Does the pedestal spolier have any practical applications? Usually if you are going fast in a F1 or a race car on the track, the spoiler pushes the rear of he car down to maintain stability (bernoulli's principle). But on the track, the spoiler goes through precise mathematical formulas to get the maximum stability gain. I was wondering if the pedestal spoiler that just came out for the TC has any practical purpose other than show(which the lip spoiler definitely is). Just wondering. It does look nice. :)

moved....

i would say its just for show

mostly for show...
sometimes they help reduce drag...they should not be used for down force on our FWD cars....(duh....)

show here...basically all spoilers on street cars are all for show...cause you ain't gona go that fast on the road anyway

on this car they are all for show, although i think they look like crap

John

actually, you are making the common mistake of equating spoilers with wings.
Since they are both attached to the same place people often associate the two.
They serve the same purpose (vehicle stability at high speeds), however the way they accomplish it is slightly different.

Wings are actually the thing you are talking about on race cars. Their primary purpose is to create downforce (they are basically upside down airplane wings). This (normal) force increases the friction resistance between tire and road, hence better grip and therefore better stability.

Spoilers work differently. No matter how aerodynamic a car is, it is still displacing a large amount of air. Barring shaping simliar to a rocket, this air invariably rushes back into the vaccuum left behind a car (the "drafting" zone). And if you imagine the back end of a car to be a block of wood, and took a block of wood and moved it really really fast through water.. you'd noticed that water rushes behind the block of wood in a swirl like pattern.. that pattern is very similiar to the way air rushes back into around a car. At high speeds this swirling air vortex can create "some" lift, thereby destablizing the vehicle. A spoiler is added in this situation to "spoil" the air or to "spoil" that pattern so that lift effect does not occur.

So why are they considered cosmetic? Well for one thing, that swirling vortex is only really a problem at extremely high speeds. That's not to say the spoiler does nothing at low speeds, but the difference with or without a spoiler at such speeds will most likely be negligible. Another this is that some spoilers are made precisely for cosmetic purposes and really don't serve the purpose they were orginally meant. to.

^^^ either one wont make a difference on this car, they are purely for looks. The tC maxes out at 130 which only a few people will ever accomplish anyways. If you want the look go for it, just dont be expecting any performance gains.

John

Chimmy sounds wise...

i think it looks wierd without something back there myself... yeah, i'd say its cosmetic.

the spoiler does have a decent looking angle to it, so it may add just the slightest bit of downforce at high speed .. i do agree that its mostly for show .. i think its a nice addition .. it adds to the profile of the car ... i personally think the TC needed a little improvement on the rear end.. cuz it wasnt sharp enough looking .. needed somethin to stand out ..

^^^ either one wont make a difference on this car, they are purely for looks. The tC maxes out at 130 which only a few people will ever accomplish anyways. If you want the look go for it, just dont be expecting any performance gains.

John

Actually, 127mph it the governed max :lalala:

PS - many spoilers... think APR, are effective on the tC at speeds over 80mph. Your results will vary. Also, many of you seem to think in straight lines, stop it.

Ferraris are real fast cars... how many do we see using spoilers? Probably not much. For most of them the down force is created by the body and the underbody.

After market spoilers are functional (if well designed) at speeds that can be found in race tracks, but that are illegal or over the limit in most states.

I particularly don't like anything beyond the lip spoiler, that by the way is not functional.

Ferrari also has more weight over the rears... with that monster motor sitting there.
If you look at the underside of a ferrari you will also see airflow management that works with the aerodynamics of the car.

So tossing a Ferrari into this conversation is silly.

I particularly don't like anything beyond the lip spoiler, that by the way is not functional.

If lip spoilers are not functional then why does the m3 CSl have one on it. I am pretty sure that it is functional at the high speeds that it can achieve.

Quote Chimmy: "This (normal) force increases the friction resistance between tire and road, hence better grip and therefore better stability. "

wouldnt it decrease the friction resistance? If you increase friction resistance you are not allowing friction to take place, thereby losing traction.

I dont know...just doesnt make sense. the rest of it does tho! good post

Does the pedestal spolier have any practical applications?

Trunk Handle.

Does the pedestal spolier have any practical applications?

Trunk Handle.

WRONG!!

U never use a spoiler for a trunk handle... and if u didn't kno tha then u should be ashamed...

All spoilers and wings are usually either made of fiber glass or carbon fiber (rare).

Eith of these can easily be torqued and bent in to weird abnormal shapes if they are pressed on from atop... never press on the unsupported sections of your spoiler or anywhere on it anyways...

if your gonna close your trunk for the tC use the handles on the inside/back side of your hatch.

i dun think anyone wants a bent/cracked/torqued/fugly spoiler.....

Ferrari also has more weight over the rears... with that monster motor sitting there.
If you look at the underside of a ferrari you will also see airflow management that works with the aerodynamics of the car.

So tossing a Ferrari into this conversation is silly.

No, is not silly. Probably you are not aware of it, but there are Ferraris with front mounted engines that also don't need any spoiler because they were designed with "Zero Lift Aerodynamics". You will see them by following the next two links.
http://photobucket.com/albums/v217/niguels/?action=view&current=575MMaranello.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v217/niguels/?action=view&current=612Escaglietti.jpg

Also, check out this ferrari with from engine and spoiler...
http://photobucket.com/albums/v217/niguels/?action=view&current=Ferrari575GTC.jpg

This last one justifies the spoiler because is prepared to run for the FIA GT championship, a race with speeds in excess of 150 MPH.

