So a question and I HAVE searched for this. I understand everyone needs research before going turbo and that's what I'm still doing. Oh, and I was about to get a tc, but didn't think it was worth pure price. But i saw the xb, drove a blackberry crush auto and fell in love with it. I still haven;t gotten it but planning on sometime in August before school starts.

For my noob question.

So as I understand, you press the acc. pedal, ur engine revs higher, u release more exhaust gases, ur turbo spools faster the more exhaust u release, and u get boost.

I understand you lose boost in a manual since you have to let go of the acc. pedal when u shift. What I don't understand is, why don't you lose boost in an automatic. My logic is this, if you still keep the pedal pressed, the rpm's are still gonna go down when the auto shifts. so aren't you supposed to lose boost then, since u have less exhaust gases? When I researched I hear ppl saying you don't lose boost in an auto, but I am asking WHY?

This has always been at the back of my mind, since I understand the average turboed xb hits boost after 2750ish rpms, so I need to know how/why I would maintain boost if I got an auto xb2 and turboed it.

I'm no expert but IMO the reason why a AT doesn't lose much boost when changing gears is because the throttle remains wide open, allowing enough air flow through the engine to keep the turbo spooling. With a MT, when you let off the throttle to shift, the throttle plate closes, airflow is reduced, the BOV opens to vent excess intake pressure, you lose boost and there is some lag time while the turbo spools up again.

The downsides to a turbo AT setup are that it's slower to build boost off the line and has more parasitic loss. However, the lower boost at launch may actually be a benefit due to reduced wheel spin vs a MT launching at higher rpm/boost.

pretty much exactly what he said right there.

keep in mind automatic and manual transmissions both lower rpms when they upshift, but since the automatic never closes throttle unless you lift your foot, you never fall out of boost.

but the other thing is that the automatic transmissions don't like too much power like the manual transmissions do. the manual transmission can take much more power, just gotta swap in a stronger clutch, but the automatic can only take about 250 whp before it needs some expensive upgrades to make it withstand any more.

pretty much keep your foot on the throttle like they said

but the other thing is that the automatic transmissions don't like too much power like the manual transmissions do. the manual transmission can take much more power, just gotta swap in a stronger clutch, but the automatic can only take about 250 whp before it needs some expensive upgrades to make it withstand any more.

Good info there. I plan to eventually boost my AT XB but didn't know how much whp this tranny could take. I was planning to run about 5-7psi and hoping for 200-225whp. IYO, can the AT handle that?

thanx a lot scionfred and draxcaliber....i always wondered that...

so some more questions if u will please

so i had always thought the amount of boost was related to the rpms u were running....but apparently....i guess....the engine creates a lot more exhaust gas than it needs to at like around 3000rpm

so, with that, since it's an auto, and i need it as a dd...i plan to keep it at a low 7psi...if kept at this psi....i understand dezod and turbotoyotas have turbos out already....would i be able to hit boost in 1st gear or more around second or third....just an estimate of around when i can expect to hit complete boost....no means expecting u guys to be dead on...

and another question...if running same everything....i understand gearing is diff between the 5spd and auto...but in a straight up drag race...wouldn't the auto win due to no lag except for the start up whereas the 5spd would lose boost every time it shifted??

thank u guys a lot. i hear scionlife really hates noobs...but apparently just ones that don't use the search button :)

i have a manual and i dont loose boost between shifts what you got on that lol

oh and dont buy the auto if your going to turbo it it wont take the abuse like a manual will

and no a auto one wont be as fast due to the slushbox taking power to lock up the converter kinda sucks you know just buy the manual its cheaper sportier and alot more fun to drive

i know im boosted any questions on boost can be answered by me lol im kinda the only one going wild with the xb2 thats not a shop

ha i no...i've been "scionlife stalking" ur turbo thread since u seem to be the craziest on here....

plus i have to say i love the black wheels on a blackberry crush...not so much a fan of the crimson mica...looks more maroonish imo but thats all ill get if i get an 2010...

