Who's watching it? I'm sitting here wanting to strangle Palin. She is avoiding every question that is asked and she is just trying to shoot down Biden who is kicking back even harder with facts and points which she seems to have miss placed. I just can't see how she thinks she is doing well right now, she keeps saying the same thing over and over. Also, Biden is having a bit of trouble speaking at some points so thats one bad thing for him. I'm split right now on who I want to be in office however I don't really matter being 16. I wanna know what you guys think so this thread is for you guys watching to talk about it.

Also, did anyone hear Palin when she walked out and went up to Biden? Her exact words "Can I call you Joe?" Lol as Biden says good luck...way to go Palin!

-Talk it up

Palin is a damn idiot.

What she lacks in knowledge, she attempts to make up for in "cuteness".

The SNL bits with her are spectacular!!

If it's one thing I've learned... is that most people's opinion on the debate formed far before tonight's events.

No matter what the other said, didn't say, appeared, etc... doesn't matter... you're already know who you're voting for.

If it's one thing I've learned... is that most people's opinion on the debate formed far before tonight's events.

No matter what the other said, didn't say, appeared, etc... doesn't matter... you're already know who you're voting for.
So? While that may be true (especially in this election), would you rather we didn't do any debates at all?

I don't have cable. I'll wait until it's YouTube'd. Nobody spoil it for me.

So? While that may be true (especially in this election), would you rather we didn't do any debates at all?

No, I'm not proposing the opposite... I'm just stating that in today's instant-access-communication, we've had at minimum, 3 months of constant debate ground up, analyzed, politically tainted and "spun" , and regurgitated on 24 hour news networks.

Honestly... didn't everyone here already know exactly where both candidates stood?

Like Labor Unions, the actual function of the debate has fallen into irrelevancy. At this point, we do it out of tradition. Perhaps the ONLY function they still serve, is to get an idea of how the candidate would address the nation as a whole DIRECTLY, rather than a small group at a rally.

Peoples opinions could have changed greatly tonight as I would hope not many people thought Palin did a great job during this debate due to the fact that she never addressed any issues at hand and all she tried to do was be that person that the american people "like" because she's hip and tries to be cool, she is not professional at all and I don't think that is the way to act when you are running for VP of our country.

I agree with what you guys have said. Palin showed herself to not have the facts and she didn't have a plan on anything.

I don't care who she is or what she stands for, she is HOTTTTTTTTTT... :love:

One of the correspondents mentioned she failed to differentiate McCain from Bush which was critical tonight. I only got to see the wrap-up though. :(

Tyler, I can essentially tell you what each network is going to say..

CNN / MSNBC / ABC / CBS and company ---- Biden clearly won, palin was terrible, etc. etc.

FOX --- Palin was awesome, biden was terrible, etc. etc.

Olbermann will go on his usual tirade. Limbaugh will go on his usual tirade. The ladies on the View will make worthless statements about clothing choices and ill-informed comments, etc. etc.

Just more of the same old crap, which of course, means very little right before elections. There's only one "opinion poll" that matters, and that'll happen in a month.... arguably, it only matters in those "states that count."

No, I'm not proposing the opposite... I'm just stating that in today's instant-access-communication, we've had at minimum, 3 months of constant debate ground up, analyzed, politically tainted and "spun" , and regurgitated on 24 hour news networks.

Honestly... didn't everyone here already know exactly where both candidates stood?

Like Labor Unions, the actual function of the debate has fallen into irrelevancy. At this point, we do it out of tradition. Perhaps the ONLY function they still serve, is to get an idea of how the candidate would address the nation as a whole DIRECTLY, rather than a small group at a rally.
When you put it that way, yes, I agree wholeheartedly with you. I like to think that the debates take that three months of constant debate, and fire a concentrated stream of it directly into the candidates' mouths. How they react to the questions we have, per se, and not their stances on issues which we already know.

