The guinea pig is back. There hasn't been a lot of info about these, but I decided to bite the bullet and get them anyways.

If anyone is thinking about an alternative to coilovers because you don't need the adjustability... get these. The drop is on par with the Goldlines or Tanabe DF210, but it also includes shorter shocks.

The ride is slightly stiffer, but the car has less body roll and when you're pushing through a corner or a sharp on-ramp, the car feels a lot more planted. It's not as jittery feeling as the suspension on a Mini Cooper or an EVO, so you don't have to worry about your fillings flying out on the highway.

If you're looking to race, I would still probably recommend the JIC Magic FLA-T2s, but these are great for the daily driver who wants a little added performance and an affordable way to get that dropped look.

So... there's my write up. I'm sure you just wanted the pics anyways.

This is stock:
http://iq0.org/gallery2/main.php/download/354-1/stock%20height.jpg

This is lowered:

http://iq0.org/gallery2/main.php/download/362-1/side%20shot.jpg

http://iq0.org/gallery2/main.php/download/368-1/closeup%20_right_.jpg

http://iq0.org/gallery2/main.php/download/364-1/angled.jpg

http://iq0.org/gallery2/main.php/download/370-1/high%20shot.jpg

Very nice. Did you have any installation issues? I like the sunroof too! Where'd you get that done?

On the front struts, the spring was pretty difficult to compress over the them, so you need someone else to help you with that. That was the only issue. It was a much easier install than I had anticipated.

My sunroof was done a local shop in Frederick, MD. Pretty quick (a little more than a day) and the install was very clean.

Oh, I thought it would have been a complete suspension setup. It'd already be assembled and you'd just pop it in. Compressing them can be a PITA, I had some trouble when putting in my H&R Race Springs, but I got them on with a little effort. Could have borrowed a spring compressor from Autozone, but was too lazy. Setup looks clean. I'm sure your springs will settle a little more after a week or so.

How much did the sunroof run you if you don't mind me asking? Is it a glass top?

What drop is that? How many inches did it come down?

The cup kits are 2.2F and 1.8R

Very nice drop and it will settle a bit more in about a week

Oh, I thought it would have been a complete suspension setup. It'd already be assembled and you'd just pop it in.

It only included the struts and springs.... you still have to take off the factory dust boot, mounts, etc. and put them on the new struts. They make you work for it! :doh:

oh man AWESOME. i was looking at the cup kit for when i get my xB in a month or so. i thought i was gonna be the first :P . now i know for sure im getting 'em!

:clap:

love it love it love it love it love it! i can't wait, the day i saw that H&R released a cup kit for the xB, i knew it was only a matter of time before i bought it, but i'm so happy to see pics and see that it's exactly the drop i want.

1. Where and how much did you buy your cup kit.

2. The stock xB suspension setup is kind of bouncy does the cup kit make it less bouncy or is it still kind of bouncy, but stiffer / quicker bounce or does the shocks that come with the kit countrol the rate of bounce.

thanks for the info

:)

good job on the write up and thanks for being the guinnea pig. hope that that kit works out for you

1. Where and how much did you buy your cup kit.

2. The stock xB suspension setup is kind of bouncy does the cup kit make it less bouncy or is it still kind of bouncy, but stiffer / quicker bounce or does the shocks that come with the kit countrol the rate of bounce.

1. I bought it at the TireRack.

2. What do you mean bouncy? The stock xB suspension setup was kind of soft and compliant, in my opinion. The xB was never Lexus-like in it's cushiness, and while it handled decently, I never thought of it as sporty or especially responsive. It might have been bouncy over bumpy surfaces, but the suspension didn't respond as quickly as it does now. It's not the same kind of stiffness that you feel when you're slammed on coilovers though. It's "sporty", but it's not over-the-top stiff. If you have driven an EVO8... that's what I'm talking about when I mean over-the-top stiff.

The H&R's are quite a bit stiffer than stock... once you've gotten used to the stock xB suspension, you can definately feel a difference in the handling characteristics. For decent roads, you won't notice a difference in bounciness, but if your roads are bad, i.e., driving through DC, it can be... fun. I think it's more bouncy. You won't lose a filling, but you'll definately get a nice vibrating massage. :P

nice looking drop.

I upgraded just springs on my previous car and it was bizzouncing. I found out that the spring rate was too high for the stock springs to dampen. So what I did was to get a matched NISMO springs and shocks kit and it was stiff but not bouncy. So when I say bouncy, i'm saying that the factory shocks seems underdampened for the factory spring rate to produce a more controlled suspension travel.

