Just some teaser pics of Matt's car pre-Exposed. Yes, the plates are ugly because they are prototype pieces... though it's not like there's much to prototype since they're so simple.. but it's always good to test first!

http://sr20.hybrids.jp/van/scion/matt_on_euroline_n/camber01.jpg
http://sr20.hybrids.jp/van/scion/matt_on_euroline_n/camber02.jpg
http://sr20.hybrids.jp/van/scion/matt_on_euroline_n/camber03.jpg

sick, just plain sick.
now how do you camber the front? Slot the upper strut mounting holes and run a narrowed strut bar?
mad props. m@

Maybe I am missing something, but where does the plate go?

VERY NICE!!!

Here are some more pics taken in SoCal.

These are from the Hotel parking lot.

http://thescionlab.com/images/My_xB/Hotel_ParkingLot_01.JPG
http://thescionlab.com/images/My_xB/Hotel_ParkingLot_00.JPG

more pics on the way


Peace,
m@

Maybe I am missing something, but where does the plate go?
between the rear suspension and the spindle

so, what, understeer is cool? where is the front camber?

The shims go on the rear hub assemblies, and angle them.

jackmott: understeer can be cool for people who aren't used to oversteer, too much of which will get the uninitiated into trouble. But to answer your question, front camber will come along with the short stroke coilover setup that I've been trying to work on building. Original goal was to rush it for the meet, but it's always a bad idea to rush anything major. Soon...

o.k. this might be a stupid question but i can't figure out why you want to put negative camber on your ride. is there a good reason for it? most people want to correct the camber not create camber. or am i missing something about this, this is the reason i am asking.

im gonna guess its the type of wheels that matt is running. i got a chance to talk to him(@eltoro) and he told me they are rubbing. get different wheels you say? heck no those are badass works! vive la camber!

negative camber if done correctly can help in handling also toeing in or out but at the same time your tread life will be cut in half while driving...daily

o.k. this might be a stupid question but i can't figure out why you want to put negative camber on your ride. is there a good reason for it? most people want to correct the camber not create camber. or am i missing something about this, this is the reason i am asking.

My question exactly...negative camber is NOT COOOL!

First of all, it gives you less traction, cuz only about half of the tire is on the road.

SECOND, since only half of the tire is on the road, only HALF the tire wears out.

i used to have a 62 bug that was slammed to the ground and if u know anything about swing axle bugs, as soon as u slam them u got more negative camber than u can shake a stick at. and still i ask WHY U WANT TO DO THIS? :?

Not my cup of coffee :? :? :?

o.k. this might be a stupid question but i can't figure out why you want to put negative camber on your ride. is there a good reason for it? most people want to correct the camber not create camber. or am i missing something about this, this is the reason i am asking.

My question exactly...negative camber is NOT COOOL!

First of all, it gives you less traction, cuz only about half of the tire is on the road.

SECOND, since only half of the tire is on the road, only HALF the tire wears out.

i used to have a 62 bug that was slammed to the ground and if u know anything about swing axle bugs, as soon as u slam them u got more negative camber than u can shake a stick at. and still i ask WHY U WANT TO DO THIS? :?


Because they find it cool and exciting looking while sitting still or parked showing there car..driving would suck big nuts....I think no camber or very slight camber looks great....like what BMW does with there cars on the rear wheels

The reasoning behind this is to gain tire-to-fender clearance with a wide wheel fitment. (Not to mention the sexy factor) Obviously, its not for everybody.. and that's fine by me. This is pretty conservative (4 degrees) compared to some Japanese tuners who are going as extreme as 12 degrees on their VIP Wagons!!!

Camber is king! (imo) 8)


Peace,
m@

The reasoning behind this is to gain tire-to-fender clearance with a wide wheel fitment. (Not to mention the sexy factor) Obviously, its not for everybody.. and that's fine by me. This is pretty conservative (4 degrees) compared to some Japanese tuners who are going as extreme as 12 degrees on their VIP Wagons!!!

Camber is king! (imo) 8)


Peace,
m@



No whats king is being able to drive with a correct amount of camber without any worries

No beating around the bush: for looks!
Actually, it is true that some negative camber in most applications does help with cornering. And there is a misconception that camber kills tires; it doesn't. Camber coupled with bad toe in or toe out will. Toeing is what causes the car to drag the tire along the ground at an angle contrary to the direction of travel. So if you camber your suspension, but can assure that you don't have extreme amounts of toe in or toe out, then your tires won't wear any quicker than if they were set up normally. They will wear at the same rate, the only difference is that the part of the tire that wears is the inside and not the whole tire. In which case, you can then swap sides and run the same tires twice as long :)

