (obviously) kick my ___ all over the place... however, if we would cruise around all night first and heat soak the crap out of his blower, the race would be doorhandle-to-doorhandle... after a while of driving, the blower is hot as hell, basically as hot as the engine... the air going through it is getting heated up regardless of whether you are building boost or not (trust me, i've datalogged this many times with my standalone, i'm not just guessing here)... with no intercooler to cool the air back down, you're pretty much just wasting your time...

that's why, when i built up my car, i added a custom intercooler to the vortech blower to keep the car's performance consistant... at a measly 15psi, the air temp coming out of my blower is 275 deg F... and that's just on a quick dyno pull... when the setup really gets heat soaked it's over 300... however, the actual air temps going into the motor have never gone above 170 deg F thanks to the intercooler... funny though, on my turbo car, even running 2 times the boost (28psi), i only see intake air temps of 110 deg F... apparently, my turbo doesn't know that it's inferior to a blower!!

A turbo is as cheap/reliable as its maker.

Having a debate about which is more/less reliable/costly is useless.

However, since Toyota is willing to keep the warranty for dealer installed superchargers, it seems pretty obvious that it will be pretty reliable. It is definitely the route to go for safe boosting. Even 2JZFan here can't deny that.

However, since Toyota is willing to keep the warranty for dealer installed superchargers, it seems pretty obvious that it will be pretty reliable. It is definitely the route to go for safe boosting. Even 2JZFan here can't deny that.

i can deny anything! :D

what i take from the fact that Toyota will offer a supercharger kit is that this constitutes "proof" that the engine internals, tranny, axles, etc. are up to the task of handling extra hp, regardless of how it's supplied... i.e. like most Toyota products, the tC is over-engineered... as i mentioned before, you can get more hp to the wheels, for the same engine stress-level, with a turbo vs. a blower... and the turbo has been proven to be long term reliable in many more OEM car and truck applications... (the closest thing besides this TRD blower to an OEM centrifugal blower is a Saleen Mustang)... but the blower isn't bad... back in my camaro days, my screenname used to be "NiceToBeBlown" and for the most part, that's true!

Turbo setups are both more costly and less reliable. With a turbocharger, there oil coolant lines, a new exhaust manifold, and almost always an intercooler. Superchargers are more reliable, less costly, and simpler to maintain - at the expense fo efficiency. Thats a tradeoff I'd be glad to take.

Not always the case.. My last turbo lasted me 125,000 before I sold it. I've seen turbo kits for $1500 for some cars. And not all turbos are both oil and coolant cooled.

BTW, who maintains a turbo or a supercharger? Nobody.

-dp

I called Toyota once again for my little bi-weekly updates from the parts guy...

From what he told me, Toyota was unhappy with the result in performance with the blower. They are spending more R&D time to either tweak the design a little or re-work the setup they chose. They are shooting for a 60-70hp gain, not the rumored 40-45. When they get the car to perform the way they want, with the higher top-end, they will release it.

All I know is that it will be soon. TRD usually doesn't take this long to adust/fix something.

TC,
I wish you were right but realistically 60-70HP gain consitutes almost 40% improvement over naturally aspirated engine and that's an AWFULL lot both in terms of efficiency as well as ADDITIONAL strain on the powertrain, suspension, cooling abd even brakes etc. As you know, Toyota is under a guarantee contract with every owner so they try not to jeopardize durability and defectiveness of any of vehicle's systems...

All these seem very unlikely to me. I for one, would not drive this vehicle before upgrading brakes around the car. From 160 to 220HP, we are talking a BIG BIG difference. Let's see.

well 60-70 hp is a good amt for the price...


yeah if im gonna pay @ 4g's...i better be getting at least 70 hp out of it.....40hp would be retarted for that price....if it does blow 70 hp i might consider it instead of a turbo.....maybe

sorry chief... a turbo is 10x more reliable than a blower... no internal gearbox to go bad, no strains on the crankshaft, no belts to break, etc...

ever seen a semi on the highway? you know, those big trucks that whistle when they go up hills? guess what, they ALL run turbos... and there isn't a vehicle on the road that does more annual mileage... diesel's are literally running at 30psi of boost for HOURS a day, every day... 500,000 miles in a year is not uncommon... turbos very rarely fail... i'd bet nobody on earth has ever put 500,000 miles in a year on a centrifugal blower...

really, well then maybe i was the 1 millionth person chosen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.....this is what happens when diesel turbos fail....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/hondata7700/oil2.jpg

Haha I remember when that diesals turbo went to hell and all that oil owned your Si..ouch man

When they say their shooting for 60-70 hp gain is that at the crank or wheels? how much toque?

