Seth

Hey all,

Thanks in advance for reading this. I'm losing my mind and would really appreciate some advice. I've put a ton of time and thought into designing a system for my new 08' XB, and honestly, it sounds horrible. I do pro audio recording in a studio, so I'm not exactly new to sound design - yet the results of my XB have been rather embarrassing for me.

I have a Clarion DRZ9255 head unit (audiophile series) run off a McIntosh MCC404 4-channel amp. I wanted to do a simple setup, so I tried running the amp in 3-channel mode to 2 custom kick panel installs (Dynaudio 2-way Esotec Series) and the 3rd and 4th channel bridged to a 10" Dynaudio sub in the rear. The panels were custom built by a great shop in NY.

My initial thought was that this would be a very nice, simple signal chain and would yield good results. I used to drive a van (I'm a paraplegic wheelchair user), and figured the XB would need much less ooopmh because of it's smaller size. The sound in the car now is absolutely horrible guys. It's embarrassing. I won't let anyone listen to it as it is. I tuned it initially myself and then even had a pro-audio shop give it a try and it still sounds extremely flat and empty. The HU is great, the amp is great, but I'm thinking the component speakers are too small and possibly not enough of them? As it is there are no door speakers engaged, just front stereo kicks and a sub.

As for the sound: The treble is great, but there are very weak mids, no sub-mids, and the single 10" dynaudio is not cutting it whatsoever. The stock system sounded better, and frankly, I just should have left it alone. Now that I'm this far into the project, any ideas to easily make this better? Probably ditch the kicks and install new components in the stock speaker positions in the doors? I didn't want to take up much space in the back of the car as I keep a space wheelchair back there.

Also, my radio reception now is totally screwed, which is horrible because I just moved back to San Diego and I love the radio down here. Is there an internal signal amp in the 2nd gen XBs like in the 1st gen? Maybe the dude at the shop didn't connect it to new HU?

Thanks so much for reading this and giving some ideas. It's much appreciated!

Take it easy,
-Seth

1vicissitude

Well I'm now expert and quite frankly looking at the specs of the equipment you purchased I am astonished that you are having little success.

I woould deffinatly keep the kicks in the front as the mcIntosh amp is a perfect match. You said you are only running one channel though to the front kicks right? Those speakers, if they are what i think they are, handle 100watts nominal so I think you are only feeding them 50watts nominal.

I would get a set of components for the rear and mount them in the factory location.just get something that also handles 100 watts nominal but that has a lower frequency response to help fill in the mids. Your components do 55hz-25hz try to find one that is closer to 35hz-25hz. Run the McIntosh as a 4 channel just for the speakers.

Now for the dynaudio sub I do not know what sub you have or how you have installed it, so I cannot give advice on that until I know some things. What type of enclosure, volume, firing direction, and model of sub are going to need to be stated.

Overall I think your problems are all rooted in under powering your components and sub. You have some really realy nice equipment, makes me sad that somehow its all setup wrong. Goodluck Seth, please take some pictures to share with us.

Oh yeah make sure you sound deaden the heck out of the car. IMO it would be a total waste of money to have such a high fidelity system only to hear all the road noise and rattling of the car.

Seth

Hey there, thank you for the reply. To answer some of your questions:

Channel 1 + 2 are going to the front kicks, so that would be 100w per channel on either side. Chanell 3 + 4 are bridged to 400w to the sub, which is a Dynaudio MW 180 10" sub (actually about 9.5" because of the Denmark measurements, I believe?). The sub is an a sealed box, firing toward the back of the car in the rear cargo area.

The front kicks are Dynaudio Esotec 222 series. The tweeters are phenomenal, though the woofers are barely registering mids to mid lows at all. It sounds like there is a high pass filter engaged, though I know there is not. Again, the speakers advertise as 5.75", though they are realistically a bit smaller than this. I kick myself for not trying a 3-way initially instead of the smaller 2-ways.

The acoustics of this particular xB are difficult. I did not mention in the above post, but my xB is a prototype hydraulic conversion from the FMI corporation, outfitted for wheelchair access. The floor was dropped, a hydraulic ramp installed, and hydraulic gull wing door conversion to the rear passenger door (opens like a DeLorean with a remote control, pretty neat to watch). The lowered floor + hydro doors added quite a bit of road noise though, which I attempted to dampen as best I could with a new acoustic lined floor and door insulation. Helped a little, though not enough.

