does anyone else feel that a 40 horepower gain for 3000 dollars is a little much. i mean you still wont have as many ponies as a rsx-s or a frickin saturn redline, lets just hope that it is more then 40 horses.

...it's all speculation right now, who knows how much hp gain we get, or if the numbers being flung around are at the wheels or the crank, 200 crank is pitiful for the price they are asking, but 200whp would be pretty sweet.

200 whp for a warranty on my supercharger of 5 years sounds good to me!

yeah and the kid next to you in his supercharged saturn ion is gonna be laughing at you after he smokes you

umm... saturn ion redline has 205WHP @5600 and no low end torque, 170@5250 - the SRT4 on the other hand puts out about 225hp at the wheels dyno'd... and 250 torque PEAKS AT 2200 THROUGH 4800RPMS :shock: they pack a severe punch, but you also have to remember that they're priced at MSRP 21k+.... even if the TRD blower costs 3grand that still puts the tC at $18645 - still about 3 grand LESS than either car... and would you really want to drive a neon? or a saturn? over a toyota built blown car?

with an extra $2500 in mods to spend on the tC compared to the competition you could get everything to compliment that charger, pullies, fuel management system, intercooler, header, exhaust, intake and probably all custom made to fit the TRD blower and you'd have no competition till you start getting into the high-end v6's and v8's.... for 21grand.... I'd say you could get about 250whp on stock internals without crossing that line of voiding your warranty if you play your cards right... as they say, as long as your intake doesn't make your wheels fall off you should be good to go.

From what I heard, they had to ratchet down the HP a bit because it was a little too agressive, and that's another reason it's taking such a while - dealing with the fuel system in this engine is a maor problem unless you just scrap it and start from scratch.... this engine wasn't meant for boost and they need to find a way around it... if you paid 6grand for the supercharger that came with all the fixins it wouldn't be much of a problem, but nobody would be willing to pay that unless they want to go all the way. TRD Sparks toyota said they're putting money down it'll be 40WHP for about $2500 installed. and if they DON'T calm it down, it'll be about 60-70WHP for $4000 installed - but there is only going to be ONE KIT.

Oh yeah, and the tC has shorter gearing than almost any car out there, and if you get the shifting down right you could pull anybody off the line with a good setup.... MMMmmmmm 250whp in a daily driver.... *drools* even then, 200whp is good enough for me if I can keep my 5yr warranty without a single problem in my mind - I'll just laugh to myself wondering when that SRT-4 that left me behind is going to spew oil all over itself.... tomorrow? next week? you be the judge....

umm... saturn ion redline has 205WHP @5600 and no low end torque, 170@5250 - the SRT4 on the other hand puts out about 225hp at the wheels dyno'd... and 250 torque PEAKS AT 2200 THROUGH 4800RPMS :shock: they pack a severe punch, but you also have to remember that they're priced at MSRP 21k+.... even if the TRD blower costs 3grand that still puts the tC at $18645 - still about 3 grand LESS than either car... and would you really want to drive a neon? or a saturn? over a toyota built blown car?

with an extra $2500 in mods to spend on the tC compared to the competition you could get everything to compliment that charger, pullies, fuel management system, intercooler, header, exhaust, intake and probably all custom made to fit the TRD blower and you'd have no competition till you start getting into the high-end v6's and v8's.... for 21grand.... I'd say you could get about 250whp on stock internals without crossing that line of voiding your warranty if you play your cards right... as they say, as long as your intake doesn't make your wheels fall off you should be good to go.

From what I heard, they had to ratchet down the HP a bit because it was a little too agressive, and that's another reason it's taking such a while - dealing with the fuel system in this engine is a maor problem unless you just scrap it and start from scratch.... this engine wasn't meant for boost and they need to find a way around it... if you paid 6grand for the supercharger that came with all the fixins it wouldn't be much of a problem, but nobody would be willing to pay that unless they want to go all the way. TRD Sparks toyota said they're putting money down it'll be 40WHP for about $2500 installed. and if they DON'T calm it down, it'll be about 60-70WHP for $4000 installed - but there is only going to be ONE KIT.

