For all those who hate me for speaking some fact. Please see the following post:

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13079

Look at the bottom post... Dyno results with headers, intake, etc...
The beginning shows the dyno results for the pieces.. seems a bit optimistic to me... but also consider that the results of these individual mods are not cumulative.

"I just got back from a car show in Melbourne Florida (Cars For Charity) and had by XB dyno'd just to see if what the dealerships are telling us is true. My 2004 XB is a stock engine with AEM cold Air and DC Sport headers, Auto trans and Borla catback exhaust. The dyno was 83 hp. Very disappointing!! I know I have a set of big chrome wheels and auto trans, but I was expecting to be at least 100 hp. There were at least 10 other XB owners there watchin and we just didn't know what to say. I believe that the dyno operator did an agressive job of getting on it, but that was all the little engine could do.....

I did win low HP run of the event hands down, but that is not something to be proud of.

putt putt putt putt putt puttttttttttt

Here are picture of the dyno run.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v295/hip-2b-sqr/Dyno%20Run/
"
OK.. now let the excuses fly!

all I'm gonna say is them's some big wheels.

So so sad, but i believe it unfortunately. Thanks for posting your results though.

How was the charity show, i couoldn't make it because of the shop holding my box for so long.

For all those who hate me for speaking some fact.

No........people hate you for being a dick. People love facts........they don't like people who are dicks.

KiL

all I'm gonna say is them's some big wheels.
Big and heavy = less hp shown on the dyno.

For all those who hate me for speaking some fact.

No........people hate you for being a dick. People love facts........they don't like people who are dicks.

KiL

Great reply. It says it all.. So you are how old , 12 or 13 ?

If you do a search and read my posts, you will see the facts. The truth is out there if you want to see for yourself.
I am just passing along some experiences and facts. Please look up my last few posts and have someone read them to you.

" A fool and his money are soon parted"

It appears YOU are the one with the problem reading and comprehending. You have this belief that people dislike you because you are doing such of wonderful public service by providing "facts." That's a nice way to dismiss your attitude. But the FACT is........people have responded negatively to you because every post I've read of yours wasn't just helpful provision of information............it came with a side of "hey look at what an _______ I am."

We already have people around here with FACTS.......who happen to be able to pass them on without being condescending cocks. So.....you bring nothing to the table here.

And I'm 11........get your sh*t strait.

KiL

there's a difference between what car's HP output is @ the crank vs @ the wheels... you'll always have a loss if you measure it @ the wheels...

It appears YOU are the one with the problem reading and comprehending. You have this belief that people dislike you because you are doing such of wonderful public service by providing "facts." That's a nice way to dismiss your attitude. But the FACT is........people have responded negatively to you because every post I've read of yours wasn't just helpful provision of information............it came with a side of "hey look at what an _______ I am."

We already have people around here with FACTS.......who happen to be able to pass them on without being condescending cocks. So.....you bring nothing to the table here.

And I'm 11........get your ____ strait.

KiL

Haha.. thanks for proving a point. The only reason you're so upset over this is because you have a problem with facts. Don't like to hear or believe it. So You can resort to all the name calling you want, but you can't dispute the facts, little boy. So when you grow up enough to understand and handle the truth you might see things differently, but I wouldn't hold my breath...

them's some big heavy wheels, ain't they?

It appears YOU are the one with the problem reading and comprehending. You have this belief that people dislike you because you are doing such of wonderful public service by providing "facts." That's a nice way to dismiss your attitude. But the FACT is........people have responded negatively to you because every post I've read of yours wasn't just helpful provision of information............it came with a side of "hey look at what an _______ I am."

We already have people around here with FACTS.......who happen to be able to pass them on without being condescending cocks. So.....you bring nothing to the table here.

And I'm 11........get your ____ strait.

KiL

Haha.. thanks for proving a point. The only reason you're so upset over this is because you have a problem with facts. Don't like to hear or believe it. So You can resort to all the name calling you want, but you can't dispute the facts, little boy. So when you grow up enough to understand and handle the truth you might see things differently, but I wouldn't hold my breath...


Please tell me what facts I have a problem with........I'm dying to know.

KiL

Oh.......and in case you were unaware............that is now THREE unsubstantiated claims you have made against me in three different topics.

I know you don't want to look like a complete idiot............so I'm sure you'll do your best to try and explain just exactly what I ever said that you are basing your claims off of.

Claims that are as follows:

1. The only thing you did was to show your ignorance about performance gains on mods that do little or nothing.

Where did I state anything about performance gains on any mods? Please provide an example.


2. The only thing you get to take to the bank is your money to pay for the many worthless items you seem to be so fond of. Good job!

