Well I'm thinking about ditching the Golf again. The toss up is a cheap second sports car (DSM or Corrado) or getting something "new" that gets good gas mileage.

Options right now seem to be a 2002, 2003 Civic EX/HX or a new Scion xA. The Civic offers, well all the things a civic does, solid reliability, interior resale, bla bla. Sadly it has a stiff second hand price and well bland boring exterior looks. On a good note the 117hp HX gets 35/40 and the 127hp EX gets 28/38mpg. Both fine numbers and both cars have good pep (well haven’t driven an HX yet).

Scion on the other hand is new and looks good. Full warranty and what not. Also rave reviews from the reviewers (CR and CG). It also gets good fuel mileage, 30/40. Sadly it’s a bit pokey and I fear it will suffer the same fate as my Golf. My Golf packs a whooping 115hp and boost 24/30mpg. However in the city it gets 23mpg and on the highway it gets 23mpg. This is because its lil' engine must buzz away at 4,500rpms to keep it cruising at 75mph. Will the xA suffer the same fate?

I would stand to save $120 a month in any car that averages 34mpg in mixed driving. I will also be doing LOTS of highway driving coming summer and next semester. My GF is changing schools so I'll need to visit her and I intend to visit friends this summer.

Toyota Celica is another thought (30/40mpg) however they have STIFF resale, nearly 13k for a 2000 with 80k miles. I'm looking for a sporty fuel sipper that will offer problem free ownership and have good resale. Shame tC isn’t a little more conservative and a few grand less.

Also, anyone figure out how to lower the xA seat so you feel your riding IN the car and not ON it?

(PS: I'm only intrested in a Auto for many reasons).

at 75mph, the xa's rpm will be at about 4000.

i get around 26mpg regardless of city or highway travel.

i hopt this info helps you.

i get around 26mpg regardless of city or highway travel.

*stake to the heart*

I've been averaging about 30-33, using 87 octane, and I almost always drive 10-20 above the speed limit (80mph on the highways, and 35-40 on the city streets). I do know that putting on larger wheels will hurt mileage, so I'd stick with the 15's if you get one. . . I have the OEM 15's, as well as TRD springs, and a short-ram intake. Dunno if that affected mileage

The xA with automatic transmission will turn @3000 RPM at 70 MPH. Figure about 3200 to 3250 at 75 MPH. Thus far since about 1 Nov and 2300 miles of mixed driving I am averaging between 35 and 36 MPG with my xA w/auto. I do expect the fuel mileage to improve upon the arrival of warmer weather. However, I cannot speak to fuel mileage at interstate speeds in the wild west as I rarely use the interstate. Backroads are more interesting. The seat is fine. I have used a cushion for my lower back for the vehicles I have driven for several years now but have yet to need it with the xA. But I am accustomed to the seating position of pickups and a jeep. The most questionable thing about the xA for distance driving is the springing. Every tar ridge will announce its presence.

I got my xA in mid sept..... 16k on her now. Constantly driven in a mildly excessive behavior. Things like setting the speedo @ 78 and staying there for a couple hours. Then pounding through traffic and lights in town. I'm running 15" rims and stock rubber right now. Also have installed TRD shocks, struts, and springs. With the 5 speed, my OWNERSHIP average is 33mpg. Worst take was early on @ 29. But that was a speed run from Duluth, where I chased a Grand Prix @ 100plus for 20 minutes or so... The best was a tank @ 35 where I made all my shift points, played nice in traffic, coasted to stops gently with out hammerin' around.

I say buy the xA !!!!

I've had mine less than a week, but got 32 mpg on the first tank. Combination of local roads (50 MPH) and highway (70 MPH). It can only get better as it breaks in .

NJTrout

Not to talk you out of a Scion, but have you considered a Golf TDI?

I had a Jetta TDI and it delivered on the promise of 49+ mpg every day. Not only that, but the diesels are quicker than you think. A TDI will feel at least as fast as the 2.slow you had, has the torque of a V6 and the mileage of a hybrid. No Scion can touch the fuel economy of a TDI.

Only reason I don't have another TDI now is that I wanted something different than a VW after 4 years and the new Jetta was not out yet. The old Jetta is too small inside for me and the Passat TDI was a bit more than I wanted to spend and automatic transmission only.

My dream car would be an xB with solid feeling VW doors and thicker sheetmetal and a nice powerful turbodiesel lump under the hood. High-strung little 4 cylinder gas engines NEVER deliver the promised mileage and neither do hybrids, but diesels are the real deal.

