Well ever sence i bought the xB i always put the cheap stuff in there.... from BP to Exxon to 7-11 gas.... what ever was the cheapest.... But i notices when at idle, and when i give it a lil "goose" it would knock for one or two firings!! well the other day, just for grins, i filled up a entire tank of primium BP Amacco fuel.... drove around on about half tank of the "good stuff" and noticed that the goosing knock is gone, and the motor seems to run smoother! I think i even heard it say "thankyou!"... It maybe in my head, but i truely dont think so.... i know higher octaine will reduce gas milage and power, but the over all feel felt so much better! So i guess i'm spendin the extra $2 a tank for the good stuff.....

Your car should NEVER knock. Something is wrong with the gasoline or your car.

Octane number is a measurement of how much the fuel will resist pre-detonation. Plain and simple.

If you car is designed for 87, then 89 or 92 or 105 octane will not give you even ONE more horsepower. Anyone who tells you different is ignorant of the facts. It's not "better" for your car, 87 octane has the same detergents in it as the premium stuff these days.

Don't kid yourself. Premium fuel is for cars that require it because they have high compression or a turbo-- period.

I laugh at people who put 92 in their Civic thinking it will give them 10 more hp. Premium gas will give you as much extra power as stickers do.

It is definitely in your head. Guaranteed.

You should go to your dealer if the car is knocking AT ALL.

Ok, he said it helps it with the knocking, which it most certainly can. He never said it increases horsepower.

its the additives...i use chevron with techron 87 and have no problems...and yes what he said before...he sounds smart lol

You should go to your dealer if the car is knocking AT ALL.
I forgot to say that there are other things that can cause knocking, too. So you should take his advice and go get your car checked out.

Running high octane fuel on a car designed to run on 87 without any adjustments will not yield any power gains.

However, if you are determined to run only premium fuel in the future, you can advance your timing to take advantage of the higher octane and can gain power this way.

I'm speaking from general car knowledge... the rule holds true for just about everything non-boosted, but the adjustment can get trickier on some cars.

-Justin

i use cheveron as well seems to work best for me....when i go to rotton robbies my car seems funny ....i think its the addatives as well ..there always trying to addd some thing th e other guy dont have..

Sad i have to quote myself!!


.... i know higher octaine will reduce gas milage and power....

And i know in perforance i'm losing out.... but i DO KNOW the knocking is gone when i run high octane.... and the knock happens when i'm idling (say at a bank pull through) and when i goto leave, i "goose" it real quick (about 75%-100% throttle). And the knocking is from a sudden leaning in the fuel mixture... If i had to guess.... it might be a cause of that rubber band that toyota puts in the throttle.... the nice 1.5 sec lag on the gas pedal.... I've been trying to find ways to remove that....

Wow...keep on spending for premium on your engine that runs best on 87.

The gas companies love folks like you.

As long as you use decent quality regular ole 87 octane from a reputable known station (i'm not talking miguels gas and go down the street) your car should be fine.

(say at a bank pull through) and when i goto leave, i "goose" it real quick (about 75%-100% throttle). I hope you don't bank where I do! :rofl:

Not having to buy premium is one of te main reasons I sold my Audi and bought an Xb. Gas prices are on taking leaps and bounds lately and I can't afford the extra octane. I <3 cars that take a lower octane gas.

$2.00 for premium????? Its like $2.50 for premium in san diego, it's $2.20 for regular. you lucky.........

Sad i have to quote myself!!


.... i know higher octaine will reduce gas milage and power....

And i know in perforance i'm losing out.... but i DO KNOW the knocking is gone when i run high octane.... and the knock happens when i'm idling (say at a bank pull through) and when i goto leave, i "goose" it real quick (about 75%-100% throttle). And the knocking is from a sudden leaning in the fuel mixture... If i had to guess.... it might be a cause of that rubber band that toyota puts in the throttle.... the nice 1.5 sec lag on the gas pedal.... I've been trying to find ways to remove that....
Well as I said in my last post...I think its the additives. I used to use cheap gas (racetrack blah blah bs) and it did that exact thing. Seemed to run very crappy. I believe it clogs the fuel injectors. Chevron adds things to their gas to keep it clean and to run clean. Now maybe since you used the more expensive gas they have additives to their higher grade but not thier lower grades. Phew that was long :relief:

$2.00 for premium????? Its like $2.50 for premium in san diego, it's $2.20 for regular. you lucky.........