It just got put on the youtubes, and I just started watching it a minute ago. Fred Thompson is an a'hole. He's pulling the same spin-and-dodge s' that Palin just got grilled for... when talking about Palin. I did like how, when they tried to cut him off the first time, he just went into long exposition. Classy move, Senator.

Well yeah, every news agency is gonna be biased...I'm just waiting like Dogbert for it to make its way to Youtube so I can see more than the last 2 minutes.

I also like to think Katie Couric has sort of... we'll say emboldened interviewers, especially of major networks, to not take softball answers anymore. It's refreshing to see interviewers go "but back to what I was talking about..." and I hope this trend continues so I'm not so cynical about the news media anymore.

EDIT: "well, neither of you really answered that question"... :rofl: :rofl: This is gonna be awesome.

Biden won this. Everyone of the analysis are saying that a Palin did a great job for herself, but did nothing for the Mccain campaign. I felt the same way. That she did better than I thought she would. But exactly what are we comparing it to....her past interviews, which were disheartening and just amazed at how stupid she is.

After only 20 mins into the debate she already dodging questions? Come On, can a VP really be "not sure" on important stuff? Like can we allow that type of person to make decisions where it matters? No one thinks she is capable of being commander and chief, and I for one think the nation would fall apart if she did get put into that position.

When a critical moment arises, we don't have time for Palin to say..."Wait a minute while I look up the answer".

"No one thinks she is capable of being commander and chief"

what do you mean by this???

Palin did far better than expected, as far as her physically being there and asserting herself, even if she didn't answer a single question. So admittedly, she wasn't the trainwreck I was expecting.

However, she dodged all of the issues, and Biden had the facts to not only back up all of his statements but also effectively shut her up.

Again, it wasn't a coup on either side, but Biden clearly had this debate wrapped up.

I loved Olbermann asking the Hawaii governor why Palin dodged all of the questions. She honestly said that was 'an excellent debate strategy'. I'm sorry, but in what debate is deliberately avoiding the questions considered a strategy??

"No one thinks she is capable of being commander and chief"

what do you mean by this???


If the Commander and Chief = President. Should something happen to the President, the VP steps in and becomes President. NO one is confident that she being in that position to potentially assume the rank of President, would be a good thing.

President often referred to as the "Commander and Chief" because he controls the Military.

I, personally, loved when she said she was "talking to the American people, and maybe not answering questions the way Biden or the moderator would like." It's a debate, not a press conference. Why have a moderator when you aren't even going to listen to them? I realize that Ifill had to maintain a level of tactfulness and not appear "biased", but I would have just cut her off and said "actually, you DO have to talk about the topics I say. that's my job."

^ Exactly. Biden also won a lot of points when he became visibly emotional when referencing his wife and children in the (just because I'm a man, it doesn't mean I don't know what it's like to wonder if a child is going to make it)
Meanwhile, Palin was just a caricature of herself. She seemed phony when trying to be folksy and seemingly devoid of human emotion.

And if she said the word "Maverick" one more freakin time....I could have jumped through the TV! I think Biden felt my pain on that as at the end he was like...."Let me get on this Maverick you keep talking about". He put it a nice way, but he might as well have said...."Fool, his arse ain't no Maverick", and I would have been perfectly fine with that comeback....LOL (even in it's Ebonics, ghetto fashion I just put it...lol).

Yeah I got tired of the Maverick and about hearing about Alaska and "greed and corruption in Wall Street". Palin made it perfectly clear that she doesn't have nearly the experience to be in her position. She's in her position because she's an attractive female. That's it. The only experience I saw her utilize in the debate was her beauty pageant experience. She had no facts whatsoever. How can u go to a debate and have no facts to support any of your opinions??? I also didn't like how she spoke to the American people. The way I see a Vice Presidential debate is that it's one candidate against the other, not copping a plea to America. She should have been beating Biden with facts if she had any intelligence at all.

So? While that may be true (especially in this election), would you rather we didn't do any debates at all?

No, I'm not proposing the opposite... I'm just stating that in today's instant-access-communication, we've had at minimum, 3 months of constant debate ground up, analyzed, politically tainted and "spun" , and regurgitated on 24 hour news networks.

