I saw this in the Turbo magazine. I think, you guy might be interested.


http://www.electricsupercharger.com/

It seems to be a cheap alternative to the real supercharger, with 1-1.7 psi of boost.

http://www.electricsupercharger.com/images/install/Scion_XB_1.5L_stock_w-text.jpg[/url]

Here is a quote from the website :

"Finally, unlike any other manufacturer of "bolt-on" performance additions, we GUARANTEE you will see AT LEAST a 4% increase in horsepower by adding the e-RAM on your intake or we will give you your money back!*"

How much hp did they get. i dont wanna hear a 4% in theory bull.

Yeah, I wish I knew. Although, they didn't dyno the scion one, they did dyno many cars.


http://www.electricsupercharger.com/dyno.shtml

The thing with these is..........I have a feeling the engine can move the air faster on its own than this fan could push it.........................so the fan would actually be an inhibition to air flow.

Do I have scientific data to back this up? No........but it is what I believe pending scientific data to suggest otherwise.

KiL

Here is a quote from the website :

"Finally, unlike any other manufacturer of "bolt-on" performance additions, we GUARANTEE you will see AT LEAST a 4% increase in horsepower by adding the e-RAM on your intake or we will give you your money back!*"

4% increase in HP... WOW! Where can I throw my money away to get this! These units are really not very effective... The drain on the engine from the alternator which powers the unit negates MOST of the benefit. A turbo is much more efficient because it uses exhaust gases which is basically free power.

these do work but only get us about 5hp...

(the stock alternator is 80 amps...normal darw while car is running is 38 amps...it has plenty to sapre without inducing a load...)

these are about 1/10 the price of a turbo....

if you want to tune, go ahead and try it...but its a lot of work for little result. just get a regular intake for about the same performance (and a better look)

Guys, if you have a chance, read the article in the link below:

http://www.electricsupercharger.com/technicaloverview.shtml

Those gains arent bad to me. but at around 300 , screw that .

It's crap.
Do some research into Bilge blowers.

if it's e-ram it is not a bilge blower. bilge type ones are completely fake but e-rams actually have some benefit.

They actually compare their product to other eletric blowers. Check this out:

http://www.electricsupercharger.com/buyersguide.shtml#eboostbasics1

seems convincing :ponder:

This is what they mentioned :

Regarding other "Electric boost" offerings like cheap plastic "turbo" looking devices or squirrel-cage ("leaf-blower" style) fans driven by a cheap electric motor:
Again, the concept of using an electrically driven "compressor" for boost is a sound concept, and again, the problem is that compressors are horrible at providing unrestricted air-flow unless they are constantly running at speeds that will also generate pressure. The "electric turbo" will have to be on all the time in order to not create restriction when not energized. This means it will have to use a low powered electric motor that won't draw any significant electrical energy so it won't overheat if used in constant duty.... thus... it won't draw enough electrical energy to generate any boost and will ultimately just restrict air-flow. Also, small plastic squirrel-cage fans cannot rotate at a high enough rate of speed to generate any pressure. This is because the forces exerted on the unit if it were to rotate at a high enough speed to generate pressure would cause the unit to self-destruct. It doesn't matter how powerful a motor is used with this type of cheap plastic fan.

Summary:
There is no "free lunch."
Regardless of what PSI is claimed by ANY maker of electric boost technology, what hp gains are claimed, or at what rpms the "fan" is claimed to rotate, the laws of air-flow dynamics require a specific amount of power to generate psi at a given flow rate. Anyone claiming to do what we are doing [Axial-Flow (in-line) fan used to generate HP on an internal combustion engine] is IN VIOLATION OF OUR PATENT, and has no access to the motor technology required for this application.. Also, anyone else using any other style of "fan" based boost claiming ANY HP gains on a car engine without a power source of AT LEAST 680WATTS (48 amps at 13.88 Volts) is LYING, and just ripping people off. [/b]

these do work but only get us about 5hp...

(the stock alternator is 80 amps...normal darw while car is running is 38 amps...it has plenty to sapre without inducing a load...)

these are about 1/10 the price of a turbo....

if you want to tune, go ahead and try it...but its a lot of work for little result. just get a regular intake for about the same performance (and a better look)

Every amp drawn is a LOAD on the engine.. there is no free lunch... the exchange of power to run this device is not worth the output... better off with a better breathing intake and realize a 2hp increase instead.

Intakes are about 4...... whp.

Intakes are about 4...... whp.