But, the main reason for cambering in these extreme cases is to get the wheel/tire setup to fit under the fenderwells. True, not everyone understands or accepts the look, but the results are usually universally accepted: bad ___ wheel fitment that is super flush with the fenders. I submit:

http://www.aero-tech.co.jp/garage-img/SEy33cima/2y33cima_f.jpg
http://www.fabulous.co.jp/domestic_car/toyota/popup/ist/images/01.jpg
http://www.fabulous.co.jp/domestic_car/toyota/popup/ist/images/02.jpg
http://www.fabulous.co.jp/domestic_car/toyota/popup/bb/images/01.jpg
http://www.fabulous.co.jp/domestic_car/toyota/popup/bb/images/02.jpg
http://www.junction.co.kr/junction/photo/4.jpg

hey VAN'S alive.! r0ck!

The reasoning behind this is to gain tire-to-fender clearance with a wide wheel fitment. (Not to mention the sexy factor) Obviously, its not for everybody.. and that's fine by me. This is pretty conservative (4 degrees) compared to some Japanese tuners who are going as extreme as 12 degrees on their VIP Wagons!!!

Camber is king! (imo) 8)


Peace,
m@



No whats king is being able to drive with a correct amount of camber without any worries


True... and that's exactly what Van and I are experimenting with. :D

Man I have always thought Junction Produce does a beautiful job with there work on there cars....everything is so clean

No whats king is being able to drive with a correct amount of camber without any worries

What's king is doing the work it takes to look nice when parked and to be able to drive the car regardless of camber, whether it be the 1 deg via factory, or 10 deg via aftermarket means. Most of my friends and myself drive various cars with wide wheels and tires, lowered stances, and more-than-stock amounts of camber daily on the streets, and at road race and drift events (hmmm, no drag racing though) and have had no problems for years.
:)

No whats king is being able to drive with a correct amount of camber without any worries

What's king is doing the work it takes to look nice when parked and to be able to drive the car regardless of camber, whether it be the 1 deg via factory, or 10 deg via aftermarket means. Most of my friends and myself drive various cars with wide wheels and tires, lowered stances, and more-than-stock amounts of camber daily on the streets, and at road race and drift events (hmmm, no drag racing though) and have had no problems for years.
:)


Hahaha you said no drag racing....good for you man....Road racing is king hands down....I like being able to enjoy myself for long periods of time not for just a few seconds like drag racing

wheres the pic with the precision muffler.com sticker matt? dam it I knew I should have put it on your car on thursday.

take your japanese style back to japan.

this is america, the land of camber correctors!


http://www.driftaholic.com/viplife.jpg

http://www.thescionlab.com/images/bB/Camber_00.jpg

Peace,
m@

Also... please understand that tire wear is not only caused by excessive camber... Camber is not the worst of you enemies in tire wear.

TOE IS!!!

At the track with the same daily setup and my tire wear is primo!!! Camber 2.5 degrees front, 3.5 degrees rear... 0 toe
http://www.onetongarage.com/nasa1.jpg

Now this car has ~6degrees of camber up front and ~4degrees in the rear and 0 toe up front and rear... tire wear is good all around... yeah it wears more on the inside than out... but you gotta pay to play!!!
http://www.onetongarage.com/heartwork.jpg

I guess it's all a matter of your styling taste... my cup of tea consists of as wide and as pimp as possible with a nice tasty lip!!! Oh and then I'll make them fit!!! Sorry to bomb this thread with s14 pics... but I don't have a Scion yet :wink:

the camber looks nice. tire wear will be bad, but great for looks.

I like the look but definitely not a daily driver. It is Hell of SICK :D

thank you for the replys, i was not trying to cause an arguement, i thought there would be a better explanation for doing this, it is not my style but if you like it.... ROLL WITH IT MAN!!

i like those wheels on the s14 :shock:

o.k. this might be a stupid question but i can't figure out why you want to put negative camber on your ride. is there a good reason for it? most people want to correct the camber not create camber. or am i missing something about this, this is the reason i am asking.

My question exactly...negative camber is NOT COOOL!

First of all, it gives you less traction, cuz only about half of the tire is on the road.

SECOND, since only half of the tire is on the road, only HALF the tire wears out.

i used to have a 62 bug that was slammed to the ground and if u know anything about swing axle bugs, as soon as u slam them u got more negative camber than u can shake a stick at. and still i ask WHY U WANT TO DO THIS? :?
well i followed him most of the way and he still gets a lot of tread on the ground
plus that is the trueJDM VIP LOOK

take your japanese style back to japan.

this is america, the land of camber correctors!


http://www.driftaholic.com/viplife.jpg

So you want to be american yet you purchased a japanese car that was made from japan, and not in an american factory with american unions. :? I think that what ever you do to your car is your business and what the opr8r does is his. Remember also,he is doing all of his own work with help from van. I think that is admirable enough for an american hard worker. 8) Now viplife get in your japanese car and join me at an american bar for a mexican corona! :D

Utterly Disgusting.

good to see Van can at least crawl to a PC and post... *chuckle* hope you're feeling 100% again man, we missed you at Exposed..

back on topic, so for the gurus, we've figured out how the camber is adjusted, but what about the dreaded "toe" that is being bandied about? do additional pieces need to be made to help compensate for this?

neg. camber is huge in japan... Van is all about JDM.... Much PROPS.

