ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Okay, I've seen the photos too. I know this header looks like crap in them but I'm gonna give it try anyway. I was hesitant about the short tube design until I saw the TC header comparison where a similar short tube header from Alphawerks was picked #1 over the long tube headers from DC and Megan. I don't expect this header to outperform Strup or W-R or to look as good but I'l be very surprised if it doesn't provide the same ~5hp gain on a N/A engine with stock s-pipe and scuba. It may not be for everyone but I intend to keep the scuba to retain reasonable noise levels and at least some semblance of emissions compliance. My theory is that just eliminating the primary cat is worth ~5hp and this $135 header should do about as well as any in that regard.

Another thing I like about the CXR header is the bottom mounting bracket that attaches to the block like the stock header. That second engine attachment point should help minimize stress on the header and welds. I'm surprised that Strup and W-R didn't include it for all that money. I also cheaped out on the CEL fix and ordered a $30 SS angled version from ebay rather than the $55 W-R version.

Yes, I'm cheap. So cheap that my modified TC CAI only cost me ~$75. I'll post a full review of the header with installation results and pics within the next few weeks. Sorry but no dyno results.

TC header shootout:

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=82724

Edit: I screwed up. The short tube header in the TC dyno shootout was the Megan, not Alphawerks. My bad. Still, the Megan header added 8hp vs 9hp for Alphawerks. Not a huge difference.

FromTheOld

Good luck. Although you're trying to justify it, I see no point in doing the header when you've still got all the restrictions after it. It's not much, but you're still just wasting money on a header that might not fit. Who knows if it can stand up to the heat as well? The header might crack on you, etc.

Cheaping out on the intake is totally different than cheaping out on the header. All the intakes are just pipes with filters and sometimes heat shields. Intake design really isn't that hard. They're all the same (but for some reason people pay ridiculous amounts of money on them. Probably for CARB reasons), but on the other hand, header design is MUCH tougher. I doubt anyone realizes how hard it is to properly design an exhaust, and they just thing "bigger diameter" or "more sound" is better. I've done a lot of research on header/exhaust design and it's some complicated stuff. I'm not saying I know how to do it, I'm just saying I know how hard the process is.

Like I said, good luck with what you're doing.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

If it doesn't fit, I'm sending it back. I called them and asked if it would bolt up without any issues and they said it would. That's why I went with CXR instead of the ebay strup knock-off for $80. I called them and they told me that their header doesn't line up with the s-pipe and requires cutting and welding to fit.

As for the scuba restriction, I'll probably leave ~5hp untapped by not replacing it but I can always do that later on. Import Tuner got 5hp from adding a Strup header while retaining the stock exhaust to a TRD axle-back. I expect to get about the same but with a slightly different powerband.

Designing the optimal exhaust system for a given engine, powerband requirements and application is complicated but a simple equal-length, short-tube 4-1 header very similar to the stock header (minus the cat) should still add some hp.

Anyway, I may or may not regret trying this header but there's only one way to know for sure. I'll post my results ASAP, good or bad. Thanks.

FromTheOld

I think it's cause that strup replica on eBay is probably a tC one. If it isn't, then I don't even know why the made it

It's nice that you're trying to be the guinea pig though, good luck! Although it'll be hard for you to notice any gains if you don't dyno it, because "butt dynos" don't do good for these small minute things due to placebo effect, etc.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

I suspect the same thing about that so-called "XB" header on ebay. I considered having a muffler shop mod the s-pipe for it but decided it was too much hassle. Plus I like being able to go back to stock if I want to.

I really wish I could do before and after dyno runs but I don't even know where the nearest dyno is. CX-R claims that they dyno tested it and gained 5-7hp but we know how reliable manufacturer claims are. Strup claims 10-12hp and Import Tuner measured 5hp on the dyno. I hope I get more than 2.5-3.5hp but it wouldn't be too surprising either.

FromTheOld

Well, post up pictures of the header so we can all see what it really looks like in person. I want to see if my assumptions about CXRacing are right. For the record if it helps your cause, the CXRacing pictures make the header bends look pretty smooth, while the stock ones seem very rough and obviously crush bent. That alone should make the CXRacing headers better....but the quality of the welds, flanges, etc. worry me.

By the way, are you getting the CXR Headers from the source or from eBay?

