yeah, i went ahead and bought it...sucker born every minute, right!!!
well, i was on the phone ordering the pulley from my dist. and i asked about the fuel rail. done deal....got both

the new fuel rail came in. i took it out of the box to inspect it...
blue anodized rail and a hefty ss braided line about 20 inches long
first issue was the rial had the name ALTA etched into it...(well alta turns out to be the parrent company of perrin)

so, time came to install it...

their instructions are very simple...
basically
remove engine cover.
remove two 12mm bolts holding down the rail
remove the 10mm bolt holding the line at the side of the block.
disconnect the fuel line at the firewall
attach the new line
bolt the rail in place...
put back engine cover.
DONE!!! (well, not quite that easy)

the fuel rail goes through this hoop on the motor..
the valve cover has this hook protruding from it and it meets the cyclinder haed forming a hoop
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/dgHotLava/Fuel%20Rail/FuelRail.jpg

well the rail will not fit through the hoop...the rail has a hard line and it meets a flex coil hose and that meets the hard line at the firewall...

the disconnect fitting on the stock fuel rail does not fit through the hoop either...
where the fuel rail hard line meets the flex coil there is a connection. it is not meant to come apart, you gotta use a bunch of screwdrives and pics....
well that got the fuel rail out ....
now does the perrin one fit??
yes!!! the fuel line of the perrin one fits through the hoop....
go to push the rail down on the injectors and it would not line up with the bolt holes that hold down the rail....
it turns out the hoop was hitting the end of the rail....

i wanted to get this to fit. come hell or high water it was going on...

so, i decided to investigate what was up with the hoop, did it have a function...
remove the ground wire kit (optional)
remove the ignition coils
remove the valve cover...

well the hoop does not serve any function that i can tell, it's not for hoisting the motor as its only on the valve cover

so, lets break out the hacksaw (it is aluminum)
cut off the hook from the valve cover.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/dgHotLava/Fuel%20Rail/FuelRail2.jpg

reinstall the valve cover, ignition packs, grounding kit....
install the rail onto the injectors (pinched one o-ring....fixed that.) run the stainless steel braided line to the fire wall fuel line (forming the flex coil)

well the stock connection has a security keeper, well putting this on the new rail breaks the plastic ring that is meant to release the line...
after checking that the now broken plastic ring will not cause a problem, i put the security keeper back in place and zip tied it (just incase..)

cross fingers....turn on the key, presurize the line...no leaks....
say a prayer.....start car....it stalls
curse....start car again....it lives...still no leaks....

300 miles later and its leak free...

sorry for the long story, but i wanted to give a clear idea of what happened.....
did not take pics, but i have a spare motor that i can show the hoop...

opinon...no detectable performance gains (was not expecting any)
it does not have the purge protector that the stock one does.
i had the fuel light come on today, the car started to surge and pulse. this did not happen with the stock one...
not for dress up as it is covered up...except the ss braided hose...

should allow for upgrades in the future and better control of tuning....

Seems kind of janked in my opinion. Not much of a "plug and play" install like Perrin states on their site. I think they really need to brush up in their R&D department...

yeah, i am gonna call them on monday or tuesday....

i did the install on sat, so i didn't think it would help....

design wise, it does fit...
install wise, it is a lot more that they say...

:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Thanks for the write up dgHotLava! Thats a big help to a lot of people. Your sacrafice is our gain and we thank you for that. :D

After that pulley fiasco, I'm not ordering anything else from Perrin. But thanks for the heads up. I'm sure the Scion peeps are thankful :clap: .

