Where should I go to get more hp out of this baby. I love my Scion, but it's weak!! HELP!!!!

INTAKE header and exhaUST.

Trade it in on something with more power. It's a budget car,
not a sports car.

So many people complain that their Scions are weak, or slow. Raven's right: it's a budget car, not a sports car. If you want to peel out at lights and race Civics left and right, look elsewhere.

I dont' think that's the point guys. Some of us bought the cars for the style they provide. We just wanna know if there are ways to squeeze any more power out of 'em while keeping that style. Buying a different car doesn't help...

Besides the traditional I.H.E. setup, you can add other mods that will help plant that power efficiently to your four wheels.

Mods like that include;
Lightweight Flywheel
Lightweight crank pulley
High flow cat and resonator
Larger injectors and iridium plugs

OK Then.

Supercharger or Turbo Charger

Upgrade the exhaust
Upgrade the fuel system
Upgrade the air intake
At that point you should upgrade the brakes for safety.

Now you just turned a $15,000 car into a $25,000 car and voided your
warranties.

Sorry to sound like a _____, but it's a 110HP budget box. And that's at the flywheel.
Real world HP at the wheels is about 93HP.

Now you want to add some amps, subs, deadening, lighting, braces, bigger heavier
wheels. Now instead of 93HP pushing a 2380LB car, it's pushing a 2500lb not
including you sitting in it.

In the Porsche club we have a saying, the best performance increase you can do
to *any* car, is make it lighter.

Maybe if you are looking for power, start with the tC and get the Super Charger
that is coming out in March (I think). The Scion are well designed (for what they
are intended to be), and don't cut too many corners to cut cost. But the xA is
*not* a performance/sports car.

Good post ^. I agree completely. It's like I said in another thread somewhere; the reason I am so happy with my xA is because I have realistic expectations from it. It wasn't designed to be a performance car, so I'm not going to complain about it's performance. It's not a luxury car, so I won't complain about the ride. I think my xA has plenty of zip for around town and does just fine cruising the highway. Is it's speed going to impress anyone? No, but if that's what I wanted my car to do, I would have bought a different car. I love my xA.

geez guys . alot of people bought these cars for their unique styling and value. but that doesnt mean we cant expect the same gains a honda could make . i know it's not that easy but come on most newer people think that they can. relax. if someone wants to make it a hot rod let them. fark i mean chill. i know i'm gonna squeeze in another motor to get the power but alot of people arent looking for a rocket. most people just want the pickup and power to be respectable which 110 at the fly is not. intake header exhuats , and iridiums will get you a nicely tuned decently quick perfectly capable car. stock just will not cut it.

Speed is just a question of MONEY. How fast do you want to go?

the best mod you can do to any car is make it lighter?

go by this rule

for every 100lbs you remove, it will be 1/2 a car length.

and get lighter rims, not those stupid 18-19" pizza pans that people put on there. i mean i wasn't that great at physics but the 8lb rims on my old civic made a huge difference in handling and arguably acceleration and braking.

8 pound rims r gonna be bank rolla

i had an 05 xB 5spd with aem intake, greddy sp2 exhaust, dcsports header. it had plenty of power for me, i never had any issues getting up to speed or anything. it was plenty of power for me.

i did notice a big difference when i took the intake off before trading it in, it didnt rev up as quick

they were just the VX rims. exact same size as my stock steel rims. one could get bigger size rims in that weight but pay a hefty price for them.

yeah i'd like some track light 17 pound 17"s , kinda expensive but lighter than stock and bigger than stock . nice. theyre almost always frickin flat black lol.

Are these the plugs you guys are taling about?

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/cars_trucks_suvs/iridiumix.asp

All the real world studies I've read showed that regular
copper core plugs perform the best. The Iridium plugs only
last longer and perform equally as well. The Porsche Club
tests a LOT of this stuff out to dispell the BS. It's too easy
to get caught up in magnets and super plugs and magic
wires and super oils and be throwing money away.

Speaking of lighter rims, I'm breaking my own rule of keeping
it light....I REALLY, REALLY want chrome or polished rims
and I want to go 17". I've spent a couple of hours a day for
the past week searching, and the only rims I like are 26lbs
each where the stock steels are...what 16lbs?

