Hey guys,
Looking at buying an xB and was wondering how they were in the snow.
Normally, I put my vehicles away for the winter, but, seeing as Scion's in Canada are few and far between, I have to jump on this deal right now. Therefore, ill be driving it for the rest of the winter.
Opinions/experiences?
Thanks.
Kris

We haven't gotten any significant snow in new jersey to see for myself, but from what a lot of ppl said, the xb handles really well in the snow.

get a good set of SNOW tires...its fine....

The xB handles amazingly in the snow. With VSC, traction control, and ABS all standard, plus FWD, it's fery good for snow driving. The VSC is amazing and will keep you going straight in just about anything. The only downside is the low ground clearance (I think it's 6.1") I can't tell you how many stuck vehicles I rolled past in our recent arctic storm.

I would not worry about replacing wheels or tires for snow driving. The stock tires do very well and are actually more of a snow tire. I have them without any problems. I am actually waiting for spring to get different wheels and tires since they do so well.

There are a whole lot of snow topics in this forum, try searching.

If you get one, you will not be disappointed, unless you plan on driving in deep snow. If there is regular plowing, you have nothing at all to worry about.

Check out this post I did a while back...
http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=38487&highlight=

The xB handles amazingly in the snow. With VSC, traction control, and ABS all standard, plus FWD, it's fery good for snow driving. The VSC is amazing and will keep you going straight in just about anything. The only downside is the low ground clearance (I think it's 6.1") I can't tell you how many stuck vehicles I rolled past in our recent arctic storm.

I would not worry about replacing wheels or tires for snow driving. The stock tires do very well and are actually more of a snow tire. I have them without any problems. I am actually waiting for spring to get different wheels and tires since they do so well.

There are a whole lot of snow topics in this forum, try searching.

If you get one, you will not be disappointed, unless you plan on driving in deep snow. If there is regular plowing, you have nothing at all to worry about.

I agree 100%. It's really one of the best I've ever had in the snow. I always have a winter rat around here and I've went through a few of them. From front drivers, to big heavy rear wheel drive, to four wheel drive. I fact the xB even seem like it has four wheel drive. I got the factory alloy wheels, so they gave me the stock steel wheels too. I just had 4 snows mounted and use the stock hubcaps during the winter. The only downside is, it's real hard to find snow tires in the factory tire size. Everyone I called kept saying "is it a Neon?". I ended up getting 4 Semperits(sp?) at about $68 per tire. Highly recommend it for snow duty !!

I have stock tires/wheels and am quite please with this car's ability in the snow, (and we've had some nasty tricky storms in recent weeks here).

yeah i have the stock steelies on right now...it sucks..i miss my 18"s but those sucked in the first and only snow they saw...oh well its gonna get warmer in chicago soon enough

The xB handles amazingly in the snow. With VSC, traction control, and ABS all standard, plus FWD, it's fery good for snow driving. The VSC is amazing and will keep you going straight in just about anything. The only downside is the low ground clearance (I think it's 6.1") I can't tell you how many stuck vehicles I rolled past in our recent arctic storm.

I would not worry about replacing wheels or tires for snow driving. The stock tires do very well and are actually more of a snow tire. I have them without any problems. I am actually waiting for spring to get different wheels and tires since they do so well.

There are a whole lot of snow topics in this forum, try searching.

If you get one, you will not be disappointed, unless you plan on driving in deep snow. If there is regular plowing, you have nothing at all to worry about.

Low??? It's not low at all.
The xB has 6.1" of ground clearance which is about 1" MORE than most cars on the road today.
That is measured from it's *lowest point* somewhere on the lower suspension arm.
The front ground effects are about 8" from the ground which is as much ground clearance as many SUV's.
The xB just "looks" low to the ground because it is square.

:wink:

I am from New Hampshire and my box did pretty well in the snow. The traction control really helps. But by no means can you go on the road and expect to ralley the car around like an STi or EVO but it hold its own with a good driver that know how todrive in those conditions. Snow tires would be a good add on.

I am from New Hampshire and my box did pretty well in the snow. The traction control really helps. But by no means can you go on the road and expect to ralley the car around like an STi or EVO but it hold its own with a good driver that know how todrive in those conditions. Snow tires would be a good add on.