Ok, ok, opinions are like .....................yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever your opinion, I think it looks cool. Its not for everyone, otherwise everyone would be doing it. Just like Darrel's lambo doors, some like it, some don't.

In order to fit wider wheels, and not having to do major body work, camber IS the only way to go.

As Bill stated, we followed M@ home from SoCal. It looked like he had more than enuff tire contact on the road.

If you don't like it, that's cool if you state YOUR opinion, but don't hate on M@ for modding HIS way. Come hate on me cuz I get it everyday at work, and I just DON'T CARE what you have to say!

Now viplife get in your japanese car and join me at an american bar for a mexican corona! :D

And let's go eat some lumpia!!

May not be some people's cup of tea but that definitely is mine.

Camber = JDM Vip blingage!!!

Props M@

actually you are wrong.

for racing purposes that involve turns, when you enter a corner, the outside tire takes like 90% of the load, and the outside tire will lean out.

if you want the tire to be FLAT when cornering, it needs to be at negative camber when static.

now, you can go overboard naturally. and many people do it not because they race but because they want to look like they do. (not realizing that those of us that DO race see camber gone too far and just laugh at them)

if you are an agressive driver on the road, and take corners quick, -1.5 degrees of camber up front and maybe -1 in the rear can actually make your tire wear more even.

just make sure the toe is set at zero or close to it.


if you regularly autocross or do track days, you might wan't as much as -3 degrees of negative camber.

more than that would be ridiculous and of no performance benefit on most cars.

also keep in mind, as you add negative camber, straightline grip will get worse (both braking and accelerating). Drag racers will do best with 0 camber up front.




o.k. this might be a stupid question but i can't figure out why you want to put negative camber on your ride. is there a good reason for it? most people want to correct the camber not create camber. or am i missing something about this, this is the reason i am asking.

My question exactly...negative camber is NOT COOOL!

First of all, it gives you less traction, cuz only about half of the tire is on the road.

SECOND, since only half of the tire is on the road, only HALF the tire wears out.

i used to have a 62 bug that was slammed to the ground and if u know anything about swing axle bugs, as soon as u slam them u got more negative camber than u can shake a stick at. and still i ask WHY U WANT TO DO THIS? :?

Utterly Disgusting.

Whats disgusting?

Its plain to see that a few memebers have not seen the bB in its native home land. The bBs in japan has this trade marked effect on their suspension and if I am not mistaken a lot of memebers have the bB logo on the front of their rides. Now the opr8r has the same emblum but has taken his modding to the next level of JDM style. I thought we wern't a bunch of haters :( wheres the love? :?

Props Opr8r 8)

Utterly Disgusting.

Whats disgusting?

Its plain to see that a few memebers have not seen the bB in its native home land. The bBs in japan has this trade marked effect on their suspension and if I am not mistaken a lot of memebers have the bB logo on the front of their rides. Now the opr8r has the same emblum but has taken his modding to the next level of JDM style. I thought we wern't a bunch of haters :( wheres the love? :?

Props Opr8r 8)


and Japan is about the last country to use as an example of good taste =)

Utterly Disgusting.

Whats disgusting?

Its plain to see that a few memebers have not seen the bB in its native home land. The bBs in japan has this trade marked effect on their suspension and if I am not mistaken a lot of memebers have the bB logo on the front of their rides. Now the opr8r has the same emblum but has taken his modding to the next level of JDM style. I thought we wern't a bunch of haters :( wheres the love? :?

Props Opr8r 8)


and Japan is about the last country to use as an example of good taste =)

But they did have good taste when they made our cars. :D

:( wheres the love? :?

Props Opr8r 8)

please no more justin timberlake :cry:

and Japan is about the last country to use as an example of good taste =)

I totally respect your opinion, however... the Japanese VIP Wagon clubs and car culture is the first place I look for inspiration. Afterall, it was through seeing what they've been doing that got me interested in the first place! 8) To each his own.


Peace,
m@

dont be hating...
i think it looks pretty cool, totally JDM look, its all about appearance!!
JDM all the way!!

