Long-winded:

In my sig line, you can see the 'mods' on my *manual* xB. I bought each of these after very careful consideration, i.e. researching the parts, reading reviews and most importantly, the dyno results from the manufacturers and vendors.

According to these manufacturers, I should be receiving the following-

K&N CAI: *8.2 HP- *your results may vary. Besides, the car we dyno'd was special.
DC Sports Headers: *10-12 HP- *only on the xB convertible.
MagnaFlow Cat-Back: *5 HP- *only because Jesus likes us and God hates you!

for a total of 23-25 HP. Add that to the stock 108 and I 'should' be at 131-133 HP. Yes, I know that that would not necessarily translate to the wheels, but certainly more than the 6 HP total that I'm experiencing in actuality; according to you guys.

So let me get this straight, I spent approximately $800.00 for 6 freakin' horses?!?

I know, I know. If I'd wanted to go fast, I should have bought something else. Not the point here guys. My goal has been and remains to be 140-150 HP. I think that would make the xB perfect; even cooler than I presume it to be already. I figured I'd take the route above with my mods to start and then perhaps move to forced induction in a couple of years, when it was more widespread and more reliable.

So, in my blissfully ignorant state, I could sooo totally feel the extra 23-25 horses.

Naive? Yes.

Psychosomatic? Obviously.

So what is my point?

Vendors, Manufacturers: I realize you want to make a profit and I realize that inflating these numbers increases sales, but WTF?!

I don't know. Sorry for the rant guys. I just wanted to get it off my chest.

Thanks for the ear. :wink:

bdatws1

My Goal is 130WHP, without F/I or a swap, I'm thinking its basically going to require some cylinder boring and all new engine parts. I know that CAI and Header to tailpipe exhaust wont make it there.

The whole planning phase is taking 3X as long as I would like, mostly because there are maybe 4 people on this board whom I feel are not talking out thier A$$ when it comes to these things. And I haven't gotten the nerve to bother them for help yet because I'm sure they are sick of ppl asking and not appreciating.

another thing to consider is that not only can you not add one mod to another because there's some overlap in benefit.. but with most, say a header, it'll get you 4hp, the CAI gets you 2 or three or whatever.. seems like when you add it all up you only get what the biggest single gain was. I don't understand it, but it seems like everyones got this same story, after the first intake/exhaust mod getting you close to advertised benifits the next few get squat.

My Goal is 130WHP, without F/I or a swap, I'm thinking its basically going to require some cylinder boring and all new engine parts. I know that CAI and Header to tailpipe exhaust wont make it there.

The whole planning phase is taking 3X as long as I would like, mostly because there are maybe 4 people on this board whom I feel are not talking out thier A$$ when it comes to these things. And I haven't gotten the nerve to bother them for help yet because I'm sure they are sick of ppl asking and not appreciating.

Understood. But is boring your cylinders cost effective? Gains vs. cost? Again, I'm not at all versed on this particular subject.

another thing to consider is that not only can you not add one mod to another because there's some overlap in benefit.. but with most, say a header, it'll get you 4hp, the CAI gets you 2 or three or whatever.. seems like when you add it all up you only get what the biggest single gain was.

Absolutely correct and certainly something that I took into consideration in all of this. And if your 'net gain' is truly the sum of your greatest part, I guess we should all just pick the single mod that produces the most, eh?

Frustrating and addictive all at once.

but, the thing is, that's not how it's supposed to work. They say "if your able to take more in, then free up the out and you'll see even more gain" but maybe that's on;y engines with real displacement? ;-)

Understood. But is boring your cylinders cost effective? Gains vs. cost? Again, I'm not at all versed on this particular subject.

I've gotten a quote for about $150 to bore them out 0.020 over, but It will still need custom pistons and ect.

I'm not 100% sure the best way to go about it...

I think you should now dyno your car after adding all of those mods on. :D Thats one of the reasons that I tell the truth about my systems. And why we are the only systems that produce a manual and auto tranny exhaust system.

yep 800 for 6 ponies. thats why i went with cheaper but almost exactly the same stuff on my box. aem short ram , megan racing headers , and custom cat-back that all totalled up to about 457 or so. so not bad huh? and i can just about guarrantee u that our cars have the same hp gain.

My Goal is 130WHP, without F/I or a swap, I'm thinking its basically going to require some cylinder boring and all new engine parts. I know that CAI and Header to tailpipe exhaust wont make it there.

The whole planning phase is taking 3X as long as I would like, mostly because there are maybe 4 people on this board whom I feel are not talking out thier A$$ when it comes to these things. And I haven't gotten the nerve to bother them for help yet because I'm sure they are sick of ppl asking and not appreciating.

Understood. But is boring your cylinders cost effective? Gains vs. cost? Again, I'm not at all versed on this particular subject.

The hot rodder's maxim is "There is no substitute for cubic inches", and increasing displacment is one sure way to increased power. The cost effectiveness of this is dependent upon the ultimate use of the vehicle. If you want to use the poer repeatedly boring is very effective, but if you only want to use it once a month at the dragstrip a NO2 system would be much cheaper.

The stock intake and exhaust is already rather well refined by the manufacturer, so expecting big improvment from the aftermarket isn't realistic. Back in the days when most manifolds looked like plumbing a well-shaped manifold would add power, but modern factory manifolds are pretty well designed. The only remaining paths to more power is to increase the displacement (bore/stroke), or increase the amount of combustible mixture you put in per stroke (turbo/supercharge or NO2).