I upgraded just springs on my previous car and it was bizzouncing. I found out that the spring rate was too high for the stock springs to dampen. So what I did was to get a matched NISMO springs and shocks kit and it was stiff but not bouncy. So when I say bouncy, i'm saying that the factory shocks seems underdampened for the factory spring rate to produce a more controlled suspension travel.

No, it doesn't bounce like that.

if they dropped lower theyd definately be an alternative for me.

do they sell the shocks seperate? if so where?

I don't think so. You could call H&R or e-mail them to see if they would sell them to you, but I'd rather just spend the money on coilovers. You'd need coilovers or bags to go lower anyways... and I'm already scraping on potholes, speed bumps, and inclined driveways...

oh man ya gotta go seriously sideways , lol . be glad the xb's have short overhangs , imagine a even more agressive drop on an older long front overhang supra. that gave me my supreme sideways driving style and skills , lol.

Dude, you have way too many cars...

On another note: I don't think these springs settled. It's about the same height as it was when I dropped it. It might have went a bit lower, but from looking at it, it doesn't seem like it has changed.

with the drop im wondering if you can go with 18's 19's with out rubbing issues... what do you guys think?

Hrm, the Tanabe DF210s drop about the same and I know someone with those and 18" Motegi FF7s, so I think so!

Of course, I still like small wheels. :P

uncompiled, did you have to cut the bump stops at all? is there a way you could post a scan of the instructions? if so thanks in advance :bow: and if not thanks anyway for the info!!!

I'm really considering either this or the Tien coilovers, but I've had bad experiences with regular coilovers. I'd rather go for a set tuned suspension rather than adjustability.

Does anyone know where's the cheapest site to get these for? Tire rack has them for 615 and I was pretty sure they were much cheaper than that before...

uncompiled, did you have to cut the bump stops at all? is there a way you could post a scan of the instructions? if so thanks in advance :bow: and if not thanks anyway for the info!!!

No, I didn't have to cut the bump stops. There weren't any instructions either... well, there might have been, but if there were, they were in German...

They used to be about $550 from TireRack. I actually paid $560 shipped to my house, but H&R raised their prices.

uncomplied, are you still here? I'd like to ask a few questions because this kit appeals to me.

BTW, I'm on steel with lower than stock tires (195/50/15). I won't be able to close wheel gap all the way because these tires already lower the car 1/2" and also--- increase- wheel gap by the same amount.

But, with a kit like this I can fine tune the drop. My car is stripped of rear seat and runs unloaded of cargo most all the time (just me in the xB).

Q: Do you suppose my xB would be better off with this kit than with any of the drop-in lowering springs?

I can see now that even if I drop two inches (plus the 1/2" drop of the F1 tires), I'll be scraping at times. The adjustable feature should prove its worth, then, to let me tune the height and level as I go along and scrape once in a while.

R: the H&R Kit is not adjustable. It has lowering springs and new shocks/struts that are designed to work together. This is more appealing to some people than buying a random set of springs and shocks and hoping they work well together, or just putting the lowering springs on the stock dampers.

If you are looking for an adjustable setup, you want to look at coilovers, which is what I have on my car. I have the Tanabe S-OC Type II: http://www.tanabe-usa.com/coilovers/s-ocII.asp

The ride height is adjustable with coilovers. Depending on what setup you get, you might be able to fine tune the damping of the shocks as well. Let me know if you have other questions.

Thanks Kevin! I confess that I missed seeing your input right above my last.

Yes, I think if I were to go the tuned way, I want some adjustablitiy because I don't know how low I can live with.

Those new tires that I'm on already drop the xB 1/2" from the stock height.

yes, the idea of having a drop adjustable +/- the two inch drop appeals to me.

much obliged if you can tell me -how much drop do your Tanabe S-OC Type II's really allow you. According to the webspecs, the rear drop is only, like 1.5". Not enough for me, I think.

cheers,
Reid

tein ss , or cusco vacanza's will drop you nice and low reid. close up that wheel gap nicely.

tein ss , or cusco vacanza's will drop you nice and low reid. close up that wheel gap nicely.


Dunno, Darren. Being on steel with short tires (195/50/15), there is
an awful lot of gap to close up.

The tires alone increased the gap by a half inch
The car is one half inch lower to the ground already.

May be that I won't find drop greater than Tein S's 1.5" very usable-- so i really don't know how I'll be happiest in the compromising. This is why adjustablity appeals.


-this car is stripped of rear seats and normally carries only myself. If I go adjustable then it will be easy to pick up the rear if i need to load the car for a long trip or that sort of thing.