And that my friend is *why* I have snow tires.
:wink:

does the traction control turn on by itself? I just had some bad snow, and it really didnt seem to handle that well in the snow - it was my first time in snow, so i dont know what to expect. It didnt skid, but if i press the gas or brakes down quickly it seemed to have no traction control

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
it can only do so much.

My xB has now been in a lot of snow, and well I'd have to say it's really no different from any other traction controlled, ABS equipped, FWD car. Which now adays, is pretty much all cars other than A/4WD jobbies.

We just had a first decent snow here in central virginia... I left work around 2:15 a.m. and there was ice everywhere and the roads weren't too good either. My xB did great though I took it slow to be careful.

does the traction control turn on by itself?

It is on by default. Always on unless you turn it off (there is a button). The VSC, however, is really what keeps the car on the road and it is always on. The trac only gives you traction by switching power to the non-slipping wheel. VSC does so much more to keep you safe.

On a side note, that beeping the VSC makes when the car starts to slide is freaky.

Roger (Scionara) takes his xB up to the snow every year w/ his son to go 'boarding.

Well I am in ohio and we just got a light dusting last night well thats what the weather man called it - I call it 6 to 7 inches at my place. Anyway on to the topic. The box Rocks - plain and simple. It was the first time I had a chance to really put it through its paces.
First and foremost the Traction Control.
Off - the car sucks and spins and spins and spins. Most likely due to the awsome power under the hood, and the low weight of the car.
On - just stomp the gas and away you go. I would however disagree with a previous poster. I believe this is a more sophisticated version of traction control, Primarily due to the fact that we also have VSC. A very simple TRAC will simply pass power to the non - spinning tire, this is generaly referred to as a limit slip. This generaly however leads to both tires spinning and you going no where. A more common application of TRAC would be one that applies slight brakeing to both wheels and or reduce power to increase the likelyhood of getting grip.
Now a more sophisitcated system like what I believe to be in our cars would would monitor the driving wheels and as one begins to rotate significantly out of sync with the other as well as in realation to the forward movement of the car. A small amount of breaking would be applied to the spinning wheel to bring it back in line with the other. That is why you do in fact get some wheel spin with trac on because its a gradual application of breaking since you are generally not in trouble when accelerateing. So kudos to Toyota for equiping this little guy with top of the line traction control

now the VSC. It is one smart little cookie.
You can in fact induce your car to spin if you TRY to do so. This system apprears to watch a lot of the actions taking place in the mechanicals of the car. For instace, sawing your wheel back and forth on a snow covered road getting all slippy and slidy will not, I repeat WILL NOT engage the VSC. Some how the brain knew I was trying to play based on my quick steering input throtle and aI am sure a viariety of other items. However after I was done having fun in the parking lot as I was pulling out I made a left hand turn onto an access road, very gently mind you because now I was entering public access. The rear end bust have engages some ice and it snapped what seemed like a couple inched out of whack. BEEP BEEP BEEP VSC caught it and corrected before I realised it was on.

Boys and girls let me tell you the BOX has a very sohpisticated VSC AND the TRAC uses the VSC mechanics and brains to provide us with a very capable white weather mobile.

Now my only problem is finding mine when it snows that much. Polar White? Yep thats about right.

^^^^good post^^^^

I was making the point that it is not the TRAC alone that keeps the box going where you want it to, it's the combination of TRAC and VSC. Some people giveTRAC more credit than is due. It just helps you get going...not to stop you from spinning.

And you were right, it is the more sophistocated form of the TRAC that we have, it brakes the slipping wheels.

Agreed. The computer system in the xB is very sophisticated and smart.
By tying the anti-lock braking system to the computer and using a series of Yaw sensors, wheel speed sensors, and throttle control, the computer can figure out where you want to go and compare it to where the vehicle is actually going, then correct it within mere seconds by using the following...
:idea:
Traction Control: gets you started by keeping the wheels from slipping.
Vehicle Skid Control: saves you if you start to skid by braking 1 to 3 wheels to correct your path
Anti-Lock Brakes with Brake Force Distribution: makes your stops short and straight with little to no sideways skidding

Now remember kids, the computer cannot overcome the lays of physics.
If you push it too hard, there is only so much the little car can do
to save itself from the loose NUT behind the wheel.
:rolling:

ok so after driving around tonight in the snow when I'd brake hard I notice the brake pedal popping back at me... is that normal?