Very nice write-up. Hope the pulley went on very easy. You did what needed to be done to get it installed. :clap:

I honestly can't see why anyone would buy stuff like that. The stock fuel rail is not the most restrictive part of the fuel system. If you have a motor that requires more fuel than the stock fuel system can provide, I wanna see it! One more thing to add to my "don't do ____ but got yer money list"! :rofl:

the pulley went on real easy....loosen two belts, one bolt...

the fuel rail is not for everone...i do have a boosted motor, larger fuel pump, injectors... i did not want the no.1 cyl to lean out (it is the farthest from the feed line)
granted the conditions for leaning it out are extreme, i wanted the extra security....

some pics added...

thank you! one less thing i have to obsess about buying

Please I hope that dgHotLava will take no offense here. The fuel line needs to be ran through the hole first then bolted down. If you try to bolt it down first then run the line it won't fit. You do NOT have to cut any portion of the valve cover to make it fit. (My personal xB is at home today and I will bring it in tomorrow to take the photos. I will attempt to post them here late tomorrow.)

If anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me directly!

Thank you to everyone!

Please I hope that dgHotLava will take no offense here. The fuel line needs to be ran through the hole first then bolted down. If you try to bolt it down first then run the line it won't fit. You do NOT have to cut any portion of the valve cover to make it fit. (My personal xB is at home today and I will bring it in tomorrow to take the photos. I will attempt to post them here late tomorrow.)

If anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me directly!

Thank you to everyone!

:doh:

Please I hope that dgHotLava will take no offense here. The fuel line needs to be ran through the hole first then bolted down. If you try to bolt it down first then run the line it won't fit. You do NOT have to cut any portion of the valve cover to make it fit. (My personal xB is at home today and I will bring it in tomorrow to take the photos. I will attempt to post them here late tomorrow.)

If anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me directly!

Thank you to everyone!

:doh:
:no:

i did try that....(not as dumb as you think i am..)
i thought that i would remove the valve cover, install the rail, then put the valve cover back on. if the hoop was just in the way of getting the injectors to line up...it would be ok once it was bolted down.
but after the rail was bolted down, i laid the valve cover back on top. it still hit the feed line coming off the rail....
so it was three choices...
1. put back the stock one....
2. grind off the part that hits the rail...
3. cut that bloody hook off...(i admit, i took the drastic route....lol)

now, i did post this in a rush...to be fair, it could be an isolated issue that i have...
i have a feeling that the casting for my valve cover was not perfect and thats all...

i am talking to perrin to amend the instructions. (to include what adam stated above...)
i am going to send them photos of the installed product.
i could have an incorrect part...(would explain things....the rail did not have its own box or label to confirm this is the right part.)
so if its a mix up, its up to me to scream at the middle man who supplied this to me....

hey dgHotLava. are you gonna keep your stock fuel rail. i am in desperate need of one and toyota estimates 1-2 months before they can get one in from japan. if you dont mind, i wanna buy it off of you. let me know, thanks

hey dgHotLava. are you gonna keep your stock fuel rail. i am in desperate need of one and toyota estimates 1-2 months before they can get one in from japan. if you dont mind, i wanna buy it off of you. let me know, thanks
Dang, you still haven't gotten yours yet? It's been a while, huh?

i gave up on toyota parts department. 2 months to get a fuel rail....how can they not have 1 in the whole us. what if someones just broke one day...their car would be out for 2 months?..its rediculous. if i cant get this fuel rail i may just go pick up a used echo engine or something.

Please I hope that dgHotLava will take no offense here. The fuel line needs to be ran through the hole first then bolted down. If you try to bolt it down first then run the line it won't fit. You do NOT have to cut any portion of the valve cover to make it fit. (My personal xB is at home today and I will bring it in tomorrow to take the photos. I will attempt to post them here late tomorrow.)

If anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me directly!

Thank you to everyone!

Pics?

(My personal xB is at home today and I will bring it in tomorrow to take the photos. I will attempt to post them here late tomorrow.)

If anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me directly!

Thank you to everyone!
I hate to sound like a pr*ck but, 2 days and counting :blah: :blah: :blah: . It seems to me that Perrin makes alot of promises that they don't keep.

(My personal xB is at home today and I will bring it in tomorrow to take the photos. I will attempt to post them here late tomorrow.)

If anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me directly!

Thank you to everyone!
I hate to sound like a pr*ck but, 2 days and counting :blah: :blah: :blah: . It seems to me that Perrin makes alot of promises that they don't keep.

talked to Adam on the phone on tues...
he insists that the rail fits...i insist that it did not (maybe the casting for my valve cover is off a little. they do have more than one casting production line. if they did not, they could not make as many as they do!!!)
then i describe that the rail i have hits (or is very close) to the plug for the vvt device, and it is very close to hitting the hoop thing (remember i only cut the top part off, the bottom is still there...)
Adam says this is different from the one he put on his car...his is not as wide and clears everything...

all i can think of now is either i have the wrong fuel rail (it was not in a box, nor did it have a label...it was put into a bigger box with the crank pulley(the pulley did have its own box and label))
or perrin messed up....

this is my first time dealing with perrin, and am giving them the opertunity to work with this issue....better instructions are needed and the product needs to be verified...

thanks for the write up super!

unlmtdndeavor... try a different toyota dealership... some dealerships are lazier then others...

when i had to buy oem honda parts, i used to drive close to an hour to sloane honda, just to get parts... they were super fast and super cheap and were really friendly...

try different toyota parts deptartments in your area and see which one works the best, or which one is actually willing to work for you...

have you put your car on the dyno since the fuel rail? I'd like to see if it actually does function properly. I just got my car off the dyno the other day and my air/fuel ratio is not what i'd like it to be.


-duey

no dyno yet....still have 200 mile to properly break in the clutch (done at the same time...)

Hmm, sounds like maybe David has a 1st gen fuel rail or the wrong fuel rail if Adam is saying nothing hits in the install. How about Perrin sending David a fuel rail to see if its the same one he has installed?

Hmm, sounds like maybe David has a 1st gen fuel rail or the wrong fuel rail if Adam is saying nothing hits in the install. How about Perrin sending David a fuel rail to see if its the same one he has installed?
We all know that's not gonna happen squirrel :no: . Lokwhat happened to me :lalala: .

Hmm, sounds like maybe David has a 1st gen fuel rail or the wrong fuel rail if Adam is saying nothing hits in the install. How about Perrin sending David a fuel rail to see if its the same one he has installed?
We all know that's not gonna happen squirrel :no: . Lokwhat happened to me :lalala: .

Ya, I know. I was hoping for the best!

Munch: I don't know what happened to you. I have personally spoken to you on several occasions and you never expressed to me that you had an ongoing problem. However, if something has happened or something that wasn't previously addressed by me or the staff here, please just let me know.

Back to the issue of the fuel rails.

I had an opportunity to get our test mule back over here to the shop. The rail that is installed on that vehicle does not have the stainless braided line and also used a different fitting/coupler at the rail itself. As I mentioned before ours did not hit.

I personally removed the prototype part and installed a production version fresh out of the box. The stainless line/clamp/fitting prevented proper fit without modifcation to the opening in the valve cover. WE agree that the easiest way to solve the interference is to remove a portion of the valve cover. This can be done to a lesser extreme than shown in the photos above. Or (this is the recommended way) is to relieve a portion of metal with a dremel type tool. The hoop is placed there by the factory to protect the fuel supply line . The removal of it completely is not recommended.

Our apologies for any inconvenience to any affected customers. If a consumer has received the part and is unwilling to make the modification, please return it to the retailer for a refund. If the retailer has any issue with the return please have them contact me directly.

Finally, an installation note will accompany the current shipments to make the customer aware of the steps necessary to properly fit the product.

Thanks again.