What items am I fond of? Please let us all know where in that topic I claimed anything about fondness for any item.


3. The only reason you're so upset over this is because you have a problem with facts.

Again.....please tell me............what fact is it that I have a problem with?



I'd like to see how you came up with all that. But, like you, I won't be holding my breath...................cause you manufactured all that crap out of thin air.

KiL

Boylou, Nice of you to take my comments out of context. That's the way you settle an arguement. I won't lower myself to your standards. I presented facts, just do a search and read the posts. You resorted to name calling and did nothing but cry foul without providing any facts or info.
So go ahead and play your game. It fits you well. When you want real useful information, Have someone read my posts to you. I doubt you will understand them but who knows, almost anything is possible.

What facts are you stating here ... I can't seem to figure it out ... We all know the Scion has no power ... So what facts are you stating ...

Nice of you to take my comments out of context.

Way to try and dodge the bullet.......but it was a pathetic attempt at best.

"It was taken out of context" is ONLY a defense when the context gives the statement a different meaning. Taken out of context..........your statements MEAN EXACTLY WHAT THEY SAY.........left in context, you statements MEAN EXACTLY WHAT THEY SAY. Anyone is welcome to go back and read the context and see for themselves. You fabricated those claims. Period.

So explain how you came up with them............I'm still waiting. :lalala:


And as lavabox pointed out..............what exactly are the facts you think you are presenting. Most of your posts are merely your opinions......which you choose to share with a cocky attitude that makes people want to ____ in your cereal. The "facts" presented in this post are simply proving what mostly everyone here already knows..........that the simple bolt ons provide very little if anything. So just who the hell is it you think you've educated.................and what exactly was the lesson that we didn't already know?

Come on oh great teacher of teachers.

But before addressing that last question of mine............don't forget to try and explain how you came up will all that bull____ about me.

Thanks.

KiL

wow guys calm down... he was just sharing his dyno results for people who don't seem to know everything like you. His results could be comparable to others because every car might have different mods changing results but hes just showing what he got. CHILL OUT. :loser:

WHEELS, big WHEELS..

I will say two things , Huge and very heavy looking wheels , and a slushbox.
On a seperate think McBain i don't want you to start calling me immature also but in all honesty you come off as a know it all jerk , I have seen some facts but.....most people on here know that bolt ons cannot make a car , many internal pieces are needed to be used to extract extra power. Just lighten up with you attitude because you really do come off as an ___. I'm trying to tell you so people actually look for information in you posts versus just scoffing at how much of a hard ___ naysayer you seem to be.

I swear I saw some dyno tests that showed a stock xB with 93HP, which sounds
about right accounting for a 10-15% loss in the drivetrain.

Can big wheels really make that much of a difference?

all I'm gonna say is them's some big wheels.

them's some big heavy wheels, ain't they?

WHEELS, big WHEELS..


I am begining to think that the wheels might have something to do with it.

So you have some huge, heavy, sluggish wheels.

If you go back to the first Intake Shootout thread (waaaay before you even knew what Scionlife was and when King Lou was a huge contributer) you'll see dynos of Scions over 100 hp at the wheels all day long.

Not that it really matters, because anyone who buys an xB or xA knows they're buying a slow ___ car. Even when I supercharged an xB I did it knowing that it still would be a slow car.

I don't know why you have to flame King Lou, he's been around for a long time and he's always been a very helpful guy to have on the forums. It may be in your best interest to listen to what he has to say.

I swear I saw some dyno tests that showed a stock xB with 93HP, which sounds
about right accounting for a 10-15% loss in the drivetrain.

Can big wheels really make that much of a difference?

Oh, thanks for the reminder...

A stock xB should put about 93-95hp to the wheels. If you're dyno is at 83 or something, then you've actually slowed your car down more than stock with your "performance" mods. Again, I'm guessing your big wheels, but who knows?

My 2004 XB is a stock engine with AEM cold Air and DC Sport headers, Auto trans and Borla catback exhaust. The dyno was 83 hp.

Your sig says you have an 05 xB. Which is it?

^^^^ DibujoB, it's not his car he's talking about. He rehashed someone else's post because he's more concerned with trolling the boards than doing his own research.


McBain, I honestly couldn't give less a care about dyno results. I love driving my xB, and that's all that matters. Stop being a douchebag.

Thanks Z. I didn't pick up on that first time through...I thought this guy was at least talking about his own car.

Man Mcbain, you've been a memeber of Scionlife for like 3 days, and not only have you not made a single beneficial point, but you've already contridicted yourself.

Here you are "spilling the truth" about our xB's based on your own disappointing dyno, and not even a day ago you were bashing dynos and talking about how inaccurate they are.