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

I should be posting photos by now but they shipped me a downpipe instead of headers. Strike one. To their credit, they shipped the headers out the same day I received the wrong part and emailed a prepaid return shipping label for the downpipe. I should have the headers on Tuesday and I'll post a few hi-res pics.

I bought them from ebay (ETD Motors) for $135 but all correspondence has been direct from CXR. I'm not expecting much in terms of appearance but it shouldn't take much to polish them up a little.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

My CXR header arrived today so here are some pics. The finish is raw ss so it isn't very pretty. The welds look okay but not the best I've seen. I used to be a welding inspector so I know a little bit about weld quality. I'll install it tommorrow with more pics and installation comments.

FromTheOld

Whew! Looks sloppy as hell. I know that just because welds are ugly as hell that doesn't mean they're bad, but don't you need to X-Ray it to REALLY know the quality of the weld? Well, it's alright anyways, you could always just re-weld the welds. Could you stick a magnet towards all the parts of that header? I want to see if everything is 304 stainless steel and not 409 stainless steel. I also want to see if the welds are stainless and not normal welds.

Also, how thick is the material? If it's very thin, I'll bet it'll crack soon enough.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

I can't measure the thickness of the 1.5" I.D. head pipes but the 2.25" I.D. collector is 18ga. The head and collector flanges are 5/16" thick and magnetic but the piping is not.

I've seen better and worse looking welds. I didn't see anything that would lead me to expect any weld failures. Especially given the short length of the header and the additional supports between the collector and the engine block. My biggest concern is fitment. I intended to install it today but it rained and they're calling for rain for the next 3 days.

FromTheOld

18 gauge is awfully thin and magnetism in the flanges isn't too bad, but it could be better.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Most headers are either 18 ga or 16 ga. Strup uses 16 ga and I don't know what Weapon-R uses but probably 16 ga.

I didn't expect much for $135 but if they fit and last a few years, I'll be happy. We'll see how they fit when this rain finally stops.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Header installed with very little fuss. I had to bend the bottom brackets to fit and I also dremelled, filed and wet sanded the welds at the head flange for smoother flow. I haven't detected any leaks but the factory gasket is pretty thin. Considering that the head flange wasn't perfectly flat, a thicker gasket might be a good idea. The flange was warped a little (high in middle, low on ends) but appeared to flatten out when torqued down.

Nice performance boost, nice sound. I'm sure that the Strup and W-R headers are better quality and provide better power gains throughout the powerband but the seat of my pants tells me that these cheap headers provide the claimed 5-7whp peak gain. Sorry I couldn't do before and after dyno runs. From what little I know on the subject, long tube 4-1 headers like Strup provide better low and midrange gains than short tube 4-1 headers like these and 4-2-1 headers like W-R are even better.

Overall, I'm pleased so far considering the very low cost, good fit, perceived whp gain, sound and bling factor. I'll post some installed pics soon. Unfortunately they've already started to discolor from the heat but then so do all bare ss headers. At least they don't rust.

XD40tC

Cool! Might have to try these out as well. I'll let you "test" them out a little longer though. Def get pics!

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Had em on for a few days now. No leaks, no rasp, not bad for $135. I should have taken some pics while they were still nice and shiny but this is what they look like after a few hundred miles. My poor car is so dirty from the winter.

whitebreadbox

for what you paid, i wouldn't kick them out of bed for eating crackers!!! way to go and being willing enough to try something new. i hope you continue to enjoy them and they last a long time for you.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Thanks. I appreciate hearing something other than criticism of the welds.

FromTheOld

I'm glad the install went well for you.

I wasn't trying to be negative, I was just looking out for you. A lot of people get disappointed after they buy cheap stuff and complain about it, which makes me wonder why they did it in the first place.

Zsanz

throw a cel?


i see this is a shorty tube header ive seen the others have longer pipes before the collector..interested for a dyno shootout /sound clips

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Thanks. You're not the only person who's criticized the welds. I emailed those pre-installed pics to a buddy who knows more about metals and welding than I ever will and he didn't like them either. Then I got only one comment at XB Forums, another criticism of the welds. Maybe they'll crack sooner rather than later but only time will tell.

If nothing else, maybe these will last me until some more header choices become available.