Alright guys, I figured it was time to start a very constructive thread on building a turbo set-up based on what we know and how we are going to get there! This thread is not going to be for flaming the idea, and all advice/help is welcome!
So to start, there is no piggy-back system that will work properly with the xD computer. But we do know that, with the help with uhhhh...that guy from Puerto Rico, that the stock engine/ECU can safely handle 8 lbs of boost with no real problem.
I know he also said tC injectors will fit, but does this mean that any injectors made aftermarket for the tC will also fit? And what about a fuel pump? What good is bigger injectors if you'll overload the fuel pump? Also, will a tC fuel rail work with the xD? I haven't looked, so I have no clue. I doubt it will, but if you can piece together a better fuel delivery system them maybe we can have a better built turbo set up.
Now we come to turbo placement... This is also going to be the subject of debate because there are only a few ways to do this, and all of them work around VERY tight places!! I know that when TurboToyotas was working on the turbo kit for YeloSub and someone else before him, the turbo was placed where the battery sits. So if that route is taken, where do we relocate the battery? Is a thin racing battery an option to mount it under the passenger seat? Or was there somewhere else in the engine compartment that is large enough for the stock battery?
The only other two places for the turbo are at the end of the manifold and at the rear of the xD. I personally think that a remote mount turbo might work pretty well for the xD. Yes, there may be a little bit of lag, but it is something that will have to be dealt with. And for either place (at the bottom of the manifold or end of the exhaust) you'll have to use an oil pump to get oil thru the turbo. The pressure inside the oil line should be enough from the stock oil pump to get oil TO the turbo, but not enough to get it back to the engine. Depending on where the turbo is placed it could add a quart or more to the amount of oil you'll need to safely run the engine.
Another thing I thought about is placing an oil and transmission cooler. Would that be feasible?
Hopefully we can get something seriously going on our own guys! And we can use this thread for information and any questions or advice.
Lets get to it!!
breadbooze
08-06-2009, 07:02 PM
I would go with a dedicated EMS route, keeping the original ECU to control things the EMS doesn't (or has no outputs for).
For the fuel system, the EMS should be able to drive any injectors, though may need a resistor pack for the low impedance ones. I haven't looked but remember the xD using top feeds. For fuel delivery, gut the entire stock fuel system, replace the in-tank pump with a pickup and run an external pump/filters. Fuel return would be incorporated into the pickup.
Relocating the battery is easy. Stick it in the trunk with a remote battery box and run 0/2ga wires with an electrical cutoff to the front.
You do not need an oil pump to feed the turbo. Either tap the exising oil pump outlet on the block or use an oil filter relocator and feed one of the ports to the turbo with a flow restrictor. It's not like we're running a T88 here. Oil return is to the oil pan and would have to be gravity fed.
I've never run an oil cooler in any of my turbo cars. Tranny cooler is also a waste of resources.
Air to air intercooler is too much a space hog, you can source a A2W intercooler from a celica GT4 and use that behind the existing radiator.
The simple way of doing this all is to import a turbo 1NZ-FE, bits and pieces from the Vitz for mounting, and go at it, controlled by an EMS.
Its actually a Lotus Elise engine... THats the only 1.8L Toyota engine that had VVTL-i... Celica GTS was just VVT-i.
Thanks for the post Untouchable! That actually gives me a lot of ideas!
UnTouChbLe_D
08-09-2009, 02:33 AM
hmmm that engine is the 2zz available on the celica gts, corolla xrs, matrix xrs and lotus elise all of them with 6 speed tranny, the celicas, corollas and matriz with vvti are the 1zz
DeathMachine
08-09-2009, 03:44 AM
Yeah but wasn't the VVTL-i a special engine set-up that Toyota made specifically for the Lotus?
I know that the 2ZZ-FE was a higher output engine, made for the Celica GT-S and the xRS models, but I thought they didn't have variable lift?
Eh, either way, its still a super nice set-up. Hows your xD been running since you blew the engine?
Nateson
08-09-2009, 01:37 PM
The 2zz-ge has the variable lift, and is in the gts, xrs, and ect. Check it on wiki.
Do you own two white Scion XDs, or did you swap out the turbo charged 2zr-fe for the 2zz-ge(or switch that)?
Will the light weight pistons hold up to 8 lbs of boost?
What problems did you run into?
xD_kidd91
08-09-2009, 04:19 PM
wait. how hard was the vvtl-i swap?