Intakes are about 4...... whp.

In your dreams... 4 flywheel HP maybe... not to the wheels
Dude learn how to read dyno charts. Relax and let people do what they want.

Haha.. dynos ... they have an accuracy rate thats differs more than 5% for the SAME dyno between runs. Not to mention temp , baro, and other variables. I know, I used to have one in my shop. So you go ahead and believe the dyno charts and some advertisement... it will make you believe you have more power.

And don't worry, Im relaxed from all the laughing... Thanks!

And for your info, some dynos have shown intakes to add 3-5 whp. I say again, go look at the original thread about the intake shootout, and you'll see some dynos which establish the xB baseline at about 93-95hp, and some CAI's that put it about 100hp. Dynos from people who actually know what the hell they're doing, like Magnaflow.

Instead of coming around here and flaming everyone, make some useful posts. This is a great board and we love having new people here, but try to be less judgemental.

92-95whp is for a manual xB automatics have less.

So you have some huge, heavy, sluggish wheels.

If you go back to the first Intake Shootout thread (waaaay before you even knew what Scionlife was and when King Lou was a huge contributer) you'll see dynos of Scions over 100 hp at the wheels all day long.

Not that it really matters, because anyone who buys an xB or xA knows they're buying a slow ___ car. Even when I supercharged an xB I did it knowing that it still would be a slow car.

I don't know why you have to flame King Lou, he's been around for a long time and he's always been a very helpful guy to have on the forums. It may be in your best interest to listen to what he has to say.

I agree, the intake shoot out was the biggest topic there was about HP. and now here we are talking about your HP with some big chrome wheels. Next time dyno with some stockies, now we know what HP your puttin out. Not us.

92-95whp is for a manual xB automatics have less.

More loss with the auto due to the fluid coupling in the torque converter. Typically a 20% loss for auto vs about 15% for the manual...

92-95whp is for a manual xB automatics have less.

More loss with the auto due to the fluid coupling in the torque converter. Typically a 20% loss for auto vs about 15% for the manual...

:clap: Good post!

92-95whp is for a manual xB automatics have less.

More loss with the auto due to the fluid coupling in the torque converter. Typically a 20% loss for auto vs about 15% for the manual...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

them's some big heavy wheels, ain't they?
Those are some big wheels bet they wiegh a hell of a lot. Would like to try my 17s.

Well who cares about HP with an xB, and yea it might be the rims making the HP go down but I kind of like those rims! I like to consider the xB in the same category as my Harley... all looks but no speed. On another note I did drag race the kid down the street the other day and won!!! I whooped him, and his bike with the training wheels! We had cookies and milk afterwards to show that we still like each other. Next time I'll let him win.

Well who cares about HP with an xB, and yea it might be the rims making the HP go down but I kind of like those rims! I like to consider the xB in the same category as my Harley... all looks but no speed. On another note I did drag race the kid down the street the other day and won!!! I whooped him, and his bike with the training wheels! We had cookies and milk afterwards to show that we still like each other. Next time I'll let him win.

Are you kidding? HE let YOU win. :silly:

KiL

:nope: LOL he might of... I forgot to add he was towing his brother in the radio wagon, and he let me have a rolling start. :P :P

You left out the part that you had 500 model rocket engines taped across your back bumper.

KiL

them's some big heavy wheels, ain't they?
Those are some big wheels bet they wiegh a hell of a lot. Would like to try my 17s.

The size of the wheels make a difference as you are effectively lowering the final drive ratio with smaller wheels. Its an old drag racers trick.. Larger wheels have a diadvantage unless you use a very low profile to make up the difference.
I like the look of some of the aftermarket wheels.. Its one of the better mods for the Xb.

Didn't the base model Honda Civic only have like 89 hp from the factory? Look at them now, theres a lot of them running some really quick times and some respectable numbers. I think that the xb has just as much potential as they do to make power. And just one quick question Mcbain.....What state are you from?

Hey guys that was my post about the dyno. Me and lots of other Scion club members just wanted to know the numbers. I felt the dyno tech did a good job of getting on it during the test and I think those numbers are accurate for the conditions. Only posted to share the info, not to stir anyone up. And yes, those are very big, very heavy wheels. Lots of things could have been done to have much better numbers, but this is how I drive it around every day as do most peolpe. Real life data. Actually I was very happy to have the access to the dyno at the show and it was very interesting seeing how it is all done in person. 200+ people standing around watching everything. We had our question answered or at least a bench number for everyone to go from. You guys need to mellow out....life is too short..............

Wait, my xB actually has more than 2 hp?! Hot damn! I like it even more now.