I have always wondered what the intended purpose of this particular item is? Is it designed as a dress-up item only or do you purport some type of power increase? Are you under the impression that there is something lacking in the stock fuel rail? I'm very curious about this product.

the pupose of a fuel rail is to supply fuel to the injectors....(i know...duh)
if you need to supply a larger amount of fuel to the motor (from boosting or N2O) it helps to increase the delivery capacity of the fuel system.
this will ensure you don't lean out (not have enought fuel delivered). too lean and the motor could blow up...
the chances of leaning out are slim (only at prolonged high revs...)

dremel would work (i confess, i did the extreme route...)

overall the product is great, just the unknown installation hiccups worried me....
now that the instructions are enhanced, future customers will be fine...

The part is designed both as a dress up item as well as an insurance policy for vehicles that are adding extra HP. The rail has a larger ID to allow a larger volume of fuel to be available behind the injector. Without this rail some vehicles will experience lean conditions on the cylinder farthest away from the input source.

As always let us know if we can help further!

i installed the perrin fuel rails on an 02 WRX.. what a headache.. i would NEVER want to repeat that performance..

perrin doesn't really make PERFECT FITTING parts.. :(.. but they are PRETTY lol..

The part is designed both as a dress up item as well as an insurance policy for vehicles that are adding extra HP. The rail has a larger ID to allow a larger volume of fuel to be available behind the injector. Without this rail some vehicles will experience lean conditions on the cylinder farthest away from the input source.

As always let us know if we can help further! As a dress-up item it looks real sweet under that engine cover! :rofl: Would "some vehicles" include any XBs, since you sell them for XBs? If anyone has an XB that requires more fuel than the stock rail can supply without "experiencing lean conditions on the cylinder farthest away from the input source" I would be most interested in hearing from you! In the meantime I would have to surmize thyat this product is totally useless. :lalala:

when your forced induction like myself and dgHotLava you'll need a fuel system upgrade for sure. Under full boost my car dips dangerously lean. I'll be picking up this fuel rail soon along with other stuff to get my air/fuel mixture back to a safe level.

On a stock motor it'll never get to the point where it is going to lean out to a dangerous condition.

dgHotLava,

You plan on dyno'ing anytime soon? I'd like to compare our sheets when you do. I love your setup compared to mines but i'm a turbo addict. Your engine bay looks SOOO much better than mines.

too be honest, i missed yours....i wanted to talk, but got swamped...
if you make the next meet, i'll get to see you set up better(not 100 feet away...)

yes, i plan on taking it to the dyno... need to finish breaking in the clutch and take a day off to do it....

i still think my engine bay looks like an un-made bed...it's kinda messy. but the mess is hidden so it doesn't jump right out at you....
waiting till it warms up to finish...(damn, it snowed again!)

Dave, sounds like you have a faulty Toyota engine/injector fitment! :doh: :lalala: And Munch has a faulty crank shaft! :doh:

Sorry, just trying to brighten things up.

Dave, sounds like you have a faulty Toyota engine/injector fitment! :doh: :lalala: And Munch has a faulty crank shaft! :doh:

Sorry, just trying to brighten things up.
and i have a busted engine :doh:

Dave, sounds like you have a faulty Toyota engine/injector fitment! :doh: :lalala: And Munch has a faulty crank shaft! :doh:

Sorry, just trying to brighten things up.

seems like perrin fessed up to this one too...
i emailed them asking if the test fit the item i have...they said yes...
next day they said they took off the prototype part and tried putting on the production part....guess what....it did not fit!!!


I don’t really mind…as my efforts make the car more of me…

I am happy tho, all my external engine mods are done. Now I get to work on the transmission mods…
Every little bit brings me closer to my biggest challenge, internal engine mods…
(i need to talk to someone...but they might not help me out...letting things cool down before i ask...)

Who else has done injectors besides me? Anyhow, the fuel rail on the 1nz is almost identical to the one on the 2zz... the dimensions are very similar, therefore I would say that this fuel rail upgrade is useless. 2zz's have 310cc injectors, and I don't see them leaning out any cylinders from the factory lol.