He said he spent an extra $2 a tank....not $2 a gallon, I think. It's about $2.10 a gallon in Indiana, but it fluctuates alot daily.

premium is high high for my cheap arse

Racetrac gas is the WORST! I got bad gas from them and I had premium in a Nissan Spec-v I had last year. PING-Ping!! sounded awful. My husband is a auto technician and had worked at a couple of shops that sold gas. Many get the gas from distributors that get cheap stuff with additives that you won't find in your brand name gas. I would not buy gas at costco or racetrac or those other places with the cheaper prices that could damage your car.

87 from BP for me.

$2.00 for premium????? Its like $2.50 for premium in san diego, it's $2.20 for regular. you lucky.........

He said he spent an extra $2 a tank....not $2 a gallon, I think. It's about $2.10 a gallon in Indiana, but it fluctuates alot daily.

I just found out that in London, gas costs ~$5.60 a gallon!!!

$2.00 for premium????? Its like $2.50 for premium in san diego, it's $2.20 for regular. you lucky.........

He said he spent an extra $2 a tank....not $2 a gallon, I think. It's about $2.10 a gallon in Indiana, but it fluctuates alot daily.

I just found out that in London, gas costs ~$5.60 a gallon!!!
I thought the had by liters...

$2.00 for premium????? Its like $2.50 for premium in san diego, it's $2.20 for regular. you lucky.........

He said he spent an extra $2 a tank....not $2 a gallon, I think. It's about $2.10 a gallon in Indiana, but it fluctuates alot daily.

I just found out that in London, gas costs ~$5.60 a gallon!!!

Thats because they tax gas even more in europe than we do. Most of the price of gas is taxes. Please thank you city (sometimes),county, state, and federal gov't for each taking their cut. Some gas companies used to post the price pre-tax, but they made them put the price up after taxes. They don't want you to know the real price. On average the tax percent is 54%. So you pay over a $1 gallon in taxes. :tap:

Your car should NEVER knock. Something is wrong with the gasoline or your car.

Octane number is a measurement of how much the fuel will resist pre-detonation. Plain and simple.
Correct
If you car is designed for 87, then 89 or 92 or 105 octane will not give you even ONE more horsepower. Anyone who tells you different is ignorant of the facts. It's not "better" for your car, 87 octane has the same detergents in it as the premium stuff these days.
Not always, but most of the the difference is in brand not Octane.

Don't kid yourself. Premium fuel is for cars that require it because they have high compression or a turbo-- period.
And 10.5:1 is low compression? The highest compression I can think of at the moment on a stock car is 11:1 so I would say 10.5:1 is the high end. Funny thing, I remember when anything over 9:1 the general consensus was you had to use higher octane to prevent knocks(especially in the summer), not saying this was correct, just one of those everybody knows things...
But if Toyota in it's wisdom says 87 is fine then thats what you should use.
I laugh at people who put 92 in their Civic thinking it will give them 10 more hp. Premium gas will give you as much extra power as stickers do. I laugh at Civics.
It is definitely in your head. Guaranteed.
"guaranteed", gosh that word just never looks right.
You should go to your dealer if the car is knocking AT ALL.
agreed..

Here's a better reason to use the recomended octane...Octane, by definition, is the resistance to burn or detonation. The higher the rating, the slower the burn when ignited during the compression burn cycle of the piston. The higher octane allows for better control of burning for high compression engines. So we want to match the correct octane rating of the gasoline to the engine design to ensure complete burning of the gasoline by the engine for maximum fuel economy and clean emissions.
When you use a fuel with a higher octane rating than your vehicle requires, you can send this unburned fuel into the emissions system. It can also collect in the catalytic converter. Not burning all the fuel is pretty much a waste of all your extra money you are spending on higher octane fuel, and if any of the fuel is burning up in the exhaust system you get soot all arount your exhaust system.

I don't know how to jump into this subject, it is always a hot topic.
I will try to explain why I use high octane gasoline.
ONLY from big makers of the stuff like Mobil, Shell, BP.
First off, I would use the lowest, cheapest gas my car will PERFORM with. Unfortunately, I drive all my cars like I just stolen it. (5 speed) Top speed 112 @ approx 5900 rpm, avg mpg 31, mixed driving, mostly very hilly, still stock wheels, engine. I also do not like my knock sensor to have to function, I like to do it if possible and correct the conditions. I have, 93 octane, no more knock.