I don't deny the advantages of a spoiler, my point is that a spoiler really starts working, "IF WELL DESIGNED", at speeds that are beyond the Interstate posted limits, therefore spoilers like the lip type ARE NOT FUNCTIONAL in generating any noticeable downforce that would keep the car rear planted to the ground.

For real downforce, the spoiler has to be shaped like an inverted wing, but again, you need a real deal of speed to really notice any difference.

At 200 MPH a Formula 1 car produces as much down force as the weight of the car itself. So, why a car with a wing going @ 100 MPH does not produce as much downforce as half of the weight of Formula 1 car?

Because air resistance does not increase proportionally with the speed. It increases exponentially. It means that when you duplicate the car speed the air resistance increases 4 times. For that reason, at 90 MPH the downforce is not as noticeable as at 150 or 200 MPH. Also, that is the reason that you can reach 100 MPH with a 100 Hp engine, but you need 400 Hp or more to reach 200 MPH.

In my concept most spoilers are just a cosmetic complement, and it is ok since everybody wants their car to look nice... the beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

All spoilers and wings are usually either made of fiber glass or carbon fiber (rare).

Eith of these can easily be torqued and bent in to weird abnormal shapes if they are pressed on from atop... never press on the unsupported sections of your spoiler or anywhere on it anyways...

if your gonna close your trunk for the tC use the handles on the inside/back side of your hatch.

i dun think anyone wants a bent/cracked/torqued/fugly spoiler.....

First of all, the reason he said to use it as a trunk handle is because it serves no other purpose besides sitting there. Secondly, carbon fiber isn't rare, and thirdly, spoilers are ugly.

NICE POST... Very informative.

So a wing provides down-force and a spoiler prevents the vortex from forming. The lip spoiler is useless because it has no air flowing under it rite? :ponder: Do the underbody kits on the TCs help in any way to promote aerodynamics? Or is it just a show once again? Thanks for your inputs guys... keep it going... :)

actually, you are making the common mistake of equating spoilers with wings.
Since they are both attached to the same place people often associate the two.
They serve the same purpose (vehicle stability at high speeds), however the way they accomplish it is slightly different.

Wings are actually the thing you are talking about on race cars. Their primary purpose is to create downforce (they are basically upside down airplane wings). This (normal) force increases the friction resistance between tire and road, hence better grip and therefore better stability.

Spoilers work differently. No matter how aerodynamic a car is, it is still displacing a large amount of air. Barring shaping simliar to a rocket, this air invariably rushes back into the vaccuum left behind a car (the "drafting" zone). And if you imagine the back end of a car to be a block of wood, and took a block of wood and moved it really really fast through water.. you'd noticed that water rushes behind the block of wood in a swirl like pattern.. that pattern is very similiar to the way air rushes back into around a car. At high speeds this swirling air vortex can create "some" lift, thereby destablizing the vehicle. A spoiler is added in this situation to "spoil" the air or to "spoil" that pattern so that lift effect does not occur.

So why are they considered cosmetic? Well for one thing, that swirling vortex is only really a problem at extremely high speeds. That's not to say the spoiler does nothing at low speeds, but the difference with or without a spoiler at such speeds will most likely be negligible. Another this is that some spoilers are made precisely for cosmetic purposes and really don't serve the purpose they were orginally meant. to.

Dang....are you an aeronautical engineer or something? Because I am, and that answer was deep :bow: . Anyone wanna hear about compressibility effects of air flowing faster than mach 0.3? he..he

actually, you are making the common mistake of equating spoilers with wings.
Since they are both attached to the same place people often associate the two.
They serve the same purpose (vehicle stability at high speeds), however the way they accomplish it is slightly different.

Wings are actually the thing you are talking about on race cars. Their primary purpose is to create downforce (they are basically upside down airplane wings). This (normal) force increases the friction resistance between tire and road, hence better grip and therefore better stability.

Spoilers work differently. No matter how aerodynamic a car is, it is still displacing a large amount of air. Barring shaping simliar to a rocket, this air invariably rushes back into the vaccuum left behind a car (the "drafting" zone). And if you imagine the back end of a car to be a block of wood, and took a block of wood and moved it really really fast through water.. you'd noticed that water rushes behind the block of wood in a swirl like pattern.. that pattern is very similiar to the way air rushes back into around a car. At high speeds this swirling air vortex can create "some" lift, thereby destablizing the vehicle. A spoiler is added in this situation to "spoil" the air or to "spoil" that pattern so that lift effect does not occur.

So why are they considered cosmetic? Well for one thing, that swirling vortex is only really a problem at extremely high speeds. That's not to say the spoiler does nothing at low speeds, but the difference with or without a spoiler at such speeds will most likely be negligible. Another this is that some spoilers are made precisely for cosmetic purposes and really don't serve the purpose they were orginally meant. to.

Dang....are you an aeronautical engineer or something? Because I am, and that answer was deep :bow: . Anyone wanna hear about compressibility effects of air flowing faster than mach 0.3? he..he

ah, what the hell, sure!