Money is better spent in larger injectors and some proper tuning.

hmm i like it when a company can admit it screwed up and takes the proper steps to correct things..

and i like that perrin is making things for the box no one is...

but .. i wonder what's going on over there at perrin... this is the second prototype to production mishap so far ... by my count that's 2 for 3... i only only hope for them no one finds problems with the oil catch can...

Who else has done injectors besides me? Anyhow, the fuel rail on the 1nz is almost identical to the one on the 2zz... the dimensions are very similar, therefore I would say that this fuel rail upgrade is useless. 2zz's have 310cc injectors, and I don't see them leaning out any cylinders from the factory lol.

Money is better spent in larger injectors and some proper tuning.

whats the fuel pump that goes with the 2zz's? (how much lph...)

and yes, injecters and tuning are well worth it (lots of tuning..)
but when you're done with that....why not....

There is an aftermarket company that makes injectors for our engines, BUT part of the head needs to be machine for them to properly fit. I'll call my buddy to find out the company.

we can use stock toyota parts... the injectors from the 2zz motor are bigger than our stock ones....

we can use stock toyota parts... the injectors from the 2zz motor are bigger than our stock ones....

Seems like you're the only one the read my write up months and months ago... :P

Did you do this as well?

we can use stock toyota parts... the injectors from the 2zz motor are bigger than our stock ones....

Seems like you're the only one the read my write up months and months ago... :P

Did you do this as well?

i did read your write up..(thanks again)
i have the set of injectors ready to go, but have not dropped them in yet...

i know, i know...i should have done it while i had the rail off...but i didn't have time to tune it....
i was going to a meet in 12 hours and needed to finish the clutch/pulley....

i am tring to set up something (will pm you about it, i don't know how much info you can share with me)

This is a great topic, mind if I bring it back to life? :D

so did perrin adam ever post a pic anywhere other than this thread? without the purge built in whether it can help with boosted motors or not i would want it.

This is a great topic, mind if I bring it back to life? :D
it's like seeing an old friend again. thanks.

so did perrin adam ever post a pic anywhere other than this thread? without the purge built in whether it can help with boosted motors or not i would want it.
no pic from adam. after getting an earful about how my problem could not happen. he was going to post a pic of his set up.
only to find out he has a pre-production piece. different line going to the rail.

i still think this is a good part. just poor QC on perrins behalf. (again...the pulley was the first mishap)

yeah i dunno if i'd trust them. i do need a pulley though and theirs is basically the only one out there.

i trust these products now.

might have some hesitations about any new products...need to have someone else test it out....

I would buy from them. :D

i trust these products now.

might have some hesitations about any new products...need to have someone else test it out....

Dave (Mr. Featured Ride of the Month),

I'm glad you do, cuz I still don't.

it must be my hard core modding roots. i will buy things and make them work...
if you expect something perfect, they would not be my first recomendation.....

and thanks for the FROTM...i'm just following in the footsteps of those before me...
they left some big shoes to fill....

it must be my hard core modding roots. i will buy things and make them work...
if you expect something perfect, they would not be my first recomendation.....

and thanks for the FROTM...i'm just following in the footsteps of those before me...
they left some big shoes to fill....

Yeah, I know. I wouldn't be seen in the same show as you. You make my xB look stock!

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/scionaoko/AutoX26June2005/12.jpg

stock huu?? :silly: :no: :bow: :bow:

So funny how just one minor piece of aluminum would cause a few people not to trust them. The problem is minor, infact I just helped a Norcal member(Shelby) install a fuel rail/Pulley with no problems what so ever. Thank you so much for the write up dgHotLava, in fact I loved the product so much that PrecisionMuffler.com will now have them available on our website. All Perrin products are now available in Norcal for purchase and installation. :D Thank you Perrin for a product thats matched to none. :)
http://www.precisionmuffler.com/60ce1410.jpg

Thanks to the info provided by dgHotLava we now have a larger fuel injector configuration that will work perfectly with this quality product. It will also be available for sale on PrecisionMuffler.com very soon. :D