The design of most cars today are made to function on the worst possible gasoline. The bright side is they were also made to peform. The creation of the knock sensor allows everone to be happy. If you notice on page 118 & 119 in the box book, it explains the function of the knock sensor, well not really.
It works from vibration from the multiple explosions going on in the combustion chamber under heavy load/demand. A slower burning gasoline,( low octane). The engine needs to knock for the knock sensor to sense what is going on. Knocking is the sound of your pistons getting several wacks at a time insted of one. Not a good thing.
That is why yout can sometimes hear it. Once the brain box gets a pre detention signal it retards the timing until it goes away. Sometimes it can't go far enough, so you go to the dealer who will manually turn it for you to give it more room in the low octane gas zone.
Unfortunately, most brain boxes today are created to develope memory over time,
(Toyota tuners step in please). It learns based on driving conditions, gasoline quality, drivers easy, or stomping foot. It will learn to stay towards retard or advance, based on its repeted information form air flow sensors, tempture, oxygen sensors, ext...
This is why someone who has used low octane for 3000 +miles puts in his firs tank of high octane and doesn't notice a thing. Sometimes worse gas millage.

Premium gas is roughly .20 more. I figure I will need about 300 gallons of gas for my box in one year. That is about $65.00 a year. Or 1 month for dish. No biggie for me.

Toyota tuners, What is the compression ratio?
I am guessing it is about 10-10.5 to 1.

Rob

:eyebrow: i hope u can awnser this one what about those fule aditive in the stores do thay do anything for the car... u usualy put in one fule injecter cleaner per month is this good or bad?? what about the octan boosters and the 0 -60 booster whats up with those are they any good??

I am not a beliver in additives. I can not prove all, but I can dis prove several.
Older cars can use a good fuel system/ injector cleaner with some good results but you should always change the oil after it runs through.

I have had no luck in my 1.8 GTI powered 1970 VW bug with drop in boost additives.
After the turbo went on last year, and I lowered the compression, backed off ALOT on advance. I still get a little knok. Now when I'm at the track I'll add about half 108 octane to 93 pump gas. I can get way more advance with no knock.

Along the lines of maufacturer recomends: We must remember that Scion as well as all car manufactures, are in the business to sell cars. Therfore, a low end car company or most all manufactures will NEVER tell you to use premium gas, or change the oil more often. They push the mark to keep operation cost low to sell cars.
If they didn't, companies like Consumer reports would tare them up, and no one would buy the cars.

So use you box book wisley.

Rob

Congrats on th placebo effect - I'm glad you like wasting money, it helps the economy.

:eyebrow: i hope u can awnser this one what about those fule aditive in the stores do thay do anything for the car... u usualy put in one fule injecter cleaner per month is this good or bad?? what about the octan boosters and the 0 -60 booster whats up with those are they any good??

Nothing wrong with putting a name brand fuel injector cleaner in, like Chevron Techron. Once a month is excessive, but it shouldn't hurt anything. Don't waste money on octane boost.

If you get your gasoline from Chevron or ExxonMobil, BP or any of the big gas stations then there is already a patented additive package in the fuel, you should not need any fuel additives at all.

If you read the owners manual, or know anything about the car you will see that the compression is 10.5 to 1. You can run 87 oct. but the computer retards the timing in order to run. I have never run anything under 91 oct. and I have never had another echo or scion even stay close to me, if you want real fun you can run 104 oct. race gas, smells good too.

and the knock happens when i'm idling (say at a bank pull through) and when i goto leave, i "goose" it real quick (about 75%-100% throttle).
i think you have more to worry about than your 'pinging'...

ok if you think your car is knocking, it shouldnt, take it ti the dealer. yor car should be under warranty

dont waste your money with high octane. just let the dealer fix it because if you say your runnin high octane they wont be able to diagnose the problem untill the car is full of 87.


warranty is your best friend. thats why they are new cars. they come with warranty.

An Ode to Octane

If you want to know what octane you need,
Its 87, yes indeed. :wink:
But if higher octane seems better than low,
then go ahead and waste your dough. :rofl:

If you read the owners manual, or know anything about the car you will see that the compression is 10.5 to 1. You can run 87 oct. but the computer retards the timing in order to run. I have never run anything under 91 oct. and I have never had another echo or scion even stay close to me, if you want real fun you can run 104 oct. race gas, smells good too.