Something to think about...

from what i gathered

if you do a header axle back and an intake system you'll lose some on the city mpg and gain little bit more on the highway mpg

just don't keep your foot glued to the floor :wink: and you should be fine

i get 26mpg the most with stock 17 inch rims.

sticking with smaller wheels/tires (like the OEM 15's) really help mileage, or so I hear.

and with the 15 inch rims you get a slightly softer ride too unlike those 17-18 inch rims

so i've been told/what i've read on here

with a mix of highway and city, and at about 70 mph on the highway, I get an average of 35 mpg. About he same highway and city. probably because of the gear ratio (manual tranny) in 5th gear. I would prefer better mileage and less torque/preformance. my daughter can get about 45/50 mpg in her auto Echo on the highway. If you go for an xA, take both an auto and manual for a test drive on the highway and comparethe tach readings of both at 65 mph.

I do the absolute worst kind of driving as far as mileage is concerned. 90% of the time, when I start the car, its for less than 4 miles with several stops along the way. The car never gets a chance to fully heat up (though the blue light goes off). Then every weekend I tend to do a mix of similar short trips and 1 or 2 highway trips of ~40 miles each way. That's urban life for ya. Anyway, my worst tank is 27.5mpg and my best is 31. I am a relatively sedate driver. I imagine if I did a lot more highway driving, I'd be seeing 35-38 easily. All my miles have been on California winter blended fuel as well. It should improve and non-winter gas hits the market.

In similar conditions, my Neon would get 24-25 average. I think my wife's Integra is getting 26 or so.

I Get ~28 mpg around town, driving it aggressively, and on the highway, it depends 100% on your speed, if you cruise at 80-85 mph, you can expect to get ~28 mpg, if you cruise at 55-60 you can expect 34mpg. I have taken several trips on a smooth back road with a (heavily enforced) speed limit of 45 for 100 miles and have gotten 40mpg. Are there better alternatives for mileage, you betcha, but no matter what vehicle you buy nowadays, the EPA numbers assume you go the speed limit, so they are inflated. Plus the xA is so inexpensive , it'll take you a long time to get your money back if you were to buy a prius or a diesel something or other, even at 3$ a gallon.

I've decided to stop worrying about gas milage...

I was doing some math for this car thing since the word on everybody's lips these days is gas mileage:

Assuming $2 per gallon gas, over 50,000 miles you will spend $4348 on a car that gets 23mpg and $3030 on a car that gets 33mpg. So, 23mpg vs 33mpg or any two cars with a 10mpg difference over $50,000 will save you $1318.

Now $1318 isn't chump change, but spreading that out over the 4 years that it will take most people to drive 50,000, and the $$$ probably aren't as significant as say a lower insurance rate, or lower initial cost (a $15,000 vehicle versus a $20,000). Every little bit counts, but a lot of those hybrids sure don't look like such a good deal now.

But if everyone was driving a vehicle which would make 33MPG and drove in the manner which would give 33MPG it is possible that the price of gasoline would go down. Then one would be saving even less in money tho saving more in gasoline. So to save more in money we want the price of gasoline to go up. Logic fails me.

I don't know if this theory holds water, but it seems the less gas we use, the less money oil companies are making. They are used to making a certain amount of profit, and will raise prices to continue making those profits. Even the most fuel efficient hybrid uses gas, it's not like we can stop cold turkey.

When it comes to gas prices, we are at the mercy of the companies. They'll do what they have to to make their profits, and all we can do it feel good for hugging a tree by saving a gallon here and there. This is America, we drive gas powered cars, and we pay at the pump regardless of our milage.

but no matter what vehicle you buy nowadays, the EPA numbers assume you go the speed limit, so they are inflated.

Speed limit here in Montana is 75, not 65 or 60. EPA numbers need to be per state, not uniform for the entire country. So, for states that have above-average speed limits, mpg is even further from the EPA statement. I average 19mpg in mixed driving in my car, yet according to EPA I should get more like 24mpg in mixed driving...

-spec

I don't know if this theory holds water, but it seems the less gas we use, the less money oil companies are making. They are used to making a certain amount of profit, and will raise prices to continue making those profits. Even the most fuel efficient hybrid uses gas, it's not like we can stop cold turkey.

When it comes to gas prices, we are at the mercy of the companies. They'll do what they have to to make their profits, and all we can do it feel good for hugging a tree by saving a gallon here and there. This is America, we drive gas powered cars, and we pay at the pump regardless of our milage.

Believe me, I'm an economist, and the theory is absolutely true. The problem, however, is that demand for gas, based on price, is rather inelastic. Rather, in recent years, the price of gas has increased, and more and more Americans are driving SUV's, and high hp cars. . . go figure. It all adds up to more profit for the oil tycoons. Yes, the trends is FINALLY starting to change, but change is slow. In Europe, 1.5L engines and smaller are common place, as their gas price is nearly double of ours. . . we may be heading in that direction in not much time.