In your dreams... 4 flywheel HP maybe... not to the wheels

It works only at full throttle (which is less than 1% of my driving time), so it is not worth buying for regular driver like me :) , costwise. At least, it is good to know that someone actually make it work.

also check out their video, it's kinda cool :)

http://www.electricsupercharger.com/demovideos.shtml

5hp and $300 don't match. Waste of time, money and effort. Save up the money an buy a real supercharger.

Intakes are about 4...... whp.

In your dreams... 4 flywheel HP maybe... not to the wheels
Dude learn how to read dyno charts. Relax and let people do what they want.

Intakes are about 4...... whp.

In your dreams... 4 flywheel HP maybe... not to the wheels
Dude learn how to read dyno charts. Relax and let people do what they want.

Haha.. dynos ... they have an accuracy rate thats differs more than 5% for the SAME dyno between runs. Not to mention temp , baro, and other variables. I know, I used to have one in my shop. So you go ahead and believe the dyno charts and some advertisement... it will make you believe you have more power.

And don't worry, Im relaxed from all the laughing... Thanks!

Intakes are about 4...... whp.

In your dreams... 4 flywheel HP maybe... not to the wheels
Dude learn how to read dyno charts. Relax and let people do what they want.

Haha.. dynos ... they have an accuracy rate thats differs more than 5% for the SAME dyno between runs. Not to mention temp , baro, and other variables. I know, I used to have one in my shop. So you go ahead and believe the dyno charts and some advertisement... it will make you believe you have more power.

And don't worry, Im relaxed from all the laughing... Thanks!I'm getting the about 4whp from reading multiple dyno chrats from different intakes and different sources independent and company given.

these do work but only get us about 5hp...

(the stock alternator is 80 amps...normal darw while car is running is 38 amps...it has plenty to sapre without inducing a load...)

these are about 1/10 the price of a turbo....

if you want to tune, go ahead and try it...but its a lot of work for little result. just get a regular intake for about the same performance (and a better look)

The alternator is RATED at 80 amps. You are only using what is needed. So if normal draw is 38 amps, then adding to that will always induce more load regardless of the rating of the alternator. The maximum capacity of the alternator has no effect on this. The conservation of energy laws apply to any system, more power out has to mean more power in. So any addition to the draw on the electrical system means that the engine will have to use more power to keep up. As mentioned in a reply above, you would be better off with a super charger or turbo. But contrary to popular belief, the exhaust pressure used to move a turbo is not completey free. You are adding restriction to the exhaust system, which robs some power. Turbos are inherently more efficient however because they make better use of the power from the exhaust than the supercharger does from the power used by the engine to turn the belt drive.

These electric blowers are complete ripoffs, dont get fooled by them.

Here is a quote from the website :

"Finally, unlike any other manufacturer of "bolt-on" performance additions, we GUARANTEE you will see AT LEAST a 4% increase in horsepower by adding the e-RAM on your intake or we will give you your money back!*"

4% increase in HP... WOW! Where can I throw my money away to get this! These units are really not very effective... The drain on the engine from the alternator which powers the unit negates MOST of the benefit. A turbo is much more efficient because it uses exhaust gases which is basically free power.

Exhaust gasses are far from "free power" you have to consume gas to produce exhaust, and gas is alot more expensive then battery juice

snake oil!!!

Intakes are about 4...... whp.

In your dreams... 4 flywheel HP maybe... not to the wheels
Dude learn how to read dyno charts. Relax and let people do what they want.

Haha.. dynos ... they have an accuracy rate thats differs more than 5% for the SAME dyno between runs. Not to mention temp , baro, and other variables. I know, I used to have one in my shop. So you go ahead and believe the dyno charts and some advertisement... it will make you believe you have more power.

And don't worry, Im relaxed from all the laughing... Thanks!

Hey McBain..........I've been in contact with numerous performance shops who have done repeated dyno testing on different cold air intake systems for Scions.............and they all said the same thing, which is as follows:

"Tell that idiot McBain to shut up cause he's an annoying troll."

I'll take those results to the bank.

KiL

snake oil!!!

:rofl: that one caught me off guard....


hey MCBAIN,
if you had a dyno in your shop then you should know what works and doesn't.
so instead of being a hater why not help the community with usefull knowledge of performance products....

You guys might be able to try this for free, especially if you want to dyno your car. They said that if anyone can prove that it doesn't work, they will give a full refund and pay half of the dyno cost.

Intakes are about 4...... whp.

In your dreams... 4 flywheel HP maybe... not to the wheels
Dude learn how to read dyno charts. Relax and let people do what they want.

Haha.. dynos ... they have an accuracy rate thats differs more than 5% for the SAME dyno between runs. Not to mention temp , baro, and other variables. I know, I used to have one in my shop. So you go ahead and believe the dyno charts and some advertisement... it will make you believe you have more power.

