...for all.

I continually hear things like "if you wanted a fast car, you shouldn't have gotten an xb/xa," and "Why bother, these cars aren't meant to go fast?"

I will concede this one point to those people: If some newb thinks he's gonna spend 3.5k on a turbo/supercharger kit.......and get 225 hp (that will last for more than a run or two down the track).............yeah, he's looking at the wrong car. Fact of life.....period......end of story on that one.

But....what a lot of individuals around here need to understand is that the simple fact that these cars are NOT made to go fast is part of the reason why being able to MAKE them go fast IS such an awesome idea.

Case in point. Some teenage kid can get an STI for his birthday. Right off the bat he's got a fast car. He can work a summer job........pop a few grand for some mods.........and have a really fast car. So he's got a fast car............fun to drive.............................and yet he's one in a billion other people with fast STIs. Where is the exclusivity in that? Everyone on the road expects his car to be fast. When he puts the pedal to the metal, and screams off down the road.........no one is surprised. Big deal. Ho hum......another fast STI.

Taking an xB/xA and making it fast is NOT EASY and it is NOT CHEAP. So for the few and far between who have made it happen, you are gods among Scion owners. Why? Because not any old person can do it. YOU are setting a precedent as opposed to simply matching an easily achievable norm. It took work, effort, time, and money on your part to be one of few......and that is respectable.........and COOL!

Personally.........I'd be far more impressed with a Scion that can run a 14 in the quarter than a STI that can run a 12.5.

And then.......there's the people that love the Scions. They love the way they look.......they love the price.......the love the features........they love that it's a Japanese made Toyota. But.......they're a bit disappointed in the power. They're looking for a bit more kick in the pants...........a reasonable horsepower increase. This shouldn't be too much to ask.

So the overall message here is..........for the people that want to get a bit more power out of their xA/xB.............and those who want to take it to the limit....................LEAVE THEM THE HELL ALONE! Correcting unrealistic expectation is one thing (like, "hey, what kind of bolts ons do I need to get over 200 hp)............but constantly having to say dumb crap like "Why are you bothering trying to make an econo car fast.......go buy and Evo 8" is useless and freakin annoying.

KiL

I continually hear things like "if you wanted a fast car, you shouldn't have gotten an xb/xa," and "Why bother, these cars aren't meant to go fast?"

I will concede this one point to those people: If some newb thinks he's gonna spend 3.5k on a turbo/supercharger kit.......and get 225 hp (that will last for more than a run or two down the track).............yeah, he's looking at the wrong car. Fact of life.....period......end of story on that one.

But....what a lot of individuals around here need to understand is that the simple fact that these cars are NOT made to go fast is part of the reason why being able to MAKE them go fast IS such an awesome idea.

Case in point. Some teenage kid can get an STI for his birthday. Right off the bat he's got a fast car. He can work a summer job........pop a few grand for some mods.........and have a really fast car. So he's got a fast car............fun to drive.............................and yet he's one in a billion other people with fast STIs. Where is the exclusivity in that? Everyone on the road expects his car to be fast. When he puts the petal to the metal, and screams off down the road.........no one is surprised. Big deal. Ho hum......another fast STI.

Taking an xB/xA and making it fast is NOT EASY and it is NOT CHEAP. So for the few and far between who have made it happen, you are gods among Scion owners. Why? Because not any old person can do it. YOU are setting a precedent as opposed to simply matching an easily achievable norm. It took work, effort, time, and money on your part to be one of few......and that is respectable.........and COOL!

Personally.........I'd be far more impressed with a Scion that can run a 14 in the quarter than a STI that can run a 12.5.

And then.......there's the people that love the Scions. They love the way they look.......they love the price.......the love the features........they love that it's a Japanese made Toyota. But.......they're a bit disappointed in the power. They're looking for a bit more kick in the pants...........a reasonable horsepower increase. This shouldn't be too much to ask.

So the overall message here is..........for the people that want to get a bit more power out of their xA/xB.............and those who want to take it to the limit....................LEAVE THEM THE HELL ALONE! Correcting unrealistic expectation is one thing (like, "hey, what kind of bolts ons do I need to get over 200 hp)............but constantly having to say dumb crap like "Why are you bothering trying to make an econo car fast.......go buy and Evo 8" is useless and freakin annoying.

KiL
This is exactly how I feel. Leave us tuner's and just regular old people that'd like more power the hell alone geez .As mean as some people are about telling us not to bother Sounds like anti-scion people but to actually be coming from a scion owner , man that hurts. Thanks Kil!!!
Side note ,If I was a lucky ___ spoiled lil brat with daddyand mommy bought STi I would no way even look at a scion , lol , If only. Those are awesome cars but not very atainable to most. Although overlooked I surely respect those lil rich guys , well their cars at least.

there's alot to be said about how much fun it is to drive a car that isn't really fast. it's nice to be able to be able to drive a car at or close to its limits on the streets.

You settled nothing.... If you want to be a poser then go ahead and throw alot of money into your Scion and try to make an econo-box go fast. You will end up with nothing more than what you started with. The only reason it will be faster is because your wallet wil be that much lighter.

So you can believe all the aftermarket tuners hype about their products and their promise of amazing performance.

If you buy an STI, you will have a car that performs... handles and is designed to go fast. If you mod up your Scion, you will have another econobox that is still slow and not designed to be anything else.

Thats what we need is more econo boxes with coffee cans running around trying to impress corvette owners...

No thanks.... I'll drive my box the way it was intended... in the right lane..

Yeah, but the point hes trying to make is that if a person wants to do that, then dont crap all over him.

Bottom line is that we all love the box, and we should respect eachothers different tastes and ideas on what they want to do to THEIR box.

Yeah, but the point hes trying to make is that if a person wants to do that, then dont crap all over him.

Bottom line is that we all love the box, and we should respect eachothers different tastes and ideas on what they want to do to THEIR box.
My thoughts exactly :clap: :clap:

Yeah, but the point hes trying to make is that if a person wants to do that, then dont crap all over him.

