TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

I've the feeling I may've run out of reasonable possibilities for boosting N/A low to midrange performance. Outside of wrapped header and "S"-pipe, insulated 3" CAI, bypassed TB "coolant" heating, ported TB, light weight crank pulley (dynamic performance only and I'm not comfortable with undersize), the perhaps controversial benefits of a smooth bore TB spacer (), and a 2-1/2" dual "scuba-back" exhaust, what's left? (Yeah, I know there's an expensive optimized "chip" solution available, but expensive isn't a good fit for me .)

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

Oh, yeah, I should mention, I'm not into replacing the "scuba" tank. That may well be an advantage for high rpm performance, especially turbo, but I just don't see it for low to mid-range N/A -- the 1.75" outlet is not far from my original Eclipse 2" turbo exhaust piping and it made 195 HP no problem. I'm getting some 50% more than that now from various mods, but the pipe after the cat is still 2".

FromTheOld

Gut it. Or lose weight

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

I agree with FTO, lighter is faster. Unfortunately shaving a few hundred pounds ain't easy. OTOH adding a turbo kit is relatively easy but not inexpensive. 220 ft lbs of tq at 3800rpm is a lot of fun though!

What's this optimized "chip" you speak of? Surely not the 5 whp with 93 octane for $500 Unichip? Surely not another IAT resistor "chip"?

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

Well, I just added 28 lbs in the form of a trailer hitch, but the idea there is purely utilitarian (as is the spare tire ). As for my weight, according to the bathroom scale I'm under 140 lbs as it is, not sure I want to do much better than that !

I totally believe it is !

I was thinking of the Unichip, though I wouldn't want to be forced to a higher gasoline octane regardless.

My neighbor seems to strongly believe in "chipping" for improved performance, but I'm not sure he's ever done it himself. He mentions what other P/U truck owners have said.

Here's a test article I ran across:
http://www.carperformancechipreviews.com/

And another:
http://www.engineperformancechipreview.com/reviews.html

Thinking of the GTE, check out this eBay offering and video:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda...-/250742506406

This site has a better price, install PDF, plus other toys :
http://www.performancechiptuning.com...mance+Chip/11/

I gather "Stage 1" is an IAT mod and "Stage 2" is an adjustable rear O2 sensor mod.

A few more videos:

Lastly, an article by Popular Mechanics:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...ileage/1802932

I'd love to learn of something at an affordable price that actually worked, but no, $500 for 5 WHP doesn't hold that much appeal for me !

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

It appears that lightening the XB or yourself is not a viable option.

Boost is best! ...but $5k is a lot to invest in a <$20k car with little to no resale value improvement.

The Unichip is a good N/A piggyback but as optimized as the Toyota ECU already is, there just isn't a lot of room for improvement. Unfortunately the Unichip doesn't offer O2 sensor signal modifcation, mostly just more ignition timing advance. It does have a switch to toggle between 87 and 91 octane timing maps though.

"Chipping" can and does work great. The greatest improvement is for turbo cars since the boost psi can be raised. The biggest problem for Toyota owners is that the Toyota ECU code is un-cracked and they change it frequently to prevent it being cracked/hacked. While most manufacturer's ECUs can be re-programmed, the best you can do with a Toyo is to alter ECU sensor signals, which is not as effective.

"Stage I" chips do as you stated. They simply alter the IAT signal which tells the ECU that the incoming air charge is colder/denser than actual. This causes the ECU to run more ign timing advance and add more fuel. The problem is that in closed loop (CL) the O2 sensor feedback overrides the extra fuel and returns the AFR to 14.7:1. The optimal air/fuel ratio for emissions is 14.7:1. The optimal AFR for torque is ~13.5:1. You may still get the extra timing advance but now you're relying heavily on the knock sensor to detect pre-ignition and/or detonation and retard the spark accordingly. IMO, small hp/tq gains at best with small loss of mpg.

"Stage II" chips are more promising but have their own problems. I'm running a "stage II chip" of sorts, the Split Second Enricher. It's essentially a O2 sensor signal modifier. When my MAP (manifold air pressure) transitions from vacuum to boost it activates and skews the primary wideband O2 sensor signal telling the ECU that the AFR is too lean. The ECU responds by adding fuel resulting in a AFR of 12.5:1 (adjustable from 12:1 to 14:1). This works great for CL boost but how to trigger it when N/A? The SSE includes an internal MAP sensor and in theory can be set to activate at 4 in Hg vacuum but you'd have to ask SS if that's a viable option since the device is designed for boost applications. You could also use an external trigger such as a TPS activated switch to activate the SSE at whatever TP you'd like to see 13.5:1 instead of 14.7:1.

Having said all that, the big problem I see with the "stage II chips" you linked to is that none of them appear to include a 'switch'. Without one the chip would be active all the time changing your actual AFR from 14.7 to ~13.5. Great for power, not so great for mpg, emissions or your cats, despite their snake-oil claims of increased mpg.

Now as if I haven't said waaaay too much already, I must add that I don't know how much hp or tq can be gained from a N/A 2AZ-FE by altering the AFR from stoich (14.7) to 13.5, only that theoretically there should be a gain. In my case most of the unburnt fuel from running richer than stoich AFR is added to reduce combustion chamber temps to compensate for boost. If you're interested in pursuing AFR enrichment as a means of adding hp and tq, PM me and I think we can figure something out.

I loved that Popular Mechanics article although I think they missed the mark on water/meth injection. WMI is a great way to greatly reduce IAT, combustion chamber temps, boost octane and make more power. They simply showed that injecting water alone adds nothing.

Whew...

