Hi guys.

I've been lurking reading on the forum for a while, as I've been interested in possibly replacing my Ford Focus with a Scion xB as a daily driver (I'm Ducman69 on both Focaljet, www.focaljet.com, and Corvette Forum, www.corvetteforum.com btw if anybody browses those too). Got to test drive one and I'll admit I'm not used to a car this slow in a straight line, but as an OVERALL car/truck/whatever its pretty sweet and I'm definitely digging the practicality and what I hope is a really low operating cost (tires, gas, insurance, etc)! :) And unlike some other "utility" vehicles, this xB actually has some style to it. I've seen most of these topics brushed on in several threads, but was wondering if you could help answer some basic questions I'm sure most n00bs ask when looking at the car:

1) Reliability: Are there any differences in reliability between a 2004 (cali only release right) and 2005, which quarter release etc? With the Focus for example, there were lots of little issues with the first year ones (I got lucky for the most part, many others didn't) that were worked out later. What are some of the common issues w/ these? Fuel pump, paint, rotors, radio, yada yada?
2) Economy: I already searched tirerack and tires are cheeeeeeep in that size. :D I assume Scion is like Toyota and will last forever w/o any real costs. How is y'alls insurance? And for fuel economy, what can one REALISTICALLY expect? It'd be 3/4 city and 1/4 highway about 80mph for me (I know the EPA estimates can be off really bad for some cars). Reason I ask is that I find myself revving higher than I'm used to, and that may negate some economy.
3) Pricing: I understand that apparently Scion has some sort of "true pricing" kinda like Saturn. What is a realistic out the door price paying cash for a new one (I'm in texas)? I assume there are additional fees on top of MSRP and TTL. Is there any advantage to getting one off the showroom floor to having a special ordered one made just for you?
4) Quality: I heard the tC's have some issues with little rattles developing here and there. What about the xB? Have you found any small issues that you'd like to see addressed in 2006?
5) Likes/loves: What do you like most about your xB as you've gotten to drive it more and more? :)

Thanks in advance for the help! :ponder:

OH BTW, one last question... I really want to upgrade the wheels to alloy 16s or 17s... but my concern is how that will affect performance since its already a low power vehicle. I Know on the Focus you can tell a big difference between stock 15" and wider 17" wheels, and that was 130hp stock. Or are there some particularly light 16s or 17s that are popular? Thanks!

1) reliability - don't know, just got it Feb 12th :)

2) Mileage is better than my old car (Previa DX), and somewhere between 25-30. This is mostly city driving.. I'll let people know what happens when I drive 800 miles to boston in two weeks :) If you drive 80, you're not going to get great mileage in a car that revs 4k rpm at that speed. That's just how it goes. Do 65-70 and it'll be better.

3) Mine was 15245, plus 160 for the document fee (someone said you don't have to pay this... someone being www.carbuyingtips.com), plus 35 dollars for the plate transfer, plus 500 for GAP. I also got an extended warranty... I'm not sure if I should have done that or not, I feel like I shouldn't have. BTW, this is for a 5-speed, absolutely stock (not even mats.. I got rubber ones since I live in the mitten). Mind you, that 15245 is the sticker price, the MSRP. That's what you pay, unless I'm mistaken. That's what I paid. My insurance is something like 112 a month, and I can probably trim it down by nixing some comprehensive. Mind you again, that's also including my renter's home insurance.. it would have been 2 dollars a month less without renters :) And I've already reaped my 'over 23 years of age' insurance drop.

4) Rattles, yep. Squeaks, shiffles, shuffles... mine has one in the back of the hatch isn't shut real well, and some squeakies in the dash, but that could be my cd's in the glovebox. I'm not sure what to say... I'm going to rip my dash apart so I'll probably create/remove more rattles. It's not really that annoying, though. Roads around here bite; your car makes noise no matter what. Stickshift is kind of long. Comfortable. Radio's decent... beats my old car, not as hyper-bass-heavy as my dad's sienna.

4) cont'.d.... Well, it's real nice, actually. For 15k, it's totally deal.

5) My old old car was a big wedge/box. People thought it was awesomely cool in a bolivian terrorist kind of way. My old car was a Previa, which people thought was cool since it looks like a jellybean. My current car people either go "OH MY GOD" or think is cool. They say, "Oh my god! HAHAHAHAHAHAAH!" but seem to think it's cool. If you have the guts to buy a strikingly ugly car, not just an ugly (ahem.. new hyundai/subaru) one, people like that. It's got plenty enough power (if you want a race car, don't buy a car with a 108HP engine, duh), drives nice on the highway (only car i've been able to stand going 80 in 'sides the sienna), nice mileage, and it's got this weird cult following it :) It's also frighteningly small, yet cavernous. I can park it in compact spots, yet I feel like I'm one of those arched-ceiling McMansion great rooms that people like in their houses.

