SanClementeXB2

This sucks. I have a 2008 Scion xB with a manual transmission with 50,000 miles on it. I love driving the car; it will get 30MPG all day long going 80MPH with the AC on (if you put good gas in it).
Anyway, the synchro on 3'rd gear went out last week on my car and I've been avoiding that gear for a week now. I took the car into Power Toyota where I bought it.

Its taken them 3 days to get the transmission taken apart so far. Everything they do they are claiming needs corporate approval: "We need corporate authorization to inspect the tranny, we need a corporate inspector to come and look at it, we need a corporate manager to make the call on this that or the other." Essentially the dealer is claiming they have no discretionary powers of their own. They would not agree to even touch and inspect the car until I agreed to a $950 teardown fee. In all fairness this should have been a blatant warning sign and I should have gotten my car out of there the instant such an absurdity was said.

So the transmission is supposed to be warrantied for 60,000 miles. The Corporate inspector says there is burnt fluid in the transmission and the other sychros are too worn for their taste so the say the failure is my fault and they will cover absolutely nothing;
the synchros are considered wearable parts on this issue. Toyota/Scion wants:

$3869.10 to replace the transmission, clutch, and bearing set.

or

$2,200 if I just want the one single synchro replaced

or

$950 to get my transmission put back together unfixed so I can take it somewhere else.

I told the service tech that for the price of the repairs I could go out and get 3 used cars. He said "But in what condition?"

I replied what the hell does it matter; if I had three other cars right now besides the Scion your are refusing to do warranty work on I wouldn't be stranded and car less right now, would I?

He got kinda snotty with me after I said that.

Now I could have gotten a much better price on these repairs just about anywhere but the teardown fee leaves me screwed so that no matter how cheap I can get the work done elsewhere I will save at most a couple hundred bucks.

For those of you who think the power train warranty is all inclusive and customer friendly think again. Toyota/SCION will try to stall and wiggle out of any type of warranty work on your vehicle if given the chance. The transmission shops I have talked to about this have said that just about every modern car made in the last 10 years from SCION, Mistibishi, and Subaru have motors too strong for the manual transmissions they are mated up with and that he does tons of synchros for people who think that their little performance car can handle some sport shifting. Learn from my mistake; IF THE DEALER TRIES TO GET YOU TO AGREE TO A TEARDOWN FEE LEAVE IMMEDIATELY AND GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!

So now I'm getting ready to play the screaming game with the service manager and get a lawyer involved to comb over the warranty policy. There are already three people at my work who are getting new cars who are avoiding Toyota/SCION products now based on my experience. Who knows how big that number will be a month from now...

This isn't about the products but the treatment I've received from the service end of of Toyota/Scion. If had known that the powertrain warranty was useless I would have just bought a used truck and tricked it out the money I would have saved vs buying the new Scion xB. Oh well, that's what I get for being an idiot and wanting to have the cool new car with one backup light.

I should have followed my gut instinct and just bought the darn pickup truck instead...

elwaylite

iTrader: (1)

I'd calm down and get the good lawyer. Also, its another reason why my auto with the WS 100k mile fluid will be getting changed every 30k.

helloimhat

sammmee exact thing happen to me!
but to my tC not xB

1. Accept to pay for tear down.
2. Synchros.
3. Got a call that they werent going to cover it.

they told me something about a courtesy help or some crap. Like i would pay part of it, dealer pay another part, and Toyota pays the rest.

then i got ____ed and i was going to call Toyota directly to complain then have a lawyer go at it from there.

but then they called a day later and said that they decided to cover it.

wtf? :?

talk about luck.

but yea just call Toyota directly.

thats what everyone on here told me to do.

worth a shot.

and wayyy better than paying over 3k.

GL w/everything though.

nodsetse

That's the key, it doesn't help you now, but at least you realize this going forward.

I suppose a lawyer might be worth a shot, considering you'll be out some $$$ either way. Did you happen to take it in for service at 30k miles? The scheduled maintenance guide indicates the "front differential oil" and "transmission fluid or oil" should be "inspected" at 30k/36mo, so if that wasn't done or you can't show that it was, that might be what they cite them not covering it. The thing is, the guide doesn't actually define exactly what "inspected" means (fluid level check? smell for burned fluid? what?), only "when performing inspections, check each component for signs of leakage". I suppose being vague like that helps enable them to decline warranty coverage in scenarios such as yours.

Best of luck, I hope it works out for ya.

randomsuper

i don't know how you drive, but if you drive it like you stole it, don't complain when parts aren't covered under warranty. no warranty will cover abuse and there are lots of ways for any competent mechanic to see how well a car was maintained and treated during the course of it's life.

either way, i hope you get the situation worked out to your satisfaction.

draxcaliber

1. I'm sorry your dealership sucks. but call and speak with Toyota Scion directly in regards to your case as to why it is not covered.

2. the transmission in the tC/xB2 is actually very strong. just look at all the turbo charged members on this forum pushing out twice the horsepower that the car came with, just had to change the clutch.

3. maintenance records are your friend. if you have them saying the car was serviced properly to dismiss any claim of neglect. hopefully they mention differential oil inspection and such.