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

BTW, I find it very interesting that chip review #1 rated GTE best and noted that Engine Performance Power Chip was a "possible GTE knock-off with poor instructions" while review # 2 said the exact opposite. It was also very interesting to see how many "chips" actually lost power and mpg. Interesting but hardly surprising.

So much for the credibilty of those chip reviews, IMO. Jet Chip was well rated by both but I was warned against them by TC1 owners who said that they add nothing.

purrkee

Good see your in B-more.You may have seen the teal xb with Tsudo dual
exhaust?

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, that was part of my point with those links, there's a lot of inconsistency, which suggests to me that here and there a "chip" offering may actually have some benefits, but it very much depends on the specific car. Jet may "work" on one, but not another, likewise GTE. I searched reviews on both the recommended "chips" and both have thumbs down reports. I guess on the positive side, at least they typically appear to provide satisfaction guaranteed return policies, obviously though, not products one can be sure of when ordering (despite their seeming to have one for practically every vehicle ever made )!

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Hey Hon! What part of B-more you live in? I'm southwest of the city in BC. I recall seeing a gold RS 5 in my hood but don't recall seeing your teal box. You ever see my NBM around?

By far the best "chips" available are the ones that replace or allow tuning the ECU tables and especially on factory turbo cars. This is where the chip makers get their big HP/TQ improvement claims from. Since the ECU controls the boost pressure, they can raise the boost and easily add big power. Not nearly so much on N/A engines. Since all you can do to a Toyota is alter a few sensor signals, there isn't a lot to be gained. With others like Honda and VW you can actually re-tune the ECU.

FromTheOld

Well, Jet Chip had a little scam going for the Supra community where they would claim to do this and that, and slap on their label, but everyone in the Supra community knows that our (or their ) ECUs can't be reflashed. I wouldn't trust them on anything else.

You may be able to regrind cams for cheap, head port work yourself, and get a cheap piggyback and learn to tune it yourself properly. Those are the cheap stuff that can help, along with changing the rest of your exhaust. It gets expensive from there...

As for your 140 lbs, chop off any un-needed arms and body parts for lighter weight!

DJ_FroZone

iTrader: (2)

i have the unichip which i thourghly enjoy. i do notice a difference the few times ive had to take it off. the chip stock is worthless but using it the i/h/e combo i have it def is a boost. and there is also a difference between 87-93 which is how mines mapped. call it or not. my mpg went up quite a bit when i switched to the 93 setting. and i have proof. i did the same 3 hr trip on 87 did about 267 on the tank driving 6-70. did it on 93 and went 304. no variance in trip or gas station and so far its held up i hit 300 easy now on a tank. however when i do stomp it that gas does drop. so there is something to be gaind from the chip. there was a thread on here ages ago about that chip and the dyno runs to prove it. im sure someone can find it. other than that


camshafts? my buddy replaced his on his pontiac so maybe we can too?

DJ_FroZone

iTrader: (2)

aslo whats is porting? i've heard that before too

mixD

Porting can be done to like the intake manifold and cylinders in the engine it takes out all the little ruff spots inside to make the air flow or cylinder movement more clean and high flow. if you port the cylinder though you will more than likely have to get new bigger piston heads. but a port and polish on a aftermarket intake manifold can make for big power gains if done right

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

The only further porting I'd consider would be the head, about all that's still untouched, but that fuel enrichment idea is interesting. Anybody know if our ECU ever goes open loop except at cold start and deceleration? I would think the only other possibility would be WOT, but it may continue to monitor the wide-band even then. Though, perhaps under heavy load it enrichens already! Did you analyze any of that during your adventures Fred? I'm suspecting you already have all the instrumentation necessary to observe exactly how the ECU behaves under load in N/A.

CIONIDE

iTrader: (1)

Of course I can.
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=186368

Unfortunately, all the dyno charts (page 5 of the thread) have been deleted from photobucket, so you can't look at them anymore, but from what he said the most significant gains where below the top-end peak horsepower where they are much more useable on the street. The link in his quoted post below does take you to some #'s where you can see reasonable gains of +10% hp & tq with the unichip from 4800-5100 rpm as compared to the intake & exhaust #'s without the unichip. I'm guessing you might see more improvement on a car with a header also.

DJ_FroZone

iTrader: (2)

ya elway!!! i miss him. hes cool. but yea. hey cionide. next summer im touring in the box. im making it out to you.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Yes, our ECU enters open loop at a certain load level and enrichens the AFR to ~12.5:1. The point it enters OL depends on numerous factors but IMO it feels just about right for a NA DD. For boost it stays in CL a little too long for my taste which is why I added the SSE to compensate and why the FIC and other piggybacks include or offer an O2 sensor signal modifier for CL fuel tuning.

The more I think about CL enrichment for a NA application, the less worthwhile it seems. All you could really do is enrich the AFR a little sooner and maybe increase tq a bit sooner. The SSE costs $200 and likely wouldn't add much. Cams, valves and head work seem to be the ticket for the NA 2AZ-FE.

DJ_FroZone

iTrader: (2)

^^^ and im interestedi nthe cams/valvues thing. cause it might be more afforadble for me to do that.

this is a daily driver till it becomes an antique. i figure the more i can do N/a the more impressive it is to me and the less strain on the car itself. the way i see it 4gs over a year or two is better for me than 5g drop one time on a turbo. setup

DJ_FroZone

iTrader: (2)

I can def vouch for that. once i hit around 4k it just comes to life. it briefly reminded me of vtec. how it only really kicks in when u need it. i've toyed with it where i would from 3800-4200 and just listen to the tone change. its actually helps me stay at 60-65mph on the highway. i dont like the drone at 70 which is pushing into the late 3-4 range