Bottom line is that we all love the box, and we should respect eachothers different tastes and ideas on what they want to do to THEIR box.
My thoughts exactly :clap: :clap:

Word!

I agree with you KingLou. Mc Bain must have a STI :)

You settled nothing.... If you want to be a poser then go ahead and throw alot of money into your Scion and try to make an econo-box go fast. You will end up with nothing more than what you started with. The only reason it will be faster is because your wallet wil be that much lighter.

So you can believe all the aftermarket tuners hype about their products and their promise of amazing performance.

If you buy an STI, you will have a car that performs... handles and is designed to go fast. If you mod up your Scion, you will have another econobox that is still slow and not designed to be anything else.

Thats what we need is more econo boxes with coffee cans running around trying to impress corvette owners...

No thanks.... I'll drive my box the way it was intended... in the right lane..

He's got a point. The last thing I want to happen to the box is for it to get all riced out like all the damn civic's out there. (Thats why I sold my civic and got the box in the first place.) I know that everyone has their own right to do what they want, I just hope people dont ruin that right by making it a tin can spectacle like every other wannabe racer "ricer" does.

If everyone is thinking the same, then someone isn't thinking.........

I'm just curious why some seem overly concerned about what someone else wants to do to their box. To each their own. :relief:

Thats what we need is more econo boxes with coffee cans running around trying to impress corvette owners...


Real tuners don't use coffee can mufflers. Just ask the C4 Corvette I met on a 4 lane just before the fall... he knows exactly what my 2.5" raw aluminized steel pipe looks like. He knows my tail lights quite well too.

Case in point, I'm going to make ANY car I drive into something it wasn't intended for. I could care less what someone like you has to say. You either can't afford it, don't have the know-how, or just plain don't have the balls. End of story.

You settled nothing.... If you want to be a poser then go ahead and throw alot of money into your Scion and try to make an econo-box go fast. You will end up with nothing more than what you started with. The only reason it will be faster is because your wallet wil be that much lighter.

So you can believe all the aftermarket tuners hype about their products and their promise of amazing performance.

If you buy an STI, you will have a car that performs... handles and is designed to go fast. If you mod up your Scion, you will have another econobox that is still slow and not designed to be anything else.

Thats what we need is more econo boxes with coffee cans running around trying to impress corvette owners...

No thanks.... I'll drive my box the way it was intended... in the right lane..

This is the exact CRAP KingLou started this thread for. His point broken to it's most raw form is be constructive with your posts, not destructive.

If you don't like what someone does to their car, don't look at it. It's not yours. It doesn't represent you.

Will someone please fix the way "persuit" is spelled. It is really starting to bug me. It's pUrsuit (without the capitol). :pray: :pray:

that..and "petal" from "petal to the metal" in the first post..its "pedal"
end of English lesson-rant on

jdaniels im feelin ya bro
[/quote]

jdaniels im feelin ya bro


Thats sounds kinda personal.http://www.thekirkhams.com/avs/naughty.gif

[quote=McBain]Thats what we need is more econo boxes with coffee cans running around trying to impress corvette owners...


Real tuners don't use coffee can mufflers. Just ask the C4 Corvette I met on a 4 lane just before the fall... he knows exactly what my 2.5" raw aluminized steel pipe looks like. He knows my tail lights quite well too.

/quote]

One question... Did the corvette owner even know you were racing... ? C'mon... get real... or maybe he was going in the other direction and you just thought you beat him.....
Give it up man.

You settled nothing.... If you want to be a poser then go ahead and throw alot of money into your Scion and try to make an econo-box go fast. You will end up with nothing more than what you started with. The only reason it will be faster is because your wallet wil be that much lighter.

So you can believe all the aftermarket tuners hype about their products and their promise of amazing performance.

If you buy an STI, you will have a car that performs... handles and is designed to go fast. If you mod up your Scion, you will have another econobox that is still slow and not designed to be anything else.

Thats what we need is more econo boxes with coffee cans running around trying to impress corvette owners...

No thanks.... I'll drive my box the way it was intended... in the right lane..

This is the exact CRAP KingLou started this thread for. His point broken to it's most raw form is be constructive with your posts, not destructive.

If you don't like what someone does to their car, don't look at it. It's not yours. It doesn't represent you.

My point is to be constructive with the facts... not destructive with the BS.. like people telling everyone on here that his 2.5 inch exhaust is now sticking it to corvettes... in his dreams...
I'm not against modding.. just against all the BS about making the scions fast... you can make them louder, even funnier looking than they are stock... even a few more ponies.. but beating corvettes and other respectable cars.... GET REAL!

The Scions are great little cars for what they are... but they are terrible for what they are not.

I agree with you KingLou. Mc Bain must have a STI :)

No I don't have an STI, but I do know they are pretty quick from the factory. With a bit more boost they can be made real fast.
But it is already fast from the factory... unlike the Scion which some here think is in the same class....

Good post 8)

I will admit that I have said the "you bought the wrong car..." phrase. That said, I plan on bolting on a few power adders myself. Why? Maybe a little better mpg, maybe a little more kick in the pants. It's fun, too.
I think the whole purpose of modding (and websites that discuss modding :lol: ) is to have fun. If you're havin' fun modding your xA or xB, great! Join the club!

Finally the voice of reason ! ! ! :bow: :bow: :bow:



McBain is right abou the BS ... tooo dang much of it. I once owned an Escort with 540hp that owned most roads and emarrassed nearly all V8s. Yes, it was a cosworth. :eyebrow: I read the posts of the folks wanting to race the xA or xB and wonder "What are they thinking." :loser: I hope they are racing another no power econo car. Outside of spending another 15-20 grand, high power is an illusion.

On the other hand ... KingLou is also correct. :clap: If you are into the modification of your wonderful little Scion, then go for it. I love my xA :love: and see the potential for thousands of modifications. I also have the experience to know what is beyond the possible (unless I win the lottery). :silly:

To use the immortal words "Can't we all just get along" and be happy with our own modification plans. Let's also join the real world and leave fantasy land behind.