UnTouChbLe_D
08-09-2009, 10:36 PM
The light weight pistons will hold 8 psi of boost with the proper tunning, my car wasn't tunned, because i didn't had the ecu diagrams to install the apex-neo if i had it the story was different, it's the same car, i swapped the engine 'cause i was tired of the engine it had lack of parts even the stock ones where difficult to find, i ordered the pistons on january and arrived on may, not even on the US had them stock so had to shipped directly from japan.
the swap was not easy believe it
pickledchang
08-10-2009, 06:02 AM
The light weight pistons will hold 8 psi of boost with the proper tunning, my car wasn't tunned, because i didn't had the ecu diagrams to install the apex-neo if i had it the story was different, it's the same car, i swapped the engine 'cause i was tired of the engine it had lack of parts even the stock ones where difficult to find, i ordered the pistons on january and arrived on may, not even on the US had them stock so had to shipped directly from japan.
the swap was not easy believe it
if youve got the time, do you think you could start another thread with some basic info on the swap?
CASTREX
08-10-2009, 09:15 PM
I already have about 80% of my turbo kit complete and hopefully will start the installation in a couple of weeks.
A lot of discussion doesn't lead to anything! If anyone wants to go turbo the info is out there is just a matter doing it.
The right turbo, 2AZ injectors, fuel and timing management and the 2ZR-FE should output close to 200whp @ 8psi. No need to upgrade internals or the fuel system... as long as you are able to tune it properly this engine should be MORE than able to take 8psi.
The OP said that there were no Piggy backs compatible with this car...
I wonder who has even tried it to be able to say that...
The other Scions have been running turbo'ed for years why shouldn't be able to do the same?
The 1NZ has held 8psi of boost in multiple aplications.
In regards to engine management the best show is the AEM FIC. Is just a matter of giving it to a capable tuner.
I will try the FIC and see how it goes...
The turbo manifold can be pieced for around $300. The only part that would have to be custom made is the downpipe. All the rest is pretty easy to come by.
I'm shotting for an under $2500 total cost including the tuning.
YELOSUB
08-10-2009, 10:35 PM
I already have about 80% of my turbo kit complete and hopefully will start the installation in a couple of weeks.
A lot of discussion doesn't lead to anything! If anyone wants to go turbo the info is out there is just a matter doing it.
The right turbo, 2AZ injectors, fuel and timing management and the 2ZR-FE should output close to 200whp @ 8psi. No need to upgrade internals or the fuel system... as long as you are able to tune it properly this engine should be MORE than able to take 8psi.
The OP said that there were no Piggy backs compatible with this car...
I wonder who has even tried it to be able to say that...
The other Scions have been running turbo'ed for years why shouldn't be able to do the same?
The 1NZ has held 8psi of boost in multiple aplications.
In regards to engine management the best show is the AEM FIC. Is just a matter of giving it to a capable tuner.
I will try the FIC and see how it goes...
The turbo manifold can be pieced for around $300. The only part that would have to be custom made is the downpipe. All the rest is pretty easy to come by.
I'm shotting for an under $2500 total cost including the tuning.
CASTREX will get this done...I'm watching and waiting for the engine management issue, I feel this is the biggest hurdle...If the f/ic is tuned successfully (which it will eventually), then the xD will prove to be one hell of a little rocket...
UnTouChbLe_D
08-11-2009, 02:13 AM
yes indeed!
DeathMachine
08-11-2009, 02:53 AM
So the 2AZ injectors will for sure fit? What about upping the injectors to a set of RC's? And has anyone taken a look at the fuel pump to see what could be done there? I know that breadbooze suggested gutting the whole thing...
YELOSUB
08-11-2009, 03:09 AM
Yes the stock tC injectors, 370cc, will fit...That's what Todd was going to use on mine for my turbo application...I got mine for sale in the classifieds if anyone needs them...I paid $100 from Todd but have them listed for $75 shipped...
CASTREX
08-11-2009, 05:27 PM
So the 2AZ injectors will for sure fit? What about upping the injectors to a set of RC's? And has anyone taken a look at the fuel pump to see what could be done there? I know that breadbooze suggested gutting the whole thing...
Yes, that's what Guillos used ... plus the 5th injector.
The 2AZ injectors should be good for around 200whp according to the TC guys.
Regarding the RC injectors someone would have to do a test fit... on the Yaris I know the RC's didn't work. There was a fitment issue with the OE fuel rail.
The problem is that going with RC injectors means that you are going much bigger than 370cc and that only means problems unless your engine management is really capable of handling them.
I say that 370cc are good for a start!