Bah, damn triple chrome plating is heavy! I hope I don't
regret getting these rims!

i think stock rims are alot more than 16. not sure tho. upgrade yer brakes , i'm borrowing some 18"s and man they look good but , i thot theyd slow me down alot but they really havent they have however increased my braking time by ALOT.

I thought the stock wheel/tire was ~37 pounds. Seems like the steelies would weigh more than 16 pounds if the combo is 37. :eyebrow:

yeah most tires in such small sizes are sub 20 pounds.

Trade it in on something with more power. It's a budget car,
not a sports car.

You are so correct! If you want a fast car, buy a fast car...

Besides the traditional I.H.E. setup, you can add other mods that will help plant that power efficiently to your four wheels.

Mods like that include;
Lightweight Flywheel
Lightweight crank pulley
High flow cat and resonator
Larger injectors and iridium plugs

A lightweight flywheel has a bad effect on drivability.. especially in real world driving..

Crank pulley will not yield enough HP to make it worthwhile

Larger injectors and plugs will not help without ECM changes and better breathing.. all you will do is waste gas and money

lower the backpressure by changing the exhaust and you lose low bottom end power...

better off leaving it stock.. its pretty efficient and it is extracting good HP for its size and fuel consumption

weight savings = the biggest improvement you can make on your car.

Besides the traditional I.H.E. setup, you can add other mods that will help plant that power efficiently to your four wheels.

Mods like that include;
Lightweight Flywheel
Lightweight crank pulley
High flow cat and resonator
Larger injectors and iridium plugs

A lightweight flywheel has a bad effect on drivability.. especially in real world driving..

Crank pulley will not yield enough HP to make it worthwhile

Larger injectors and plugs will not help without ECM changes and better breathing.. all you will do is waste gas and money

lower the backpressure by changing the exhaust and you lose low bottom end power...

better off leaving it stock.. its pretty efficient and it is extracting good HP for its size and fuel consumption
Dude stop being a troll. If someone wants to make their box fast/er let them. With just exhaust if you use conservative piping you lose no torque but gain hp. It's when people run 2.5 piping that they lose tq, with 2.0 or 2.25(in some cases) is when it's ok.

chill dude

Besides the traditional I.H.E. setup, you can add other mods that will help plant that power efficiently to your four wheels.

Mods like that include;
Lightweight Flywheel
Lightweight crank pulley
High flow cat and resonator
Larger injectors and iridium plugs

A lightweight flywheel has a bad effect on drivability.. especially in real world driving..

Crank pulley will not yield enough HP to make it worthwhile

Larger injectors and plugs will not help without ECM changes and better breathing.. all you will do is waste gas and money

lower the backpressure by changing the exhaust and you lose low bottom end power...

better off leaving it stock.. its pretty efficient and it is extracting good HP for its size and fuel consumption

crank pulley is only 135$ and people with it installed have noiced the engine revs up quicker, which helps a little, its not major, but every little thing helps if power is what you are looking for.

Besides the traditional I.H.E. setup, you can add other mods that will help plant that power efficiently to your four wheels.

Mods like that include;
Lightweight Flywheel
Lightweight crank pulley
High flow cat and resonator
Larger injectors and iridium plugs

A lightweight flywheel has a bad effect on drivability.. especially in real world driving..

Crank pulley will not yield enough HP to make it worthwhile

Larger injectors and plugs will not help without ECM changes and better breathing.. all you will do is waste gas and money

lower the backpressure by changing the exhaust and you lose low bottom end power...

better off leaving it stock.. its pretty efficient and it is extracting good HP for its size and fuel consumption
Dude stop being a troll. If someone wants to make their box fast/er let them. With just exhaust if you use conservative piping you lose no torque but gain hp. It's when people run 2.5 piping that they lose tq, with 2.0 or 2.25(in some cases) is when it's ok.

chill dude

Who's being a troll... ? It's all true. It applies to most applications not just the Xb. So you take the chill pill and maybe grow up a little.