Honestly... didn't everyone here already know exactly where both candidates stood?

Like Labor Unions, the actual function of the debate has fallen into irrelevancy. At this point, we do it out of tradition. Perhaps the ONLY function they still serve, is to get an idea of how the candidate would address the nation as a whole DIRECTLY, rather than a small group at a rally.

Exactly. Palin decided to wink and yuck her way through it. As good as she is at communicating (opening a channel and getting people to listen) I was surprised at how little she actually said (actual transmission of information).

She may have changed the news-cycle on herself but she didn't do anything to help her ticket.

^^yeah, that's what everyone is saying. She did nothing to sway voters to Mccain.

And her accent, no offense to anyone, but it just makes me think of episodes of South Park. And they make fun of backyard Southern redneck language....hell they should try going really far North...LOL.

^^yeah, that's what everyone is saying. She did nothing to sway voters to Mccain.

And her accent, no offense to anyone, but it just makes me think of episodes of South Park. And they make fun of backyard Southern redneck language....hell they should try going really far North...LOL.

She does seem to exaggerate her accent. There was something on SLATE about her accent but I couldn't get to it here at work.

I don't care who she is or what she stands for, she is HOTTTTTTTTTT... :love:
Hell yeah she is!! All she has to do is keep her mouth shut to not ruin it. ha

As soon as she does open her mouth though, kills the whole thing, and I agree 100% on her saying maverick so many times! I'm glad Biden caught that and threw it back at her like he did. I had alot of ppl come up to me that had watched it and said they were swayed towards Palin after. I just don't understand that!!!

Maverick?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3044/2297214552_8977d6b7eb.jpg

or this one?

http://www.isemanandmaverick.com/ICEMANandMAVERICK.jpg/ICEMANandMAVERICK-full.jpg

I toltally agree with Joe Biden:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpjAs4vtc1w&feature=related

I couln't have said it better myself.

I toltally agree with Joe Biden:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpjAs4vtc1w&feature=related

I couln't have said it better myself.

Let me get this straight. You'd rather have a bumbling idiot with little to no plans on how to make any of his promises happen while in the meantime you'd rather not vote for someone who is clearly far more intelligent and has plans on how to improve our country???

I consider myself a moderate conservative and I'd NEVER vote Republican this year. Why the HELL would you do that to this country? Based on what I've seen of McCain and Palin, I'd say that if John McCain got into office, we'd be wishing we could have Bush back.

It reminds me of the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray format war. Stupid consumers didn't want HD-DVD which was clearly the smarter choice (cheaper movies, FAR cheaper players, same or better visual quality, ability to have both DVD and HD-DVD on one disc) and instead chose Blu-Ray (twice as expensive, movies were more expensive, same or worse visual quality)

I toltally agree with Joe Biden:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpjAs4vtc1w&feature=related

I couln't have said it better myself.

Let me get this straight. You'd rather have a bumbling idiot with little to no plans on how to make any of his promises happen while in the meantime you'd rather not vote for someone who is clearly far more intelligent and has plans on how to improve our country???

I consider myself a moderate conservative and I'd NEVER vote Republican this year. Why the HELL would you do that to this country? Based on what I've seen of McCain and Palin, I'd say that if John McCain got into office, we'd be wishing we could have Bush back.

It reminds me of the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray format war. Stupid consumers didn't want HD-DVD which was clearly the smarter choice (cheaper movies, FAR cheaper players, same or better visual quality, ability to have both DVD and HD-DVD on one disc) and instead chose Blu-Ray (twice as expensive, movies were more expensive, same or worse visual quality)
So let me getthis straight...You'd rather vote for a guy who has NO executive experience AT ALL. None. Zero. And you want to hand him the top job in the country? That's not only stupid, it's scary. Joe Biden himself said that Obama is not ready and he isn't. I do think it shows what kind of person Biden is for agreeing to run with him now and to sit up there and spout off about how great he is now. It's funny how his tune changed when he got put on the ticket.
Look, I vote conservative because of several issues that I feel strongly about. I wouldn't vote Democrat no matter who it was because I simply disagree with the liberal mind-set. But even if I was a Democrat I would have NEVER backed Barack Obama. The guy has too many questionable friends and absolutely no experience that qualifies him to be president. The Dems in this country fell for a popularity contest.