The fuel pump should be more than able to flow that much fuel (isn't that much!). The OE pump is located inside the tank but it can be easily replaced by a Walbro when we reach the limit of the OE pump. Something that won't happen at 8 or 10psi. I've see it repalced on a Yaris and is straight forward.
Yes the stock tC injectors, 370cc, will fit...That's what Todd was going to use on mine for my turbo application...I got mine for sale in the classifieds if anyone needs them...I paid $100 from Todd but have them listed for $75 shipped...
Good price! Some get them!
That's what I paid for mine...
UnTouChbLe_D
08-12-2009, 01:28 AM
before my engine blew up i was trying to find the tC injectors the s/c , the ones that the trd kit has, give it a thought.
JDMJim
08-12-2009, 09:05 PM
alot of basic knowledge from the Honda scene can help the figures as my friend has a turbo D16. Built head and 8psi put him in the 190 category. NOW, honestly, how more power does one need? that with the weight of the car will get it moving really quick. I mean anymore power and you'll be doing nothing but spinning the tires ala Eclipse GS-t style. Shoot, I'd build it to hold more power and de-tune it to 6psi til a engine management system comes out. if ever should one come out. another factor is to get the car to handle well. that is the one thing I don;t like about the car is it's poor handling capability. again, power is nothing of the car can't move it around easily. the car can barely move itself around with it's stock HP. it's an understeering nightmare for me.
xD_kidd91
08-13-2009, 04:22 AM
with a good 160-200 hp. clutch. tires. swaybar and coilovers and i'll be satisfied lol
Zefoxe
08-13-2009, 05:16 AM
80%? Wow can't wait. I will probably be replicating ur project as a xmas gift to myself if it works out :icon_juggle:
Yes the stock tC injectors, 370cc, will fit...That's what Todd was going to use on mine for my turbo application...I got mine for sale in the classifieds if anyone needs them...I paid $100 from Todd but have them listed for $75 shipped...
Let me know if you still have em by Sept, I"ll be able to take em off ur hands by then
CASTREX
08-13-2009, 11:35 PM
I received the engine flange for the manifold from JSG today!! and the Bosch blow off...!
I got the Bosch valve brand new for $25 on ebay. German made and OE equipment of Turbo Audis/VW/Volvos. Good for up to 10psi of boost.:icon_biggrin:
Now I'm on the look up for a caplable exhaust shop to weld together the manifold and make the downpipe. :eek:
DeathMachine
08-13-2009, 11:40 PM
See I'm looking to do a remote set-up for now, just to get it going and see how it will work out. I just want to throw about 6lbs on it to see how the auto tranny will like it before I do something too much more.
I was looking at either a Garrett T2, or a Mitsu 13G or 14G (whichever I can find first)...
JDMJim
08-14-2009, 02:47 AM
shoot, I'm more interested in the 2ZZ now than the turbo. NA FTW.
CASTREX
08-14-2009, 07:15 AM
^^nah...
I think the 2ZZ would be fun in a sub 2000lbs car (MR-S, Elise)
For every day driving and ultimate fun... force induction all the way!
CASTREX
08-14-2009, 07:23 AM
A few parts...
The manifold is ready to cut and weld now. I'm taking it to a welder next week. The engine flange from JGS is first class!
Also received the by pass valve (bosch blow off) today.
Tial 38mm 0.5bar pring and garrett GT2554R also in the picture.
2zz sounds like a good option. more horsepower and higher top end. but it looks too complicated and the engine itself would cost more then a turbo kit. and it be kinda of a waste of my engine since its almost a yr and hasnt even hit 7k miles on it lol . Hopefully if this project is a success. castrex can make me one too lol jk but knowing what needs to be done such as what parts we need will due too :icon_smile: lol
CASTREX
08-14-2009, 08:30 PM
The problem with the 2ZZ is that although it makes a good peak power number, it doesn't have much down low torque and the power band is really narrow and not very usable for every day driving. The 2ZZ makes its power above 7,000rpm. Below that there is not much going on...
That makes for a very sporty engine on a light car... (MR-S, Elise) but a sluggish engine on a heavier car... (Celica, Corolla, xD)
On the other hand the 2ZZ loves boost... and there is a ton of aftermarket suport for it.
But agree... it will be a very complicated and expensive swap. At least to perform in the US. In Puerto Rico things are a little different. :rolling:
DeathMachine
08-14-2009, 11:42 PM
Hmmm... This question popped into my head today...
Will our MAF sensor be better suited for draw-thru reading or blow-thru reading?