Here's a pic of a similar prototype at the company website: http://www.fminow.com/index.cfm?fuse...Scion_exterior

Anyway, you're probably right about just running the McIntosh to component speakers only. I could put some 6" woofers in the rear doors (though the right side door speaker will be blocked by the retracted wheelchair ramp). With the complexity and custom nature of this car + the road noise, part of me is upset I bothered to remove the factory system in the first place =(

Thanks again for your advice.
-Seth

1vicissitude

Find a 6.5 midwoofer for the rear. Or move the front components to the rear and get a 6.5 set up for the front. no need to go so small when the factory is already 6.5. Also that sub only takes 180 nominal? I understand that this is supposed to be a nice subwoofer but I would ditch it for something with a bit more oomph.

Seth

Sounds good. I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the thoughts! Much appreciated!

buickid

Is the subwoofer in-phase with the other speakers? If not, that would probably kill a lot of mid/low tones.

Seth

Yeah, sub phase should be fine. I've tested it by removing the sub completely, and the low mids are still non-existent. Good idea though, thank you.

buickid

Hmmm. Is there a high-pass filter on the amp, or in the HU options? My Kenwood HU can HPF/LPF the outputs.

Seth

High pass filter should be fine, as the way it's set should be allowing much more mid-range information to pass to the 2-ways. It's possible the 2-way kickpanels' crossovers arent set correctly I suppose. I'll have to dig behind the dash and figure out where the audio shop installed them. Ugh.

rockthebeef

Seth - Welcome back to SD.

Do the front speakers sound kind of hollow and indistinct? Hopefully I'm not stating the obvious, but are the front speakers out of phase from each other? Maybe when you find where the crossovers were installed you can see if one of the speakers' wires happen to be backwards. Do you have any test CDs - perhaps from the studio? There should be a phase check track that can help you audibly tell if the front speakers are wired out of phase. If that's the case then even changing the phase of the subwoofer won't help [that particular problem] much.

400w to a single 10" should sound pretty good. Is the sub broken in yet? I installed a new sub in my box a few weeks ago and it sounded terrible at first. It sounded like somebody was putting their hand on the cone and not letting it move. It was very tight and unmusical. I was almost going to put the old one back in there. After some breaking in it really loosened up and now outperforms my old eD subwoofer.

Slody4Futbol

yeah the mids sound like they're out of phase.. disconnect one side.. and see if the one still hooked up sounds correct

nodsetse

If you're really attempting an audiophile system, I sure wouldn't try to fix the issue you described by adding rear speakers.

A better solution would be to add 6.5" or 8" midbass to the front doors, bandpass filtered between the sub and KP speakers. You could then run the McIntosh in 4ch mode for the front stage, with another amp to power the sub.

Your choice of equipment and using the KP location should result in a VERY good system, so there must be a way to resolve the issue without too much time, effort or cost.

If you need some assistance, feel free to send me a PM, I'm in SD too.

HareBrained

I suggest you check your crossover settings on the amp. There are multiplier switches and as the adjuster is a flat slot, make certain you're adjusting to the proper end. There's also an EQ. Make sure that's off so you know it's not a problem. Input sensitivity of the amp is variable from 0.5V-8V, where the output of the 9255 is 8V (or 4V depending on the configuration) . Set the head to 8V output, and then to 3/4 volume, Now go to the amp and begin turning the sensitivity until things start get too noisy.

Regarding the sub. sealed is the right alignment but how big is the box? If it's under 1cf, you're not giving it enough volume. The amp is capable of driving the 4ohm load bridged, that's not a problem. Check the sensitivity.

What are the meters showing when you're playing?
Is the "bridged" selector set correctly?

One last note: in the manual, the 3-channel mode describes a tweeter/mid/woofer configuration. Not a 2+1 configuration. If you followed the instructions, you're not listening to full range on channel 1. You should have followed the Subwoofer Mode description.

Seth

Thanks for the replies guys. I think I have it figured out. The crossovers on the front Esotec kicks were way off, and the sub level needed to be boosted by about 2x (and yeah it was set fine in "sub mode" on the McIntosh). It seems quite a bit more balanced now, plus some EQ adjustment on the deck helped. We'll see how it goes listening for about a month or so. It's at least better than it was.

There was also a broken positive pin on the back of the sub box, causing intermittent sub signal dropping. That explained a lot too...

Thanks again though, as you've all been a great help!

-Seth

Claydohxb

Thoes are some good quality parts so i know thats not the problem. I went though about 10 systems in my 08 xb so fare, Nothing sounds good the car isnt that acoustic. When I get my sound deadening done i will let you know how it sounds.