8)

I still give madd props to the opr8r and scionvan. 8)

I still give madd props to the opr8r and scionvan. 8)

so do i and to all the people that wanna jhate can lick some big donkey balls

Nice idea. For looks only! I want to know about the grille cover..... I like it , who makes them and where can I get one? X BOXX

the grill cover was made with his bare hands at scion central aka Precision muffler and Brake!! Special order piece! but we can ship! :D

Props to M@ and Van for the first to dare to Camber an xB here in US. Man, your box looks like it's from Japan which is so different from the cars you see in that movie 2Fast 2Furious which suppose to capture the My-Ahh-Muh Import Car Culture.

so much hate :twisted: flying around... and dammit no one is answering MY question!! how is toe adjusted? :wink: :lol:

either way, those of you who don't like, fine... but remember a lot of us bought this car because it is a japanese import, and we like the design/styling that they have... so we look to them for inspiration like opr8r has... socal guys, go check out SuperAutoBacs and look at the bB bibles, you'll understand where all of this comes from then. If you don't like, eh well not all of us can see/like the origin light

and Japan is about the last country to use as an example of good taste =)

with a comment like that...

...you know what they say folks..."...there's always ONE= :? ..."

did someone say lumpia??

how about balut?

did someone say lumpia??

how about balut?

Now I'm craving for Lumpia but balut????? no thanks... But I heard that Awesome DJs are coming for Maryland like Oxon Hills.


:

and Japan is about the last country to use as an example of good taste =)

I hope you're not talking about cars since our Scions were designed in Japan and you bought one.

i'm not a big fan of the extreme cabmer look, in my book i think the wheels belong *under* the car, not out the sides, but thats' why my car looks the way it does.

but serriously m@ get's MAD props for doing his box up with the TRUE JDM style!

once the front is cambered it'll look so JDM it's just sickness VIP wagon styles for sure, and with all the other JDM mods he's got going, he's definatly one that's innovating, and i'm sure there will be loads of people follwing your lead man - good work, sorry i missed ya at exposed, that would have been wicked to see in person!

when will you guys start mass producing this kit im really interested in this.

M@---
So, when are you moving the shifter to the steering column? On xB...now that would be bad-___!

Big congrats on the camber, your mods must be keeping you and Van up really late! Props.....

Utterly Disgusting.

Whats disgusting?

Its plain to see that a few memebers have not seen the bB in its native home land. The bBs in japan has this trade marked effect on their suspension and if I am not mistaken a lot of memebers have the bB logo on the front of their rides. Now the opr8r has the same emblum but has taken his modding to the next level of JDM style. I thought we wern't a bunch of haters :( wheres the love? :?

Props Opr8r 8)


I think it's 'Utterly Disgusting' when your car looks like this /----\ from the rear....

Just not very attractive if you ask me... I don't care what the benefits are... Ughhhh...

everyone stop hatin and start appreciating! if you dont like dont do it , if you do then its all good for u. I still think its the one look if you want JDM stylin and if you want the USDM stylin keep it straight.

Hey M@, I read in previous posts that you were running 17x7's +25. What size tires were you running and how much was it lowered? Also any rubbing problems? The new setup looks hot! I was in Tokyo a few months ago and saw a few bB's like that. Real sweet. Thanks!

Hey M@, I read in previous posts that you were running 17x7's +25. What size tires were you running and how much was it lowered? Also any rubbing problems? The new setup looks hot! I was in Tokyo a few months ago and saw a few bB's like that. Real sweet. Thanks!


Thanks man. The tires I was running with the 5Zigen Inperios were 205/40/17. With the 17x7 +25mm setup, there is no rubbing issues period. And that's also being lowered appx 55mm (or 2.1").

Peace,
m@

I think most folks on here have been pretty civil.. I wouldn't even consider the negative comments as "hatin'" cuz I've seen worse! At least Scion folks are cool enough, and open-minded enough to sort of let go of things they don't agree with... unlike other car enthusiasts who are stubborn to the end, even if they're wrong from the start!

Anyway, for me personally, it's not a matter of trying to be USDM or JDM... I honestly don't care what country a particular "style" or look comes from, I just go with whatever I think looks good, and works well. In this case, it just so happens that the Japanese have done the most with these cars, but that's because that's where these cars come from! Of course if I were building up another old skool Mopar or something, I wouldn't do it like the Japanese, so it's the same way, in reverse, with the Scions. So the wide, flushed wheels, lowered stance look may be synonymous with JDM, but even if it came from Yogoslavia, I'd still think it looks good, and I'd still be doing things the "YDM" way!

