okay, this has been something that has been bugging me for a while now, i think it is a neat capability of my tc, but i'm not sure if it is normal, abnormal or luck, but my tc, a 2005 supercharged manual transmission tc can idle in gear with the clutch released and pull itself forward like it was an automatic transmission car in "D" with your foot off the gas and brake pedal.

i first realized this when i was stuck in stop and go traffic leaving a crowded sports park, and i was getting tired of 1st, 2nd stop, repeat. so out of curiousity, i left the car in second, and wanted to see how low my rpms would go before the car stalled out, and amazingly, it didn't. the car began idling and moving along at 4-5 mph in 2nd gear without a single problem.

later on i began experimenting with my car approaching stoplights at intersections. i'll downshift to 2nd, watch my a/f gauge go to "---" and the car will slow down, then at just under 1000 rpms, the a/f gauge will come back to about 14.7-15.3 a/f and start idling forward and not stall.

yesterday i tried doing this in 3rd gear, and it still worked, about about 7 mph, it was struggling a bit, but it wouldn't stall out, i was shocked.

i can do this in 1st gear too, i can even slowly let the clutch in without giving the car any gas, and the car will start moving forward and not stall out. makes stop and go traffic not so scary if the car can just idle along with traffic and not need to speed up and slow down over and over again.

i showed this to kanundrum, and he said his tc absolutely couldn't do this, so i'm wondering if maybe some part or combination of parts is making my car able to move itself in gear solely on the idle program.

parts i think are responsible are the light weight crank pulley, and light weight flywheel which allow the engine to spin more freely with the reduced rotating mass. also the polyurethane motor mounts maybe keep the engine brom bucking and torquing when it is about to stall, so it has enough power to keep moving the car. or maybe the 9.5 psi pulley and the supercharger made the car strong enough that it can make enough power at idle to keep moving the car without stalling.

i also tried this with a friends 2005 bmw 330i sedan and it could idle in 2nd gear without stalling, but it was really struggling, while my tc puts along even up moderate hills in 2nd gear.

so is my tc a freak, or can anybody else's car do this?

every tc can do that. atleast mine can. Its the ratio of 1st gear vs the weight of the car.

i could do this, but it stalls, well... only in 1st gear....

haha...

have you tried like 5?

if it works, wow your car is really a freak.

Its gotta be a combo of supercharger and lightweight pullys. cuz i'm N/A with no pully's and it certainly stalls when i try that.

BTW you got some nice numbers with the SC haha. must be fun.

If it is idling to low, like the MAF is dirty, their won't be enough RPM to idle drive. But 1000 RPM and our first gear is a high torque gear. I used to do that in my toyota 4x4 all the time, I still catch myself doing it now in traffic jams.

i can do it too just gotta let the clutch out real slow

i can do it too lol my neighborhood is all hills and i was trying to see how steep the hill would have to be for my car to stall but i gave up once i got to the top of my street :P

If it is idling to low, like the MAF is dirty, their won't be enough RPM to idle drive. But 1000 RPM and our first gear is a high torque gear. I used to do that in my toyota 4x4 all the time, I still catch myself doing it now in traffic jams.

nah, idle is about 700 rpms or so, and it is funny, sometimes the car feels like it is idling rough, but i check he tach, and it is completely still, but the motor mounts and suspension bushings make the car shake a bit more.

and it actually idles much better than it did when it was n/a and before it had the motor mounts and such, it actually used to hunt up and down between 500 and 1200 rpms regularly. now i come to a stop and it just goes straight to 700 rpms and stays put.

i can do that too...i just leave my car in D lol...how i wish now that i had a manual tranny

well, to me it is like...if all manual transmission cars can do this, why do people complain about stop and go traffic and clutches? just let the car crawl through traffic like you have an automatic.

the car has plenty of pick up to pull away at lost speeds in 2nd gear.

mine does

My car does the same, but i only tired it in 1st gr while i was going over a speed bump. Also i drove my friends golf which was turbo and his does the same thing... I'm guessing its normal...

If it is idling to low, like the MAF is dirty, their won't be enough RPM to idle drive. But 1000 RPM and our first gear is a high torque gear. I used to do that in my toyota 4x4 all the time, I still catch myself doing it now in traffic jams.

nah, idle is about 700 rpms or so, and it is funny, sometimes the car feels like it is idling rough, but i check he tach, and it is completely still, but the motor mounts and suspension bushings make the car shake a bit more.

and it actually idles much better than it did when it was n/a and before it had the motor mounts and such, it actually used to hunt up and down between 500 and 1200 rpms regularly. now i come to a stop and it just goes straight to 700 rpms and stays put.

Sometimes you have to come to a complete stop.

mine does, and all I have is a GFI...

mine stock egnine MT and i can do it in 1 & 2.....good ol' tC Torque!