Oh yeah, and the tC has shorter gearing than almost any car out there, and if you get the shifting down right you could pull anybody off the line with a good setup.... MMMmmmmm 250whp in a daily driver.... *drools* even then, 200whp is good enough for me if I can keep my 5yr warranty without a single problem in my mind - I'll just laugh to myself wondering when that SRT-4 that left me behind is going to spew oil all over itself.... tomorrow? next week? you be the judge....


I could'nt have said it better. Besides, there is always going to be a faster car than yours out there. You have to drive what makes you happy.

does anyone else feel that a 40 horepower gain for 3000 dollars is a little much. i mean you still wont have as many ponies as a rsx-s or a frickin saturn redline, lets just hope that it is more then 40 horses.

I called the guys at Jamasco and they're saying that for about $3000 you can thier ScionSpeed.com stage 1 turbo kit wich will be about 240hp to the wheels.

The TRD reps I have spoke with, have said the increase will be more around 60-75. Putting you around 215-225 whp. However, like it was mentioned before, its all speculation right now. Just wait for TRD to give an official post, and wait for dyno results.

Nothing beats warranted FI. Even if it will result in 220php/200whp. You have to be scary rich to be able to afford a $3000 turbo kit that leaves your $20K car without warranty.

why do you guys keep saying whp! a 60-75 increase on a stock tC is 220-235. thats at the flywheel!

The srt-4 has a "2.4-liter dual overhead cam 4-cylinder 16-valve Intercooled high-output Turbo engine produces 230 horsepower at 5,300 RPM and 250 pounds-feet of torque from 2,400 to 4,400 RPM" that is hp/tq....noy whp/wtq.

the Redline has A 2.0-liter Ecotec engine, featuring an Eaton helical Roots supercharger with 12 pounds of boost, an air-to-water intercooler, high-flow intake and exhaust manifolds, oil-jet cooled pistons and high-strength rod and piston assemblies, which all add up to an impressive 205-horsepower and 200 lb. ft. of torque.

all Crank hp/tq numbers!

the same goes for the chevy cobalt sc. and all these speculations about this TRD SC is nuts......i dont care if your sleeping with the TRD rep.......no one knows whats going on until TRD wants us too. sorry if i come off like a rant but hearing about this SC kit and all the speculation is just driving me nuts! ;)

I know the difference between hp at the crank and at the wheels. BUt the speculation Ive heard is that the supercharger is going to give 200hp at the wheels. Obviously I know that it will give more hp then at the crank but Ive heard they are formulating it so its 200 at the wheels.

i have always heard 40 hp at the crank. not teh wheels.

i have always heard 40 hp at the crank. not teh wheels.
I think it's going to be 26th time I mention it, but with TRD SC for the matrix they promised 160hp vs. 130hp stock, in real life my *auto* Matrix dyno'd 159whp... So there is hope :)

200whp tc with trd supercharger is decent gains. but doubful
200bhp tc with trd supercharger is not decent gains. but most likely :lol:

The TRD reps I have spoke with, have said the increase will be more around 60-75.

Are these the same reps that gave the auto magazines inflated "estimates" about the xB CAI and then became very quiet after real people could get hold of a car to dyne?

Let us all not forget, even with the SC you can usually replace the pulley for a bit more power. Some people don't like this kind of SC anyways, because it gradually builds boost to the max by the redline. I haven't made my choice yet for a TC or a SC. Warranty or not, I might go with a TC because it might give me the gains I want the way I want.

All this talk about the SC is, like people have said, not worth squat until we get a dyno power plot and numbers.

The TRD reps I have spoke with, have said the increase will be more around 60-75.

Are these the same reps that gave the auto magazines inflated "estimates" about the xB CAI and then became very quiet after real people could get hold of a car to dyne?

Hey George, go easy there. Whatever you do, don't suggest that manufacturers would ever inflate hp/torque numbers. :wink:

The 40 Hp gain was the original number that was produced from all the testing and prototyping. The SC that you see bolted up to the tC that they are using for marketing IS THE 40Hp version...it was already produced and ready to ship back in november BUT Toyota pulled the plug. The HP numbers for the price was not good enough...and Toyota realized that the "Tuners" also knew this...even with the promise of a warranty. The price and warranty Vs performance was not a positive equation...look at all the current turbo kits pumping out massive HP and around the same price of $3000.00 or a little higher. For 250-280 hp...screw the warranty...I want to blow the doors off of other rice burners.