Oh yah, you can adjust toe on a Scion using shims also. What I was ultimately intending on doing is determining how much-if any-toe correction is needed on a lowered (and perhaps cambered) Scion, and then machining the plates to add both camber, and bring toe out to 0 at the same time. If toe on a lowered (but non-cambered) Scion is bad, maybe I can make some toe-correction plates that will just correct the toe, without adding negative camber also. So there's still a little bit of R&D left to do, but since we're all sort of starting from scratch with these cars, a little patience is all that's needed!

Oh yah, speaking of spacers and shim, I believe that the ultimte solution to those of you who want to push your rear wheels out, will be to run spacer shims (with no camber noe toe adjustment built into them). With spacer shims you won't have to worry about balance issues, or swapping out to longer wheel studs, or finding hubcentricity. And that way you guys can run your same size/fitment front and rear wheels, and have that rear wheel just as flush to the rear fenderwell as the front is to its fenderwell. I'll keep you guys posted on this... gonna see whether it'll be better to have the pieces waterjet- or laser-cut... :)

Oh yah, speaking of spacers and shim, I believe that the ultimte solution to those of you who want to push your rear wheels out, will be to run spacer shims (with no camber noe toe adjustment built into them). With spacer shims you won't have to worry about balance issues, or swapping out to longer wheel studs, or finding hubcentricity. And that way you guys can run your same size/fitment front and rear wheels, and have that rear wheel just as flush to the rear fenderwell as the front is to its fenderwell. I'll keep you guys posted on this... gonna see whether it'll be better to have the pieces waterjet- or laser-cut... :)

Spacer fan here and I'll be waiting for your Spacer Shims. Just call me when it's ready and I'm so there on your door steps with my Box.

hells ya, if i can get my Mod7's flushed out perfect wiht those spacer shims, i'll be all over you for a custom set Van!

keep us posted!

van,

camber...blah-blah...toe...blah-blah...

...start working on us getting lower, please???

:wink:

Oh yah, speaking of spacers and shim, I believe that the ultimte solution to those of you who want to push your rear wheels out, will be to run spacer shims (with no camber noe toe adjustment built into them). With spacer shims you won't have to worry about balance issues, or swapping out to longer wheel studs, or finding hubcentricity. And that way you guys can run your same size/fitment front and rear wheels, and have that rear wheel just as flush to the rear fenderwell as the front is to its fenderwell. I'll keep you guys posted on this... gonna see whether it'll be better to have the pieces waterjet- or laser-cut... :)

im interested in spacer shims, i would love my back wheels to poke out as far as my fronts do. wicked

van,

camber...blah-blah...toe...blah-blah...

...start working on us getting lower, please???


Patience grass-hoppa.... patience... after the talk me and Opr8r had with Van last night, just be patient and see... one choice tid-bit, his roommate's xB was so low it f'ed up the rear support he had created.... :lol: damn...

I think that is awsome.... and it's cool that he's doing something different from everyone else in the states

the more i see the cambered look the more i like it. i have always like the way the bmw's looked with it. does this void warranty (cambered the way M@ has it)?

as i remember, they have to prove that leads the problem otherwise they cant void your warranty

Yeah.. I believe they have to prove that the reason for your problem is directly related to your modification(s).

Peace,
m@

Good, it looks like the haters left. There must be a rerun of The Fast and the Furious on. :P

Van, thanks for doing all this. I've been asking for rear toe correction for months now! If you need a test vehicle, let me know. I've got coilovers, so I can set it to whatever height you need.

Hopefully your coilover kit will have some form of adjusting front camber without removing the entire shock. The hole on the shock tower is too small for a good camber plate....like I've discovered with the Cuscos. :x

Keep up the good work!

iiiiiiiiiii want camber, and some coiloverssssssssss everybody sing!!!
come on van hook us up

Oh yah, speaking of spacers and shim, I believe that the ultimte solution to those of you who want to push your rear wheels out, will be to run spacer shims (with no camber noe toe adjustment built into them). With spacer shims you won't have to worry about balance issues, or swapping out to longer wheel studs, or finding hubcentricity. And that way you guys can run your same size/fitment front and rear wheels, and have that rear wheel just as flush to the rear fenderwell as the front is to its fenderwell. I'll keep you guys posted on this... gonna see whether it'll be better to have the pieces waterjet- or laser-cut... :)

I got the ATM card ready, just let me know where & when! No diggity...

So based on the thread, I'm waiting for the RedBox Lumpia delivery service to start. :P You can't bring lumpia up and not have any for the crew! :D Damn, I'm really hungry now...

I guess I don't get it......as far as for looks........it looks like your wheel is ready to fall off.

Sean

I have always thought that camber was a mistake but thanks to M@ and Van I am starting to appreciate it more. I see that all BMW's have rear camber (from what I can tell) even the ones riding on not so wide wheels. I'm even starting to think that somewhere down the line with my new wheels I might be more open to camber that had a more even tire wear like was mentioned here.