And don't worry, Im relaxed from all the laughing... Thanks!

I haven't dynoed the box and I don't plan to. But I have had my Z06 dynoed at two different shops within the same week. Both on dynojet models. I wanted to get some baseline numbers while the car was all stock with 3K imles on it.
At the first shop I dynoed 368 rwhp ( I love this car!) each of the 3 pulls were different. The LS6 engine actually produces more power hot so my last run was the best.
The second shop with the same dyonjet which was just updated and calibrated, also had new sensors and I pulled a 363rwhp on my 2nd run. Similar weather during the week and both shops used a large fan to circulate air.
So there are differences between dynos even if they are the same model. At least from my experiences....

Here is a quote from the website :

"Finally, unlike any other manufacturer of "bolt-on" performance additions, we GUARANTEE you will see AT LEAST a 4% increase in horsepower by adding the e-RAM on your intake or we will give you your money back!*"

4% increase in HP... WOW! Where can I throw my money away to get this! These units are really not very effective... The drain on the engine from the alternator which powers the unit negates MOST of the benefit. A turbo is much more efficient because it uses exhaust gases which is basically free power.

Exhaust gasses are far from "free power" you have to consume gas to produce exhaust, and gas is alot more expensive then battery juice

You stated the obvious... He did say "basically free" power... there is a difference.. you still have to create the exhaust flow regardless of having a turbo or not. A turbo is a restriction in the exhaust path and is not a totally free source of power. Battery juice is not free as the alternator is under load to create the power for the blower... that load equates to powere loss and more fuel.

I saw this in the Turbo magazine. I think, you guy might be interested.


http://www.electricsupercharger.com/

It seems to be a cheap alternative to the real supercharger, with 1-1.7 psi of boost.

Cheap, and not terribly effective.

Let's say that it gives you 1 PSI of boost. Atmospheric pressure is about 15 PSI, so at best you will be putting 16 PSI into the engine.

The power an engine puts out depends upon the air you put in, and one PSI of boost means that you can put 16/15 as much air into the engine as you did before. The maximum power you get out will therefore be 108 (16/15) or 115 HP.

However, from this you have to subtract the power consumed by the blower, which comes from the alternator. The claim 38 amps draw, which is 38*14=532W or a bit less than one HP. This seems awfully low to me, as conventional superchargers take twenty times as much power to produce 5 PSI boost. In any case, your maximum horsepower gain would be 115-1-108 or 6 HP.

Now, this number seems respectable, but I have severe doubts that this device can supply 1PSI throughout the power range of the engine. Can it really supply the 75 liters per second of air under pressure that the engine needs?

Also, a continuous 38A additional draw on the alternator isn't something to take lightly. Yes, the alternator can provide that much current, but it is designed to produce it only for short periods to recharge the battery after the car is started. Supplying that kind of additional demand continuously invites electrical problems.

I saw this in the Turbo magazine. I think, you guy might be interested.


http://www.electricsupercharger.com/

It seems to be a cheap alternative to the real supercharger, with 1-1.7 psi of boost.

Cheap, and not terribly effective.

Let's say that it gives you 1 PSI of boost. Atmospheric pressure is about 15 PSI, so at best you will be putting 16 PSI into the engine.

The power an engine puts out depends upon the air you put in, and one PSI of boost means that you can put 16/15 as much air into the engine as you did before. The maximum power you get out will therefore be 108 (16/15) or 115 HP.

However, from this you have to subtract the power consumed by the blower, which comes from the alternator. The claim 38 amps draw, which is 38*14=532W or a bit less than one HP. This seems awfully low to me, as conventional superchargers take twenty times as much power to produce 5 PSI boost. In any case, your maximum horsepower gain would be 115-1-108 or 6 HP.

Now, this number seems respectable, but I have severe doubts that this device can supply 1PSI throughout the power range of the engine. Can it really supply the 75 liters per second of air under pressure that the engine needs?

Also, a continuous 38A additional draw on the alternator isn't something to take lightly. Yes, the alternator can provide that much current, but it is designed to produce it only for short periods to recharge the battery after the car is started. Supplying that kind of additional demand continuously invites electrical problems.


Thanks George. That's what I wanted to hear. According to the website, it use a contact switch to activate the blower and it is set at full throttle. This is the only condition that the car will gives enough power to supply the blower. If it is turned on at other time, it will either drain the battery or the car may not run properly.

Intakes are about 4...... whp.

In your dreams... 4 flywheel HP maybe... not to the wheels
Dude learn how to read dyno charts. Relax and let people do what they want.