Finally the voice of reason ! ! ! :bow: :bow: :bow:



McBain is right abou the BS ... tooo dang much of it. I once owned an Escort with 540hp that owned most roads and emarrassed nearly all V8s. Yes, it was a cosworth. :eyebrow: I read the posts of the folks wanting to race the xA or xB and wonder "What are they thinking." :loser: I hope they are racing another no power econo car. Outside of spending another 15-20 grand, high power is an illusion.

On the other hand ... KingLou is also correct. :clap: If you are into the modification of your wonderful little Scion, then go for it. I love my xA :love: and see the potential for thousands of modifications. I also have the experience to know what is beyond the possible (unless I win the lottery). :silly:

To use the immortal words "Can't we all just get along" and be happy with our own modification plans. Let's also join the real world and leave fantasy land behind.

In a small car like this 200hp will make it a pretty damned quick street car and Thats as far as alot of people want.

Finally the voice of reason ! ! ! :bow: :bow: :bow:



McBain is right abou the BS ... tooo dang much of it. I once owned an Escort with 540hp that owned most roads and emarrassed nearly all V8s. Yes, it was a cosworth. :eyebrow: I read the posts of the folks wanting to race the xA or xB and wonder "What are they thinking." :loser: I hope they are racing another no power econo car. Outside of spending another 15-20 grand, high power is an illusion.

On the other hand ... KingLou is also correct. :clap: If you are into the modification of your wonderful little Scion, then go for it. I love my xA :love: and see the potential for thousands of modifications. I also have the experience to know what is beyond the possible (unless I win the lottery). :silly:

To use the immortal words "Can't we all just get along" and be happy with our own modification plans. Let's also join the real world and leave fantasy land behind.

In a small car like this 200hp will make it a pretty damned quick street car and Thats as far as alot of people want.

200hp.. at what cost? What about the rest of the cars capabilities.. like tranny, brakes, suspension, handling?
So now you spent a fortune for $200hp from a 1.5l engine.. So now the rest of the car is not up to the added hp. Now what?
Not to mention warranty issues, emissions, insurance problems when you lose control and crash..., etc..

Wouldn't it be better to just buy a capale car in the first place?

Mods are fine within reason... just dont expect much.. and remember.... you can polish a turd till the cows come home... but its still a turd.

Much thanks to the spelling police. You are great public servants.

*indicated errors corrected*

KiL

no matter what i drive, i try to make mine the baddest of its breed....
so IF i had bought a STI i still would have puched its limits..
even if i bought a Caddy, i would be squezzing a supercharger under the hood.....

why is it you think scions are not worthy of tuning?
to all those that say we should not tune OUR OWN cars, yours better be bone stock (no intake, header, sway bars....). otherwise you are a tuner too, just not as much as us...

Finally the voice of reason ! ! ! :bow: :bow: :bow:



McBain is right abou the BS ... tooo dang much of it. I once owned an Escort with 540hp that owned most roads and emarrassed nearly all V8s. Yes, it was a cosworth. :eyebrow: I read the posts of the folks wanting to race the xA or xB and wonder "What are they thinking." :loser: I hope they are racing another no power econo car. Outside of spending another 15-20 grand, high power is an illusion.

On the other hand ... KingLou is also correct. :clap: If you are into the modification of your wonderful little Scion, then go for it. I love my xA :love: and see the potential for thousands of modifications. I also have the experience to know what is beyond the possible (unless I win the lottery). :silly:

To use the immortal words "Can't we all just get along" and be happy with our own modification plans. Let's also join the real world and leave fantasy land behind.

In a small car like this 200hp will make it a pretty damned quick street car and Thats as far as alot of people want.

200hp.. at what cost? What about the rest of the cars capabilities.. like tranny, brakes, suspension, handling?
So now you spent a fortune for $200hp from a 1.5l engine.. So now the rest of the car is not up to the added hp. Now what?
Not to mention warranty issues, emissions, insurance problems when you lose control and crash..., etc..

Wouldn't it be better to just buy a capale car in the first place?

Mods are fine within reason... just dont expect much.. and remember.... you can polish a turd till the cows come home... but its still a turd.
Never did I say 1.5.And everything but rotors , pads , and clutch on a 1.5 with 200hp would be just fine.

Finally the voice of reason ! ! ! :bow: :bow: :bow:



McBain is right abou the BS ... tooo dang much of it. I once owned an Escort with 540hp that owned most roads and emarrassed nearly all V8s. Yes, it was a cosworth. :eyebrow: I read the posts of the folks wanting to race the xA or xB and wonder "What are they thinking." :loser: I hope they are racing another no power econo car. Outside of spending another 15-20 grand, high power is an illusion.

On the other hand ... KingLou is also correct. :clap: If you are into the modification of your wonderful little Scion, then go for it. I love my xA :love: and see the potential for thousands of modifications. I also have the experience to know what is beyond the possible (unless I win the lottery). :silly:

To use the immortal words "Can't we all just get along" and be happy with our own modification plans. Let's also join the real world and leave fantasy land behind.

In a small car like this 200hp will make it a pretty damned quick street car and Thats as far as alot of people want.

200hp.. at what cost? What about the rest of the cars capabilities.. like tranny, brakes, suspension, handling?
So now you spent a fortune for $200hp from a 1.5l engine.. So now the rest of the car is not up to the added hp. Now what?
Not to mention warranty issues, emissions, insurance problems when you lose control and crash..., etc..

Wouldn't it be better to just buy a capale car in the first place?

Mods are fine within reason... just dont expect much.. and remember.... you can polish a turd till the cows come home... but its still a turd.
Never did I say 1.5.And everything but rotors , pads , and clutch on a 1.5 with 200hp would be just fine.

Haha.. everything would be fine for about 10 minutes or 10 miles, whichever comes first...

Bullsh*t and you know it , what wouldnt hold up? The tranny allthough having crappy gear ratios coul hold the power. The suspensions wouldnt take too much more of a beating , nothing a nice set of coilovers couldnt fix , or hell just perf shocks and good springs.

Bullsh*t and you know it , what wouldnt hold up? The tranny allthough having crappy gear ratios coul hold the power. The suspensions wouldnt take too much more of a beating , nothing a nice set of coilovers couldnt fix , or hell just perf shocks and good springs.