TheCCBox

iTrader: (1)

I have had my trans replaced 2 times already and i am only at 28k miles. When i had them change the first one it was 1st to 2nd gear synchro. The last one the took out had brunt oil and metal shaving in it and lasted under 1200 miles LOL!!! I just think it was cause the mechs fault putting the wrong fluid or not enough. But the trans should be warrentied for 100k miles drive train. or even 60k miles. I would call and ask another dealer and get there opinion on whats going on with the warrenty stuff. I got a rental from 2 weeks each time. They had to call for the approval to every time but I had no prob getting it done or even a rental.

rickbreitenfeldt

Do you have your maintenance records showing the correct maintenance schedule was followed and was done? Our service schedule shows an inspection of fluid at 30k.

If you do, call Toyota/Scion corp and let them know you have the info and can fax it all to them. They will probably cover it fully at that time.

If not, then call them still and in a firm but not rude tone address the fact that the years and mileage of the xB places it under their (Scion) warranty time periods and that you demand satisfaction under your warranty or legal counsel will be sought. You will add those attorney fees and any litigation fees into your future decision concerning your settling either with Toyota/Scion or a Judge.

Stay the course. Unless...

You did drive it like you stole it and/or ignored getting the service done. Then you are FUBAR'd

AAG

iTrader: (1)

How did manage to fubar every synchro in your tranny? Welcome to the evil world of the auto industry. Get a lawyer asap and let them handle it.

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

OK, so I have approaching 130K on my Eclipse GSX manual and the synchros feel no worse than the day I drove it new off the lot. Bottom line is synchros usually last a very long time if the transmission is properly maintained, clutched, and otherwise operated normally, as opposed to dropping the hammer racing, showing off, or other abuse (not using the clutch, forcing the gears, whatever!)

My question to you is exactly how did you drive this transmission in order to wipe out the synchros? I can easily understand the dealer viewpoint that the vehicle has been abused.

SanClementeXB2

So I'm going through with all the work. I have gotten $400 dollar knocked off so far. I'm going to try and get another $500-1,000 knocked off when I go to pick it up if I can pick out some common errors on the invoice: I will be THAT GUY who takes the discussion to the middle of the crowded showroom using only his outside voice making sure that every potential customer in earshot hears every detail. Honestly, it isn't like I have anything to loose at this point. Also my car is 100% paid off; I'm interested in what my insurance company would have to say about this. They may just total it out: The car is worth $9-11k depending on who's buying and terms of the deal a $3,500 tranny job may qualify the car as a wreck.

I have wrote about my experience to SCION corporate and they want to talk. I'll be calling them in about an hour. I'll ley you all know how this pans out.

I've called a few more trans shops about this; they laughed and said that this is by no means an isolated incident for the XB2's. To much power for a soft trans is what they have all said.

BTW

I drove a 2004 Kia Sephia with a manual transmission the exact same way I drive my XB2. I put 120,000 miles on that transmission before I handed it off to a relative. That trans had exactly 1 fluid change at 100,000 miles; that's it. The car still drives great, shifts firm, and now has just about 200,000 miles on it. I am floored that a Kia Sephia has a better matched powertrain package than a Scion xB2 but I have to stand by the evidence.

Likewise my father had a 1980 Toyota pick with 500,000 miles on the original transmission; 4 fluid changes over it's lifetime. That truck got totaled in a wreck but it didn't show any signs of quiting at all up until its final moments; 22R is the best 4 cylinder engine on earth BTW.

If I can get out of my xB2 without loosing my shirt I think I'm just going to get another KIA runner and a used Toyota or Nissan pickup and call it a day.

SanClementeXB2

I really don't think I over drove that transmission. I'm 33 year old commuter not a racer: I view burnouts and chirping around corners as a signs of a substandard driver. If I want to go fast I'll hop on motorcycle and scare myself half to death. The xB2 has too much roll, the gears aren't space out correctly, and traction control kills to much performance for racing around; it is just supposed to be my 30 MPG runner (with ample storage).

vettereddie

Have you talked to the Scion hotline yet? I had a different issue, but same problem with the dealership. I threw a rod and put a hole in the block, but the only mod at the time was a header and TRD cold air intake. The dealer had me agree to a $500 teardown fee before even looking at the engine, then said it wasn't covered because they claimed it was hydrolock and conveniently the CAI was considered off-road" use and not warrantable, even though it was a dealer-purchased part.

I fought it as much as I freely could, and went to arbitration. Look in your owner's manual, there are instructions there. The arbitration decision is not legally binding if they do not find in your favor. It's mediated through a third party, not directly affiliated with Toyota. Of course, even though I'm a degreed engineer, the arbitrator decided to go with the dealer tech who had ASE certification. In the end, I was out $500, had another friend tow it home with a car trailor, and then did a self-install of a junkyard motor with 20k on it for $250. Haven't had a problem since. I saved time at least since they had already pulled the motor, and kept all the parts in rubber wal-mart totes. Now I've got a full set of spare sensors and alternator.