So let me getthis straight...You'd rather vote for a guy who has NO executive experience AT ALL. None. Zero. And you want to hand him the top job in the country? That's not only stupid, it's scary. Joe Biden himself said that Obama is not ready and he isn't. I do think it shows what kind of person Biden is for agreeing to run with him now and to sit up there and spout off about how great he is now. It's funny how his tune changed when he got put on the ticket.
Look, I vote conservative because of several issues that I feel strongly about. I wouldn't vote Democrat no matter who it was because I simply disagree with the liberal mind-set. But even if I was a Democrat I would have NEVER backed Barack Obama. The guy has too many questionable friends and absolutely no experience that qualifies him to be president. The Dems in this country fell for a popularity contest.

Yes I would rather vote for someone with no executive experience. Why? For one, he has plans to fix the economy and education. I've read Obamas book and I like what he has to say when it comes to his plans on fixing those issues. Cutting taxes on the rich is NOT going to solve our economies problems. You need to cut taxes for the middleclass and increase the taxes for the people making over $250,000 every year. You and I pay more in taxes than Warren Buffet does and he's incredibly wealthy. McCain has no plan. Not only does he not have a plan to fix the economy, but he is going to make it worse. With no timeline to get out of Iraq, we could be there for years to come costing us billions more, if not trillions. McCain has supported sending more jobs overseas and wiretapping, for Christ sakes!

Obama has too many questionable friends? You need to take a look at McCains friends! Look up the Keating 5 and all his lobbyist friends.

Furthermore, imagine that McCain was to die during office. Now our President is Sarah Palin, someone with far LESS experience than Obama in Government and quite honestly, she's pretty ____ing dumb.

This quote I found pretty much says it all.

I’m a little confused. Let me see if I have this straight…

If you grow up in Hawaii, raised by your grandparents, you’re “exotic” and “different”. Grow up in Alaska eating moose burgers; you’re an American story.

If your name is Barack, you’re a radical, unpatriotic Muslim. Name your kids Willow, Trig and Track, and you’re a maverick.

Graduate from Harvard Law School and you are unstable. Attend 5 different small colleges before graduating, then you’re well-grounded.

If you spend 3 years as a community organizer, become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, help register 150,000 new voters, spend 12 years as a Constitional Law professor, 8 years as a State Senator of a district of 750,000 people, chair the state Senate’s Health and Human Services Committee, spend 4 years in the United States Senate representing a state of 13 million people, sponsor 131 bills, and serve on the Foreign Affairs, Environmental and Public Works, and Veteran’s Affairs committees, you don’t have any real leadership experience.

If your resume is: local weather girl, 4 years on the city council and 6 years as a mayor of a town of 7,000 people, 2 years as governor of a state of 650,000 people, you’re qualified to be a heartbeat away form the presidency.

If you have been married to the same woman for 19 years while raising 2 daughters, all within Protestant churches, you’re not a real Christian. If you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, left your ill wife, and married the heiress the next month, you’re a Christian.

If you teach responsible, age-appropriate sex education, including the use of birth control, you erode the fiber of American society. If you staunchly advocate abstinence-only education, while your teen daughter ends up pregnant, you’re responsible.

If your wife is a Harvard graduate lawyer who gave up a position in a prestigious law firm to work for the betterment of her inner city community, then gave that up to raise a family, you don’t represent America’s family values. If your husband is called “first dude”, has a DUI conviction, didn’t register to vote until 25, and was a member of a group that advocated secession of Alaska from the USA, yours is the quintessential American family.

And, finally, if you’re famous for your quick temper, you’re the one to have your finger on the red nuclear button.