The car is not designed to handle twice the HP than it was designed for.. get real...

I see you already ditched the 1.5.. now you need a clutch, brakes, etc.... so why not buy a real car designed to handle 200hp... guess what, they even come with a 200HP engine! Imagine that..
But I suppose you know more than the designers do... so have fun with your bastardized box and enjoy fixing it every ten minutes... and dont forget to slow down for those corners and brake early and ... oh nevermind... you wouldnt understand anyway.

Bullsh*t and you know it , what wouldnt hold up? The tranny allthough having crappy gear ratios coul hold the power. The suspensions wouldnt take too much more of a beating , nothing a nice set of coilovers couldnt fix , or hell just perf shocks and good springs.

The car is not designed to handle twice the HP than it was designed for.. get real...

I see you already ditched the 1.5.. now you need a clutch, brakes, etc.... so why not buy a real car designed to handle 200hp... guess what, they even come with a 200HP engine! Imagine that..
But I suppose you know more than the designers do... so have fun with your bastardized box and enjoy fixing it every ten minutes... and dont forget to slow down for those corners and brake early and ... oh nevermind... you wouldnt understand anyway.
Never belittle me. Thats why when I put in my other motor a new tranny and new brakes will be used. In such a small low power vehicle it's not about double the horsepower , it's only 100 more hp. my goal for the car is 185whp. Think what you wish just let us do what we want. May I ask are you an engineer?
Why not buy a 'real" car? Insurance , Initial purchase price and STYLE!!!Oh and all the standard features. If I could afford both the price and insurance rates of a hi-po car I would have one. Let me guess now your going to say the money spent will make up for the low price , well yes and no , the swap should cost me about 3-4 thousand , so.... that is alot cheaper in my book.

:silly: Wow someone is digging a hole for themselves. I'll just sit back and grab a drink :lalala: :lalala:

Some people just have to beat everyone down with thier own stupidity, then when everyone gives up on arguing with them they think they "won" the argument.

I like the whole "its an econobox, it will never be fast" Depends on what you think of as fast. of course for some people going the speed limit is too fast and they refuse to stay in the right lane.

Depends on what you think of as fast. of course for some people going the speed limit is too fast and they refuse to stay in the right lane.True that , man , always when it's damn near impossibly for you to get out of their way .

...for all.

I continually hear things like "if you wanted a fast car, you shouldn't have gotten an xb/xa," and "Why bother, these cars aren't meant to go fast?"

I will concede this one point to those people: If some newb thinks he's gonna spend 3.5k on a turbo/supercharger kit.......and get 225 hp (that will last for more than a run or two down the track).............yeah, he's looking at the wrong car. Fact of life.....period......end of story on that one.

But....what a lot of individuals around here need to understand is that the simple fact that these cars are NOT made to go fast is part of the reason why being able to MAKE them go fast IS such an awesome idea.

Case in point. Some teenage kid can get an STI for his birthday. Right off the bat he's got a fast car. He can work a summer job........pop a few grand for some mods.........and have a really fast car. So he's got a fast car............fun to drive.............................and yet he's one in a billion other people with fast STIs. Where is the exclusivity in that? Everyone on the road expects his car to be fast. When he puts the pedal to the metal, and screams off down the road.........no one is surprised. Big deal. Ho hum......another fast STI.

Taking an xB/xA and making it fast is NOT EASY and it is NOT CHEAP. So for the few and far between who have made it happen, you are gods among Scion owners. Why? Because not any old person can do it. YOU are setting a precedent as opposed to simply matching an easily achievable norm. It took work, effort, time, and money on your part to be one of few......and that is respectable.........and COOL!

Personally.........I'd be far more impressed with a Scion that can run a 14 in the quarter than a STI that can run a 12.5.

And then.......there's the people that love the Scions. They love the way they look.......they love the price.......the love the features........they love that it's a Japanese made Toyota. But.......they're a bit disappointed in the power. They're looking for a bit more kick in the pants...........a reasonable horsepower increase. This shouldn't be too much to ask.

So the overall message here is..........for the people that want to get a bit more power out of their xA/xB.............and those who want to take it to the limit....................LEAVE THEM THE HELL ALONE! Correcting unrealistic expectation is one thing (like, "hey, what kind of bolts ons do I need to get over 200 hp)............but constantly having to say dumb crap like "Why are you bothering trying to make an econo car fast.......go buy and Evo 8" is useless and freakin annoying.

KiL

somebody likes those dots.....................................................

but yes i agree

Yes.....I do like the dots. It is part of my "typing like I talk" habit. The number of dots reflects in a relative sense the amount I'd pause when actually speaking those words. It's just a thing of mine.

KiL

You settled nothing.... If you want to be a poser then go ahead and throw alot of money into your Scion and try to make an econo-box go fast. You will end up with nothing more than what you started with. The only reason it will be faster is because your wallet wil be that much lighter.

So you can believe all the aftermarket tuners hype about their products and their promise of amazing performance.

If you buy an STI, you will have a car that performs... handles and is designed to go fast. If you mod up your Scion, you will have another econobox that is still slow and not designed to be anything else.

Thats what we need is more econo boxes with coffee cans running around trying to impress corvette owners...



No thanks.... I'll drive my box the way it was intended... in the right lane..



hey hows it going man....i support your statment about buying another car. that i do agree w/, but if you didnt want to read the "search" for power that people are looking for, then just simply dont read it. honestly man, is it really worth that time n effort for you to think all this out? just leave the people be and let them have their fun. This is what a forum is for. to communicate and enjoy the fact taht we own the same car/cars. Theres plenty other sections of this forum that you can read and enjoy that would be of interest of you. and yes, i am a former sports car owner myself. 500whp daily driven sc300 w/ a 1jzgte. so i know where u come from about owning a real life fast car. so yeah man just chill out. let these guys have their fun

Finally the voice of reason ! ! ! :bow: :bow: :bow:



McBain is right abou the BS ... tooo dang much of it. I once owned an Escort with 540hp that owned most roads and emarrassed nearly all V8s. Yes, it was a cosworth. :eyebrow: I read the posts of the folks wanting to race the xA or xB and wonder "What are they thinking." :loser: I hope they are racing another no power econo car. Outside of spending another 15-20 grand, high power is an illusion.