~wC

The xB is even more sophisticated we think :bow: , here's an excerpt covering the Safety Systems from the the 2005 product intro:

VII. SAFETY SYSTEMS

A. Brakes, mechanical
1. 10.0’’ (255 mm) ventilated front rotors with 2-piston calipers
a. carbon fiber pads
b. rotors are 0.9’’ (22 mm) thick vs. 0.8’’ (20 mm) thick for ist, bB, and Echo
c. rotor side thickness = 8 mm vs. 6 mm
1) longer rotor life
2) dissipates more heat from long high-speed stops
2. 8’’ (200 mm) drum brakes at the rear

B. Brake Control Systems
1. xA has standard 4-wheel ABS; ABS ECU integrated with actuator
2. xB standard w/ ABS and VSC+TRAC
3. new ABS or VSC+TRAC actuators with integrated ECU
a. made by new supplier ADVICS;
1) joint venture formed by TMC, Denso, Aisin and Sumitomo Electric 2) 90% of sales to Toyota; 10% to other OEMs
4. Standard Brake Control Functions
5. Anti-lock Brake System
a. maintains steering capability
b. during braking at the threshold of traction

C. Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD)
1. dynamic adjustment of braking force at each wheel
2. transfers braking front-to-rear or side-to-side
3. works by measuring minute amounts of wheel slip under braking to balance individual wheel cylinder pressures to available traction
4. eliminates mechanical F-R proportioning valve (P-valve)

D. Brake Assist
1. on xB model only
2. via ABS/VSC actuator
a. pressure sensor on master cylinder detects “panic” brake application by signature rise rate.
b. if driver does not continue to apply sufficient pedal pressure for panic stop, additional pressure provided to calipers and wheel cylinders by VSC pump

E. VSC + TRAC
1. std on xB
2. TRAC limits wheelspin when accelerating on slippery surfaces
a. to preserve steering control
b. 2-way communication between the Skid Control ECU and the ECM
1) individual cylinders, up to 3 cylinders, are shut off to
reduce engine output to match available traction
2) brakes of individual wheels applied to reduce slip:
transfers torque across to the other driven wheel
3. VSC detects and counters early onset oversteer or understeer
a. by cutting off fuel to 1 to 3 cylinders and
b. applying brakes at individual wheels to counter yaw moment
4. wheelspin is detected by individual wheel speed sensors
5. incipient understeer or oversteer detected by central yawrate sensor
6. New design ABS/VSC actuator
a. Rotary gear pump rather than 2-piston pump
b. Quieter, smoother operation

ok so after driving around tonight in the snow when I'd brake hard I notice the brake pedal popping back at me... is that normal?

~wC

The pedal "pop" or "pulsing" is the anti-lock brake system automaticly "pumping the brakes" for you to prevent the wheels from locking up.
Now all you gotta do is "stomp & steer"
:wink:

The xB is even more sophisticated we think :bow: , here's an excerpt covering the Safety Systems from the the 2005 product intro:

VII. SAFETY SYSTEMS
. . .


Thanks for the great info!
Can you *please* post the links for the source
and do they have data for the 2004?

Thanks!
:D

the specs should be the same....

~wC

In fact that was from the 2004 Product Introduction, :doh: I didn't notice that initially. I tried to find the web site again where it was posted but I am unable to pull it up in Google. It was an Toyota press release site for the media. Luckily I downloaded the document when I found it, it's a 32 page pdf file covering the xA & xB in greater detail then I've seen anywhere. PM me with your email address and I'll send it to you.

I had the opportunity to drive '05 xB in some snow this weekend. Lost Canyon Camp @ Williams, AZ had about 5-6 inches of snow. (with a little ice underneath).

With stock suspension, engine, factory alloy wheels and tires, I had absolutely no problems. It was very sure footed. Funny to see a big Yukon fishtaling while the little xBox just moved forward.

That's the 2nd big SUV in a week that I've seen with 2WD. Why anyone would buy a behemoth SUV with only 2WD is beyond my ability to comprehend. They pay a premium for the vehicle itself, pay another premium at the gas pump due to poor gas mileage, and then at the time they could REALLY use an SUV, they can't because it is only rear 2WD.

its really good. ive been stuck maybe like 2 times in over a foot of snow. for a max of 5 mins. im not worried when i drive my car in the snow, only thing i am worried about it someone else losing control

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/rupinder/1.jpg