The chevy Cobalt produces 145hp and it is a 2.0. Buy the Cobalt SC and with the same engine 2.0 at 10lbs of boost you get 205hp.

Now it is simple math...when hot rodding a car "There is no replacement for displacment". So with the tC having a 2.4l and a larger stroke than the Cobalt there is NO reason why the SC tC shouldn't produce MORE THAN a 40hp gain over stock. If the Cobalt can get 60hp increase with there SC bolt on then the tC should easily get close to the same thing if not closer to 70 or 75.

That's why they were told to go back to the drawing board. It is not a total redesign...but now just a matter of boost and getting all the fuel/CPU setting right and all the installation instructions out to the dealers AND reprinting all the literature...it is not a design issue anymore MORE than it being a logistical issue at this point.

They needed 4 more months to get everything back in line to ship product...any way my 2 cents

Brass

The TRD reps I have spoke with, have said the increase will be more around 60-75.

Are these the same reps that gave the auto magazines inflated "estimates" about the xB CAI and then became very quiet after real people could get hold of a car to dyne?

Hey George, go easy there. Whatever you do, don't suggest that manufacturers would ever inflate hp/torque numbers. :wink:

No, the manufacturers don't say a thing, but their media reps don't seem to have a problem with verbally passing inflated numbers to the car mags. The car mags dutifully report the inflated numbers as fact, but the manufacturers haven't put one number down on paper! Very slick that!

I remember the "horsepower wars" of the '60s, where manufacturers would inflate their power numbers by quoting it at the flywheel minus accessories. Ever seen a car being run without accesssories? :)

even if the TRD blower costs 3grand that still puts the tC at $18645 - still about 3 grand LESS than either car... and would you really want to drive a neon? or a saturn? over a toyota built blown car?

well put, i wouldn't drive a neon if it was gievn to me as a gift, but i would resell it! we'll just have to wait and see what becomes of the super charger

even if the TRD blower costs 3grand that still puts the tC at $18645 - still about 3 grand LESS than either car... and would you really want to drive a neon? or a saturn? over a toyota built blown car?

well put, i wouldn't drive a neon if it was gievn to me as a gift, but i would resell it! we'll just have to wait and see what becomes of the super charger

i drive what moves you<---- shaneless plug for free :wink:

but the price includes a warranty for a power adder. i think thats what would sell enough

thats why im so driven to the Blitz blower. just for relibility.

imo if its 40 hp at wheels still not worth it w/ cost of install

The srt-4 has a "2.4-liter dual overhead cam 4-cylinder 16-valve Intercooled high-output Turbo engine produces 230 horsepower at 5,300 RPM and 250 pounds-feet of torque from 2,400 to 4,400 RPM" that is hp/tq....noy whp/wtq.

all Crank hp/tq numbers!

the srt-4 is under rated and puts down 220-230*W*HP, and 230-240*W*TQ.

I've seen the car run 13.7-13.9 completely stock several times.

The HP numbers for the price was not good enough...and Toyota realized that the "Tuners" also knew this...even with the promise of a warranty. The price and warranty Vs performance was not a positive equation...look at all the current turbo kits pumping out massive HP and around the same price of $3000.00 or a little higher. For 250-280 hp...screw the warranty...I want to blow the doors off of other rice burners.

Now it is simple math...when hot rodding a car "There is no replacement for displacment". So with the tC having a 2.4l and a larger stroke than the Cobalt there is NO reason why the SC tC shouldn't produce MORE THAN a 40hp gain over stock.

Toyota and TRD and in the Warranty business. Do you think they, as a whole, care if a SC makes 40 or 70hp? Are they gonna trade punch for punch with HKS or Greddy? No. What's more likely? TRD had trouble passing Toyota's stringent reliability tests at different temperatures, altitudes, etc, etc.. Definately expect 40hp, 200HP at the crank.

Also remember that the only reason the motor in the TC is a 2.4 is because they increased the stroke. The engine isn't actually physically bigger than say a 2.0L, then piston just travels further. So in stock form, this is a great trick, but lowers the ceiling of safety when you add power or RPM.