Later a friend who works at a different, though further away dealer, sent me an update that the 04-05 TRD CAI was now a warrantable item. The 06 was still not covered since it removed the charcoal filter element makes it non-emmission legal, so I've decided not to fight it further.

Here's the link for the arbitration route. According to your warranty you need to go through arbitration before sueing. You can have a lawyer, 3rd party mechanic, or anyone else present though. It miight help to get a non-toyota mechanic to look at it first and vouch that you didn't break it through misuse.
http://www.ncdsusa.org/

Scion customer experience is:
(866)707-2466

SanClementeXB2

Thanks for the link I'll be checking into that one.

I called the Scion hotline and they have a claims rep looking over this right now. The person on the other end told me the tC and the xB2 both have the same tranny and the that tC has had some of the same problems.
WHY he would tell ME that I have no clue (maybe he hates his job). Oh well, I certainly plan on letting the claims rep know what the guy who took my call told me.

He tried to give me the usual spiel about customers not driving the car properly and needing to adjust there driving/shifting habits to operate the vehicle properly.... I told him have I have drivin 50 hp Datsuns,
600 Hp Mustangs, dump trucks, industrial flatbeds, and everything in between all with manual transmissions over the last 18 years and have never encountered this type of failure.

It sounds like all I can really hope for is a retro payment for a portion of the repairs after I pay the dealership. I have no idea how much is any of the cost of repairs they may be willing to discount at this time.

vettereddie

Just FYI, the arbitration route takes a little while, 30 days if you want an in-person meeting. Toyota will send reps to that one, it won't just be the local dealer you're up against. You can also get a written decision, haven't gone that route and you may have better luck and a quicker decision. Biggest mistake I did is not getting a second opinion from a non-Toyota mechanic. If you can get someone ASE certified to say it wasn't misuse, you should win. Has your insurance sent anyone? if they say it wasn't misuse that would help as well.

caliban

iTrader: (4)

sorry about your experience w/ that dealership.. hope they will cover the repair under warranty.

Subscribed.

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

The synchros are not responsible for dealing with power, they are responsble for non-loaded shifting (clutch fully in). Consequently, the tranny shops may well be right when it comes to the street racers, but not when it comes to proper shifting practices. If the problem was gears, shafts, bearings, then their response would make sense.

Just how different is this transmission from the tC manual? Toyota has been succesfully mating the 2.4L to a five speed tranny for years!

This whole situation just doesn't make sense! Still, I hope you're able to get the tranny repaired without too much wallet damage.

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

Was just reading the xB2 and xB1 both have the same rear hubs and bearings, and that's appearing as a possible weak point as early as 50K. As far as I've read, the difference between the tC and xB2 manual trannys is the gear ratios, so I'm really interested in seeing if there's a rash of tranny problems with the xB2, because if there are, it should be clearly flagged in advance with a like problem with the tC. Synchro operation should be unloaded, if it isn't -- that's the driver at fault. (Synchros also don't like to be pushed, they like to take their own time -- which is actually reasonably quick on the xB2 tranny.)

SanClementeXB2

As far as I know the trannies are exactly the same from what the Scion rep told me, I don't know if the ratios are the same or not. I'm going off of what the guy on the other end of the line at Scion told me on that one.

The tranny shops didn't really mention racers for the xB2 repairs; just premature failure. The funniest ones they said are the kids that think they have a full blown Race/Rally car when they drive a WRX off the lot; been told those come in sometimes in real bad shape.

I hope I get out of this without getting my wallet destroyed as well. If I had just gone to a local trans shop first I could have had the trans rebuilt (replace all soft parts), and gotten the clutch and bearing done for $1,600. I am actually just about as mad at myself over this as I am with Scion corporate. I've been driving and maintaining cars for 18 years and I should have known better than to let myself get snared like this; COMPLACENCY WILL DESTROY YOUR WALLET!

SanClementeXB2

So I had to pick up a rental for getting around for a few days. I noticed that the odometer only had 380 miles on it when I picked it up so I guess it qualifies as new; more or less.

My Rental is a new Nissan Versa.

Here is my quick and dirty take on it. Good decent size with good trunk space. Too cramped on the front passenger side. Tall people will not like riding shotgun. The little window cutouts in the front are nice looking accents but they play little tricks with my peripheral vision making me see things out of the corner of my eye twice; I may very well get used to this if I drove it for a couple months. It doesn't have a center console or arm rests; I HATE THAT!!! I don't like how the door seems to "lean" on you, not big shoulder friendly.

Power; well it will go from 0-60 in under 10 sec. that is about all I can say about that. The auto trans does what it is supposed to and nothing more.

It drives very easy and can actually soak up a pretty sharp corner without rolling to much.

The sound system sucks; my stock xB2 sounds like a concert hall compared to this thing.

No sex appeal; girls don't check me out like they do when I'm in my xB2.

It has good visibility all around and it doesn't have those big annoying blind spots that I have in my xB2. I can judge where the front of the car is pretty easy and park it close and tight.

Decent runner or first car. I think it is an excellent choice for a rental vehicle, pizza delivery, or light courier service. I wouldn't want my family in it with me if it got in a wreck though.