AND! Castrex, is that a T3 or T3/T4 turbo you've got there?
UnTouChbLe_D
08-15-2009, 05:04 AM
15.0 1/4 mile intake, exhaust, 96 mph no grip even with the tires at 12 psi, now will have better grip and more mods LOL stay tunned, believe me i am better off NA, when turbo i had to monitor too much the car and don't race with anybody, now it's different and the thing is with turbo you really will never finish, why? there's always new stuff for the parts and the consumer always wants more, in my 2zz i am very much performance parts wiser, not everything is worth buying and taking it slow for now.
Nateson
08-15-2009, 07:23 AM
^^when you say you had grip problems was it just spinning or wheel hop?
CASTREX
08-16-2009, 12:06 AM
Hmmm... This question popped into my head today...
Will our MAF sensor be better suited for draw-thru reading or blow-thru reading?
AND! Castrex, is that a T3 or T3/T4 turbo you've got there?
The MAF is a hotwire style... similar to many others in modern cars. As I said before... for low boost this should not be a concern...
For high boost, it probably would. Nothing beats a MAP set up.
For high boost there are SO many things that would have to be upgraded... fuel system would have to be converted to a regula return system just to mention one.
The MAF ideally has to go Pre- turbo... a post turbo placement would make tuning harder...
The turbo is a GT2554R. That's garret's smalles ball bearing turbo. very compact and good for up to 250hp. very quick spooling turbo... and by quick I mean supercharger quick.
I will however upgrade to a GT28RS if the project is succesfull... pretty much as fast as the gt25 but with a higher top end (should produce a little more power on this engine)
CASTREX
08-16-2009, 12:09 AM
^^when you say you had grip problems was it just spinning or wheel hop?
The TRD dog bone should help a great deal with wheel hop... if anyone is interested I can tell you were to get it in the US.
I haven't installed mine but that is the reason I bought it... even with the stock engine I've experienced wheel hop on heavy launches.
An L.S.D will come also after the turbo...
CASTREX
08-16-2009, 12:15 AM
15.0 1/4 mile intake, exhaust, 96 mph no grip even with the tires at 12 psi, now will have better grip and more mods LOL stay tunned, believe me i am better off NA, when turbo i had to monitor too much the car and don't race with anybody, now it's different and the thing is with turbo you really will never finish, why? there's always new stuff for the parts and the consumer always wants more, in my 2zz i am very much performance parts wiser, not everything is worth buying and taking it slow for now.
That's a good time!! Can you also post your turbo times so we can compare?
Also post what mods do you have now on the 2ZZ...
A 75hp nitrous shot would be REALLy fun on your new engine...! Probably low 14's time or better.
JDMJim
08-16-2009, 02:37 AM
I feel the 2ZZ may be a bit peppier than one thinks. AND, there is a plethora of add-ons for that engine. unlike the xD's engine.
UnTouChbLe_D
08-16-2009, 05:14 AM
the turbo xD was 14.2 1/4 mile will 17 rims yokohama advan tires 10 psi boost not tunned, 108 mph a street beast, i know the NOS kit is veerrry easy but want to really hit 200 hp at least at the wheels NA, my mec. has a yaris 2zz, and my friends have also 2 xA 2zz, a corolla CE 2007 turned into 2zz standard, and soon a yaris 2 doors 2zz, the yaris did with 60 nos 12.5 1/4 mile 110 mph now he is currently on another proyect, we know the engine will hold NOS, but too many people here on the island talk ____ about the engine and we want to hit the mark of a 2zz with 200 hp, i say it can be done and we will after that we think on going turbo because my car has a lot of space for a turbo and the xA's will be all motor just to have the team running on different categories, i will continue to update you all.
like always anything on the 2zr engine gone turbo feel free to ask!
pickledchang
08-18-2009, 02:12 AM
14.2 is pretty nice! i think a good tuning would be able to crack 14 seconds, and have a surviving engine. even just to have it running at a smooth 6psi with a quick spooling turbo would be wonderful.
have any of you thought about installing the turbo a little lower than the exhaust manifold, since its so cramped? i havent looked under there in a while, but i think its a little roomier if you go about a foot after the manifold. i guess running the charge piping could be a little bit of an issue for down there?
xD_kidd91
08-22-2009, 03:26 PM
a 14 sec. is extremly nice on the xd. Hopefully something comes up by spring. bump for updates =]
WellesleyScion
08-24-2009, 04:04 PM
14.2 is pretty nice! i think a good tuning would be able to crack 14 seconds, and have a surviving engine. even just to have it running at a smooth 6psi with a quick spooling turbo would be wonderful.
have any of you thought about installing the turbo a little lower than the exhaust manifold, since its so cramped? i havent looked under there in a while, but i think its a little roomier if you go about a foot after the manifold. i guess running the charge piping could be a little bit of an issue for down there?
