View Full Version : Amping HP without loosing MPG performance!?
skullzrule03 11-24-2008, 08:24 AM So I'm trying to tweak my 2006 xA and I'm getting a bunch of different suggestions. I want to get as many horses out of my engine as possible without loosing too much fuel efficiency. I know what kind of plugs and exhaust I want, but what about everything else?? Hoses, wiring, cooling... all that stuff. Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated!
P.S. I'm a little new to the custom scene, so go easy on me.
Is it stick or automatic? Mines was a stick and shifting at 3500rpms gave me the best fuel economy and top consistant fuel economy was 40.x per tank. I drafted a lot which allowed me to exceed the posted limits and get same fuel economy.
I did the snorkle remove, but saw no difference. I did the strup muffler and man, it sounded cool and had more power by seat of the pants from idle to red line and lost 4mpg. Not bad as it has a narrow power band as is, this really opened things up for me.
The second thing I did was a weapon r 4 2 1 header. t made the power available off idle just like it was at 4 grand. I mean it felt like it had a 2 liter engine under the hood. I drove it like I wanted and got 29mpg. I then reverted to shifting at 3500rpms like before as I was short shifting and got it back to 34-36mpg.
Lets face it, its a 1.5l engine and the more fuel that flows through the engine, the more power it makes and mpg goes down. Just think back in the 80s a 1.5l engine was lucky to make 50mp, you got 104.
divisii 11-24-2008, 02:45 PM cold air intake-header-exhaust should free up some flow & noise, & a few mpg. Since you're spending money though, anything you gain would still cost in parts. As the stated, the greatest advice is to watch how you drive- accel slowly, & shift early as long as it's not lugging the motor.
cai on the xA isn't good for fuel economy you want a short ram intake the one that sits right next to the engine and you'll want to lower the car too...
and shifting early is bad for the tranny keep the revs above 2K rpms just to keep the tranny fluid up in around the gears 'n' such...
INFINI 11-26-2008, 10:37 AM cai on the xA isn't good for fuel economy you want a short ram intake the one that sits right next to the engine and you'll want to lower the car too....
x2 on that! I had the Injen CAI and it was great, but conflicted with my header and at times I was running really high RPM's in the highway for too long wasting gas and not really getting more power. So here in my set up, I think I am really set up good now that I tested and got everything in.
Engine:
Injen SR
MMW Racing Header
Tanabe Hyper Touring Exhaust
Lightweight Pulley
NGK plugs
Grounding kit
Royal Purple Synthetic Oil
Suspension:
Tanabe DF210 (aprox. 2.5" drop after settle)
I can't remember the other thing but so far so good :) I really can honestly say the car has more balls than it EVER did when I drove it from the dealership. It;s not Turbo or anything but I can Navigate traffic pretty well and get really decent MPG. I just wish I had a scangauge so I can test it.
365Motorwerks 11-26-2008, 04:10 PM On a budget..hmm
Start with springs and a sway bar then you can keep the momentum up and have fun on the corners where these little things shine! Add an axle-back and Intake of your pick even though it won't be a big HP jump the sound change along with a sporty ride will make it feel 10X's faster!
And INFINI you know who to talk to when you need a ScanGaugeII just click my signature!
yes scangaugeII is a good gauge(s) to get hands down
INFINI 11-27-2008, 12:10 AM lol def. a mod I will get and from you considering the price :)
As Infini said, have you done any suspension mods? You want the car to feel rock solid at 80mph or more, drop it, add the sways and the urthene bushing upgrade.
I had both the front and rear hostkins sways, eibach prosport springs and a universal set of urthene bushings from autozone and the hardware frm lowes as mentioned on this forum.
I had a scanguage, but sold it. It was neat to see the water temp, load, mpg, but I never got a map reading on mines. I needed some funds earlier this year and sold mines for 100 bucks.