How am I being immature . If people want to improve their car let them.I'm sure if alot of people could afford a much faster car they'd probably have gotten one . Alot of people bought these cars because they like the styling. If this same body was available with more powerful powerplants alot of people would have opted for them but we are stuck with an awesomely styled vehicle with little performance.So alot of us improve on the vehicles performance when possible. I will take a wild guess and say that 108 hp no matter how light the vehicle is not enough power. I'm also going to guess that we don't all need 200 hp. But 108 is pretty damned weak whether the motor is efficient or not. Any power increase makes the car alot more fun to drive as well as being able to easily navigate it's way into and out of traffic without working it's heart out and still coming up short.

yeah but you can only soup it up so far. just imagine if it didn't have vvti?

yeah but you can only soup it up so far. just imagine if it didn't have vvti?
dude we don't need nightmares , lol.

How am I being immature . If people want to improve their car let them.I'm sure if alot of people could afford a much faster car they'd probably have gotten one . Alot of people bought these cars because they like the styling. If this same body was available with more powerful powerplants alot of people would have opted for them but we are stuck with an awesomely styled vehicle with little performance.So alot of us improve on the vehicles performance when possible. I will take a wild guess and say that 108 hp no matter how light the vehicle is not enough power. I'm also going to guess that we don't all need 200 hp. But 108 is pretty damned weak whether the motor is efficient or not. Any power increase makes the car alot more fun to drive as well as being able to easily navigate it's way into and out of traffic without working it's heart out and still coming up short.

You accused me of being a troll. All I did was point out the negatives of doing some of these mods. How do I know this? Because I have tried all those mods and many more on other cars throughout the many years of owning various cars. I used to be a mechanic so I can speak from experience.
I am not saying you can't get any additional power with mods. I am saying that there are many negatives to doing these mods and they usually don't yield the power expected.
Many mods need to be done with the proper synergy. For example:
You can't improve the intake side of an engine and expect much power without improving the exhaust, fuel, programming, etc..
Many times when you add extra power you upset the balance of the car. There are also issues with driveability and reliabaility as the rest of the car is now not up to the task of handling the extra power.
I once added a low mass flywheel to my Eclipse . It was great as the car was able to rev up much quicker... but I could not drive it in traffic as it became difficult to mange the shifting. I also cranked up the boost which blew the seals. I added a better clutch to handle the power and blew the center diff and the half shafts... and on and on... But that was a Mitsu and not a Toyota.. :)
I still tweak my cars.... but not to the point of making them unreliable or affecting the driveability.
Peace

ok I understand that but intake , header , exhaust will not be hurting the reliability of the car , same goes for the crank pulley , maybe not the flywheel but def the pulley. I have driven a few cars with lightweight flywheels but never in traffic.
And dsm's are definately not toyota's . lol . Those cars make me laugh , able to produce soo much power yet the rest of the car really cannot handle it.
Most , note I'm saying most not all Toyota's come from the factory pretty damned overbuilt. I know this is apples to oranges but... the chassis and other support factors of an mkIII supra that came stock with either 205 or 235 hp can easily handle 500 hp.

wow guys how old are we here. im 15 and i can tell...
1. your taking the comment that you're a troll a little too much to the heart and
2. you're both kinda getting off the subject. whoever asked the question doesn't wanna here someone talk about how they should take what they said back
Also, I think the xa can have power, people are comming up w/ ideas but everyone's shutting them down left and right. If you buy a scion for it's looks but still have some pocket change left over, you can do something to make it go faster. I don't think anyone wants to hear that they should have gotten a different car if they wanted more power.

If you buy a scion for it's looks but still have some pocket change left over, you can do something to make it go faster. I don't think anyone wants to hear that they should have gotten a different car if they wanted more power.
That is my way of thinking.

Everyone always complains about the xA/xB power, but I have absolutely no problems with mine, and the only upgrade is an intake.

As mentioned above, headers, intake and exhaust are about the only things you're going to be able to to cheap and without seriously screwing your warranty.

Forced induction is something that everyone and their uncle talks about on this forum and hardly anybody has done.

Our xB project car had the Blitz supercharger on it and even though it was WAAAAAAY faster than stock, it was by no means a fast car. It probably wouldn't even compete with a stock tC.