but ya..i would get a stick
but
1. i don't no how to drive a stick
2. the college i go to it takes me around 1.5 hrs to travel the 14 miles there one way...worst case...usually around 55 min but thats still pretty bad
and as i understand even the most experienced driver will kill a clutch pretty quickly in 25ish mph stop and go traffic
3. can't i use the "tiptronic" and use that when i race? (not sure what toyota calls their semiauto)

but kittenjames....damn good job on ur ride and for being the guinea pig..im too scared to test stuff on my own ride seeing as i am just learning turbos and all

the stock auto dosent like the power you will have to lift off to shift and its not hard to learn how to drive a stick find a friend should take him about half a hour to teach you and you will never go back i drive my car in stop and go traffic all the time drives like a normal car minus how low it is but you will toast the auto trannie you have to lift off the gas to get it to shift so who knows just get the stick

i killed my stage 5 after 1000 miles and i month i got it out yesterday i handled it i will be calling clutch masters today say wtf stage 5 my but lol

Yeah, only a MT can handle boost. Maybe you should consider lifting when you shift? :rofl:

no lift shift kills mu ignition till the clutch is released and if was at 250 hp it would have been fne but im well over that

wait...so i understand it won't want to shift w/more than 250 whp...but see i really don't want more than that...lol...everyone says that until they get a turbo and then they just go crazy...

but me...i really do plan of not going over 250whp...id be plenty happy w/that...just want some oomph and i hate the bolt-on way...

so anyway...so if i am getting 250 to the wheels but drive it gentlly wont the auto shift np....

in my mind...auto=best for my case since i am either going really fast or really easy....never inbetween...so i figure most of the time i can just put in auto, and then put in semi when i wanna race or just merge onto the interstates...

so i really don't mind having to lift everytime i need to shift...lol...this is cause the civic owner before me decided to not change the tranny fluid until 90k miles...now it hesitates so i typically wait a sec or 2 for it to shift and lift my foot off....so im actually really really reallly slow

so ya..

Personally, I've never heard of a electronically controlled AT needing a throttle-lift to shift. I remember having that problem with an old TH400 when the vacuum modulator was out of adjustment but that was a long time ago.

IMO, if you want a AT that's what you should get. I've heard that they are okay up to 250whp but to be safe, I'm planning on staying at or below 200whp with mine.

BTW, there is a vast difference between a semi-auto tranny like the Tiptronic and our slush-box with "Sport mode" shifting.

there is a boosted auto in miami he made 210 whp andd has to lift to shift

there is a boosted auto in miami he made 210 whp andd has to lift to shift

Seems odd to me. Maybe his tranny is buggered?

he was using the cxr kit he was the first one he had to liift to shift

he was using the cxr kit he was the first one he had to liift to shift

Not that it has anything to do with this topic, but how's he doing with that CXR kit anyway?

he was using the cxr kit he was the first one he had to liift to shift

Uh huh... :silly:

he was i forget his name he is the one that was working in conjunction to get the kit going he is the one that has the vids on youtube thats the guy i wish i knew his name

Kevin? It must be tough for them to collaborate between CA and FL.

maybe the guy in fl had the tredstone kit he is the only boosted auto i have seen he was in fl though hmmm

Probably Treadstone. Ancla claims to develop the Treadstone kits and they are in FL.

AFAIK, CXR's stuff is developed by Rene of Rene Motorsports in CA.

yeah well either way he had to lift to shift

scionfred...

im guessing urs is an auto?? what turbo u going w/or custom kit??

i personally think i should be ok w/an auto that's boosted around 250whp cause thats my goal...im expecting it last me 100k miles w/maybe a spirited drive once a month for maybe 2-3 miles....am i safe to assume that on 250whp??

im expecting it last me 100k miles w/maybe a spirited drive once a month for maybe 2-3 miles....am i safe to assume that on 250whp??

There are so many variables on the way to 100,000 miles, and even then, that's still probably pushing it anyway since the transmission was not meant to handle the increased torque.

ScionFred, there is no reason you should need to lift to shift w/auto. This is not to say Cory is not telling it the way he saw it - this is possible. There is no vacuum line or any other control other than the electronics that appear to control the shift on this, XB2nd gen, transmission. So starts the mistery.