Wait, my xB actually has more than 2 hp?! Hot damn! I like it even more now.

I like to think about it as GP...... Gerbil Power. It sounds a lot better if you say I have 25 GP as opposed to 2 HP. It's alot cheaper to replace a gerbil too. Dang horses ain't cheap.... got to feed, stable, and get rid of all the crap. Gerbils on the other hand... CHEAP!!!!!! :P

Richard Gear had to 2 GP.

I swear I saw some dyno tests that showed a stock xB with 93HP, which sounds
about right accounting for a 10-15% loss in the drivetrain.

Can big wheels really make that much of a difference?
big wheels and an auto... I've seen as much as an additional 10% loss of power through an auto (vs a manual)

how about this. every dyno is calibrated different and will put out different numbers. some dynos consistenly put out a reading of less hp and are still accurate. i say if you guys have problems with each other, discuss it out of the public forum.

Richard Gear had to 2 GP.
ALRIGHT! Thats funny, iget it. Hahahahahahaha. :rofl:

i like the fact that everyone is blaming the HP numbers on big wheels

while some of you at the same time are bashing us for NOT wanting to run 18's and 19's
http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=48051

there is a running thread about 16" wheels and we recieved nothing but ridicule and chasitizing for not getting with the Big Wheel Gang

i agree that the difference in auto and std is significant, but a lot of xB's (mine included) are automatic

i completely believe these numbers for his vehicle at that time

are these corrected figures???

I think i will get mine dynoed and scan the printout for all to see
and watch how badly i get reamed and what i am said to have done wrong :blah:

i don't know about anybody else, but i think it has to do with the wheels

i now have an appointment on Monday night for a dyno run

you all inspired me to find the truth

At the car show, my dyno run cost $40 (donated to the charity) and was worth the money to obtain real world data of an XB with nothing whatsoever done to prepare it for a dyno run. Give your XB its best chance and give yourself a little edge by getting new plugs, synth oil, clean air filter, high oct gas, ect.... wouldn't hurt to give yourself the best chance of accurate data. Lets us know the data.

Very important to tell dyno tech to have firm grip on steering wheel during test, my xb tended to drift to one side during the test.

if i remember correctly.... i didnt get a scion for massive hp! i got it for the looks. im not saying your information is bad but i think that its incorrect...... then again it is a auto.... it cant be that far off of the factory suggested HP. 108-83???? thats almost as bad as my gangstiva.... as a comparison i think the XB is alot quicker than my gangstiva of which has 70 HP alot quicker

What a wild read.
You know, I have the AEM, the BORLA, and have found, that with them, my xB goes faster. I have no idea how many horses that my five speed '05 mondel should have under the hood. I am sorta curious about it, and how many more I should have with the AEM and BORLA.

But you know what? In the end, the thing moves faster then it did with out those add ons, and frankly, I think it sounds cooler now then it did then...

And since the Box ain't a CORVETTE (although both were voted sexist cars of '05 by LIFE MAGAZINE), like I was saying, since the BOX ain't a CORVETTE, and since I know this going in, I am happy with what I got.

The xB is fast enough, for this old fart.

Now, just so I can know, what is the HP suppose to be? And, so I can compare, what is the HP, say, of a New Beetle?

That's all. Thanks.

So, with the low HP gains with aftermarket parts... that means the stock parts are more effecient???

The stock parts are pretty danged efficient , nothing that cannot be improved upon but they squeezed this lil 1.5 pretty good.

Why would even dyno an xB? :rofl: They ain't made for speed, and besides that, a dyno pull is hard on the squirrels. :rofl:

Ok, forgive me for being the heretic here, but after 2 pages
and pushing and pulling, it looks like we have only one,
solid, true fact.

The stock xB manual, is about 92-95HP and the Automatic
is a little less.

Now, that said, we have probably 1000 boxes in this forum,
hasn't a single person done before and after tests of after
market parts, and cataloged the results?

I mean, we've got clubs, shows, groups, BBQs. We have
friends in the tuning industry and sponsors.

So WTF can't we (that's *we* as in xB owners with all these
great connections), get together and settle these retarded
debates once and for all?

If I had the connections, I would start coordinating this
right friggen now because not only am I tired of this stupid
back and forth ____, but I'd really like to KNOW and be able
to tell a newb with confidence "this is a stock xB, and through
our testing, these are the performance upgrades that work,
and here is the order we recommend them in".

It shouldn't be that hard...if the stuck up _______s in the
Porsche clubs can get together and do this, why can't we?

Crap I’m tired of this, you’d think this was a CRX forum…

It's expensive man , I know I barely have enough money to buy the parts let alone dyno after I install each one.