The computer does NOT retard the timing to run on the recommended 87 octane, nor does it advance timing when you fill up with 91.

Imagination is a powerful thing. Have fun with your race gas. :rofl:

If you read the owners manual, or know anything about the car you will see that the compression is 10.5 to 1. You can run 87 oct. but the computer retards the timing in order to run. I have never run anything under 91 oct. and I have never had another echo or scion even stay close to me, if you want real fun you can run 104 oct. race gas, smells good too.

Really? on www.scion.com it has it as:

Compression ratio 9.6:1

maybe you have the wrong forum...or maybe i do!!!

I'm skipping ahead here and this may have already been answered, but would like to chime in (to at least reinforce it):

Your vehicle is designed specifically with a certain octane in mind. If its designed for 87, you should use that. In addition, using an octane much higher than that called for in the engine is more than just a waste of money, it can be harmful in the long term. High octane fuel with too low a compression ratio and the wrong spark timing may not burn completely. These can lead to deposits building up in the combustion chamber that ultimately can cause "hot spots" (and plug fauling) that can cause detonation if you try to go back to the fuel the vehicle was designed for. As such, you can become an "octane junkie" creating a need that shouldn't be there in the first place and is not providing a performance advantage. Now regarding performance, if you DO want to run higher octane fuel, you should see if there are any chips designed for that engine to alter the timing. You can gain a modest amount of power that way. *note* I don't know of any vehicles that can recognize a higher octane fuel and alter the ignition timing accordingly. And while most can and do pull timing when used with too low an octane, this is typically in response to a quite insensitive knock-sensor from what I know.

Regarding detergents: The law also mandates a minimum amount of detergents in each octane regardless of the manufacturer (these actually all come from mostly the same refineries and the various distributers take care of how well its transported, the additive packages, distribution, etc). They put the same detergents in their high and low octane gasses. Remember these are required by law and its not cheaper to come up with two different pacakges. And there is no mid-grade octane produced by the way, it is simply a mix of high and low octane fuel to arrive at the middle-ground with an appropriate middle-ground price.

HOWEVER, you may not be experiencing a placebo effect here, and I do believe you that you are experiencing a better performing and smoother running engine... the reason is because you mention you were experiencing detonation with the correct fuel. Something is wrong with your car. Please bring it in to the dealership and demonstrate the knocking. Typically this sounds like marbles shaking around in a metal can (is this what you hear?). Get that fixed and then use the proper fuel and you should be good to go. :) You may wish to try 87 at a different station though, as its possible you just got one bad tank. If you aren't sure what good fuel is, see: http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html

I just use whatever the manufacturer suggests.

If the manual says use 87 octane, that's what you should use.

Otherwise, you're just wasting your money.

I've got some beach front property in Nevada I can sell you. Reeeeeeal cheap too!

:rofl:

j/k. Hey, it's your money.

i use to fill up my xb w/ 91 untill my walet started knocking...
stay with 87 man...

Ducman hit the nail on the head.

If you car is running better on 91 octane then something is wrong with your car.

once again, more clarifaction.... i never said my car would never work on 87 octane.... it runs fine.... but for some reason, the car seems to have a small amount of drivability added when you use higher octane.... but yes, it's my extra $2 i spend... (1.89 for cheap, $2.08 for high).... but i've been running low octane for 28k miles so far.... no problem (except a small knock every once and a while) and i put a total of 4 tanks of high end stuff.... a few times changing between to make sure it wasnt a fluke.... say what you will.... but i feel it does do a small amout better..... plus i like how i get more (your stupid) reactions than that one guy who drives w/o his seatbelt.... i guess fuel is more important :rofl:

Some people post too lenghty of replys. FYI
I always use BP 87 or Quiktrip 87.
No need to waste money

there are other considerations when choosing octane as well...
Brand, temperature, humidity, altitude, and drastic weather changes are also something you might take into consideration...

most people who don't experience much of a difference live in nice dryer climates.. unfortunately I live in jersey/philly/delaware area... close to sea level with lots of humidity and wind... so i run better then 87...

if your car knocks check the oil, you might be running a little low...

there are other considerations when choosing octane as well...
Brand, temperature, humidity, altitude, and drastic weather changes are also something you might take into consideration..
Today's cars have complex 3d fuel and spark maps and the MAF or MAP will handle any issues with variations in air density and temperature. The manufacturer takes all this into account when setting the required octane. Oh well, some people will remain convinced that higher octane = better because its more expensive.