Thanks Van and Matt!

Van, do you think camber would be ok on wider stock wheels? :wink:

what do u meant by wider stock wheels?

how much for the adapters for the camber look. do you think it will look ok with wheels that have no lip. any pics would be helpful. thanks

Spacer shims for the rear!?! I'M IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Van, if you need a test vehicle, I drive at least 160 miles a day. Good thing I'm getting 30 mpg floating along at 80 mph w/ gas prices over $2/gal now!

do you think it will look ok with wheels that have no lip. any pics would be helpful. thanks

In my opinion, it's more about the wheel width/offset than the lip. For example, when I was temporarily running my 5Zigen Inperios in the rear (17x7 +25mm offset) it didn't look right because the top of the wheels were "sunken" into the fender. If you've seen any of the japanese VIP cars or wagons with -camber, you'll notice that 95% of the time, the top of the wheel is flush with the fender. One other thing to note is that in some cases, -camber will actually allow you to fit a wider wheel!

With the test fitting that Van and I have done, we've learned that wheels between 8" and 9" wide start getting you in the "ballpark" as far as getting your rear wheels out closer to the fender, not forgetting that some of this also depends on offset. (BTW... Anything below 20mm is pretty rad)

Regarding the lipless wheels: Of course it's all a matter of taste, but I've seen some cars/wagons with -camber and lipless wheels that looked pretty cool!

Peace,
m@

Ooops. Wider stock sized 15 wheels in seven inch size rather than the stock 6.5 inch (?) size.
Did that make sense? :?

Al.Truistic
aB

what do u meant by wider stock wheels?

how much can you adjust the camber with Van's plates? are they adjustable?

how much can you adjust the camber with Van's plates? are they adjustable?

The rear is a "fixed" degree of camber. Now sure about the fronts yet. Van?


Peace,
m@

are u going to sell the camber plates if so can u change the dergree?

are u going to sell the camber plates if so can u change the dergree?

Maybe if Van gets enough interest, he'd consider it. I don't want to speak for him though. I'm not sure about adjustability for the front, but the rears are non-adjustable. They would need to be machined to your desired degree.

By Japanese VIP standards -4 degrees might be a bit on the conservative side, but I'm pretty happy with it so far. (BTW... We checked the tire wear over the weekend and it's looking good!) If you want to see some crazy camber, check out the bB's done up by Garson (With the Black Mafia decals on the sides) Now *THAT* is crazy! 8)


Peace,
m@

IMO, the negative camber is awesome. Looks pretty badass. VIP style is super super clean. I might consider thinking about getting a set.

Ride looks great M@.

The camber plates are non-adjustable, so you usually get one specifically for whatever degree of camber you want. It seems the most commonly-available degrees most people get for bBs and the like are 3deg and 5deg, so that's why I decided to try the happy medium in between the two, at 4deg. They can be used with any wheel setup, and as far as clearance is concerned, they can only help (although I have yet to consider what would happen if you had really high offset, Honda-ish wheels, as cambering those might actually allow them to touch the shock body...I'll have to look into that later, although there's really no need to camber if you've got high offset wheels anyway!).

Alfred: Camber really is only a mistake when it's accompanied by a bad toe condition. As mentioned in a previous post, as long as your toe is basically close to 0, camber alone does not kill your tires any quicker than having no camber. It would also be kinda cool to have on those Nezarts..! :)

Na'im: Toufic mentioned it... but basically, there will be things to look out for when you're really low! I moved those prototype subframe brace and rear chassis brace parts over to my friend's car (the one that's down about ~ 4") and the braces are now goners. The front piece is bashed to death, and the rear piece has lost its coating, all from making contact with speedbumps and the like. Granted, no one else will probably ever want to go THAT low on a daily driver, but it's something to remember before you crank those coilovers way down! Speaking of which, coilover design is moving fwd again thankfully...

Ken: can you do us all a favor actually, and measure how much toe you have on the rear suspension at maybe... 2" down, 2.5" down, and 3" down? Using those numbers coupled with the stock specs, we can draw a graph to determine the toe change curve as the suspension compresses.

As for the plates again, they will definitely be made. I've got the design in autocad and will see about costs for production and such soon. I've just been really slow with trying to wrap things up at Piercey Scion, while still looking for shop space for One Ton Garage, and just juggling everything else in between. Soon though...!!

NEGATIVE CAMBER IS ONLY FOR REAR WHEEL DRIVE DRIFTERS!!!!!!!!! u are honestly not helping yourself by putting negative camber on a front wheel drive.

"...bad toe condition..." ha ha ha...pretty funny, Van!