On the other hand ... KingLou is also correct. :clap: If you are into the modification of your wonderful little Scion, then go for it. I love my xA :love: and see the potential for thousands of modifications. I also have the experience to know what is beyond the possible (unless I win the lottery). :silly:

To use the immortal words "Can't we all just get along" and be happy with our own modification plans. Let's also join the real world and leave fantasy land behind.

In a small car like this 200hp will make it a pretty damned quick street car and Thats as far as alot of people want.

200hp.. at what cost? What about the rest of the cars capabilities.. like tranny, brakes, suspension, handling?
So now you spent a fortune for $200hp from a 1.5l engine.. So now the rest of the car is not up to the added hp. Now what?
Not to mention warranty issues, emissions, insurance problems when you lose control and crash..., etc..

Wouldn't it be better to just buy a capale car in the first place?

Mods are fine within reason... just dont expect much.. and remember.... you can polish a turd till the cows come home... but its still a turd.

Hey.. don't call my box a turd... :)
There is much truth about just buying a fast car in the first place... but there is also fun in doing mods and some gains to be had... but the box racing vettes? I can tell you from experience that it wouldn't be much of a race...

Let's face it ... we will just have to agree to disagree on the value of modifications and power expectations from our cars.

I plan to continue my modification because I enjoy it. I also feel most cars are safe from my cars mind numbing speed.

Let people spend there, time, money, blood sweat and tears on whatever they want.

once upon a time the econo civic ran 16's someone slapped a turbo and some minor work and dropped it to 15's, did fuel tuning and dropped it to low 14's, some suspension and they are into 13's.... 8 years later they are shooting for the 10, 9, 8 and 7 second fwd barriers, something that was unheard of 8 years previously...

as a whole the few pioneers will push it till they run out of money... is it cheap? no, can they afford it? maybe... but they did something in life, maybe it might seem small to you, but they were there to push the sport...

Granted I never hope to see posers rocking the xa's and xb's with fart cans... but that is why we are here to help educate the unknowing about rice...

Try to get the modifications as tasteful as possible, if we (the scion community) are doing tasteful mods, people will respect us... look at the wrx guys and rsx, not too much rice... at least the ones around here...

if you have a fart can on your car, no problem, but i hope you are running 12's or better... out of a 1.5L

There are those who like working on their car just as much as driving it. The bigger the challenge, the greater the satisfaction.

You can pick up the phone and call China or you can build your own armature radio, study weather patterns, know where the sun is in its 11 year cycle and wake up at 4 am so that you can bounce your RF off of the F2 layer of the ionosphere. One method takes a few seconds to dial the phone, the other takes a license from the FCC and possibly thousands of $ in equipment. Is the later method stupid? There are electrical engineers, professors and enthusiasts all over the world who would argue that it is an effort and $ well spent. It just depends on if you like to exercise your brain cells as well as your spend your money.

Home cooked meals always taste the best.

Does McBain even have an xA/xB?

I can't believe I just read all that.

What if I kicked my box?

That would make more sense than this conversation...

I can't believe I just read all that.

What if I kicked my box?

That would make more sense than this conversation...


So you must feel like you have the IQ of cat crap for having read this whole thread.

It's not just a feeling.

Next time you have a dumbass comment.............wait until I ask for it.

KiL

I can't believe I just read all that.

What if I kicked my box?

That would make more sense than this conversation...


So you must feel like you have the IQ of cat crap for having read this whole thread.

It's not just a feeling.

Next time you have a dumbass comment.............wait until I ask for it.

KiL

His IQ may be cat crrap as you stated, but it is still greater than yours for thinking you put an end to this debate. The only thing you did was to show your ignorance about performance gains on mods that do little or nothing.

Does McBain even have an xA/xB?

Yes I have a 05 Xb in TMC. I bought it as a delivery vehicle for my shop. Great mileage and its fully enclosed so I don't get the cargo wet.
Some proof maybe is needed, The jack is sepreate from the spare tire... It is under the front drivers seat.... I bet many other owners dont know that...

Personally..
i just want to make my car hum correctly when i'm going like 90 (for the state troopers out there... i'm exaggerating...)...
slightly better acceleration would be hot too...

why don't i just get a "real" speedy car?
style... initial price... insurance... gas mileage... multiple ppl using the car... interior room... hauling capacity...

the box is a multi-function vehicle. Sometimes i'd like it to have a little oomph... sometimes when i road trip.. i might drive granny style to max out gas... or i may push the limit.. i wanna be able to do both

except for the way too much i spent on an intake.. the power mods have been worth it... drive is smoother overall. if you are truly thrifty... you can put together a good amount of useful power mods for only a few hundred... add that to the initial low price... and you'll still be coming out ahead of a "real" performance car (and stilll getting better mileage)...

(edit: i should clarify here before i get jumped... by coming out ahead i meant pricewise)


anyhow... on another note
in all seriousness ...
does it really bother you ppl (you know who i'm talking to now) that other ppl are "wasting" money on mods?... does it keep you up nights thinking "oh man all those cars with useless mods"? or does it bother you that you are not the one "posing"? Are you that insecure about your vehicle and finances that you feel the need to denounce others?

b/c otherwise, why the heck do you care?
Its one thing to say that a mod has no value, or is worthless and to give advice against getting it.
Its quite another to slam someone for wanting to fix up their cars or to talk trash about the original vehicles.
Let ppl waste their money if that's how you feel.. they're helping keep the industry afloat... an industry which all you performance junkies benefit more from anyway.

Offer knowledge not attitude...
and this board will be a happier place.

oh yeah...while i'm on the soapbox... here's something i never understood also...
why tell someone to get another brand new vehicle.. when its obvious they already have one?

like they;re just going to go.. "hmm you're right i'll trade in my box right now"... obviously when purchasing they decided to go with the box for reasons other than power...

i think most ppl just want to fix it up to bring it up to par with the other econo cars they skipped over to get the box (or egg)

Very well said Chimmy3 :bow: . But as you know there will be someone with something negative to say.