I've got some beach front property in Nevada I can sell you. Reeeeeeal cheap too!

:rofl:

j/k. Hey, it's your money.

... really!

I've got some beach front property in Nevada I can sell you. Reeeeeeal cheap too!

:rofl:

j/k. Hey, it's your money.

... really!

ohhh hahahaha there is no ocean in nevada.. i think :) :doh:

$2.00 for premium????? Its like $2.50 for premium in san diego, it's $2.20 for regular. you lucky.........

Regular just went up from 2.23 last week when i put in and now its 2.29. By summer, its going to be 3 for 87. Sad. Gives me a reason not to drive around and get a full time job and maybe even overtime. I want to enjoy my summer and my moon/sunroof.

just hit 1.99 for 87 here in NC Wilmington.

plus i like how i get more (your stupid) reactions than that one guy who drives w/o his seatbelt.... i guess fuel is more important :rofl:
well i guess we can call that 'natural selection' ;D just wait for your catalytic converter to fry from all the unburnt gas and you start knocking with anything but premium. enjoy your 'drivability'

Sorry it took so long for a reply, in my manaul it says 10.5 to 1, and 2 years ago running 104 octane I ran a 15.8 in the quarter, and just for the record i have tried 87 several times and the car runs like crap!

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2005/echo/specs.html

look at for yourselves, the specs have not changed since 2000, i did not realize that it was different for the scion

xB and xA = 10.5:1 Tc = 9.6:1 so both are right you just have to say which vehicle you are talking about. Just wanted to chime in.

doesnt the manual say that the MINIMUM Octance to use is 87??? Minimum.

Some people just never learn.

Go for it guys, fill up with 92. Actually I think you should go to Pep Boys and buy some 105 Octane Boost. That should get you up to 115-120 hp depending on how many stickers you have on your car.

If i had to guess.... it might be a cause of that rubber band that toyota puts in the throttle.... the nice 1.5 sec lag on the gas pedal.... I've been trying to find ways to remove that....[/quote]


my car has a lag in the throttle also i step on it and it takes like 1-2 sec before it goes this is not a everytime thing i dont believe this is normal and as for a hard idle i get a hard idle when are stops i will try the premium idea but only to reduse the idle if not frank toyota is getting a call!!! and one more question does your stock suspension ride rough? mine is a sport feel like its dropped anyone get these probs?

grrr double post but i read the 105 octane post about the sticker!!! ha ha aha ha

chill out... yello was just stating what comes out of the manual... it reads:

Unleaded gasoline, Octane Rating 87 (Research Octane Number 91) or higher...

that's all he's saying...

Some people just never learn.

Go for it guys, fill up with 92. Actually I think you should go to Pep Boys and buy some 105 Octane Boost. That should get you up to 115-120 hp depending on how many stickers you have on your car.
Unfortunately that "octane booster" only raises the octane like 1/10th of a point in reality (found that out the hard way). Now if you had a barell of toluene... :D :crazy:

xB and xA = 10.5:1 Tc = 9.6:1 so both are right you just have to say which vehicle you are talking about. Just wanted to chime in.

I was quoting for TC sorry _I_ was in the wrong forum (edited my previous post)!!! :( :crazy:

doesnt the manual say that the MINIMUM Octance to use is 87??? Minimum.

well you minimally have to eat a certain number of calories to stay alive, that don't mean you eat more just because it is more than the requirement.

Well is some is good, more is better.... then too much should be enough.... i wonder how Cam II Purple would do? :rofl: screw 97 octane.... 114 all the way...lol


JK... hey if i wunna run higher stuff, so be it, it's my money..... if it is a placibo, thats fine, atleast i feel better

why do people care what gas you run........do whatever you want

Well is some is good, more is better.... then too much should be enough.... i wonder how Cam II Purple would do? :rofl: screw 97 octane.... 114 all the way...lol
JK... hey if i wunna run higher stuff, so be it, it's my money..... if it is a placibo, thats fine, atleast i feel better

hey we each gotta figure things out in our own special way ;)

i dont tihnk u would be buying premioum gas if u seen gas prices in NyC

True, some gas companies affects the engine performs. I noticed a drop on pickup, reaction to acceleration , etc. with gas like HESS...I change over to Mobil, Exxon and the car seems more "Preppie"...Hess, Citgo, Racetrac, Costco, ain't going near that stuff!!! :no:

I thought when you do buy 92 petro, it cleans your engine. Well technically it doesn't clean, but it's a cleaner burn compared to your normal 87.