I have been considering this for a while now... it could make things much easier to work with...
CASTREX
08-25-2009, 05:57 PM
There is enough space behind the motor to run a small (GT25/GT28) turbo using a log style manifold with a lower mounted turbo.
Running the turbo a little behind is what ZPI did back in the day with the Yaris.
Cons... you need to loose/ relocate the OE cat converter and you will also have some problems with the oil return...
Pros, you could use the OE exhaust manifold...
WellesleyScion
08-25-2009, 06:19 PM
do you know what issues there will be with the oil return?
pickledchang
08-25-2009, 07:08 PM
im guessing because the turbo is lower and more level with the oil pan, it wouldnt drain as quickly as it would if it were higher... therefore, it might be necessary to install a secondary oil pump to feed the turbo, in which case you will want to be installing an oil cooler as well.
DeathMachine
08-26-2009, 02:16 AM
Chang is right... You effectively have the same oil drain effect as you do with a remote mount turbo. IMHO I think it would be better, if you were going to mount it so low, to just do a remote mount. Keeping the turbo that close to the engine it would still need an intercooler, and as mentioned before probably an oil cooler. Leaving the turbo at the end of the exhaust would eliminate the need for both. And if you use a turbo with a .43 to .50 trim on the turbine wheel you wouldn't have much boost lag if any.
Yang
08-26-2009, 05:10 AM
STS turbo setup maybe
DeathMachine
08-26-2009, 01:48 PM
I couldn't get a response out of STS the five times that I've e-mailed them. Plus you can build your own system for less than $1000 versus spending $3000 on a STS kit. Like I said on the first page of the thread though, thats the route I'm going. I'm working on putting together a kit to have it done by the end of the year.
xD_kidd91
08-26-2009, 03:56 PM
maybe deathmachine gots something there. How bad would it be to get a stage 0 going?
DeathMachine
08-27-2009, 12:21 AM
Its not too hard to get something going, it just takes money. I'm using cheap parts though, just for the sake of doing it to see how it would work out, and will move up from there. I'm even looking for a used or eBay turbo. Yeah I know they aren't great but with it being at the back of the car I don't think that even catastrophic failure would kill the engine, it'd be hard to fling a piece of metal all the way up the intake piping and then UP into into the engine.
I'm even thinking about hitting up a junkyard soon and trying to get an old Saab or DSM turbo that isn't frozen.
M2-Motoring
08-27-2009, 09:49 AM
im actually working with the shop that did my 3sgte swap on my xd to develop a turbo kit for the xD's for you guys =)
xD_kidd91
08-27-2009, 03:29 PM
im actually working with the shop that did my 3sgte swap on my xd to develop a turbo kit for the xD's for you guys =)
sounds good. are you guys currently on the process of making one? any more info would be appreciated lol
WellesleyScion
08-27-2009, 04:30 PM
Mike, any word on it yet?
CASTREX
08-27-2009, 06:35 PM
Yes the problem with a turbo mounted too low is oil return as this is usually done by gravity.
I don't have anything against a remote turbo set up but personally I don't think thats needed on the xD. You guys have enough space back there to cramp a small (GT25/GT28) turbo back there using a simple log style manifold.
BTW my manifold should be ready today! I'll post some pics as soon as I have it.
Keep it simple! Go for what is proven to work.
If you use a very small turbo to try to keep the lag low on a remote set up you will sacrifice flow at the top end... Iknow remote set ups can be made to work alright but is a fact that the performance gains are not as good as a regular turbo set up.
Just my .2
**Reminder for my self**
I should start my own turbo thread instead of keeping the threadjack :rofl:
WellesleyScion
08-27-2009, 08:13 PM
^^^Yes pictures please
M2-Motoring
08-28-2009, 01:36 AM
havent begun working on it but we are in the planning process of course. we've been swamped with getting cars ready for sema =) I will definitely let you guys know what my friends shop decides to do
DeathMachine
08-28-2009, 03:18 AM
Hmmm... Was doing some reading around online and found that some guys that have home-made remote turbo systems are using Holley "red" electric fuel pumps as an oil scavenge pump because of the all metal guts and they are working really good. I think the part number is a 12-801 pump, only 97 gph flow rate.