-I want to keep my car light and nimble but not have it ride too stiff. The F1 tires, being low profile, already give the car a lot of detail in the ride... not objectionable to me at all; but rougher than on the Eagle tires for sure.

--So... am thinking/hoping adjustable coilovers can be found that'll give my relatively stripped xB a flat cornering, taut but not jouncy ride.

In the end I -may just opt for basic springs-. Will always have wheel gap, though.

here- just to show the huge wheel gap off. nevermind the mis-matched cover colors. Was trialing Fusoin paints that day.

http://img108.echo.cx/img108/43/creamoryellow0po.th.jpg (http://img108.echo.cx/my.php?image=creamoryellow0po.jpg)

Reid: Tanabe's site says the rear drop on the S-OCs is only 1.5" but I would say it is more like 2". I didn't measure the height before so I don't know exactly how much mine dropped, but I don't have a big sub box or anything else heavy in the back that would cause the springs to sag.

With my rears adjusted all the way down, my car is as low if not lower out back than many xBs I have seen with regular lowering springs. The ride quality is also much better than stock; the S-OCs are designed for street use.

http://img145.echo.cx/img145/518/p10003033we.th.jpg (http://img145.echo.cx/my.php?image=p10003033we.jpg)

While the rear is adjusted all the way down out back in this shot, I still have room to go down about another 1/2" up front. This creates a nice front rake. But when the coilovers are slammed down like that, ride quality suffers.

tein ss , or cusco vacanza's will drop you nice and low reid. close up that wheel gap nicely.


Dunno, Darren. Being on steel with short tires (195/50/15), there is
an awful lot of gap to close up.

The tires alone increased the gap by a half inch
The car is one half inch lower to the ground already.

May be that I won't find drop greater than Tein S's 1.5" very usable-- so i really don't know how I'll be happiest in the compromising. This is why adjustablity appeals.


-this car is stripped of rear seats and normally carries only myself. If I go adjustable then it will be easy to pick up the rear if i need to load the car for a long trip or that sort of thing.

-I want to keep my car light and nimble but not have it ride too stiff. The F1 tires, being low profile, already give the car a lot of detail in the ride... not objectionable to me at all; but rougher than on the Eagle tires for sure.

--So... am thinking/hoping adjustable coilovers can be found that'll give my relatively stripped xB a flat cornering, taut but not jouncy ride.

In the end I -may just opt for basic springs-. Will always have wheel gap, though.

here- just to show the huge wheel gap off. nevermind the mis-matched cover colors. Was trialing Fusoin paints that day.

http://img108.echo.cx/img108/43/creamoryellow0po.th.jpg (http://img108.echo.cx/my.php?image=creamoryellow0po.jpg)


vacanza's go over 3 inch in the front and about 3 inch in the rear

Hi Kev,

I see. I have rake in the car now that I don't want. It does not show in that picture. Now that the seat is out I estimate the rear is about an inch higher than the front. Would like to have a level car when done.

Darren: I find a bare mention of vacanzas in this thread.
http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5262&highlight=vacanza
will look for more. Google does not bring up a hit yet on that name.

am lost in ConfusionLand :P

but it's ok! fun to be learning from you guys with experience under your belts.













I wonder if your bellies are all scraped up too? :rofl:

Yeah I would have to concur that Tein S-techs drop about 2.2 inches in the front, maybe about 1.7 rear... I've had a few scrapes now on the underside of my front lip. I'm getting 215/45/17 tires that will raise me up half and inch or so, and fill the wheel wells out a tad more.
If you think the S-techs are too low then look into the H-techs.

Cusco Vacanza Wagon coilover kit... http://www.intakeone.com/Cusco/VW_coilover/sicon04upXB_VWcoilover.html

Cusco Vacanza Wagon coilover kit... http://www.intakeone.com/Cusco/VW_coilover/sicon04upXB_VWcoilover.html

$$$ spend that looks like sex.

say, I know I'm dense but how are these specs supposed to read (I put the numbers in bold)



Cusco Pillow ball front upper mounts, high performance design.
Spring rates- F: 3.5kgf/mm, R: 3.5kgf/mm.
Height adjustment- F:-80 ~ -45mm, R: -85 ~ -55mm.


does it mean: 45mm. minimum drop/ 80mm. maximum drop?
and in the rear, 55mm. minimum drop/85mm. maximum drop?


Q: what is "pillow ball" vs. standard construction? What's the benefit? Anyone here have pillowball upper mounts?

King, thanks for the lead and info

SciFly I went here... http://www.scionlife.com/parts/?part=10103 for a Review.

PM Username BraveLittleToaster for more info on the Cusco Vacanza Wagon Coilover Kit.