I thought when you do buy 92 petro, it cleans your engine. Well technically it doesn't clean, but it's a cleaner burn compared to your normal 87.

actually false since more fuel is most likely to not be burned.

hmmm... i see...

Difference between Shell V-Power and Chevron Techron 92?

Sad i have to quote myself!!


.... i know higher octaine will reduce gas milage and power....

And i know in perforance i'm losing out.... but i DO KNOW the knocking is gone when i run high octane.... and the knock happens when i'm idling (say at a bank pull through) and when i goto leave, i "goose" it real quick (about 75%-100% throttle). And the knocking is from a sudden leaning in the fuel mixture... If i had to guess.... it might be a cause of that rubber band that toyota puts in the throttle.... the nice 1.5 sec lag on the gas pedal.... I've been trying to find ways to remove that....

Why do you have to "goose" it real quick? Just curious...

to make a lil bit faster jump from a stop (no not a drag start) ..... you "goose" or "blip" the throttle so it does a quick jump to about 2k, then release the clutch while applying throttle..... just a faster way of getting the RPMs to the point were you can get going, w/o chugging the motor @ 700rpm till clutch is released....

I hate to ask the dumb question here, but...It seems the place to do that.

I have, for most of my twenty five years of driving, used the mid grade.
In certain cars, I noticed that when I used lower octane, it would indeed, knock. So, I figured the mid grade was not such a bad thing.
Part of the reason I used mid grade, was having worked at a fill up station, I can tell you, more 'crap' settles to the bottom of gas tanks then you know. Lower octane sells faster, thus those tanks get empty, from time to time (when you see a pump OOS, that is why...the tank is dry)...

And the crap can come up the pipe to your car, despite filters and all. So, like I said, I use the mid grade.

And, here is the question. Is it a bad thing, to use the mid grade? I have never really thought it was, until reading this thread. And thinking back to how I just (before I sold it), I had to replace the CC in my nB. Maybe that was because I used the mid grade...(although, the nB really wanted a higher grade gas; it said min of 89)

Please, don't flame me here. This is something I want to know.
Thanks.

This is what I have heard in several forms over the years... But I've had occasion to change several fuel pumps on cars that were over a decade old.

I never found any of this sediment in the tank - not did I find a the in-tank filters clogged with gunk despite the cars having been run on low-grade gas for over 10 years.

If a chunk of crap makes it theough the tank filter, then through the pump, then through the nozzle and finally into your tank, it is not going to make it through through your in-tank filter, fule pump, fuel lines, fuel filter, and injectors. I dismiss this as a complete wive's tale.

-Justin

last statement on this. I just went on a road trip. I put in 6 gal. on 92 and 5 of 110 sunoco race gas. I had 4 people in car and a loaded trunk. I know have 420 miles on this tank and still have a quarter left, so you tell me it makes no difference.

Why in the world would you do that to begin with?

pretty much off topic but i remember when i use to look at the gas prices and it read $.98 for premium....ahhh those were the days...too bad i didn't drive then

http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/bsmeter.gif

I've only had two vehicles that automatically adjusted their timing, based on per-cylinder ping sensors, to the maximum advance permitted by the current fuel and operationg environment. Those are the only two vehicles I've had that could run just fine on regular, but would run even better on premium. For other vehicles, even avgas shoyuldn't make any real difference in performance if the engine will run on el-cheapo.

As to things 'getting through the filters and injectors, etc., it DOES happen... Seattle Times Article (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002286154_badgas24m.html?syndication=rss)

Lastly, when I was running my '55 Chevy I used to like it when there was a 'gas war' and gasoline would get down to $0.18 a gallon sometimes... :D (Normally it was just over a quarter.)

ok going back on to people who only read the posts they wunna read, and skipping what was really meant to be said.....