I'm just posting so I can watch this thread. ;)

Since Toyota has agreed to install the SC without voiding the warranty and will also cover the SC itself w/ a warranty, it would make sense for them to run a relatively low amount of boost in the dealer-installed setup, I think a 40-50 HP boost sounds likely. From a marketing standpoint, Toyota only needs to match the RSX Type-S' HP @ 210 so a 50 HP gain would accomplish that (surpass it even if you consider the the 22 ft/lbs or torque the tC has over the Acura).

I don't have extensive knowledge of superchargers but I can only assume it would be easy to adjust the amount of boost from the TRD unit on your own, after the dealer-install, to raise the HP gain to the #'s a lot of you are hoping for. Basically, I think Toyota will run a low amount of boost with a wink and a nod so that they can safely warranty the TRD unit. That way, if there is damage to the engine as a result of a boost level higher than the dealer installed setup, Toyota will not be liable.

Maybe some of you with extensive SC knowledge, can let us know how easy it would be to raise the boost level on a unit like TRD's

Since Toyota has agreed to install the SC without voiding the warranty and will also cover the SC itself w/ a warranty, it would make sense for them to run a relatively low amount of boost in the dealer-installed setup, I think a 40-50 HP boost sounds likely. From a marketing standpoint, Toyota only needs to match the RSX Type-S' HP @ 210 so a 50 HP gain would accomplish that (surpass it even if you consider the the 22 ft/lbs or torque the tC has over the Acura).

Excellent point. Toyota will not jeopardize warranty costs for EXISTING owners of the car.

I don't have extensive knowledge of superchargers but I can only assume it would be easy to adjust the amount of boost from the TRD unit on your own, after the dealer-install, to raise the HP gain to the #'s a lot of you are hoping for. Basically, I think Toyota will run a low amount of boost with a wink and a nod so that they can safely warranty the TRD unit. That way, if there is damage to the engine as a result of a boost level higher than the dealer installed setup, Toyota will not be liable.

Maybe some of you with extensive SC knowledge, can let us know how easy it would be to raise the boost level on a unit like TRD's

Nobody seems to know much about TRD's setup but as I suspect it will be a low PSI no-intercoller/wastegate setup?

It would be nice to learn more. On turbo cars you can easily adjust boost by adjusting wastegate (overboost release valve) however one thing is to change the boost level, another is to make it usefull and this is where we venture into the land of engine management... And that's not easy, however for its commercial setup Toyota will factor in such a huge safety margin that makin spec a little more aggresive will not hurt the engine's durability or emissions...

But this is all speculation, We have to see the production unit first.
Anyway I would rather get a less efficient Toyota production unit than one of these advertised on the web amateur setups with no warranties on the setup or the engine as a whole... Remember as long as it is OEM it is sellable....

[quote=2JZfan]

sorry chief... a turbo is 10x more reliable than a blower... no internal gearbox to go bad, no strains on the crankshaft, no belts to break, etc...

ever seen a semi on the highway? you know, those big trucks that whistle when they go up hills? guess what, they ALL run turbos... and there isn't a vehicle on the road that does more annual mileage... diesel's are literally running at 30psi of boost for HOURS a day, every day... 500,000 miles in a year is not uncommon... turbos very rarely fail... i'd bet nobody on earth has ever put 500,000 miles in a year on a centrifugal blower...