OK, much clearer now.

I would only vote for palin if she campaigned naked........and I would never vote for that yard gnome mccain

Yes I would rather vote for someone with no executive experience. Why? For one, he has plans to fix the economy and education. I've read Obamas book and I like what he has to say when it comes to his plans on fixing those issues. Cutting taxes on the rich is NOT going to solve our economies problems. You need to cut taxes for the middleclass and increase the taxes for the people making over $250,000 every year. You and I pay more in taxes than Warren Buffet does and he's incredibly wealthy. McCain has no plan. Not only does he not have a plan to fix the economy, but he is going to make it worse. With no timeline to get out of Iraq, we could be there for years to come costing us billions more, if not trillions. McCain has supported sending more jobs overseas and wiretapping, for Christ sakes!

Obama has too many questionable friends? You need to take a look at McCains friends! Look up the Keating 5 and all his lobbyist friends.

Furthermore, imagine that McCain was to die during office. Now our President is Sarah Palin, someone with far LESS experience than Obama in Government and quite honestly, she's pretty flippin' dumb.


Ya know what....I could sit here and argue MANY of the points you just made and easily point out how several of them are just plain wrong. I was just about to do that when it struck me: I'm just another one of the 50 million or so people who are going to vote for McCain. You and I see things differently, and that's OK. That's one of the things that makes America the greatest country on earth. Your arguement isn't with me. It should be with Joe Biden. After all, I haven't said anything that he himself hasn't said. He said "Obama isn't ready to be president". He's right. Biden also said he "would be honored to run with John McCain because the country would be better off". Right again. I agree with those statements. Instead of debating politics with me, I think you need to question the man you are planning to vote for.

I toltally agree with Joe Biden:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpjAs4vtc1w&feature=related

I couln't have said it better myself.

Let me get this straight. You'd rather have a bumbling idiot with little to no plans on how to make any of his promises happen while in the meantime you'd rather not vote for someone who is clearly far more intelligent and has plans on how to improve our country???

I consider myself a moderate conservative and I'd NEVER vote Republican this year. Why the HELL would you do that to this country? Based on what I've seen of McCain and Palin, I'd say that if John McCain got into office, we'd be wishing we could have Bush back.

It reminds me of the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray format war. Stupid consumers didn't want HD-DVD which was clearly the smarter choice (cheaper movies, FAR cheaper players, same or better visual quality, ability to have both DVD and HD-DVD on one disc) and instead chose Blu-Ray (twice as expensive, movies were more expensive, same or worse visual quality)
So let me getthis straight...You'd rather vote for a guy who has NO executive experience AT ALL. None. Zero. And you want to hand him the top job in the country? That's not only stupid, it's scary. Joe Biden himself said that Obama is not ready and he isn't. I do think it shows what kind of person Biden is for agreeing to run with him now and to sit up there and spout off about how great he is now. It's funny how his tune changed when he got put on the ticket.
Look, I vote conservative because of several issues that I feel strongly about. I wouldn't vote Democrat no matter who it was because I simply disagree with the liberal mind-set. But even if I was a Democrat I would have NEVER backed Barack Obama. The guy has too many questionable friends and absolutely no experience that qualifies him to be president. The Dems in this country fell for a popularity contest.

Hey Matt (you kool-aid drinker you), the good thing about you is you believe what you believe and haven't let go of your views since the last election. The problem is you're wrong, on the wrong side and thinking the wrong way. But, that's just our difference of opinion and, really, part of what makes America great.

However...

Instead of using snippets of primary campaigns between the Dems, why don't you tell us all how John McCain, the Senator from my state, is going to help our country get out from under the pile of dung the Republicans have buried us in?

Instead of telling everybody (weakly at that) that Obama is not ready to lead when in fact his years-old opinion of what should be done about Iraq is now becoming a reality in the Bush administration, tell us how McCain (picker of Palin and betrayer of his own self-image as a "Maverick") is somebody we can trust not to continue the wholesale screwing of America.