Speed costs money, how fast do you want to spend? :)

George

i think you can also add "there no replacement for displacement" as well george.....stroking or boring over an engine is not cheap....my crank for stroker motor is about 1100 just for the crank.....i still need pistons rods etc.....gonna cost like 6k total and ill hit 220 whp hopefully....and the sad part is that 6k is at the bro deal from a lot of companies.....oh well got no gf gotta sped money on something

brent

dude why are you complaining. you have an intake, header and exhaust. with the small size of the motor on an xB im not suprised at a 6 hp gain.

I think he's upset because he spent $800 for 6hp. Think about it this way: you could spend about $200 for an intake and net relatively similar gains. If you allow for a variance of a few hp (which is pretty standard, even on stock cars), it's probably pretty obvious that the result did not justify the means.

Not that I'm dissing any basic bolt-on mods... if you're planning to go all the way, then you might as well buy an intake and exhaust, but if you're only planning to get an exhaust, headers, and intake, you shouldn't expect too much more than a lot of noise. The right choice in wheel and suspension setup will take you a lot farther than the minimal gains from an exhaust system. I don't want to make bold statements, but I'm pretty sure that a stock xB with Volk TE37 forged mags will outrun a similar xB with intake, exhaust, and headers and stock steel wheels. It might not be that noticeable at a street light, but on the track, that difference could end up being 2 seconds.

If I were to spend $800 on any psychosomatic modification, it would involve playing Crystal Method's "Busy Child" and taking some LSD before getting behind the wheel...

"I know, I know. If I'd wanted to go fast, I should have bought something else. Not the point here guys."

I was upset with myself for being naive enough to believe the hype, so to speak. To believe that I would actually receive the advertised gains. I know making power is expensive and that half of my setup will be entirely irrelavent by going FI. Just a rant, however, I thought it would stimulate conversation and become a source of the truth...

Like making a sticky:

If you install this and this and this, you are going to gain this or this and this will negate that. Just a little help for those contemplating these mods without money to burn. All in all, I thoroghly enjoyed installing the mods, if nothing else. It's the 1st time I'd ever done such a thing...

should have bought a precisionmuffler.com axle back. We got the truth and we help out everyone that we can. Sorry to hear that you were naive, but don't beat yourself up for it. Thats how the aftermarket parts game is played and how some people get rich.

Or you could toss in some irridium plugs and get all that cheap HP! :roll: :roll: :roll:

I feel for you. If I had the money, I would have probably done similar mods. It is a shame that manuf. can play the numbers game the way they do. I remember reading something a while back that indicated dyno conditions are easily altered to increase hp numbers. You know, cool the intake air a little, and voila=3 extra hp. I'm sure the numbers may be possible under some conditions, just doubt that many manuf. use real-world or consistent conditions.

But hey, at least it was a learning experience and you had fun doing it.

My Goal is 130WHP, without F/I or a swap, I'm thinking its basically going to require some cylinder boring and all new engine parts. I know that CAI and Header to tailpipe exhaust wont make it there.

The whole planning phase is taking 3X as long as I would like, mostly because there are maybe 4 people on this board whom I feel are not talking out thier A$$ when it comes to these things. And I haven't gotten the nerve to bother them for help yet because I'm sure they are sick of ppl asking and not appreciating.

from what i remember, our 1.5l motor is the 1.3l motor bored out, so it might not be able to punch it out too much more....

Or you could toss in some irridium plugs and get all that cheap HP! :roll: :roll: :roll:
better burning of the fuel is the best desciption of the irriduim plugs, but thats ok you will get it right next time Scott17 :lol:

Well my problem is that you say you made----"very careful consideration, i.e. researching the parts, reading reviews and most importantly, the dyno results from the manufacturers and vendors."

Seriously, it seems like the only research you did was reading magazine adds for stated horsepower gains and dynos were as if you had really researched what some of us have been saying all along (such as I/H/E only give 7whp), then you would not have jumped to the conclusions that they would give you 25hp and you would not be on here ranting for no reason.

Save up $3-4k and you'll hit the 130whp mark with no FI.

"Save up $3-4k and you'll hit the 130whp mark with no FI."

How? And again, sorry for believing part manufacturers and vendors... what a crazy idea.

search and you shall find the answer....

i know your new but read through the power forum and see what pops out at you...

You guys are trying to get 100HP per 1000cc worth of displacement.
Honda did this way back in 1989 with the B16 (1.6liters and 160HP)
I have had a couple of those engines and I can tell you honestly that unless you
bump compression considerable, or increase the bore considerably along with some agressive cams, it is not going to happen with simple bolt ons on the Xb/Xa engine.
I have seen the low cam and high cam lobes on the B16 engine and the difference is tremendous. If your engine does not have a way to switch cam profiles, you are going to end up with a high strung engine that makes good up top power and is a dog at low RPM, plus a crappy lumpy idle.
140 to 150HP on our little 1.5's is not going to happen with bolt ons, never.

It would be nice to see what the 1nz could do with some high-compression piston's though. 12:1 with maybe a 8K redline and other re-enforced internals would be an awsome xB setup.

i know someone who did that.......

i know someone who did that.......

It wouldn't happen to be you would it? If so what kind of numbers does it produce? How does it feel through the powerband? What kind of piston's did you use? And lots of other questions. :)

no, it wasn't me......yet.....