Anyways, I'm starting to see the whole camber thing in a new light so, major props to you and M@! Will you be designing not so extreme camber plates for that subtle VIP look? Maybe then I will be in the mood for bigger spacers as well :wink: !

Oh and yeah, I think a bit of camber would look pretty cool on my Nezarts, too!

Al.Truistic
aB

...

Alfred: Camber really is only a mistake when it's accompanied by a bad toe condition. As mentioned in a previous post, as long as your toe is basically close to 0, camber alone does not kill your tires any quicker than having no camber. It would also be kinda cool to have on those Nezarts..! :)

...

Na'im: Toufic mentioned it... but basically, there will be things to look out for when you're really low! I moved those prototype subframe brace and rear chassis brace parts over to my friend's car (the one that's down about ~ 4") and the braces are now goners. The front piece is bashed to death, and the rear piece has lost its coating, all from making contact with speedbumps and the like. Granted, no one else will probably ever want to go THAT low on a daily driver, but it's something to remember before you crank those coilovers way down! Speaking of which, coilover design is moving fwd again thankfully...



van: thanks for the heads up and update. i dont really think i would drive that low on a daily basis, but would like the ability to go there if possible. just really looking for something along the lines of cusco's drop maybe...3+ inches or so. but i'd like to wait on your system. did you mean matt? because i asked him to "harrass" you about the coilovers :wink:

cant wait till one ton is open for business.

n-e up dates????

If it helps motivate you, put us down for a couple sets at 4 degrees! Just let me know when you have them ready... we'll be waiting for new wheels on Boxzila until they're ready!

-Phil and Vicki

M@,

how much clearance did you have in the back with those 17x9 b/f camber. i just found the wheels i want and they are avail. in 17x8.5 or 18x9.5 and i was wondering if i could fit the 18x9.5 but if not i would settle for the 17x8.5
with the camber and fenders rolled in rear will the 18x9.5 fit? how much clearance would i have b/w wheels and anything that would rub? how much would i be able to drop it? and what offset would you go with?

VAN,

i would like to get those camber kits for both front and rear. pm or e-mail me with the price for both.

i saw M@'s car for the first time with the sun out.... that camber is Sick!! talk about some deep dish wheels :shock:

you know... its the one thing i am having a hard time figuring out...

whether to go us style with some huge ___ boat anchors on every corner.. ie 19s and some 18s or if i should do a cool ___ jdm or even euro look with some 16s or 17s in a 2 or 3 pc rim with a wide ___ lip and maybe even stagger the width up front to back. but i know if i go with 16s or 17s i am going ot have to go LOW to make it look right.

hmmm!! i need to see some picks for 16s and 17s that are wide on the xb :twisted:


but regardless, i'm feeling the camber!!!

M@,

how much clearance did you have in the back with those 17x9 b/f camber. i just found the wheels i want and they are avail. in 17x8.5 or 18x9.5 and i was wondering if i could fit the 18x9.5 but if not i would settle for the 17x8.5
with the camber and fenders rolled in rear will the 18x9.5 fit? how much clearance would i have b/w wheels and anything that would rub? how much would i be able to drop it? and what offset would you go with?

VAN,

i would like to get those camber kits for both front and rear. pm or e-mail me with the price for both.

What are the offset specs?

I didn't have much clearance at all. If I remember correctly, you could barely wedge a finger in and if you did, it would be at an angle. The -4 degrees of camber has helped, but the biggest help in reducing rub so far has been the rear fender rolling that Van did. I can't begin to tell you how much that has improved the ride and reduced the rubbing.

I would guess that (without any work) you would definitely have rubbing issues with an 18x9.5 wheel. I know things can be done to make it fit though. If you look at the specs for the bB on Fabulous' website, http://www.fabulous.co.jp/domestic_car/toyota/bb.html you'll notice that it has a wheel fitment of:

Front: 18x8.5 +18mm offset
Rear: 18x9.5 +18mm offset

Tires in front and rear are 225/35/18

It's almost guarenteed that the rear (and front) fenders are rolled, not to mention the negative camber and stretched tires are also a factor as well. I can't remember what the suspension specs are, but I know it's a coilover setup that's at least -1.5" down from stock height. Hope this helps!

Peace,
m@

M@,

i can get these wheels in a number of offsets ranging from 16-40mm. i was thinking about going 18x9.5 with 16mm offset in back and 18x8.5 with 25mm offset in front.
do you think the front will stick out from under the fender well? do you think the 18x9.5 with 16mm offset in back will work out fine, with maybe a need for a spacer and fender rolling?

bryan

M@,

i can get these wheels in a number of offsets ranging from 16-40mm. i was thinking about going 18x9.5 with 16mm offset in back and 18x8.5 with 25mm offset in front.
do you think the front will stick out from under the fender well? do you think the 18x9.5 with 16mm offset in back will work out fine, with maybe a need for a spacer and fender rolling?

bryan

with 18x8.5 +25 for front...it will sticks out a little bit...
as for the rear, if u get 18x9.5 +16 u dont need spacer...
if u really like the JDM look, think about some camber like matt...