The fact of the matter is the xA/xB will NEVER BE A FAST CAR unless you have the $$$$$ to put some major work into beefing up your internals. Put more than 7 pounds of boost into the 1NZ-FE and see what happens after awhile.

Drive your car, enjoy your car, look cool in it. Don't race it. If you want to race, go buy a tC with a blower or get an WRX or something.

If anyone was sounding like a troll in this thread it was me.

Anywho, I think the point those of us with more experience
are trying to make, is that we have learned that throwing
money into performance upgrades on a non-performance
car is simply a waste of money.

Sure it's *his car and he can do what he wants to it*, we are
just trying to save him lots of pain and pocketbook suffering
from our own experience.

So yes, do what you choose, but those of us who know and
have been there realize that the money put it doesn't equal
the power put out...and worse then that, the trade in/selling
value doesn't reflect the money/time put in. Talk about
adding insult to injury! LOL

So, again, from my experience, which is with Porsches mind
you...sometimes you just need to realize you got what you
paid for and without MAJOR $$ and Time and PITA factor
you still have a budget car with marginal performance
improvement.

My Porsche 924S is 150HP on a 2700lb car. The
compression is such that I don't have the option of adding
a Super or Turbo. So I can put $10,000 into a car that
costs $4000 on the used market and have marginal gains,
or I can just save up that $10,000 and buy a 944 Turbo
and have a performance designed vehicle which is also a
better platform for upgrades.

I hope this helps out some...sorry I sounded like a troll
previously, I hope I've explained myself better this time.

Bingo, well put.

By the time you buy the blower or turbo and build up the motor so it can handle more than 2psi (yes, I'm kidding) you're going to be out like $10,000.

Putting that much money into a $15,000 car to make it marginally faster is just not a good way to spend money, IMO.

Taking that money and buying a car that is actually meant to go fast would be better.

ok, here is my example. i came from an 85 civic dx hb auto. stock = 76hp, 1970 lbs. with the a/c off and only me in the car it was pretty fun. the a/c was effectively my 'traction control' as it sapped gobs of power. changed my crankshaft pulley to unorthodox racing street. now with the a/c on it felt like when it was turned off stock. YRMV.

changed torsion bars/springs/shocks/struts, added strut tower brace, went to VX rims and handling was immensely better, but ride quality went down to an almost unbearable level. luckily i bought adjustable shocks/struts so if i needed to i could soften it back up.

changed induction to a weber 34 dmtr, tuned it daily for about a year and $200 worth of jets and the car had much improved low/midrange torque which made top gear tremendously more useful (it only had 3 gears!) but the top end still sucked. it is only a 1.5L engine so that is the limitation. if i opened up the exhaust i would have lost the low end torque that was already in short supply so i left that stock.

total cost for mods: ~$1500. current value of car: $~700. but it was my first car and I learned a lot from working on/modding/tuning it myself.

bottom line is you can only go so far based on what you have to work with. past that you need a different engine, then you need a different chassis. sure i could've done a b16/b18 swap but imagine how much that would have cost.

so my suggestion to xa/xb's out there is the best way to improve your car's performance is suspension/braking mods. in other words, make the best use of the power you do have (suspension) and be able to hold speed longer (good brakes make you a MUCH more confident driver when you know what the limits are).

ps: stay away from heavy rims, i know they look all perty but as everyone passes you i don't think they care what rims you have. the VX rims allowed the suspension to work much better; the car felt 'lighter on it's feet'.

Everyone always complains about the xA/xB power, but I have absolutely no problems with mine, and the only upgrade is an intake.

As mentioned above, headers, intake and exhaust are about the only things you're going to be able to to cheap and without seriously screwing your warranty.

Forced induction is something that everyone and their uncle talks about on this forum and hardly anybody has done.

Our xB project car had the Blitz supercharger on it and even though it was WAAAAAAY faster than stock, it was by no means a fast car. It probably wouldn't even compete with a stock tC.

The fact of the matter is the xA/xB will NEVER BE A FAST CAR unless you have the $$$$$ to put some major work into beefing up your internals. Put more than 7 pounds of boost into the 1NZ-FE and see what happens after awhile.