I want to build an auto XB2. My worry are the clutches & planets... How large a cooler & converter. I need 1 of these to take apart & sort. I'm speculating that these slush boxes will hold over 230bhp without much work. "speculating" & knowing = fail & win in this scenario.

250 in a auto will fry it faster then bush got out of town

Getting a transmission cooler will help as heat is one of the biggest killers of automatic transmissions. From there, I suggest you go have your automatic built by IPT for around 4000 bucks.

Getting a transmission cooler will help as heat is one of the biggest killers of automatic transmissions. From there, I suggest you go have your automatic built by IPT for around 4000 bucks.

Yes, the cooler would be a big player.

For 4k it sounds like IPD is replacing everything, sun, planets, clutches & a reworked valve body. I know those guys, they build some bullet prof stuff. I'm not building a drag car, although that would be fun. I want a high hp DD that has good driving characteristics. I'm sure I can build 230bhp, 200# & have what I'm looking for with an auto. There's quite a bit I need to know about this auto.

I have a good friend with an A4 auto that I build a 48mm Garrett 250bhp - 230#tq 2l for. It's still using the OE auto trans. It's gone well over 30k without a problem - and yes it has a big cooler with a fan..... What it boils down to is load - how much. Some of this new stuff is way better than I'm use to thinking. High hp front wheel drive with an automatic transmission, a slusher at that...... with a small 4 cylinder engine making 230bhp, 25 years ago - whoda thunk it????

Hey, if I blow the trans ( possible but not likely ), I'll know what to spend time reworking. I think Cory blew his CM up.... stuff fails..... In this case, MT, high hp is bad for an OE clutch. I can tell you the OE clutch MUST be replaced with any FI app on a gen 1 XB - I have an 05 with a blower. The gen 2 clutch slips even more, more than I expected.

For now I have a shop that can make me some clutches & that the extent of all I really know. The rest is pure speculation & a well educated guess...

And thanks for your post!

stock clutch starts slipping at about 330 whp at 5000 miles and i have been rough on it
stage 5 never slipped but blew up
there is a guy here with a auto that ran a 75 shot of n2o on his car put down 200 whp blew his tranny in 3 months and 2 bottles of n2o

its a game of chance
mech linkage will always hold more power
over a fluid lock just common sense

i think with a cooler you will be a little safer but still running the risk

For 4k it sounds like IPD is replacing everything, sun, planets, clutches & a reworked valve body.

Yes, everything is changed and a different torque converter is included.

Not that it means anything, but they are actually a few minutes away from me :)

scionfred...

im guessing urs is an auto?? what turbo u going w/or custom kit??

i personally think i should be ok w/an auto that's boosted around 250whp cause thats my goal...im expecting it last me 100k miles w/maybe a spirited drive once a month for maybe 2-3 miles....am i safe to assume that on 250whp??

Good guess, AT here. I bought the CXR kit with a T3/T4. I wish I knew how strong this AT is but I assume that Toyota wouldn't offer a SC for it if they felt it couldn't handle at least 200whp. 250whp may be pushing it a little but IMO that depends greatly on how you drive it. If you wanna do a lot of neutral drops and burn-outs, Cory may be right.

BTW, I just helped my parents drive their 2001 Highlander with our same 2.4 engine/4spd AT from FL to PA fully loaded and towing a heavily loaded U-haul trailer. No problems. Their Highlander is rated to tow 3000lbs and we probably exceeded that. I don't know if the Highlander has a better AT cooler but it might. I'm not the least bit worried about running 200whp on my AT.

ScionFred, there is no reason you should need to lift to shift w/auto. This is not to say Cory is not telling it the way he saw it - this is possible. There is no vacuum line or any other control other than the electronics that appear to control the shift on this, XB2nd gen, transmission. So starts the mistery.

I want to build an auto XB2. My worry are the clutches & planets... How large a cooler & converter. I need 1 of these to take apart & sort. I'm speculating that these slush boxes will hold over 230bhp without much work. "speculating" & knowing = fail & win in this scenario.