Defend your boy McCain, convince us we're wrong. And do it without the hateful rhetoric and hollow talking points of the Republican Party.

Do it, friendly like, like there's an actually informed Conservative out there, just yearning to teach the rest of us.

Yeah I got tired of the Maverick and about hearing about Alaska and "greed and corruption in Wall Street". Palin made it perfectly clear that she doesn't have nearly the experience to be in her position. She's in her position because she's an attractive female. That's it. The only experience I saw her utilize in the debate was her beauty pageant experience. She had no facts whatsoever. How can u go to a debate and have no facts to support any of your opinions??? I also didn't like how she spoke to the American people. The way I see a Vice Presidential debate is that it's one candidate against the other, not copping a plea to America. She should have been beating Biden with facts if she had any intelligence at all.

^^^ :clap:

And her accent, no offense to anyone, but it just makes me think of episodes of South Park. And they make fun of backyard Southern redneck language....hell they should try going really far North...LOL.

Everytime I hear her talk, all that runs through my mind is "Who's goin' chicken huntin'? We's goin' chicken huntin'!"

I was going to order these bumper stickers made, but with the bailout about to happen, I don't think I can support the economy as much as before. :eyebrow:


http://www.geocities.com/ed209ed/ObamaMcCain.JPG

Hey Matt (you kool-aid drinker you), the good thing about you is you believe what you believe and haven't let go of your views since the last election. The problem is you're wrong, on the wrong side and thinking the wrong way. But, that's just our difference of opinion and, really, part of what makes America great.

However...

Instead of using snippets of primary campaigns between the Dems, why don't you tell us all how John McCain, the Senator from my state, is going to help our country get out from under the pile of dung the Republicans have buried us in?

Instead of telling everybody (weakly at that) that Obama is not ready to lead when in fact his years-old opinion of what should be done about Iraq is now becoming a reality in the Bush administration, tell us how McCain (picker of Palin and betrayer of his own self-image as a "Maverick") is somebody we can trust not to continue the wholesale screwing of America.

Defend your boy McCain, convince us we're wrong. And do it without the hateful rhetoric and hollow talking points of the Republican Party.

Do it, friendly like, like there's an actually informed Conservative out there, just yearning to teach the rest of us.
Oh, so because Biden said that Obama isn't ready (which he isn't) during the Democratic primary, we're all supposed forget about it? Why? Was it a lie? Or has he simply changed his tune now that he gets a chance to be VP? So he's either a lier or an opportunist who cares more about advancing his carrer than about his own personal convictions. Nice guy you're gonna vote for there.

I have no desire to sit here and talk about how great John McCain is or about how he's got a great answer for everything. If you take the time to actually read back through the thread, you will see that I'm not braggeing about McCain. I do think he's a great american patriot, but I don't agree with everything he's ever done. I'm saying that Obama would be a HUGE mistake. A freshman Junior senator with no executive experience at all. Give me a break. That's like promoting the 16 year old kid at the cash register to CEO of McDonnald's Corporation with no stops in between.

^^and if Mccain croaked over and Palin took over, you saying we will be better of.

Oh, so because Biden said that Obama isn't ready (which he isn't) during the Democratic primary, we're all supposed forget about it? Why? Was it a lie? Or has he simply changed his tune now that he gets a chance to be VP? So he's either a lier or an opportunist who cares more about advancing his carrer than about his own personal convictions. Nice guy you're gonna vote for there.

Who cares what Biden said? McCain and Palin would RUIN this country. Don't you understand that? Obama is a hell of a lot more qualified than McCain or Palin to be President of the United States of America. Obama has these things McCain doesn't. They're called "plans". McCain is going to draw out the war costing the United States billions if not trillions of dollars, his health care plan is dumb, he has no plans for fixing education and his plan to fix the economy was proven by the Bush administration to NOT work. McCain has voted FOR sending jobs overseas and was in support of wiretapping.