FYI, the blue light on your water temp goes off at 140 degrees and the fan comes on at 205 it runs between 170-190 when driving.
my blue light goes away at 139 degrees
365Motorwerks 11-27-2008, 02:43 PM The Scangauge doesn't read MAP or FPR on our cars.
Btw here is a pic of the bushings on my '04 interesting how bad they look after only 4 years! (scroll to the bottom) http://www.365motorwerks.com/news.aspx
Super-Stormtrooper07 11-27-2008, 06:18 PM if you want to keep costs low, and both things are DIY stuff:
*K&N or TRD drop in air filter
*exhaust
Both should yeild about a 10 hp increase, not break the budget( used parts would be fine, $150-200 for both) , not so sure on affecting mpg... you might drop 2-4 mpg, but like others have said if you were to get a scanguage 2 and monitor your driving, you should be able to keep your average mpg above 35-38 I'd think.
it won't be a 10hp increase more like 5hp or a lil less... do a header and a axle back and remove the snorkle along with the drop in air filter
365Motorwerks 11-27-2008, 08:33 PM Don't put on a wheel larger than a 16" and keep it light.
INFINI 11-27-2008, 08:43 PM Don't put on a wheel larger than a 16" and keep it light.
Yeah I would agree. However a few facts that are also important to know to add to the pot.
1. Most cheap wheels are kind of heavy so light wheels are not a low budget mod. Graham Lights are like $320+ a wheel.
2. I have pretty light 18's and I believe it's like an 8% diff. from 15's. So not a terrible diff. in MPG.
365Motorwerks 11-27-2008, 09:05 PM Correct, but my point on the no bigger than 16" is the rotating mass. Harder to get going and harder to stop with a larger wheel even if it is just as light as a smaller one. I currently have 15" with 50's and over past 17" with 40's the ride is so much nicer and spins up quicker when coming out of corners.
I was doing donuts and drifting one rainy night and broke off my link bolt at the control arm. Even grade 8 bolts will break with enough pressure and stress.
5, 10 hp? I think you guys are on drugs, by the seat of the pants it feels like that, but not really. Like the lighten crank pulley, it revs faster from idle, but no gains in the hp area. Plus the more air that can be moved through the engine, the more fuel goes with it thus lowering your mpg. Sure 40mpg is nice, but so is pulling from idle to redline vs just 3-4300 rpms.
I am not much of a wheel man and went withthe 7 spoke xb wheels. Most websites let you view weights and I would look for the lowest if you want to plus size. Slapping on larger wheels and tires is a great way to lower your fuel economy too.
The Scangauge doesn't read MAP or FPR on our cars.
Btw here is a pic of the bushings on my '04 interesting how bad they look after only 4 years! (scroll to the bottom) http://www.365motorwerks.com/news.aspx
INFINI 11-27-2008, 09:34 PM hmmm I think 10hp is realistic for all I have put in my car. For real. I have a completely diff. driving exp. than when I drove out the lot stock.
My resp. time is better, I DEF. have more HP no doubt in my mind. I still can't bully anyone on the road. But I don't need that anyways.
Super-Stormtrooper07 11-28-2008, 04:34 PM Don't put on a wheel larger than a 16" and keep it light.
Yeah I would agree. However a few facts that are also important to know to add to the pot.
1. Most cheap wheels are kind of heavy so light wheels are not a low budget mod. Graham Lights are like $320+ a wheel.
2. I have pretty light 18's and I believe it's like an 8% diff. from 15's. So not a terrible diff. in MPG.
For the most part I agree.
Even Gram Lights aren't exactly super light. Most, if not all 16" Gram Lights that I checked into weigh 16 lbs. That is the same amount of weight as a Buddy Club P1 SF 16X7 cast wheel :clap: , yet the Buddy Club costs $125-140 per wheel and the Gram Lights are right about $300+ per wheel :rofl:
On our cars, your best sticking with a nice 15" wheel, where for a quality cast wheel will be 13-14lbs per wheel , or if you want to dish out more $$ get a forged wheel at about 8.5-9.5 pounds. Ohhhh forgot, a good way to go for cast is the Enkei RPFI wheel, which is 10lbs @ about $180 per wheel :bow: , made in Japan.
