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09-27-2011, 05:13 PM
#3
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 2,105
you might want to add a second battery. should help with the dimming when you're banging for a while. also, if the oem headunit works for you, then more power to you, but i've yet to see any install not sound better with a higher quality headunit.
besides that, very nice install and great equipment. congrats!
besides that, very nice install and great equipment. congrats!
09-28-2011, 08:37 AM
#5
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 390
Nice install for a novice. You've kept the wiring clean and mostly out of the way. As for constructive comments (much nicer than saying criticism), only a few.
Head Unit. I'm with everyone else - aftermarket! If you don't need a nav system or video, finding a great HU or under $300 is easy. Choosing one is not. You'll get better control and usually more functions. My stock 2010 HU had no fast forward/back or pause for the CD or USB, so it was a major pain. Current Sony HU has those. No steering wheel control, but I got used to it.
Rear Fill. Put it in the rear cubbies. Mids and highs are all you need. Separates are nice, but a good matching coax will fit the bill too. Stock back door location sucks: too low in the door to be heard well and muffled by the seats and floor. And why add rear fill? Gives it a more natural "in the room" sound (cuz when you listen to your stereo at home, you're hearing the speakers and the reflected sound off the side/rear walls, makes it sound "bigger"). Don't need to be loud, just enough to barely notice.
100 point crossovers. I suspect you meant 100 point equalizers. 100 point crossovers will fill your car with amps (about 50 or so!). Lots of eq points are a techies dream and a sound guys nightmare. Even automatic units do only a so-so job. We (sound techs) still have to fine tune by ear to make the automatic systems sound good. The whole idea with a eq is to smooth out the frequency curve of your speakers. A well set 4-10 band graphic does the job well, a 3 band parametric does better. Total phase control is nice, but ignored when driving. It's better to pick out great sounding speakers first, then decide if you need other help.
CPU fans. Get the biggest that will fit that has a low RPM. They're less noisy. You'll only need a pair: you don't need a hurricane to cool the amps, just a breeze. Go to an electronics supply store that repair techs go to (not Radio Shack or Best Buy). Brings lots of money: you'll see lots of cool stuff that you never knew existed and never knew you lusted after.
Wiring. I said that it generally looked good. How to make it better is in the details. Split loom is easy but common. Better looking are braided wire sleeves. A little more expensive, but professional like in space shuttle professional looking. One source is CableOrganizer.com. Finish the ends off with heat shrink tubing. Use lots of cable anchors; the cables will now follow any curved paths better. Use black cable ties and lots of them and trim the excess flush to the knuckle with a razor blade (cut ends with wire cutters leaves sharp edges that cause !@$%&@!!!). Rule of thumb: no hanging/loose/off-looking wire paths (like your second picture with the power blocks and relay). Keep things snug. When in doubt, use heavier wire for power control lines, they look better (16 ga or thicker). Think about how the look flows.
The above comments comes from far too much time working in home, car and pro audio. And from many hours in unnatural positions install said equipment.
Last word of advice: keep a few special items in your cargo cubbies. 3D battery LED Maglite (Costco!), garden gloves for changing tires, and most importantly, a roll of toilet paper (you'll never know when or where you gotta go).
Keep up the good work and send more pics!
Head Unit. I'm with everyone else - aftermarket! If you don't need a nav system or video, finding a great HU or under $300 is easy. Choosing one is not. You'll get better control and usually more functions. My stock 2010 HU had no fast forward/back or pause for the CD or USB, so it was a major pain. Current Sony HU has those. No steering wheel control, but I got used to it.
Rear Fill. Put it in the rear cubbies. Mids and highs are all you need. Separates are nice, but a good matching coax will fit the bill too. Stock back door location sucks: too low in the door to be heard well and muffled by the seats and floor. And why add rear fill? Gives it a more natural "in the room" sound (cuz when you listen to your stereo at home, you're hearing the speakers and the reflected sound off the side/rear walls, makes it sound "bigger"). Don't need to be loud, just enough to barely notice.
100 point crossovers. I suspect you meant 100 point equalizers. 100 point crossovers will fill your car with amps (about 50 or so!). Lots of eq points are a techies dream and a sound guys nightmare. Even automatic units do only a so-so job. We (sound techs) still have to fine tune by ear to make the automatic systems sound good. The whole idea with a eq is to smooth out the frequency curve of your speakers. A well set 4-10 band graphic does the job well, a 3 band parametric does better. Total phase control is nice, but ignored when driving. It's better to pick out great sounding speakers first, then decide if you need other help.
CPU fans. Get the biggest that will fit that has a low RPM. They're less noisy. You'll only need a pair: you don't need a hurricane to cool the amps, just a breeze. Go to an electronics supply store that repair techs go to (not Radio Shack or Best Buy). Brings lots of money: you'll see lots of cool stuff that you never knew existed and never knew you lusted after.
Wiring. I said that it generally looked good. How to make it better is in the details. Split loom is easy but common. Better looking are braided wire sleeves. A little more expensive, but professional like in space shuttle professional looking. One source is CableOrganizer.com. Finish the ends off with heat shrink tubing. Use lots of cable anchors; the cables will now follow any curved paths better. Use black cable ties and lots of them and trim the excess flush to the knuckle with a razor blade (cut ends with wire cutters leaves sharp edges that cause !@$%&@!!!). Rule of thumb: no hanging/loose/off-looking wire paths (like your second picture with the power blocks and relay). Keep things snug. When in doubt, use heavier wire for power control lines, they look better (16 ga or thicker). Think about how the look flows.
The above comments comes from far too much time working in home, car and pro audio. And from many hours in unnatural positions install said equipment.