M@,

i can get these wheels in a number of offsets ranging from 16-40mm. i was thinking about going 18x9.5 with 16mm offset in back and 18x8.5 with 25mm offset in front.
do you think the front will stick out from under the fender well? do you think the 18x9.5 with 16mm offset in back will work out fine, with maybe a need for a spacer and fender rolling?

bryan

Bryan,

Regarding the front:

If I had to guess, I would say that 18x8.5 +25mm offset in the front will be really close. I personally haven't seen front wheels with these exact specs on an xB, so I can't give you a solid answer.

Regarding the rear:

18x9.5 +16mm offset shouldn't require a spacer at all. If you plan on the "cam" look in the rear, the camber shim will sorta act as a spacer. Definitely plan on rolling your rear fenders though. (Regardless of whether you have negative camber or not... and unless you use a heat gun, be prepared for the paint inside the fender to chip/crack. Par for the course!)

I highly recommend you check out the pics of the fabulous bB (link is in my post above) The wheel specs seem pretty close to what you seem to be going for.

Peace,
m@

M@,

yeah i had seen that b/f and that was what i was basing my size option on. but i did not know what all they had done in order to make them fit. would like to know how much i can drop it with the 18" and camber???? also M@, VAN, on the "Fab Kit" is the front wheels cambered? if so how much would you guess?

Perhaps this is something that n_bb could clue us in on, considering he's a bB owner/enthusist in Japan. The front has negative camber... to what degree, I'm not sure. I'm guessing something under -5 degrees. Another thing I forgot to mention is that sometimes for pics, they'll get the car as low as possible. And since the Fabulous bB has a height adjustable (Fabulous) coilover setup, that could be the case here. Don't hold me to it though.

Van? What do you think?


Peace,
m@

when the time comes, this is what i want my xb to look like in regards to camber(but on 16s or 17s) :twisted:

http://www.yv-1.com/jb/131.jpg

Cambering can make a world of difference in gaining you extra wheel/tire clearance. One thing to remember also, is that to camber the rear of the Scion, you are sorta pushing it out a few mm, but since you're cambering it, you gain more clearance than you're losing. But when you camber the fronts (using a strut top camber plate), the wheel/tire will only move in, not out, and then in. Sooo... if your front wheels are flush, cambering them a few deg will make them no longer flush (but barely, so it's almost neglible unless you're really critical). But if your fronts stick out a tad, then cambering them will bring the whole setup flush with the fender. This will be the case with M@'s car, where the front wheels look like they stick out a tad. With some rolling of the fronts, and a slight camber to match the rears, the fronts will be super flush, and we'll be able to lower the car even more to complete the whole look.

have you guys rolled your fenders yet? what technique did you use?

my last car we had it low then inserted a broom handle between the tire and fender, or you can use a bat, and then pushed the car forward slowly while someone held the handle at the preferred flare/angle. this made a nice roll and if you do it slowly enough you don tget any cracks in the clear or the paint at all...

have you guys rolled your fenders yet? what technique did you use?

my last car we had it low then inserted a broom handle between the tire and fender, or you can use a bat, and then pushed the car forward slowly while someone held the handle at the preferred flare/angle. this made a nice roll and if you do it slowly enough you don tget any cracks in the clear or the paint at all...

On mine, Van used a rolling tool that mounts to the hub. It's pretty rad. The rear fenders are rolled. It is absolutely essential with this wheel fitment at the height that I'm at.

Peace,
m@

nice... that sounds all pro :) i cant wait for coilovers and dish!! mmmmmm :twisted:

http://www.bmwdiy.info/fender-rolling/

fender rolling tool
http://www.bmwdiy.info/fender-rolling/fender-rolling-02.jpg

That tool is soo cool, I think matt had to have his done like 3 times just to get it perfect. :shock:

Utterly Disgusting.

Whats disgusting?

Props Opr8r 8)


and Japan is about the last country to use as an example of good taste =)


HAHHAHAHHA!!!!!! What do you think the entire Drift/ Import Scene is about? Where does it all come from? Guess what, JAPAN!!!!

Opr8r- Keep workin it bro, Lovin that style. I hate all of this "Hey man i just got a scion and i want 22's on it!!!!" HAHAHHAHA

heheh 22s on a scion, heheheheh :lol: :shock:

i love my scion but damn!! i cannot imagine driving it with heavy ___ dubs on each corner. i think i would shoot myself!