Drive your car, enjoy your car, look cool in it. Don't race it. If you want to race, go buy a tC with a blower or get an WRX or something.
I can stay even with auto tc , and can hang pretty well with trd exhaust stick tC.

Oh and you can get pretty decnt gains with 7psi at a cost of about 4k. not a fully built 215hp $10,000 xa but still.

I attended the BMW driving school with my son about 3 months ago. It was a great experience that I totally enjoyed and learned from.

After the class, the mod I realized I needed to make was to adjust the nut behind the wheel. :)
We drove Z4's and 330i's around different road courses... Getting up to 95+ mph on the straights... With a little training and practice my times were much improved. We drove the hell out of those cars. They were all stock with about 225hp.
The instructors did some laps and beat our times by a couple of seconds... using the same cars...
If the cars were twice as powerful, we would have only made mistakes quicker... Would not have made a difference until we could drive them better.
My son and I took first and second place out of a class of 32. He beat me by 1/100th of a second! He never lets me forget this...

Great thread and good viewpoints... Was not trying to offend anyone.. Just relaying some experiences that might save someone some $$$

I'm an old fart now and learned from my many mistakes... I had alot of fun would do it all over again.

You all have fun with your mods... I'll be watching for you and will probably still run you if I get the chance... :)

I don't mind losing... it's all fun.
Mike (old and gray but still refusing to grow up)

Sorry if I ____ed you off with the troll thing . mike . I understand the whole doubling teh power for a course . alot of guys are making street cruisers that could hit the 1/4 if they wanted . Tracking a car is a crazy balance of alot more than just power . I loved it in my old bimmer.

Someone mentioned warranties earlier in the post...Are all warranties voided even if you used TRD parts (as expensive as they are)?

warranty is such a touch subject.

you only void the warranty that the part affects.. if you change springs, and your struts go bad, they aren't covered under warranty.

if you turbo the engine, and break a halfshaft, it's not covered under warranty.

but an intake will not void your electrical warranty, and a stereo won't void your suspension warranty.

a warranty can only be voided if the part you've added is the direct or indirect cause of the car's fault.

warranty is such a touch subject.

you only void the warranty that the part affects.. if you change springs, and your struts go bad, they aren't covered under warranty.

if you turbo the engine, and break a halfshaft, it's not covered under warranty.

but an intake will not void your electrical warranty, and a stereo won't void your suspension warranty.

a warranty can only be voided if the part you've added is the direct or indirect cause of the car's fault.

thanks for the good explanation. I almost dont want to do anything performance enhancing because of that, but the little echo heart needs a little jolt.
I got cruise and alloys on mine and that's about it. I asked the salesman about cold air induction and he said "We can do that but you honestly probably wont feel the difference" That was the last thing I expected to hear from him. I wonder if there is any real truth to what he said. Nonetheless, I am happy with my scion for the most part.

salesman is correct. you'll HEAR the engine tho...

i've shortened the intake by basically ending right at the filter, not giving me any more power, but at least now i hear the engine.. i don't bounce off the rev limiter as much..

whoever said "do suspension" is 100% correct.

compare the time of a stock xA at autoX VS my car..
http://autox.carlc.com/results/11-29-04/er041128_fin.htm#HS
see last place in H stock
http://autox.carlc.com/results/11-29-04/er041128_fin.htm#FSP
see first place in FSP..

suspension and good tires is where it's at.... you'll spend $$$$$$$'s of dollars to make the car fast in the straight, but why do that when you can spend much less and make the car fast where it's really fun, and actually rewarding to your psyche, as well as making you a better driver?..

~'s > -'s

hehe i even had cheapo tires on the civic since i had 13x5 (ish) rims and it was still a lot more fun.

Not many people wanna auto x tho. it's less gratifying than on the street. I agree it is lots of fun . but eh nm . theres lots of ways to make these cars better , faster , more stable , everything.

Not many people wanna auto x tho. it's less gratifying than on the street. I agree it is lots of fun . but eh nm . theres lots of ways to make these cars better , faster , more stable , everything.

i never raced/autox'd the civic. i was modding it to be an easier to drive street car. i feel i succeeded. about the better, faster, stronger just remember EVERYTHING is a compromise. just depends if you are willing to accept the downside for the upside.