No too mention most of the aircrafts in the air: either turbo propeller or turbo jet setup... The whole turbo technology came from aircrafts, courtesy of a little Swedish airplane maker.... Who knows which one? (they make airplanes until now)

Two pages of info. Click on the more info link at the bottom of the first page for pics and more details!

http://www.trdsparks.com/displayparts.php?Mdl_dtl=447&Part_cat=3&parts_id=634


Ken
www.trdsparks.com

Since Toyota has agreed to install the SC without voiding the warranty and will also cover the SC itself w/ a warranty, it would make sense for them to run a relatively low amount of boost in the dealer-installed setup, I think a 40-50 HP boost sounds likely. From a marketing standpoint, Toyota only needs to match the RSX Type-S' HP @ 210 so a 50 HP gain would accomplish that (surpass it even if you consider the the 22 ft/lbs or torque the tC has over the Acura).

Excellent point. Toyota will not jeopardize warranty costs for EXISTING owners of the car.

I don't have extensive knowledge of superchargers but I can only assume it would be easy to adjust the amount of boost from the TRD unit on your own, after the dealer-install, to raise the HP gain to the #'s a lot of you are hoping for. Basically, I think Toyota will run a low amount of boost with a wink and a nod so that they can safely warranty the TRD unit. That way, if there is damage to the engine as a result of a boost level higher than the dealer installed setup, Toyota will not be liable.

Maybe some of you with extensive SC knowledge, can let us know how easy it would be to raise the boost level on a unit like TRD's

Nobody seems to know much about TRD's setup but as I suspect it will be a low PSI no-intercoller/wastegate setup?

It would be nice to learns more. On turbo cars you can easily adjust boost by adjusting wastegate (overboost release valve) however one thing is to change the boost level, another is to make it usefull and this is where we venture into the land of engine management... And that's not easy. Abviously for a commercial setup Toyota will factor is such a huge safety margins that chaniging it guite a bit will not make much differecne or adversely affect the engine performance, durability or emissions...

But this is all speculation, I want to see the production unit first.
Anyway I would rather get a less efficient Toyota prodcution unit that one of these advertised on the web amateur setups with no warranties on the setup or the engine as a whole... Remember as long as it is OEM it is sellable....

Maybe some of you with extensive SC knowledge, can let us know how easy it would be to raise the boost level on a unit like TRD's
It is as simple as changing the pulley to up the boost and then adding fuel via proper engine management to account for the extra air coming in. Jay S.

When they say their shooting for 60-70 hp gain is that at the crank or wheels? how much toque?


You got the drop-in K&N filter right? Do you have the K&N part number for it?
Also, did you remove the charcoal filter? Any improvement?

Thanks,

Stefan

Two pages of info. Click on the more info link at the bottom of the first page for pics and more details!

http://www.trdsparks.com/displayparts.php?Mdl_dtl=447&Part_cat=3&parts_id=634


Ken
www.trdsparks.com


Thanks so much for the info. I bet you guys are as eager to make an extra buck on sales and installs as we are to get these few extrra ponies under the hood.

Unfortunately there is no much info available other than the general setup. No dyno graphs nor any data on target boost etc. etc.
Well. Hopefully you will let us know as soon as you start taking orders for it :) BTW. April 1st is not a good date for a planned release of ANYTHING.

Thanks again,

Stefan

PS. Since we have you here, a very specific question with regards to tC oil filter.
Some of the higher quality oil filters allow only a one diretcional flow (contain a valve) example being K&N oil filter... How about OEM toyota and TRD filters?
Can a directional oil filter be used with tCs powertrain?

I have all along suspecting tC to stand for turbo Coupe....
I wonder who will take upon him self to design and make
turboCoupe badge that would stylistically fit to tC once the TRD blower is released to the public????
Or is a new badge part of TRD Kit? (it should be!!!)

Maybe some of you with extensive SC knowledge, can let us know how easy it would be to raise the boost level on a unit like TRD's
It is as simple as changing the pulley to up the boost and then adding fuel via proper engine management to account for the extra air coming in. Jay S.

Well, you also have a wastegate that controls the boost, so you have to adjust that.
Most imprtantly the engine management algorithms/hardware (fuel delivery) may have to be redesign to if the change is going to be siginificant:

In turbo/supercharges setup engine controller controls the engine output in several ways:
-fuel delivery (injection)
-air delivery (traditional and wastegate)
-ignition (DI control)
-vvt-i (valve control)

All of these have to work together to achieve the required result...
There is a lot of electronics in todays cars and a lot that can go wrong if you are not careful...