Cusco Vacanza Wagon coilover kit... http://www.intakeone.com/Cusco/VW_coilover/sicon04upXB_VWcoilover.html

$$$ spend that looks like sex.

say, I know I'm dense but how are these specs supposed to read (I put the numbers in bold)



Cusco Pillow ball front upper mounts, high performance design.
Spring rates- F: 3.5kgf/mm, R: 3.5kgf/mm.
Height adjustment- F:-80 ~ -45mm, R: -85 ~ -55mm.


does it mean: 45mm. minimum drop/ 80mm. maximum drop?
and in the rear, 55mm. minimum drop/85mm. maximum drop?


Q: what is "pillow ball" vs. standard construction? What's the benefit? Anyone here have pillowball upper mounts?

King, thanks for the lead and info

yep u got it right 45-80mm drop. pillowball basically lasts longer than standard rubber strut caps. theyre also camber plates. so you get camberplates in addition to coilovers.

Hey SciFly, you're probably not gonna want to the get H&R cup kit, because there is a definate rake to it...

... also, you've got a lot of work to get rid of that wheel gap. Cusco is reputable and the camber plates are definately an added bonus. Pillowball mounts are going to give you a little more road feel. They're not as compliant as the standard mounts, so as long as you're not worried about ride quality, go for it.

Thanks again for these inputs.

So, the pillowball mounts give me control of the neg. camber I get from dropping? That means a lot, right? Camber increases in direct proportion to drop?

When we lower without the pillowball mounts, then you what?gotta have camber kit and where does that go?

-i don't want to wear you out with basic questions. Isn't there some sort of informational article on the web about how these things work? Starting with stock struts and going deep into the finer kinds of replacements.

dizzed!
reid

pillowball mounts are basically an aluminum replacement for the upper strut mount. stock mounts have rubber in them and the rubber flexes which affects your handling, side effect is a firmer/harsher ride and usually a slight "clunking" noise over bumps. the mounts prevents your alignment from changing under hard cornering. camber plates or pillowball mounts , http://www.intakeone.com/images/Cusco/cs_sp5.gif have the adjustment ability to change your camber by sliding the top of the strut, in, towards the engine for negative camber and ,out, towards the fender for positive camber. another way to adjust camber on a macpherson strut is adjustment bolts, http://www.tirerack.com/images/suspension/search_susp/medium/ing_3542.jpg. quote from tirerack.com "Replaces either the top or both the top and bottom strut-to-spindle mounting bolt(s). Positive or negative camber adjustments are possible by positioning the FastCam finger tab (located near the head of the bolt and stamped with a number). Finger tab of the upper bolt faces twoard the engine for negative camber changes, outward for positive. Simply rotation the head of the FastCam will adjust camber +-1deg. For extra camber adjustment, the lower bolt weill be positioned and simultaneously adjusted (rotated) opposite of the top to achieve +-2deg total adjustment." the last way i know but not the safest is slotting the strut
http://users.ameritech.net/trdcelica/crashbolts.jpg. quote from se-r.net "Where the arrow points, slot the hole it goes through in the strut (not the hub). The bottom of the strut usually has one or two bolts attaching to the somewhat square bracket on the strut. The bolts run along the horizontal axis parallel to the ground. The idea is to put a slot with some arc to it so that the suspension is allowed to pivot on the strut, thus giving you a camber setting.
If you do this, make sure you tighten the bolt up very tight so it doesn't slip...." not the best way but its free. oh, yeah there is another way. you can actuallty slot the holes in the strut towers to allow more camber but i really don't recommend that at all.

macphereson struts(scion's) do not usually camber as much as a double wishbone(honda) setup. thats why nissans, scions, etc. do not have crazy negative camber like hondas do when slammed.

the reason cars have neg. camber when you lower them is because its built in to the suspension geometry. yes, it is supposed to camber under load . as in cornering, but not designed to be that way all the time, as in drop springs. imagine this is the bottom of your tire(really quick and ghetto) that contacts the road while driving in a straight line. l__l when you are cornering the suspension underload will compress causing negative camber. the tire will actually look like this /__/ . the suspension, on the other side of the car not underload will depress and cause positive camber. the camber lets the tire stay in full contact w/ the road. now when you drop a car you are simulating the suspension under load at all times, which in turn causes negative camber at all times. hope this answers your question.

If you're not into camber, it is almost negligable for the xB suspension. I think mine was about -1 degree of camber after lowering 2.2". On my Integra, it was like -3 degrees after a 2.5" drop.

yeah xb's dont get much camber which is good. but yes ithe camber plates can negate that .