Just something for anyone else looking to go the same way I am.
xD_kidd91
08-28-2009, 03:38 AM
yea the other thing that gets to me with remote is winter season.
DeathMachine
09-04-2009, 01:36 PM
Alright guys, I just got a PM from Rob at Descendant. It seems they have a new PNP injector and fuel rail kit for the tC/xB2.
As has been stated MANY times before, the tC injectors will plug right in place with the xD injectors, right? And without a wiring harness? If so, I'm going to give Rob a call and try to set something up to get the rail and injectors for the xD.
Any input guys?
DeathMachine
09-04-2009, 01:38 PM
yea the other thing that gets to me with remote is winter season.
Thats why I dont have a problem with the idea of running one here in Florida...
We only have 2 seasons, Summer and January.
CASTREX
09-04-2009, 05:50 PM
Alright guys, I just got a PM from Rob at Descendant. It seems they have a new PNP injector and fuel rail kit for the tC/xB2.
As has been stated MANY times before, the tC injectors will plug right in place with the xD injectors, right? And without a wiring harness? If so, I'm going to give Rob a call and try to set something up to get the rail and injectors for the xD.
Any input guys?
Not really input but... I just don't see the need for an upgraded rail unless we are planning to run high boost... and that won't happen any time soon as there are no internals available for this engine...
Perhaps this money could be better spent on some other necesary turbo supporting mods, such as a wide band, gauges, etc...
DeathMachine
09-04-2009, 06:57 PM
That may be, but I think that in order for us to start seeing more and more parts available to the xD we should take what we can get. Who knows? If this does work, this might open up a line with us and Descendant.
Just like with pTuning, a kit from them can evolve into something more. The only thing this community really lacks right now is people with the money to commit.
CASTREX
09-05-2009, 02:31 AM
If the xD owners are anything like the Yaris owners, finding 10 people to up front money will be a really long shot. But that doesn't mean that the interest or the money aren't there...
Is just that these guys want to see pictures, videos and numbers and hear it from actual owners before getting into it.
It was the same story with the Blitz Super charger for the Yaris... it only produces like 25whp and it's like $3400 out of the box. Initially it took like 6 months to the main distributor to sold 2 kits... but after the people saw the actual thing working, like 15 other guys jumped into it...
WellesleyScion
09-08-2009, 01:52 PM
^^^ Which I am sure will happen with us...
microbg
09-25-2009, 12:15 AM
i did it
turbo'd xd, 16psi. full tune. running 12's
Pictures and videos below
na, just kidding. i'm barley boosting. im hoping you guys can help me out with some problems im having. im boosting, but only about 1 pound. is my turbo to low? when i drive its fine, way faster then befor which is pretty surprising for a pound of boost. but when i geet on it and go! it blows white smoke... whats cuasing that?
besides that its working great, sounds great, and i just orderd tc injecters from yelowsub.
microbg
09-25-2009, 12:20 AM
oh, and i did relocate my battery, ill try to get more pictures. i put it on the floor board in the back between the two seats. so its now a 4 seater. but its got a 4 inch drop so thats fine.. any way its in a black carpeted box and i put a volt gauge on top of it for looks.
xD_kidd91
09-25-2009, 02:30 AM
I was like no way once you said 16psi lol
bad oil can cause smoke.
nd you might be laggin too
my 2cents
pickledchang
09-25-2009, 10:13 AM
white smoke? does it smell like antifreeze at all? oil is white with a blue-ish hue...
WellesleyScion
09-25-2009, 04:12 PM
Ok, first thing is that you will blow your motor/turbo if you keep doing runs like that with smoke... without seeing the set up myself I would guess, the boost gauge is not connected correctly or is bad, and you are boosting higher than one psi... as to the smoke, like pickledchang said, does it smell like antifreeze?
microbg
09-25-2009, 07:26 PM
Smells rich actually. not like antifreeze. and its slightly blue. its oil.. but i have no oil leaks? oil comes out the exhaust tho.
WellesleyScion
09-25-2009, 07:56 PM
Turbo is most likely bad...
microbg
09-25-2009, 10:42 PM
well if that is the case.. what would be wrong with it? could it be something as simple as a busted seal?
pickledchang
09-26-2009, 07:57 AM
possibly... i believe there are rebuild kits you can get, depending on the turbo. you should pull the turbo off and see if there is any burnt oil residue on the inside of the exhaust manifold. if not, then it is definitely leaking from the turbo. few questions about your setup:
1. how do you have your oil system setup for the turbo? (feed/supply lines, etc)
2. are you running any coolant through the turbo?