It's normal, just like everyone else's tC, including mine.

wow thats neat! i cant do that with mine. it stalls in first and second.

yep pretty much normal. and i found that out the same way you did! in stop and go traffic :P

good ol' stop and go traffic....

thats actually kinda how i learned to drive stick. i would just let out slowly on the clutch in first until the car started rolling and i would let out all the way and let it roll before stopping and trying again. i use second gear to roll around in parking lots all the time because i find that first is kinda jerky when im just crawling around.

my car does it too haha didn't know if it was normal, 1st gear it can roll without stalling at like 700/800 rpm and stay that way till I have to brake or if there's an incline

my car does this on reverse. i was on the bottom of a small hill. as i was reversing and let go of the gas the car slightly started pushing itself up without shutting down

thats actually kinda how i learned to drive stick. i would just let out slowly on the clutch in first until the car started rolling.
Yea same here, lol....but every other stick ive drivin has been able to do this, Isn't that considered the "Catch Point"

idk all my other cars never did this (02 si, 98 jetta)

My xD does this?

I went up a steep driveway in 1st at about 500rpm really smooth no bucking or chatter at all - mostly because of the VVTi in these engines. 1st gear is good for about 2mph at idle . . . slower than walking and I regularly take off in first and second from my parking space with NO gas at all when the engine is cold and racing a little. I actually have to keep my foot on the brake as there is too much power at idle.

You been driving a stick HOW LONG???

pretty much every car can do this, it's a little thing called torque, it keeps our cars moving, you just have to release the clutch right, i can actually get my tc to do it up to 3rd gear (probably not the best idea, probably puts stress on the engine/transmission)

mine did it right off the dealership.. i showed it to them cause i thought theres something wrong cause none of my previous manual cars ever just not stalled.. i showed it to them and they had no idea then they tried it in other tc and another and another then the xb.. but the xb stalled but 3 tcs and mine did not.. i love it.. specially in houston traffic i absolutely love it.. tc rules..

well, i was driving today and had a red light long off into the distance, and i went for it to see if i could idle in 5th gear!!! and it did!! right at about 14 mph, didn't have long to sit and wait to see how long i could keep it up once the light turned green, but yeah, it can do it in 5th, i love how i'm still learning about the car after 4 years of ownership!

mine seems to coast around 1500 RPM's
i can feel the change, the car kind of jerks a little, but thats about the time i usually put it in N.
never really let it get any lower, ill have to try it out tomm if i remember and let you know.

I'm trying it right now to coast it in 5th, 14mph? ill let u guys know if I can lol I know I can do it in 1st and 2nd.

mine does it in first and second =)

I really have to try this cause i didnt think that was possible in a manual. But sadly enough i cant for a lil while longer since I am deployed.

yes they can do this

On a slight downhill roll out of a parking lot today I think I was about 500rpm in 5th at about 12 mph and just let it build up speed on the down hill. You guys running conventional oils in your engines have to watch out for really low RPMs for too long a time - could run the valves and cylinders a little dry without some splash lubrication. In my case I am running Synlube which can handle really low rpms since it is a solid lubricant that has already coated the metal surfaces.

I tried it today in 2nd gear going up my driveway, it idled at like 500 rpm and kept going without any throttle. It was kind of cool, don't think this is good for the car though.

*1000th post

Ya, it's pretty normal. Whenever I'm in a school zone, I'll shift up to 4th and 5th and just let it idle through. The poly motor mounts make the car shake a lot though in 5th gear.

haha me and a buddy used to race up and down parkin lots without usin the gas... in my bone--stock SCM i can start out in 1st and shift all the way through 5th without touching the gas on a flat parkin lot.... it gets up to about 16-18mph in fifth just idlin along......

Damn, all you ppl have discovered my secret on why this is such a good car for stop and go traffic. Our ECU has an idle maintain feature because its a manual to account for different loads on the engine. Since its a manual it must be able to idle properly with both clutch engaged and transmission in neutral, or with clutch disengaged. Now the transmission (even in neutral) has a fair bit of mechanical drag to it so manufactures have the ECU recognize when engine RPM drops below the idle point and it adjusts the throttle ever so slightly to overcome that. So it doesnt surprise me that we can trick that system into driving our cars at idle. Plus we do have a fairly torquey engine and short gears.

Now that im done nerding up this thread, its back to idle racing! woot. the tCs most competitive sport!

your car also moves if you gently push the shifter up in any direction from neutral.

correctamundo! as the synchros try to speed up the output shaft to match the input shaft. Itll wear the synchros badly if you do it too much tho.

very interesting.....im gonna try this.......if it works for me stop and go traffic wont be a harsh.....i wonder if any other non scion stick owners know about that you know....wouldnt it make life easier in traffic just curious and then people woudnlt mind traffic with a stick

know what? That you can engage in moving by releasing the clutch a bit? I thought that was common knowledge for anyone that has driven any manual vehicle.

yeah i just leave mine in second or first, depending on what kind of mood i'm in :P but i know when it gets reallll low like 3mph it starts chugging a little bit, i have the fidanza flywheel though. when i didn't it was a little smoother.

this does not work on my car, i use to drive my friends srt4 all the time and his can do that so easy the rpms dont even move but in my NA TC stock clutch it will die in first and second