TRD was so supercharger heavy in their thinking. Many of the new younger school around their shop like turbos ala the wrx

[quote=Or is a new badge part of TRD Kit? (it should be!!!)[/quote]

I think it comes w/ a sticker that reads "Supercharged"

holy crap, this topic is like 10 months old

and the TRD S/C isn't out still! lol

^^^ LOL

Turbo setups are both more costly and less reliable. With a turbocharger, there oil coolant lines, a new exhaust manifold, and almost always an intercooler. Superchargers are more reliable, less costly, and simpler to maintain - at the expense fo efficiency. Thats a tradeoff I'd be glad to take.

sorry chief... a turbo is 10x more reliable than a blower... no internal gearbox to go bad, no strains on the crankshaft, no belts to break, etc...

ever seen a semi on the highway? you know, those big trucks that whistle when they go up hills? guess what, they ALL run turbos... and there isn't a vehicle on the road that does more annual mileage... diesel's are literally running at 30psi of boost for HOURS a day, every day... 500,000 miles in a year is not uncommon... turbos very rarely fail... i'd bet nobody on earth has ever put 500,000 miles in a year on a centrifugal blower...

as far as an intercooler goes, as the others stated, if you aren't running an intercooler on a boosted car you're missing the boat, regardless of how you get your boost... interesting story: back when my '94 Z28 was stock, i had a buddy with a vortech supercharged (non-intercooled) '94 Z28 also... if we'd just go out and race he'd (obviously) kick my butt all over the place... however, if we would cruise around all night first and heat soak the crap out of his blower, the race would be doorhandle-to-doorhandle... after a while of driving, the blower is hot as hell, basically as hot as the engine... the air going through it is getting heated up regardless of whether you are building boost or not (trust me, i've datalogged this many times with my standalone, i'm not just guessing here)... with no intercooler to cool the air back down, you're pretty much just wasting your time...

that's why, when i built up my car, i added a custom intercooler to the vortech blower to keep the car's performance consistant... at a measly 15psi, the air temp coming out of my blower is 275 deg F... and that's just on a quick dyno pull... when the setup really gets heat soaked it's over 300... however, the actual air temps going into the motor have never gone above 170 deg F thanks to the intercooler... funny though, on my turbo car, even running 2 times the boost (28psi), i only see intake air temps of 110 deg F... apparently, my turbo doesn't know that it's inferior to a blower!!

I like turbos as well but look bearingsseals go all the time and those rigs re-build turbos like we change oil (cost of the design). Also a stage one ZPI turbo is going to produce just as much hot air as intake charge. So out of what you said......................yeah an intercooler on either helps much.

seals go cuz oil dumps in but doesnt get out....

Holy crap batman! My old SN here was tCguy! I made this post last year... Who'd have thought it'd still be around lol... I definately haven't been following up on the blower stuff... But FI is fun no matter what :)

[quote="400amonth")

I like turbos as well but look bearingsseals go all the time and those rigs re-build turbos like we change oil (cost of the design). Also a stage one ZPI turbo is going to produce just as much hot air as intake charge. So out of what you said......................yeah an intercooler on either helps much.[/quote]


Every aircraft propeler and jet is turbo charged. Still talking reliability?
The company that introduced turbo to cars, Swedish SAAB, was an aircraft maker and SAAB cars are know for longevity...

Long story short - supercharger: a cheap, afterthought way to add few extra ponnies (percentage wise) to a traditional engine, turbo - and expensive and MOST EFFICIENT way to add significant (how about times 2 3 or 5??) power to an engine that has to be dfrom the very beginning to handle that extra pressure not to mention extremely complicated engine management... I would never buy an aftermarket turbo kit unless it was for a "project car" and not a daily driver...

On another topic is $3000 a lot for 40HP gain? Maybe, just remember that a lots of poeple are spending hundreds on body kits and bolt-ons with suspicious 5-10 HP gains... I will buy the blower as soon as it is out...