I'm saying that Obama would be a HUGE mistake. A freshman Junior senator with no executive experience at all. Give me a break. That's like promoting the 16 year old kid at the cash register to CEO of McDonnald's Corporation with no stops in between.

Actually, you pretty much just described Sarah Palin. Barack Obama could be a pornstar with a history of burning bibles and promiscuous sex with chimpanzees and he would still be a far better candidate than McCain. McCain is a MORON. Obama is SMART. McCain does NOT have plans on how to fix the countries problems. Obama DOES have plans to fix the countries problems. Do you want more President Bush? Vote McCain. If you want someone with a clue, vote for Obama. It really is that simple.

"No one thinks she is capable of being commander and chief"

what do you mean by this???


If the Commander and Chief = President. Should something happen to the President, the VP steps in and becomes President. NO one is confident that she being in that position to potentially assume the rank of President, would be a good thing.

President often referred to as the "Commander and Chief" because he controls the Military.

I just wanted to make sure i understood what point you were making so that i wouldn't cause an arguement.

As for knowing who the "Commander and Chief" is. I'm pretty sure i know who is at the top of my chain of command.

Hey Matt (you kool-aid drinker you), the good thing about you is you believe what you believe and haven't let go of your views since the last election. The problem is you're wrong, on the wrong side and thinking the wrong way. But, that's just our difference of opinion and, really, part of what makes America great.

However...

Instead of using snippets of primary campaigns between the Dems, why don't you tell us all how John McCain, the Senator from my state, is going to help our country get out from under the pile of dung the Republicans have buried us in?

Instead of telling everybody (weakly at that) that Obama is not ready to lead when in fact his years-old opinion of what should be done about Iraq is now becoming a reality in the Bush administration, tell us how McCain (picker of Palin and betrayer of his own self-image as a "Maverick") is somebody we can trust not to continue the wholesale screwing of America.

Defend your boy McCain, convince us we're wrong. And do it without the hateful rhetoric and hollow talking points of the Republican Party.

Do it, friendly like, like there's an actually informed Conservative out there, just yearning to teach the rest of us.

Oh, so because Biden said that Obama isn't ready (which he isn't) during the Democratic primary, we're all supposed forget about it? Why? Was it a lie? Or has he simply changed his tune now that he gets a chance to be VP? So he's either a lier or an opportunist who cares more about advancing his carrer than about his own personal convictions. Nice guy you're gonna vote for there.

I have no desire to sit here and talk about how great John McCain is or about how he's got a great answer for everything. If you take the time to actually read back through the thread, you will see that I'm not braggeing about McCain. I do think he's a great american patriot, but I don't agree with everything he's ever done. I'm saying that Obama would be a HUGE mistake. A freshman Junior senator with no executive experience at all. Give me a break. That's like promoting the 16 year old kid at the cash register to CEO of McDonnald's Corporation with no stops in between.

Not what I meant Matt. Sorry to fire it at you that way.

I'm just saying that I'm tired of attack politics. Obama has a plan. McCain is blowing in the wind. Obama's slogan has always been "Change". McCain adopted (stole) it later.

McCain may have been a war hero, but a real patriot sticks to his beliefs no matter what. This John McCain is no longer the same John McCain that was known to be a maverick. He says whatever it takes to live another day.

Then there's torture. He claims to have recited the names of the Green Bay Packers offensive line, when he was beeing tortured in Viet Nam, instead of giving up actual names. So, if anyone knows that torture is unreliable as an interrogation tool, he does. He should have been the anti-torture poster boy and screamed at everyone that the United States of America is ABOVE that crap and needs to stop what Bush is doing.

He took the easy road, not the stand, went along to get along. Now, with the battlefields so dramatically different from past wars, and so many players (terrorists) involved, what do we say to someone that grabs an 18 or 19 year old soldier and starts working him over? What moral ground will we stand on then? That, Matt, is not leadership.

He's old. His time is past. He picked Palin. Sorry dude. Game over.

The Republicans have had control for 10 years, look where they've steered the ship.

Time for a change.