3. intercooler?
microbg
09-27-2009, 03:14 AM
i have the oil coming from the oil sending unit outlet to the turbo.
and i tapped a hole in the side of the engine just like the other xd did for the return.
no coolant just the oil.
yes, intercooler is ran in my setup
CASTREX
09-27-2009, 04:33 AM
You are blowing oil thru the turbo. Check that boost gauge... if the car is quicker than before you might be boosting more than waht you think and could be dangerous.
Is that a ball bearing turbo? Do you have an oil restrictor on the oil inlet?
What are you planning to use for engine management?
Big props for your home made set up!!!
microbg
09-28-2009, 12:36 AM
no oil restrictor. yes ball bearing. if i put the oil restrictor on should that fix it? or may i have already blown the seal for the turbo?
CASTREX
09-29-2009, 11:36 PM
Hard to tell.
Garret "recomends" the use of an oil restrictor on their ball bearing turbos. However I've heard people saying this is not always needed specially with the smallest BB turbos...
I plan to use a restrictor on my GT25R BB turbo just in case....
misformartin
09-30-2009, 01:29 AM
yah im guessing your boost more than 1 pound 1 pound is hardly going to be noticable... if is alot quicker than before... also what engine management system are you usuing>?
misformartin
09-30-2009, 01:32 AM
i really hope you are boosting 1 pound and not 1 bar..... that would be reallly bad with no engine management
microbg
09-30-2009, 02:54 AM
whats a bar...
and i just ordered the oil restrictor. not sure if it will help now... if not ill break down the turbo and replace the seals, the kits are pretty cheap. its normal to break by the research i have found. but they should last 40,000 miles. not 4 weeks.
I know he got the injectors that I sold him...Hey Michael, any updates for us?
microbg
10-09-2009, 06:43 PM
Well. the smoke stopped 0.o
TC injectors do the trick tho, i had an fmu but if i got on the gas. the car would cut out at 4.000 rpm every time. but with the new injectors it runs all the way to the red!
its fast, has a boost leak fixed that. so its getting air now! (there was a hole burned into one of my Couplers. so i made a pipe from the turbo to the engine bay. the rubber couplers do not get along with the heat that close to the manifold.
Any way. i'm still not boosting. its faster for sure. but no boost. even tried my friends boost gauge. its running -2 when stepping on it but runs -11 when bypassing the turbo.
vacuum line leak perhaps? its been raining so i cant go play with it =/
my car does idle up and down when stopped. so i think its a vacuum line problem.
what do you guys think?
CASTREX
10-09-2009, 09:39 PM
Well. the smoke stopped 0.o
TC injectors do the trick tho, i had an fmu but if i got on the gas. the car would cut out at 4.000 rpm every time. but with the new injectors it runs all the way to the red!
its fast, has a boost leak fixed that. so its getting air now! (there was a hole burned into one of my Couplers. so i made a pipe from the turbo to the engine bay. the rubber couplers do not get along with the heat that close to the manifold.
Any way. i'm still not boosting. its faster for sure. but no boost. even tried my friends boost gauge. its running -2 when stepping on it but runs -11 when bypassing the turbo.
vacuum line leak perhaps? its been raining so i cant go play with it =/
my car does idle up and down when stopped. so i think its a vacuum line problem.
what do you guys think?
How did you installed an FMU on this car???
Don't you need a fuel system with a return in order for the FMU to operate?
This car has a returnless fuel system. :confused:
How did you fixed the smoke problem? Did you installed the oil restrictor or the smoke went away by it own?
microbg
10-10-2009, 03:13 PM
well what i believe happened with the smoke is, my turbo had to be mounted a bit low. and my oil was at the max fill point. smoke all the time. well the oil burned out and now shows a little below the half mark on the dip stick, still enough oil to be safe, but if i add any more. smoke... (tested that two days ago) so ill just fill it above the minim limit for now on, down fall. i'm scared of breaking the car so i'm checking my oil almost daily now.. but it seems to be fine!
and well fmu.
An fmu has an in, and an out. and a vacume hook up. cut the fuel line (fire wall between the engine and battery) gas from tank goes to the inlet. line to the engine goes to the out, nothing to it!
but that line is hell to play with. its plastic under the rubber coating.
new problem.
no boost, why? waste gate bolt fell out. so it was only half way on. car.. for the first time.. is boosting great! no smoke, no back fire in the exhaust. just one problem.
when i got on it for the first time today, car wont pass 1 pound of boost. the ECU is shutting off the engine when it senses the boost. what do i need to do? get a bigger MAF sensor?
i have a working FMU. i have bigger spark plugs. and i have it running right. my turbo fanatic friend says its the MAF (mas airflow sensor) so im just looking for a second set of advice.
and if i swap it out, what cars MAF sensor should i get? scion tc?