I agree. I find it hard to believe that Toyota and TRD would offer a fully warrantied SC producing well over 200bhp if they didn't think the AT could handle it. Then there is the expected safety margin that they surely included. In any case, I'm only planning on about 200whp and I'm not at all worried about my AT. I've broken 2 MTs before but never broke an AT. Not to say that an AT is stronger, simply stating my personal experience.

Their Highlander is rated to tow 3000lbs and we probably exceeded that.
Just curious where you came up with that tow weight, since the 2.4L is rated by Toyota at 1500 lbs. tow capacity (2WD & 4WD), and the 3.3L V6 is rated by Toyota at 2000 lbs. tow capacity (2WD & 4WD).

Their Highlander is rated to tow 3000lbs and we probably exceeded that.
Just curious where you came up with that tow weight, since the 2.4L is rated by Toyota at 1500 lbs. tow capacity (2WD & 4WD), and the 3.3L V6 is rated by Toyota at 2000 lbs. tow capacity (2WD & 4WD).

The owner's manual. I was surprised too since a lot of online sources indicate lower figures. Here is a link I just googled for confirmation (look under 'performance').

http://www.theautochannel.com/vehicles/new/reviews/2001/russ0131.html

Fred, you already have the turbo kit? If so, this project should be very interesting. I like it!

The TC SC adds 42 to about 48bhp. If Toyota can add this as an option for an auto ( the drivetrain deal is shortened to 12K ) you'd think the turbo would work fine at somewhere south of 230bhp.

The 1 thing I don't like is how lazy the shift is. I'm thinking valve body but it could be the electronics.

The 1 thing I don't like is how lazy the shift is. I'm thinking valve body but it could be the electronics.

Both. It has to be setup like that for the "typical consumer".

Both is not good. I was hoping for electronics like some of the German builds.

"typical consumer" = "Oh, I let the rain wash my car"

German builds also include automatic transmissions that aren't based on Torque Converters....

Also yes, the typical consumer = people here on ScionLife = ricers. lol :)

AND - "kit" = something you need to fix before you can fix it.......

The non converter transmissions are very very good.

A little off topic - hedge funders own over 10% of GM's debt. So, if GM fails, since the debt is insured for more than than the actual value, these hedge funders will make about 2bil. Over the last 10 years, I wonder how many trillions of dollars the big 3 have pumped into the economy. Bailing the big banks out that make no product & no real bail out for the big 3........ Fiat may be the company building our new mass transit........ Just a quick rant

Fred, you already have the turbo kit? If so, this project should be very interesting. I like it!

The TC SC adds 42 to about 48bhp. If Toyota can add this as an option for an auto ( the drivetrain deal is shortened to 12K ) you'd think the turbo would work fine at somewhere south of 230bhp.

The 1 thing I don't like is how lazy the shift is. I'm thinking valve body but it could be the electronics.

Actually, Fedex has my kit. :) I just ordered AEM UEGO and boost gauges and 440cc Destschwerks injectors yesterday. I haven't decided whether to get the AEM FIC now or wait to see if I really need it. I'd like to wait until a PnP harness is available. I'm hoping that the ECU can handle 5psi with 20% larger injectors but I won't know until I try it. IMO the TRD SC flash might be worth a try but the money might be better spent on the FIC and tune.

As for the AT, I believe it can handle south of 230bhp if you don't abuse it and I'm willing to risk it. I've heard that even with a shift kit the ECU still keeps the lazy shift. I'll probably add a tranny cooler to be safe.

Fred, you already have the turbo kit? If so, this project should be very interesting. I like it!

The TC SC adds 42 to about 48bhp. If Toyota can add this as an option for an auto ( the drivetrain deal is shortened to 12K ) you'd think the turbo would work fine at somewhere south of 230bhp.

The 1 thing I don't like is how lazy the shift is. I'm thinking valve body but it could be the electronics.

