do either of these air filters have any audible improvement over stock? possible slight performance gain?

no the only good part is that they can be cleaned

I think they usually claim 5hp or so, but the real improvement is on the wallet. I have a k+n in my truck and it has paid for itself because it is reusable. Especially wise if you drive in dusty areas.

I think they usually claim 5hp or so, but the real improvement is on the wallet. I have a k+n in my truck and it has paid for itself because it is reusable. Especially wise if you drive in dusty areas.

He ain't kidding...

K&N filters are a religious issue and the subject of endless debate.

I used them when I was racing motorcycles off-road and they were the best for that application. The reason is that they would never clog up and cause a DNF. The down side of this is that K&Ns would pass a lot of fine particulate, but since I rebuilt my engines frequently I didn't care. DNFs don't pay purses, so the emphasis was on finishing the race. The fact that K&N paid contengency money was also a factor.

For a street driven car I wouldn't run a gauze filter. You can buy a heck of a lot of stock paper filters for the cost of a rebuild. Paper filters provide a physical barrier to all particles above a certain size, which is what is needed for long engine life. They aren't "kewl", but they are the best for the job.

George

a drop-in filter, and removing the secondary charcoal filter, will give the intake a bit of growl, but expect negligible hp loss/gain.

so, yes and no.

removing the secondary charcoal filte

never heard of the charcoal filter where is that located at???

open your airbox and look up :P

K&N filters are a religious issue and the subject of endless debate.

I used them when I was racing motorcycles off-road and they were the best for that application. The reason is that they would never clog up and cause a DNF. The down side of this is that K&Ns would pass a lot of fine particulate, but since I rebuilt my engines frequently I didn't care. DNFs don't pay purses, so the emphasis was on finishing the race. The fact that K&N paid contengency money was also a factor.

For a street driven car I wouldn't run a gauze filter. You can buy a heck of a lot of stock paper filters for the cost of a rebuild. Paper filters provide a physical barrier to all particles above a certain size, which is what is needed for long engine life. They aren't "kewl", but they are the best for the job.

George

so basically the K&N and TRD air filters are pointless unless you want a little growl? i was about to get one. but its better to stick with the stock air filter?

stock paper air filters will always be the safest form of intake filtering.

so basically the K&N and TRD air filters are pointless unless you want a little growl? i was about to get one. but its better to stick with the stock air filter?

IMO, the stock setup is best for an engine in normal street use.

so basically the K&N and TRD air filters are pointless unless you want a little growl? i was about to get one. but its better to stick with the stock air filter?

IMO, the stock setup is best for an engine in normal street use.

I know this is kind of off topic but what about the TRD oil filters. Does the same go with that? Is it better to stick with the stock oil filters also? Or is it worth to pay a couple bucks more for a perforance TRD oil filter?

I have used the K7N drop ins and the full kit (Sonoma 4.3L). The full kit with low drag toobs give you a good sound and I almost unnoticeable low torque increase. Yes the are reusable BUT they do not filter out the air pollutants nearly as well as a paper filter, this is why it has more air flow. To keep the motor from wearing as fast use the paper filters.

Anyboyd has the K&N drop-in filter part number?

Thanks


PS. I am a big fan of K&N filters. They are great. Not to the point that there is difference on a dyno but definetely you can FEEL the difference. At least this was the case in all the cars I've driven so far.

PS. I am a big fan of K&N filters. They are great. Not to the point that there is difference on a dyno but definetely you can FEEL the difference. At least this was the case in all the cars I've driven so far.

If there is no difference on a dyno, then can you elaborate EXACTLY what it is that you feel? I'm thinking of getting one, but I have a suspicion that anything can be felt. I just want it to be re-usable.

Thanks.

PS. I am a big fan of K&N filters. They are great. Not to the point that there is difference on a dyno but definetely you can FEEL the difference. At least this was the case in all the cars I've driven so far.

If there is no difference on a dyno, then can you elaborate what it is that you FEEL? I'm thinking of getting one, but I have a suspicion that anything can be felt. I just want it to be re-usable.

Thanks.

Buzz,

"Feel" meaning responsivenes; you press the pedal to the metal and the torque appears that little split second sooner....
K&Ns hav as many followers as critics. Buy one, they are not that expensive and you will know right away. Just do not put the K+N sticker OUTSIDE the engine bay 'cause that's pure "rice" and you definetely want "race" not "rice" :wink:

K&N part number is 33-2252

http://www.knfilterchargers.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=33-2252

33-2252 Product Specifications
Product Style: Panel Air Filter
Height: 0.938 in (24 mm)
Outside Length: 11.375 in (289 mm)
Outside Width: 5.938 in (151 mm)
Filter Re-Oiling Amount: 0.83 oz (24 ml)
Weight: 0.8 lb (0.4 kg)
Product Box Length: 13.5 in (343 mm)
Product Box Width: 7.75 in (197 mm)
Product Box Height: 1.75 in (44 mm)

so basically the K&N and TRD air filters are pointless unless you want a little growl? i was about to get one. but its better to stick with the stock air filter?

IMO, the stock setup is best for an engine in normal street use.

I know this is kind of off topic but what about the TRD oil filters. Does the same go with that? Is it better to stick with the stock oil filters also? Or is it worth to pay a couple bucks more for a perforance TRD oil filter?

I kind of question what would be different about a "racing" oil filter. Oil pumping losses in an engine are trivial, so a freer-flowing filter would not yield an improvment. It would yield a bit more oil pressure, but since all modern oil systems have an oil pressure control/relief valve that advantage would be lost.

OTOH, if the filter had a finer hole pattern, it would filter slightly better, but the particles filtered would be too small to make much difference.

Now, there are "racing" oil filters (Fram HP-1, for example) that are built to take more internal pressure than stock filters, but a stock Scion doesn't need this capability.

I'd say that if you change oil and filter at the recommended intervals, the standard filter is fine. I don't see any advantage that the TRD part could have over the stock part.

George

OTOH, if the filter had a finer hole pattern, it would filter slightly better, but the particles filtered would be too small to make much difference.

Now, there are "racing" oil filters (Fram HP-1, for example) that are built to take more internal pressure than stock filters, but a stock Scion doesn't need this capability.

I'd say that if you change oil and filter at the recommended intervals, the standard filter is fine. I don't see any advantage that the TRD part could have over the stock part.

George

I was a SAAB fan in my past life and SAAB oil filters are equipped in back flow valve i.e. oil can only flow one way (the correct way). I think K&N oil filters have the same functionality. How about Toyota and TRD filters?