DeathMachine
10-15-2009, 12:56 AM
new problem.
no boost, why? waste gate bolt fell out. so it was only half way on. car.. for the first time.. is boosting great! no smoke, no back fire in the exhaust. just one problem.
when i got on it for the first time today, car wont pass 1 pound of boost. the ECU is shutting off the engine when it senses the boost. what do i need to do? get a bigger MAF sensor?
i have a working FMU. i have bigger spark plugs. and i have it running right. my turbo fanatic friend says its the MAF (mas airflow sensor) so im just looking for a second set of advice.
and if i swap it out, what cars MAF sensor should i get? scion tc?
Hmm... Not sure how the other guy that turbo'd his xD did his, but maybe you should just move the MAF, make it a draw-thru instead of a blow-thru...
microbg
10-15-2009, 05:53 AM
that's how it is currently set up. i have the MAF behind the air filter. so its befor the turbo.
microbg
10-18-2009, 05:55 AM
took it to a shop in houston, they said the ECU is safe to 10 pounds! i have a wide band Air/Fuel gauge. boost gauge. and oil pressure gauge. they said if i pass 10 then get a tune. the ecu will feed the correct amount of fuel/air bla bla. they said my engine can only handle 8 so run 6 and ill be fine (tuneless) if i upgrade the heads, ill be a safe 12 but dont pass that with out a tune. so bassically unless im a dumbass and turn my boost up ill be fine. if i get a tune they said it would cost 1.100$ and the only diffrence from the way it is now.. is they could govern it down to 7 psi so i dont blow it. so pay 1.100$ and limit myself. or use common sense and stay with a low boost for now?
to be honest im happy with my 6 pounds! ill change some stuff around later
and well what was my problem?
well its not a honda. its a scion. No FMU... so now i need to sell mine....
they are boost ready ish i guess?
so im running 6 pounds. and ran a 10 Flat at the track tonight 1/4th mile :)
microbg
10-19-2009, 12:07 AM
Sorry guys... 1/8 mile.. not 1/4.
All true tho, ill try and get some videos, im running again next weekend. tracks only open sat night in my town
and im in the optimal when boost kicks in, only running 6 pounds. i like safe
and well. yes! i took out the fmu and that was it, no problems, 6 pounds, runs great! i love it!
the guys i talked to in Houston were saying a tune is pointless for my car because,
1. you get a tune so you can run higher boost! (but our engine only takes 8 stock i guess)
2. they can govern in so it wont blow, but they said use common sense. stay at a low boost, and watch my wide band gauge. but if i really wanted to they could tune it. they could. but the recommended i change the tiny internals on the engine and dual spring the valves and simple things like that. but that's more $.
and i'm really happy with my 6 pounds and running 10's on a 1/8 mile (for now...)
my lowest was the 10 but i was in the 10 range all night. did 12's at first. figuring out the best shift points
all in all tho, MAF befor the turbo, running 6 pounds, car sounds like a beast, does surprisingly good burnouts, and its all running great, check engine light, due to my exhuast (no cat)
one con. the xd has a sad clutch (from start) so i have to take off slow to around 10 mph, Then floor it and go!
JDMJim
10-19-2009, 01:12 AM
oh yea, all that work for the surprisingly awesome burnout.....
microbg
11-08-2009, 11:50 PM
so the problems are resolved. but now i want to change some stuff out. i cant find any parts for our engine.. do they make any after market parts fir our engine?
i want at least a stronger head.. i want more boost!
and stronger pistons as well.
i know our head cant handle 8.
CASTREX
11-09-2009, 10:49 PM
so the problems are resolved. but now i want to change some stuff out. i cant find any parts for our engine.. do they make any after market parts fir our engine?
i want at least a stronger head.. i want more boost!
and stronger pistons as well.
i know our head cant handle 8.
No one makes internals for our engine.... sadly.
If you want to crank up the boost you will need forged con rods and a lower comp forged pistons. Those would be custom parts. CP/Crower can get them done... but it would be expensive and you will have to send them the OE parts to them or the detailed measurements.
The head is fine... lower comp pistons and forged rods and you can boost 15psi.
You will need to upgrade the fuel system (fuel pump and injectors) and get a tune to do that....