Actually, Fedex has my kit. :) I just ordered AEM UEGO and boost gauges and 440cc Destschwerks injectors yesterday. I haven't decided whether to get the AEM FIC now or wait to see if I really need it. I'd like to wait until a PnP harness is available. I'm hoping that the ECU can handle 5psi with 20% larger injectors but I won't know until I try it. IMO the TRD SC flash might be worth a try but the money might be better spent on the FIC and tune.

As for the AT, I believe it can handle south of 230bhp if you don't abuse it and I'm willing to risk it. I've heard that even with a shift kit the ECU still keeps the lazy shift. I'll probably add a tranny cooler to be safe.

Hey Fred, get everything together & see what you have first. You'll want to know what the AF is at different ranges & EGT since IT is the end product.

440s should work well. The Denso ECU is really pretty good. 20% might be a little much to learn, but I went from 320s to 370s on my 05 blower car & it worked out AF = 11.6 to 1 after a few tanks of fuel ( maybe 3 ). That said, a real tune would be much better since there are more issues than just AF - So, IMHO the TRD tune is not optimal. Still this is all speculation.

There's a shift kit for the XB? Cooler, yes & something as big as you can fit, like something for a T350 in a sedan.

Keep us posted 8)

Hey Fred, get everything together & see what you have first. You'll want to know what the AF is at different ranges & EGT since IT is the end product.

440s should work well. The Denso ECU is really pretty good. 20% might be a little much to learn, but I went from 320s to 370s on my 05 blower car & it worked out AF = 11.6 to 1 after a few tanks of fuel ( maybe 3 ). That said, a real tune would be much better since there are more issues than just AF - So, IMHO the TRD tune is not optimal. Still this is all speculation.

There's a shift kit for the XB? Cooler, yes & something as big as you can fit, like something for a T350 in a sedan.

Keep us posted 8)

Ideally I'd like 550cc but I'm sure they'd be too much for the ECU. I suspect that the SC flash also pulls some timing and should be pretty close for a 5-6psi turbo but it's all just speculation on my part.

I just happened across a post in the TC FI section saying that the ECU kind of overrides a modified valve body. OTOH, there are other posts saying that a vavle body helps a lot. Apparently there is no kit available so it was probably an IPT or Level10 valve body.

I haven't read this yet but it looks very interesting.

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=208822&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=auto+tranny&&start=20

IPT Valve Body Modification = ~600

The link is very interesting.... I need to spend more time reading this site.

A rule of thumb is the injector size should not exceed the size of the engine. 600's would make that number. With the available management, the rule is out the window. The SC tune will pull timing but it may be way off from what your turbo wants. Then add 440s to the mix....... I do not know. I think at 5 -6 #, I'd leave everything as is. Log some data.......

IPT Valve Body Modification = ~600

That looks good. If it improves the shift 50% it would be worth it. To me the Xb is a very layze, Layze. Eliminate 1 layze = win.

1 thing I haven't found anyone using is the Weapon manifold.

cause you need to something to tune for it its not a simple bolt on

The link is very interesting.... I need to spend more time reading this site.

A rule of thumb is the injector size should not exceed the size of the engine. 600's would make that number. With the available management, the rule is out the window. The SC tune will pull timing but it may be way off from what your turbo wants. Then add 440s to the mix....... I do not know. I think at 5 -6 #, I'd leave everything as is. Log some data.......

Thanks. That sounds like a good plan. I checked and I could fit one monster of a tranny cooler up front but I settled for a 11x7x3/4" B&M rated for 13,000 BTU. I think it will do the job and it was only $47 from Amazon. Now I just have to determine which is the supply line and which is the return... :question:

I'm in the process of getting my xD turbo'd by Todd over at TT and mine is also an AUTO...I believe were gonna run it at 9#'s of boost and were shooting for HP numbers anywhere from 180-200 since it's about 105 to the wheels stock...Todd seems to think my tranny will hold up fine but only time will tell...

Might have to look into getting a tranny cooler myself...

YELOSUB, for sure. Get a cooler.
BYTW - 200 in an XD = BIG FUN. I have a Cooper "S" with a little over 200, it's a little over 100lbs lighter but won't make the TQ your XD will make.
This is a fun project. Keep us posted.........