INFINI 11-30-2008, 08:29 AM Hmmmm I guess I did not do enough homework on those wheels. However my point is not really about "Graham Lights" it's about getting a light wheel, and 18's I believe is like an 8% diff. from 15's. VERY little.
Sure stay with 15's - 16's. Whatever you like since at a point it ends up being a style as well. I like the look of 18's but not the ride compared to the 15's.
365Motorwerks 11-30-2008, 04:42 PM Hmmmm I guess I did not do enough homework on those wheels. However my point is not really about "Graham Lights" it's about getting a light wheel, and 18's I believe is like an 8% diff. from 15's. VERY little.
Sure stay with 15's - 16's. Whatever you like since at a point it ends up being a style as well. I like the look of 18's but not the ride compared to the 15's.
I'm very simple and don't like all the math with percentages and such so I'll put this out there like this...
If you have ever seen an ice skater, roller blader or yourself on a spinning the office chair you will notice one thing i (you)f they want to go faster they tuck their arms and legs in making themselfs SMALLER which makes them go faster. The weight is not the main issue it is where it is placed that matters. Unsprung weight that can be removed will allow suspension to function better and a smaller rotating mass will allow an easier transition between acceleration and braking.
Hmmmm I guess I did not do enough homework on those wheels. However my point is not really about "Graham Lights" it's about getting a light wheel, and 18's I believe is like an 8% diff. from 15's. VERY little.
Sure stay with 15's - 16's. Whatever you like since at a point it ends up being a style as well. I like the look of 18's but not the ride compared to the 15's.
I'm very simple and don't like all the math with percentages and such so I'll put this out there like this...
If you have ever seen an ice skater, roller blader or yourself on a spinning the office chair you will notice one thing i (you)f they want to go faster they tuck their arms and legs in making themselfs SMALLER which makes them go faster. The weight is not the main issue it is where it is placed that matters. Unsprung weight that can be removed will allow suspension to function better and a smaller rotating mass will allow an easier transition between acceleration and braking.
very well said :clap:
INFINI 11-30-2008, 10:46 PM I hear you. Good point. Until I get back to 15/16's I don't have enough fresh personal experience to share on the subject since I have been on 18's over a year now. I don't remember picking up speed more or having better MPG on 15's.
Since personal experience and seeing it with my own eyes is more important than any math/ lectures or philosophy on a subject. Might be getting 15/16's in Jan. when in school. so I will comment then.
Super-Stormtrooper07 11-30-2008, 11:04 PM there tends to be more benifits to a smaller wheel, then a larger one.
One size bigger of a wheel= slightly better tracking... thats about it.
Looks are in the eye of the beholder.
The era of the "big wheel" is over , long live the small efficent wheel! :clap:
365Motorwerks 11-30-2008, 11:14 PM The only reason I even mentioned a 16" when I said 15 or 16" was just that, people like the big wheel look and while a 16 is not a large wheel it does fill up the gaps a little better than a 15 without resorting to a drop that affects ride quality that much. For function a larger wheel should only be used if it adds to performance output such as allowing the use of larger tires for added grip or allowing clearance for larger brakes for better stopping..beyond that its all fashion.
INFINI 11-30-2008, 11:26 PM The era of the "big wheel" is over , long live the small efficent wheel! :clap:
Wow I disagree big time. But the price of gas and need for people to have a tighter budget make smaller wheels more attractive. I wish I had a scangauge so I could see it real time what I am losing.
PS: I am sure skullzrule03 the OP got more than he asked for :) skullzrule03 I hope you have a good long stay here on SL. I learned allot from this site. Some helpful some hurtful :) sort of the name of the game when on a forum. Anyways good luck with the modding and MPG :)
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