I hate to add to this little tiff.. but alas, I shall.

I came from a 404awhp/414awtq 02 WRX Wagon. Yeah its a wagon so what.. even had the silly little license plate border that said "You just got beat by a wagon". Anyway, after pumping nearly more money than I owed on the car; I got it to where I wanted it. The thing would roll out on numerous cars, but it still wasn't 'fast' to me.

I grew up driving a 408 cubic inch stroker 1986 Mustang GT, I put the car together from 11 years old on up to when I was 17, it treated me well, and it never let me down. Then I went to a 1995 Saab 900 SE Convertible, I got it as a trade off for the mustang. I gave the dude the stang he gave me the saab. Great little car, but meh.

From there I got rear-ended by some fool who was going 65mph in a 35; then came the subie.. again great vehicle, impressive for what its worth, but its more of a silly car than anything (plus the service sucked from the dealer, hence the reason I went ahead and learned the car inside and out, taking apart EVERYTHING and putting it back together to where I wanted it to be).

My point is this; I got rid of the subaru this past saturday and picked up an Xb with my love. She and I will be sharing the car and all this and that. Let me tell you, for what the car is worth, it is a perfect little vehicle for every day driving and cruising. I would stray from the 'tuner' label though. Indeed, there is a wide aftermarket for the car; but I wouldn't go that far as to say its a tuner car. Just like the wrx, sti, evo, etc; its a cult car. You either love it or hate it, and if you are one of the many that do love it, you stick to your guns and back it up for all its worth, even going as far as quoting, oh "John/jane doe has one that is running 10s in the quarter yo!" -- ehh. no. This isn't meant to be a ricky-racer riceboy/girl vehicle.

Just my two cents and experience so far.

-G

I can't believe I just read all that.

What if I kicked my box?

That would make more sense than this conversation...


So you must feel like you have the IQ of cat crap for having read this whole thread.

It's not just a feeling.

Next time you have a dumbass comment.............wait until I ask for it.

KiL

His IQ may be cat crrap as you stated, but it is still greater than yours for thinking you put an end to this debate. The only thing you did was to show your ignorance about performance gains on mods that do little or nothing.




Oh really.............read my post again...............then read it one more time. Tell me where........ANYWHERE in my post that I was showing ignorance about performance gains for mods that do little or nothing.

I'll be waiting patiently.

KiL

McBain, I don't know where you get off flaming anyone.

King Lou made a great point, if you want to go back and read the first post again. People shouldn't just come out ant tell people who want to make their cars faster that they should just go and buy a faster car.

I'm pretty sure a lot of us have seen that video of the Dodge Caravan smoking the crap out of the Viper in the quarter mile.

The Scion was not made to go fast. Ever. However, if someone wants to spend the $8,000-$12,000 properly beefing up the internals and putting a monster booster under the hood, then more power to them.

All Lou was trying to do was point out that we shouldn't be so quick to burn those who want to make their Scions faster. Is anyone going to do it? Probably not. Are we still going to have a ton of posts asking about bolt-on turbos from people who have no idea what they're talking about and have to deal with noobs who don't know engines? Absolutely, but that's what we're here for. To help educate and make people feel welcome.

I'd rather have 100 newbie posts saying "where can I get a turbo for my xA?" than 1 of your stupid flame posts where you're being a dick.

hey its druuuuuuuu whats up man!!!!!

I just have to add, the trogdor avatar = teh badassness. That is all :).

BOO YAH...nice closer Drew

and you just don't know what has been done to scions so these comments are worthless coming from someone who knows ABSOLUTELY nothing about the capabilities

McBain, I don't know where you get off flaming anyone.

King Lou made a great point, if you want to go back and read the first post again. People shouldn't just come out ant tell people who want to make their cars faster that they should just go and buy a faster car.

I'm pretty sure a lot of us have seen that video of the Dodge Caravan smoking the crap out of the Viper in the quarter mile.

The Scion was not made to go fast. Ever. However, if someone wants to spend the $8,000-$12,000 properly beefing up the internals and putting a monster booster under the hood, then more power to them.

All Lou was trying to do was point out that we shouldn't be so quick to burn those who want to make their Scions faster. Is anyone going to do it? Probably not. Are we still going to have a ton of posts asking about bolt-on turbos from people who have no idea what they're talking about and have to deal with noobs who don't know engines? Absolutely, but that's what we're here for. To help educate and make people feel welcome.

I'd rather have 100 newbie posts saying "where can I get a turbo for my xA?" than 1 of your stupid flame posts where you're being a dick.

EXACTLY my point. Thanks drew.

Would I personally dump the money into making an xB fast? Probably not.......unless I just had a bunch of disposable income......................then I'd do it for the fun factor. And I may just have a bunch of disposable income someday......unless I fail out of dental school (don't plan on it). Maybe 15 years down the road I'll have a smokin box.......if I hold on to it for that long.

My point is.......to anyone that DOES, I will :bow: to you. Why? Because it is always cool to see the car the nobody expected to go fast actually go fast!

I also made it clear in my original post that when all the newbs come knockin about how many BMW M3s they are going to smoke with their new axle back.........it's ok to correct them.

That's different than someone always having to comment "Why are you trying to make a Scion go fast......they weren't made to go fast!?"

Why are they trying to make a Scion go fast? Because they WANT to...............and that's all the damn reason anyone needs.