-dp

Nothing beats warranted FI. Even if it will result in 220php/200whp. You have to be scary rich to be able to afford a $3000 turbo kit that leaves your $20K car without warranty.

This is like, every turbo or SC kit on the planet..

Toyota and TRD and in the Warranty business. Do you think they, as a whole, care if a SC makes 40 or 70hp? Are they gonna trade punch for punch with HKS or Greddy? No. What's more likely? TRD had trouble passing Toyota's stringent reliability tests at different temperatures, altitudes, etc, etc.. Definately expect 40hp, 200HP at the crank.

Also remember that the only reason the motor in the TC is a 2.4 is because they increased the stroke. The engine isn't actually physically bigger than say a 2.0L, then piston just travels further. So in stock form, this is a great trick, but lowers the ceiling of safety when you add power or RPM.

-dp

I disagree...For this car or BRAND "SCION" Toyota is almost certainly watching what aftermarket manufacturers are doing. The whole idea behind the brand IS accessories... Targeting a consumer base of 18-30.

This consumer group more than any other ARE the ones most likely to go out and by SC's or Turbo's. With this being said...this group is the consumer group more likely to void a warranty or should I say they take more risks than their 50 year old father.

Thus for this particular crowd...a "WARRANTY" is further down the scale on a Price vs. Performance vs. Warranty scale.

$4000.00 for 40hp AND you keep your warranty is lower on the scale than $4000.00 and 120hp and you "take a calculated risk that toyota originally made a good car that 9 times out of 10 wont break down before the 100,000 mile mark anyway.

Also I highly doubt that it is a reliability issue because of the factors that you state...The factors you state HAVE ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Mechanical performance. Temerature, Altitude...so on and so on are all a matter of CPU tweaks and Air/Fuel mixtures. Which is all done by the CPU and VVTI stuff.

The mechanics of a centrifigul SC or Vortex SC have been done a million times before and have been done a million times before BY TRD. So their knowledge of what they needed to produce was already known WAY before they even produced the prototype.

But until the items comes out we will never really know and it is all speculation. Even for me. I certainly don't have an inside track on things...But from a marketing and sales standpoint 40hp at $4000.00 isn't going to cut it.

I mean 100 dollars per 1HP...I would rather buy a 50Hp nitrous kit and take my chances.

200whp tc with trd supercharger is decent gains. but doubful
200bhp tc with trd supercharger is not decent gains. but most likely :lol:

Not a chance, Toyota isn't stupid and that out of touch....

Well first of all the TRD factory optional supercharger is a Centrifugal SC made by Vortech. It is the exact same supercharger that is made for the 2000 Honda civic SI's B16A2 engine. which is 160hp. same as the tC's 160hp. That supercharger claims the same power gain on the civic, roughly 200hp at the wheels or so. Well we had an opurtunity to test one of these out and throw some mods on it. With the addition of the optional power cooler from Vortech along with the optional boost upgrade kit (fairly inexpensive) larger fuel injectors, an additional in-line fuel pump, fuel presure regulator, and FMU, aong with a catback exhaust, and an MSD ignition system --- The civic put down 253 to the wheels. Total spent was around $800-$1000 on mods in addition to the supercharger, But that's with crazy discounts also. So I mean, you can get the supercharger put on the tC, but then I would seriously think about bold-ons that will make even more power in addition to the supercharger. but by the time your done you will have been able to Turbo it and get even more power, but the supercharger will be a lot more reliable for everyday driving, and require a lot less tuning.

ok im coming to believe that the TRD SC is gonna be +40hp and most likely less then 3k price range.

i mean around 3k; scionspeed, greddy, etc. have better turbos with more power for the same price.

arggh... then again toyota likes to jack their prices up on the accessories. i mean 500 bucks for a bazooka speaker and 60 bucks for a shift knob???? i hope the SC is less than 3k

it's all about the tuning after!

I believe there are about two people on this talk what know what they are talking about (you know who you are) and there are several (everybody else) they are talking out of there a$$. If you don’t' know what you are talking please don't corrupt anybody else mind to believing you know what you are talking about.