Haha.. dynos ... they have an accuracy rate thats differs more than 5% for the SAME dyno between runs. Not to mention temp , baro, and other variables. I know, I used to have one in my shop. So you go ahead and believe the dyno charts and some advertisement... it will make you believe you have more power.

And don't worry, Im relaxed from all the laughing... Thanks!

Hey McBain..........I've been in contact with numerous performance shops who have done repeated dyno testing on different cold air intake systems for Scions.............and they all said the same thing, which is as follows:

"Tell that idiot McBain to shut up cause he's an annoying troll."

I'll take those results to the bank.

KiL

Well boylou, I'm sure the many performance shops you contacted who have done repeated testing on products that keep them in business gave you a fair and realistic answer to your questions. They would not be biased in any way. Especially if they sell these products. Thanks for doing all this valuable scientific research. Very useful for everyone.
The only thing you get to take to the bank is your money to pay for the many worthless items you seem to be so fond of. Good job!

snake oil!!!

:rofl: that one caught me off guard....


hey MCBAIN,
if you had a dyno in your shop then you should know what works and doesn't.
so instead of being a hater why not help the community with usefull knowledge of performance products....

It is not a question of being a hater. I am stating the obvious and being factual. For example. read this post. I said there would be no gains do to the fact that the blower will draw more engine power thru the alternator then it will produce. Many others said the same thing. Its a fact.
Yet some on here will cry and call me a hater because they don't want to hear the truth. Some of these mods just don't work. period. People just don't like to hear that. I design and manufacturer performance parts for select racing teams. Its what I do for a living. We don't worry about the aspects of drivability or passing smog tests. We are performance 100%. We have to extract all the gains possible from every aspect of the engine and driveline.
We have to know what works and what doesn't just to stay alive in this very competitive business. One too many losses and your history. We have been in business for 35 years and still growing strong. We didn't get there by adding expensive parts that didn't work. There is much engineering that goes into an engine system. You can't just change one or two pieces and expect it to make a difference. The engine works as a system and all aspects must be considered.
I enjoy all cars and like sharing information with others... at least I thought I did. I may come off as an old grouch, but I know what I'm talking about....
Nothing wrong with doing some mods on these cars or on a lawnmower engine... just don't expect big results if any.
Mods must be thought out and their effects must be considered for other parts of the system. A huge intake manifold doesn't help if the valves are too small or the cam duration is too short or the exhust system is too small. In fact it can hurt performance by changing the velocity of the intake charge.. There are so many cause and effect issues to consdier...

ok, i am starting to see some light ....

you are correct in that one mod alone will not make it a sleeper...it often has cascading effects to follow...
thus the most common Intake, Header and Exhaust go hand in hand....

maybe your employer would like to develop some parts for us....

The only thing you get to take to the bank is your money to pay for the many worthless items you seem to be so fond of. Good job!


What items are those exactly? Where did I say I was fond of any items?

KiL

I looked into these a couple of years ago. They will work on small engins like ours. The problem is when your not using it. The turbine in the intake blocks the incoming air. Under normal driving conditions your intake will be restricted to apprx. 15% of normal flow. When you stomp on the gas the turbine will spin up and give you 120% flow. This would be a good mod for a drag car! If you are at WOT all the time it works.

reading this thread gave me a headache

I talked to the guy at the company, they've been doing this since around 1995.
They started doing it in porsches in the scca class.The new models have improved since this firts ones.If you watch the video this fan lifts itself off the ground.
It only comes on at full throttle because you'r butterfly is completely open then.
keep in mind this was originally built for racing, comes on to help you out of corners.
Also helps off the line or when ever you punch it. They've also developed a super model which is two fans together to give you twice as much. I am very interested but
probably would be the last thing done. I think its worth looking at and take a look at
the customer feed back. The only good one to me seems to be the e ram.

reading this thread gave me a headache

+1 :yawn:

I am glad that someone actually took the time above to point out the 1HP it is wasting coupled with the very few it may produce. Now.. you are also adding 38amps draw to the charging system.. sorry, but I still dont see getting any benefit from this... most likely no noticeable gain and a charging system worn out much faster than normal.

Remember the guy who used a leaf blower on his car one the dyno? Well, most leaf blowers I know of have a much higher volume than I expect to see from that cheap fan and run at LEAST a few HP... he turned a whopping 10WHP with it.

But hey.. its funny that people "sell" this stuff. And you can ignore the "testamonials". The turbonator people also have "testamonials". My favorite was a guy claiming he gained 20WHP AND shaved over a second off his 1/4 mile time..... :rofl: the two lies he told dont even coincide with one another...