KiL

Let people spend there, time, money, blood sweat and tears on whatever they want.

once upon a time the econo civic ran 16's someone slapped a turbo and some minor work and dropped it to 15's, did fuel tuning and dropped it to low 14's, some suspension and they are into 13's.... 8 years later they are shooting for the 10, 9, 8 and 7 second fwd barriers, something that was unheard of 8 years previously...

as a whole the few pioneers will push it till they run out of money... is it cheap? no, can they afford it? maybe... but they did something in life, maybe it might seem small to you, but they were there to push the sport...


thats exactly what i was thinkin from the start of this thread. many cars were never meant to be tuner cars. if you look at honda, they arent even promoting racing or even providing factory aftermarket parts. the thing is that with almost all cars there is the potential to be relatively fast. a crx was a 92hp car that was meant for economy. now my buddy has one running street class that does 10.4's all day with 2 seats, dash, stock body, and all glass. who woulda thought it could do that. all it took was a motor swap, FI, and lots of tuning...and yes..lots of money.

now to the scion...it isnt meant to be fast. but why not try. ^^^^we are here to push the sport. if no one ever tries it, it will never be done.

are you going to outright call me stupid without knowing me just because i want to make my car faster? its the fact that it is not fast and never meant to be that is a CHALLENGE. call me stupid for modding my car, but it was worth the look on other people's faces when my car ran a 16.0. i know its not THAT fast...ive owned faster..but its the fact that i shaved over 1.5 seconds off that was fun.

how about this...people that dont like modding a scion for power...stay out of the power hungry forums. its that simple. let us do what we want.

Why are they trying to make a Scion go fast? Because they WANT to...............and that's all the damn reason anyone needs. :clap: :bow:

i must agree with all

but i have to say that the tragic amout of bad info here is gonna lead some kiddie to destroy his car and waste his parents money

i have no delusions of grandeur about my vehicle

but i admire those trying to responsibly "push" the sport

If a kid is out spending his parents money I hope he ruins his car multiple times , maybe then his parents will learn not to spoil their little bastard kids.

i must agree with all

but i have to say that the tragic amout of bad info here is gonna lead some kiddie to destroy his car and waste his parents money

i have no delusions of grandeur about my vehicle

but i admire those trying to responsibly "push" the sport

eh? what bad info would that be?.... I just follow everyone else... and try not to be the guinea pig...

true, most will listen if it sounds convincing
and others are there to back them up

by "here" i meant the internet in general
i camp @ ScionLife mostly, but I do frequent other boards
and they are just as easy to find and read and follow

I have a bad habit of wanting the world to be well informed about as much as possible, this (cars, Toyota specifiacally) is an area where I have some degree of knowledge
I do not know it all, No One Does
we all have attained our ideas and knowledge in different ways and that is what makes these outlets ( Forums ) so exciting to participate in
So What that the topic is about "how headlights look" or "will a JDM Yaris dome light fit?" It is the exchange of information that is fascinating, and sadly there is just as much or more bad info.
<--Born to Teach but not willing to get paid that little
and kids smell funny to me

I think of the xB as the Beetle was in it's early days here. It is a car that you can make almost anything you want with it, in reason. I think it is easier to make it look sharp and handle well than faster. It can be made faster, if anything has a motor it can be helped. I just think everyone should realize that not everyone cares what they think is important is important to everyone else.

My thoughts on my xB is that I would like to have about 60 foot pounds more torque and a lot more in the handling.

Man, I really really... REALLY love coming back to these forums... something to laugh at all the time... anyway... opinions are like @$$holes... everyone's got one... and everyone's gonna use one... if people are free to criticize about guys/girls wanting to make there xa/xb/tc fast then... go ahead and criticize... and if people are free to build their xa/xb/tc to go fast and don't give a rat's @$$ about the people criticizing them... then go ahead and build it... whether its all stock, all show, or all go... we do it to individualize ourselves... isn't that partly a reason why you guys bought a scion or whatever car you bought??? it should be the pursuit of good sportscarmanship (is that a real word??) ... just my $0.02.

It's not a real word but I pretty much agree.

I've always thought of "tuning" as being short for "Fine tuning". It's not about make them fast, it's about making them "faster".

Naw...it's about making it YOURS...that's why I could care less if people see my ____.

Naw...it's about making it YOURS...that's why I could care less if people see my ____.

Exactly, make your car an expression of yourself. Add to the looks, handling, power, sound or whatever makes you happy. If just keeping it clean is you bag then have the cleanest ride out there.

Okay, I don't normally post here, I'm mostly looking for tuning possibilities. However, the xA is a 2,300 lb. econobox that is totally ripe for tuning. C'mon people. It's totally apparent. Even stock, the handling possibilities are obvious...I'm taking my daily offramp at 50mph w/a posted 20mph yellow sign. Sure, the tires are squealing, but it's fairly impressive. I think, beside getting 200hp out of it, the light weight is its ally here. Am I the only one who read that thread where the Scion xA actually passed that Nissan Skyline on the track at Mountain View (or whatever that track is called) in Sonoma? That's what sold me on the xA actually.

I have only installed rims/tires, but I'm totally impressed. My brother has a Porsche boxster, and he was pretty dang excited about the xA when I whipped it around the offramp. He was saying I'd give him a run for his money. He was probably being polite, but nonetheless, he was impressed. I'll be installing the Injen short ram in a week, and the Borla cat-back will follow when it's available (I got an email from them today, and they said a cat-back is in the works). So, given the lightweight, I feel a formidable lil car is to be had. Sure, a corvette in a straight will kill us, but cornerwise, there's no solid argument w/a lil 2300 lb. bullet w/a few mods. So, let's not be so hard on the lil econobox, it is what it is, but fun is to be had w/it, no doubt.

That's all for now. I think most will agree w/this post. Thanks for listening.

Man!!! Do what you do. If want to pursue making an xB fast then you do you . If you want to stay with a stock engine with some rims and a system then you do you. If you want to rock the xB stock then you do you. That's what the xB was made for... self expression. We should enjoy all the endeavours that other xB owners try to accomplish with their xB's. Everyone has their own flavor. I would love to see a supecharged xB blow past supercharged Honda's, Neons, and etc. 8)

GOD Bless.

Okay, I don't normally post here, I'm mostly looking for tuning possibilities. However, the xA is a 2,300 lb. econobox that is totally ripe for tuning. C'mon people. It's totally apparent. Even stock, the handling possibilities are obvious...I'm taking my daily offramp at 50mph w/a posted 20mph yellow sign. Sure, the tires are squealing, but it's fairly impressive. I think, beside getting 200hp out of it, the light weight is its ally here. Am I the only one who read that thread where the Scion xA actually passed that Nissan Skyline on the track at Mountain View (or whatever that track is called) in Sonoma? That's what sold me on the xA actually.