RELIABILITY - I've had a manual 2005 xB since October and now have 7500 miles on it, so you'll probably need someone with an 2004 to post regarding reliability - and even then, the car is still really new. However, like you said - its a Toyota and that's one of the main reasons I bought one. So far, no problems. Regarding 2004 vs. 2005, since the car was released in Japan as the bB before it was introduced in the States, I'd venture to guess that many of those little niggling things that come with a brand new entry would have been worked out.

ECONOMY - You won't get the EPA ratings but I average 30mpg + with my stock wheels and around 28-29mpg with my 17" Kazera rims (from Tire Rack). I try to shift at approx. 3000rpms unless the car is cold, when I shift at around 2000rpms. with the 17s on I rev a bit higher in lower gears to make up for the increased sluggishness the heavier wheels bring. (about 60% of my driving has been highway) My insurance went up about $20 per year from my 1998 Dodge Neon Sport coupe.

PRICING - You will pay what is on the sticker plus a document fee - mine was $100, unless you buy additional accessories, which can vary by dealer based on what they charge for installation. I added lowering springs and shocks/struts which ended up being about $900 installed. I don't believe that there is an advantage to buying from the floor unless time is what you're worried about - getting the colour and transmission you want may take some time to find/have delivered.

QUALITY - I have one small rattle in the passenger side dash and have heard of others with this issue. Its been there since day one but only when someone sits in the passenger seat. I'll have it looked at when I take the car in for the next oil change. Other than that I have had no rattles.

LIKES/LOVES - I'm 6'4" and the biggest thing for me is the interior room. I also love the manual transmission because its just plain fun to drive. The reason I got a new car is because my old one was stolen, along with $750+ worth of CDs so another thing I love is the MP3 player Pioneer head unit - I now carry the same amount of music, but fewer CDs in the car and all of them were burned by me and could be burned again if lost/damaged/stolen. I also recently moved house and the cargo capacity with the rear seats folded down is great for such a small car. And finally, as lame as this sounds, I really love the little grocery hooks on the back of the front seats...they're great for hanging lightweight shopping bags, an umbrella, your girlfriends purse (so her make-up doesn't spill out all over your floormats...) etc.

Hope this helps.

1) Reliability: Not to worry. This is a Toyota. Reliability is not an issue. I've been driving my 04 for almost a year now about with 14,000 miles I have had no problems at all.

2) Economy: I average about 30 mpg, but I have a bit of a lead foot. The only thing that really seems to hurt mileage is driving over 80 mph for sustained periods. I suspect thats because of the short final drive (4.30) that keeps the revs high at those speeds. If you get a 5 speed and drive sensibly, you will do well. Insurance should be relatively low on these cars, it's classified as a 4 cylinder compact wagon by most insurers and wagons are cheap to insure.

3) Pricing The Pure Pricing is pretty simple. I paid $14,750 for an xB 5 speed with XM radio and the rear bumper applique as my only options. It was an easy decision as this car is a ridiculously good value at that price.

4) Quality: Build quality is excellent throughout IMO. The car is far nicer than anyone has any right to expect for $14,000. I wish the rear doors were a little heavier, thats probably my only complaint, but again for a $14,000 car it outclasses anything for the money.

5) Likes/loves: The amount of room inside is a never ending source of amazement for others. People are blown away when they realize they can sit in the back and stretch out their legs. Although it's not a rocket, I still find it great fun to drive, the suspension is tight and with the stick shift you can really have a blast on a windy road with it. Love how easy it is to park in a small spot and how it will swallow enormous amounts of cargo.

I love the fact that it is essentially a parody of an SUV. It's boxy shape almost pokes fun at the big beheamoths on the road while doing just as good a job (or better) of hauling people and cargo while getting 30+ mpg doing it and not making terrorist nations rich and needlessly filling the skies with excess pollution.

It is hands down the most practical single car I've ever seen. Period.

I suggest some light 16" wheels. There are plenty, try tirerack.com. 16's are much more practical for a car this size, they are lighter, less expensive than 17's and will deliver equvilant handling with performance tires without a punishing ride.

Sweet! Thank you for your replies! Great info. :)

WOW! I had a focus ZX3 for little over a year and it was on a rollback 3 times and at the dealer another 3 times for problems they could never seem to fix. The ones they did fix were repeatedly fixed. Same part kept dying and so did it's abillity to run.

I've had my XB for over 5 months and have gotten an oil change and have a rattle from the speedo that they have a fix for but haven't gotten around to fixing yet. So in my opinion the Scion is the way to go. I still get recalls for my focus I haven't owned for 3 years. Ford will never get my business again.

Well I recently bought an 05 xB. I too am on the corvetteforum as I own an 04 Z06. I can tell you that the xB is unique enough to let you forget about its straight line performance. It gets about just fine in traffic, but don't plan on too many stoplight races. :)

As far as reliability goes. It is one of the best in this area. In fact 2005 Consumer reports just ranked it as number ONE in reliablility! Above Lexus, Honda and everything else... This was based solely on the xB.
Resale value will be high because the reliability and the rising gas prices... you can't go wrong...