So to reply to your statement, the reason the price of gas does not decrease, is that gas consumption has not substantially decreased. . . any potential decreases have been offset by gas guzzling behemouths. Blame the most progressive state in the USA (California) for making SUV's so popular. Secondly, world demand for oil is at an all time high, in a HUGE part due to the exponential growth of cars in China. Think about it, it's the most populus country in the world, and they are going car crazy.

Sorry to be going slightly off-topic, but years ago I owned a '85 Renault Alliance. You know, the rung of the ladder just barely above Yugo. "The one to watch", yeah right!

That thing had a 1.4L engine and 4spd manual. It would get 40mpg all day, every day, even if you drove it like you stole it {I did drive it that way!} It had 167,000 miles on it when I traded it in.

I don't think the car would sell well today, it was just too slow. Still seems odd to me that more cars haven't been made available with significantly better overall average mileage than my car had 20 years ago.

I just went over 10,000 miles on mine with the auto. trans. and I've averaged around 34 MPG. I drive mostly freeway at 70 MPH.

I'm happy with my RS 1.0. I bought it as a commuter car and it does it well. My commute is about 90 miles round trip and the seat has never bothered me. I actually like the more upright position. I can see what's going on up ahead, unlike an escort ZX2 I once owned.

I just did my mileage on my second tank of gas, and I got 33.6mpg. All I did was I made all my shifts at 3k rpms, and tried to avoid flooring it.

I agree with Road warrior, the upright seating is a big plus for me too. It feels like riding in a small truck with racing seats

On a flat road averaging about 70 mph I calculated 38 MPG parkway driving. I don't believe all the gas mpg on other cars, they'd all average about the same as the xA.

Anyways, if your so concerned about gas mileage, buy a used Honda Insight. Or you can do like me and get a 4 cylinder that averages 17mpg (STi).

Wasn't this all covered about 3 months ago when you asked the last time?

BTW my wife's getting 36.5 mostly city around 45 to 50 mph with quite a few lights and a train. Drive it nice you'll be repaid. Drive it like I do and don't be upset when you ONLY get 26 (My truck/ Best it's EVER gotten is 20mph straight freeway. If I'm feeling cocky it's about 12)

Why you'd even consider a used Honda or another VW is beyond me. It sounds like your more concerned about status (in the played out honda, or yuppi'ish VW) than milage. Your still buying the cheep 87 octane stuff anyway. Try having a 50 mile round trip drive to work every day and being required to get Prem (Yeah read that $2.35 a gallon currently) for a beast of a truck (not my s-10 but a Lightning)
$56.50 a fill up, lasting 6 total days driving to work. $282 a month in gas ($360 a month at $3. a gallon)
Saving $210 in gas with the xA for me.
My wifes xA? $22 lasts 9 days for that same drive to work. $74 a month in gas
Trade off? The Lightning has 4 times the power of the xA and I really like it. (running a 1/4 mile in a xA at over 20 seconds has no happiness for me, running it in 12 is pretty friggin fun.)
Once again saving $120 a month in gas is nothing if your payment went up $150 and Insurance goes up $50 a month.. (not that I know your Ins rates but I'm just saying) I looked at the Lightning and said "Hell it gets almost the same milage as my current truck was getting". However the Payment is double and that is worse than it getting 9mpg.
Attempting to get an idea of where your going to be MPG waise from asking other people is never going to put solid numbers down for you to base stuff on,

My xA gets 33 mpg. I drive hwy miles mostly. I did get a small increase in mileage when I added a cold air induction unit. Sure wish I got the 40 mpg the EPA estimated for hwy mileage. :)

The EPA estimates are not designed to tell you what mileage YOU will get. Tests based on different states max speed won't help. The EPA test is designed to be uniform across carmakers. It is so you can compare one car to another without having to figure in other factors. Think about the debates on dyno testing, is the hood open or closed, was there a fan blowing, etc. Without a testing standard, we would be comparing cars along the lines of: Toyota tests with the hood open, Honda has the rear windows cracked, Ford tests in a wind tunnel, so make sure to factor in those differences before you compare the MPG ESTIMATE... See how confusing it would be.

If you look at the fine print next to the big MPG numbers on the Monroney sticker, you'll see it says the range that people generally got in reality and almost all of us are getting something within that range.

The only car I've ever had that consistently met the EPA estimate was my Jetta TDI (turbodiesel) EPA est was 42/49 and I regularly got 49-50. I got as high as 54 mpg on a road trip which was all highway driving and I'm not a slow driver (70-80 mph)

Diesels are simply awesome. The deliver on the MPG promise when nothing else does, especially hybrids.

I would give my left nut for Toyota to bring some D4-D cars here!