I have only installed rims/tires, but I'm totally impressed. My brother has a Porsche boxster, and he was pretty dang excited about the xA when I whipped it around the offramp. He was saying I'd give him a run for his money. He was probably being polite, but nonetheless, he was impressed. I'll be installing the Injen short ram in a week, and the Borla cat-back will follow when it's available (I got an email from them today, and they said a cat-back is in the works). So, given the lightweight, I feel a formidable lil car is to be had. Sure, a corvette in a straight will kill us, but cornerwise, there's no solid argument w/a lil 2300 lb. bullet w/a few mods. So, let's not be so hard on the lil econobox, it is what it is, but fun is to be had w/it, no doubt.

That's all for now. I think most will agree w/this post. Thanks for listening.
thats exactly how i feel man, so go for it. and keep us updated :clap:

[quote=McBain]Thats what we need is more econo boxes with coffee cans running around trying to impress corvette owners...


Real tuners don't use coffee can mufflers. Just ask the C4 Corvette I met on a 4 lane just before the fall... he knows exactly what my 2.5" raw aluminized steel pipe looks like. He knows my tail lights quite well too.

/quote]

One question... Did the corvette owner even know you were racing... ? C'mon... get real... or maybe he was going in the other direction and you just thought you beat him.....
Give it up man.

:no: Come on man, drop the ignorant magazine racer attitude... I mean, damn, can I live?

Stock vs. Stock I stand no chance against a C4...

http://www.teamscionnortheast.com/myxb/xb.jpg
http://www.teamscionnortheast.com/myxb/xb2.jpg

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Damn bro, take those honeycomb out and show off that intercooler. Nice.

An xB taking out a C4? No offense man but i can't see that happening. Myself being one of the few people on this board with a boosted 1.5l i just can't see that ever happening. Hell my SR20DET powered 240sx that runs low 12's on the 1/4mi has a hard time beating C4's on the 1/4mi nevermind the highway cuz i'd get murdered. I'm not trying to doubt that your car may be fast but it can't be that fast, i'm sure other boosted xb owners will agree with me. I'm not try'n to pick a fight with you or anything but i mean c'mon lets be realistic.

But back on the subject;

If a person chooses to make his/her xb/xa faster than more power to ya and g'luck cuz it won't be easy or cheap.

-duey

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Damn bro, take those honeycomb out and show off that intercooler. Nice.

:P the pic was taken in August... I never bothered sharing since everyone has such horrible outlooks on forced induction. I've done one of everything to my car, and I was probably the first to do most of it... I normally don't share since very few will listen to me. Instead, people listen to rumors...

Hit me up if you have any questions people, if you drink Hatorade, go elsewhere.

An xB taking out a C4? No offense man but i can't see that happening. Myself being one of the few people on this board with a boosted 1.5l i just can't see that ever happening. Hell my SR20DET powered 240sx that runs low 12's on the 1/4mi has a hard time beating C4's on the 1/4mi nevermind the highway cuz i'd get murdered. I'm not trying to doubt that your car may be fast but it can't be that fast, i'm sure other boosted xb owners will agree with me. I'm not try'n to pick a fight with you or anything but i mean c'mon lets be realistic.

But back on the subject;

If a person chooses to make his/her xb/xa faster than more power to ya and g'luck cuz it won't be easy or cheap.

-duey

You have got to be kidding. C4's range from low 15s - HIGH 13's depending on the transmission and engine... your SR20DET powered 240 must not be running 12's if you have issues with C4's...

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/8/web/296000-296999/296453_119.jpg

feel free to come and test me on that one.



edit: ok so i did some quick google searching and found that you are right, fastest one's made stock went mid 13's. Apparently the one i race was far from stock.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/8/web/296000-296999/296453_119.jpg

feel free to come and test me on that one

I don't doubt you at all, I just doubt that you'd ever have a problem with a stock C4... ever...

shoot, i would give a stock c4 a good run....

one of these days i am gonna bump into you jd...
i'd love to talk shop with you and buy you a drink....

peace...

shoot, i would give a stock c4 a good run....

one of these days i am gonna bump into you jd...
i'd love to talk shop with you and buy you a drink....

peace...

I'm sure we will bump into each other... maybe we'll have to meet at Lebanon Valley Dragway to silence some haters :P

shoot, i would give a stock c4 a good run....

one of these days i am gonna bump into you jd...
i'd love to talk shop with you and buy you a drink....

peace...

I'm sure we will bump into each other... maybe we'll have to meet at Lebanon Valley Dragway to silence some haters :P

you got it...

i gotta see what you did...should be fun

jdaniels... so what kind of times are you running? How much boost... Give us some info.
I'm curious as to what the little 1.5L can do and handle. Tell us about your ride and what you've done..
Thanks

do believe the marketing idea behind Scion was h efact that you have the availability to customize as you wish, more so that most cars. So of course people who love to make their cars unique are drawn in, so dont blame them when they get drawn itno good marketing. Also all i hear is the box being mentioned, there is an Xa and tC model to buy.

xA is the same dude , and this is for xa/xb section , xa is only 15 pounds lighter , and slightly better handling,

Don't forget shorter and more areodynamic....

but imo not as stylish , j/k but still drag coef doesnt matter too much on 16- 14 second cars.

Handling on the xA is no better, and the weight difference is negligable... the drag coefficient is almost exactly the same too... odd... I say... lol

Handling on the xA is no better, and the weight difference is negligable... the drag coefficient is almost exactly the same too... odd... I say... lol
Depends on how hard you push it, and of course what you have done to it.. ;)
but it is Odd..

is the drag coefficient that simalar with the xB and xA?? I would've thought the xA would be much better since it does look a lot more aerodynamic.

looks are funny....you would not expect cars from the 50's to be that good, but they are...

the front of the xA, like the xB, is one giant Scoop with not enough outlet :)

looks more like a brick to me...hhaha