Last word of advice: keep a few special items in your cargo cubbies. 3D battery LED Maglite (Costco!), garden gloves for changing tires, and most importantly, a roll of toilet paper (you'll never know when or where you gotta go).
Keep up the good work and send more pics!
09-28-2011, 02:22 PM
#6
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 11
Out of curiosity, which stock HU are you using? The Alpine?
And I do agree that SSP does a better job at imaging than what most people can do on their own. Then again, most folks who go with aftermarket systems are more concerned about volume and bass than the soundstage. I'm out of the game at the moment, but I was actually the state rep for Zapco a couple years back, and have extensive experience with the DC amps, the JBL MS-8, Alpine H701, RF 360.2...and for a stock system the xB does a helluva good job with the eq and t/a that's built in.
And I do agree that SSP does a better job at imaging than what most people can do on their own. Then again, most folks who go with aftermarket systems are more concerned about volume and bass than the soundstage. I'm out of the game at the moment, but I was actually the state rep for Zapco a couple years back, and have extensive experience with the DC amps, the JBL MS-8, Alpine H701, RF 360.2...and for a stock system the xB does a helluva good job with the eq and t/a that's built in.
09-28-2011, 08:23 PM
#7
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 11
Huh, I have a 2011 xB myself, and the Pio unit I have is definitely the base...oh, just reread that you're using the JL remote gain attenuation **** for bass control.
How did you tap into the signal going to your amps? My guess now is that you're using the single preout set from the HU going to all of them? I wasn't sure the single set of preouts would have the DSP applied to it or not, but it makes sense since the SSP would need to be applied for the bass as well, and I believe they are full range.
I'm getting more and more intrigued...I had thought about doing a system, but without understanding what the preout was doing for sure, it would have been a guess.
How did you tap into the signal going to your amps? My guess now is that you're using the single preout set from the HU going to all of them? I wasn't sure the single set of preouts would have the DSP applied to it or not, but it makes sense since the SSP would need to be applied for the bass as well, and I believe they are full range.
I'm getting more and more intrigued...I had thought about doing a system, but without understanding what the preout was doing for sure, it would have been a guess.
09-28-2011, 08:27 PM
#9
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 11
Or do you have this unit:
http://www.scion.com/#/xB-features/s...atures/pioneer
Or this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2011-...item3a6a2913d1
http://www.scion.com/#/xB-features/s...atures/pioneer
Or this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2011-...item3a6a2913d1
09-28-2011, 11:10 PM
#12
Only constructive criticism I can give would be already what was said. You really don't need that large of an alternator. I've been running a Sundown SAZ-3000D at .75ohm for the past year. As far as electrical goes, I've been running the OEM battery, Kinetik HC1800, and a 180amp alternator from Maniac Electric Motors. My voltage doesn't drop all that bad. I compete in dB Drag and pull low 145's on a regular basis. I bassrace the 130-139.9 class and do very well.
You could do what I plan on doing: trimming the rear subwoofer enclosure. I know it will look much better and make it clean!
I also agree with rear fill. No one runs rear fill in SQ builds. If I were you, I'd forget about the glassed kicks. Glass your a-pillars with some 3" midrangs and a decent tweet.
You could do what I plan on doing: trimming the rear subwoofer enclosure. I know it will look much better and make it clean!
I also agree with rear fill. No one runs rear fill in SQ builds. If I were you, I'd forget about the glassed kicks. Glass your a-pillars with some 3" midrangs and a decent tweet.
09-29-2011, 12:03 AM
#13
I've never actually clamped my amplifier, but I would venture that with impedance rise and voltge drop I'm a bit lower than 3000watts. I dip into the low 12's at full tilt, but it's not that bad. I dim very little at night, but I have HID's that require a lot less juice than halogens. For that little amount, may as well scoop up the higher output alternator. I know I would. I paid about that much for my 180amp about 3 years ago. Wish DC would have had an option then!
As far as substage, I'm running a single Digital Designs 9515G.
As far as substage, I'm running a single Digital Designs 9515G.
09-30-2011, 06:03 AM
#14
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 390
Most of the systems I've heard with rear fills have over done the rear levels. Must be a throwback of all those Detroit cars with their 6x9s! A proper rear fill is just barely noticed or not noticed at all until they are turned off. Any level higher is overkill! But it IS a very subjective evaluation and each listener should do what sounds good for them. I like them because it makes my car sound close to my listening room at home in terms of ambiance.
I do have a quibble with using "crossover" incorrectly. A crossover divides the sound spectrum into different pathways, whether to amps or speakers. 2 way xovers separate lows to mids and mids to highs . 3 way have a low, mid, and high pathway. Subs are considered subset of the lows. What you're thinking of is equalization points/bands. Anything more than 30 bands on a manual tuning eq is difficult to adjust (as each band changes the curve of the two adjacent bands). Electronic systems, like the Alpine, Fosgate, etc, can have any number of eq points to adjust and do it very well (they let the internal computer figure it out). They are a great way to tweak a system, but they still need a little help from us to get to the sound we like.
I do have a quibble with using "crossover" incorrectly. A crossover divides the sound spectrum into different pathways, whether to amps or speakers. 2 way xovers separate lows to mids and mids to highs . 3 way have a low, mid, and high pathway. Subs are considered subset of the lows. What you're thinking of is equalization points/bands. Anything more than 30 bands on a manual tuning eq is difficult to adjust (as each band changes the curve of the two adjacent bands). Electronic systems, like the Alpine, Fosgate, etc, can have any number of eq points to adjust and do it very well (they let the internal computer figure it out). They are a great way to tweak a system, but they still need a little help from us to get to the sound we like.
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