I NEVER said i had an increase in power, matter a fact i even said there might even be a loss in power!!! All i said, was i like how it just ran smoother. And with gass prices now, $0.15 difference between reg and primium, with a 10 gal tank..... i can spare the $4.5 a month wasted....

:yawn:

"Lastly, when I was running my '55 Chevy I used to like it when there was a 'gas war' and gasoline would get down to $0.18 a gallon sometimes... :D (Normally it was just over a quarter.)"

Wow!! Someone else that remembers like I do. I remember driving through Dallas back in the late 60's with a 68 Toyota Corona. I had bought gas at the edge of town cause I figured it would be cheaper than in town. Reached my destination and there was a corner with 4 gas stations and big "Gas War" signs. It was .17 per gallon, I had paid .32 :P
Me thinks them days are looooong gone.

Walt

holy old thread resurrection

holy old thread resurrectionI fear, young Robin, that our arch fiend, the Joker, is behind this dreadful threads return...more to the pity.

To the Batcave!

http://forums.newbeetle.org/images/smilies/batman.gif

yeesh. i work for Toyota and there are a small handful of cars that they manufacture that require premium unleaded: celica gt-s, corolla/matrix xrs, landcruiser, and the new avalon (if you want it to pull it's reported 280hp and 31mpg).

The whole idea of the higher octane gas is that it BURNS SLOWER, which means that small 4-cylinders with less hp need not worry about using anything but 87 unless you've got a supercharger or a turbo.

As for the 'knock' (or lag, cuz that's what i think you are confusing this 'knock' with) when our original poster puts the pedal to the metal, as it were, that's most likely the traction control holding back the throttle so your wheelies don't go a-spinnin'...

but i don't know, i only sell these things for a living...

not sure how many of you read the little label on most every car made today so I will show it to you again

unleaded fuel only

now it is still one week till i get a scion of my own but if i were a betting man I bet this label would be somewhere in the manual, around the gas cap, and the fuel door. This is an important label because leaded fuel can do bad things to the modern car. For example Clog injectors, fuel lines, catalitic converters etc.

I am not a mechanic myself but a friend of mine is a service technician for toyota and helped me fix all these problems when i tried to put CAM 2, 110 octane racing gas in my big bad dodge intrpepid. I thought it would make it perform better higher mpg and make the car last longer, since the manual said 82 octane or higher. Big mistake.

Remember don't use leaded it is bad

Your car should NEVER knock. Something is wrong with the gasoline or your car.

Octane number is a measurement of how much the fuel will resist pre-detonation. Plain and simple.

If you car is designed for 87, then 89 or 92 or 105 octane will not give you even ONE more horsepower. Anyone who tells you different is ignorant of the facts. It's not "better" for your car, 87 octane has the same detergents in it as the premium stuff these days.

Don't kid yourself. Premium fuel is for cars that require it because they have high compression or a turbo-- period.

I laugh at people who put 92 in their Civic thinking it will give them 10 more hp. Premium gas will give you as much extra power as stickers do.

It is definitely in your head. Guaranteed.

You should go to your dealer if the car is knocking AT ALL.

when i had my old car before i had over heating problem she ran fine on 87 octane and after her over heating problem blew a few freeze plugs and a head gasket had the heads milled so that bumped the comp ratio up some i don't know to what but ever since i tried to use 87 octane she would PING like hell!!! and after all that so i had to force feed :lol: her 93 octane and she was fine with that and no more pinging no matter how well i tuned it she still pinged on 87 octane the owners manual recomended to use 91 low lead octane and yes when i had the heads off i had 'em install hardened exhust valve seats and i used the lead additive octane boost (all in one :) )

Something is wrong with his spark timing setting (it's a computer, thing, right? Perhaps the -knock sensor is disconnected-???

Dunno! BUT the opening post in this thread makes perfect sense. Let's define knock, taking the data directly from Sir Harry Ricardo's famous book, "The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine"

I can hardly overstate how basic and seminal his research was. He identified the cause of spark knock and created the modern combustion chamber design. His work was incorporated into practice just in time. Due to the increased efficiency of Ricardo head design the famed Liberty engine helped us win the first world war.

I'll see if I can find Mr. Ricardos' book and quote his definition of knock. What is detonation? It's something very well understood now for more than ninety years. He was the master on this subject.

--more later--

So is costco gas bad for my car? I don't want to experiment for myself if one of you can tell me.

live in hawaii... premium is for the uber rich...