first question which is the remote wire. im using a blue one(not the front speaker wire) and the amp wont turn off.

how come the tC's charging system seems underpowered????

i just put in ONE amp to power ONE 10" bazooka and when it thumps the lights get dim(nightime driving). full charge reading 14.2V and when the bass hits its around 12V. and this is with the lower bass setting and the gains all the way down. btw it an old fosgate punch amp 1000Wx1 bridged. i am try a 250x1 amp tomorrow.

should i be concerned with this. i would assume it is putting an extra load on the alternator which i dont know how bad that is?

i look at the stugg Neil Tjin / Verone project tC show car has and i how is this possible. i didnt happen to see alternator as a upgrade.

any advice?

i have a kicker 1200 + a nav system pulling alot of power so i NEEDED a yellow cap. i suggest u get 1 too. no flickerin at all

i'm running a 600 and 700 watt amp. My lights did the same thing. My battery took a dump shortly after. Last week I installed a yellow top, and the lights dont dim at all.

You need a capacitor. It provides instant electricity when your amp needs it. The battery provides long term electricity but doesn't do as well with fluctuations. You need power that does both, lasts long and can fluctuate. You need to add a Capacitor to your system. I have a 1 farad cap sitting around my house. I upgraded to a 3 farad Cap, so if you are interested, I can sell it to you for $60 shipped. I can send pics. You need 1 farad cap for every 1000 watts your amps put out.

try doing the magic 3 too. increase the wire guage for alt.-battery, battery-ground, engine block-ground

You need a capacitor. It provides instant electricity when your amp needs it. The battery provides long term electricity but doesn't do as well with fluctuations. You need power that does both, lasts long and can fluctuate. You need to add a Capacitor to your system. Stupidity.hurting.brain.

my lights dim also, i have a 1 farad cap and a yellow top and upgraded my bat - wire from the batt to the frame and added another ground from my alt bracket to the frame and i still dim all i have is a single rf power bd 500 not even 1000 watts i am trying to save up and get like a bat cap or similar 35 farad or higher capacitor

yeah i got a yellow top in there. it was my friends and was drained for a while. i trickled charged it back up but it been flickering since. im going to put the oem one back in to see if that does better and if it does then my yellow top is bad.

You need a capacitor. It provides instant electricity when your amp needs it. The battery provides long term electricity but doesn't do as well with fluctuations. You need power that does both, lasts long and can fluctuate. You need to add a Capacitor to your system. Stupidity.hurting.brain.

... pretty much haha

Pioneer 8600mp, RF p8002 amp, RF 1 Farad Cap, 2x RF P3 10", stock battery... no dimming. I dunno about you guys but I like being able to hear. Not only in general, but also being able to hear every bit of a song... not just the bass... not just the high tones. There's this thing called being excessive and unfortunately most people are :nope:

Sure my speakers/tweeters are stock, but I've had nothing but people drooling over how clear the highs/mids/lows sound in the car. Anyways, use a cap.. or two :silly:

I'm sorry...but there are things that make electricity, and things that use electricity. Hint: Caps don't make it.

Upgrade your battery, that'll fix your problems. Still having them, upgrade the big three. Still have them...well...you've got a choice....upgrade your alt, deal w/ the dimming, or turn the stereo down.

I've got a 2kw substage....my lights damn near turn off right now. I've got a yellow top and wires for the big 3 waiting though ;)

I'm sorry...but there are things that make electricity, and things that use electricity. Hint: Caps don't make it.

Upgrade your battery, that'll fix your problems. Still having them, upgrade the big three. Still have them...well...you've got a choice....upgrade your alt, deal w/ the dimming, or turn the stereo down.

I've got a 2kw substage....my lights damn near turn off right now. I've got a yellow top and wires for the big 3 waiting though ;)

I'm sorry, but no one ever said cap's make electricity. Why would you spend that much extra money on upgrading your alt/batt/wiring when adding a cap (in the correct manner) is so much cheaper, and better solution????

For those who don't know, capacitors are energy reservoirs that store necessary power your amp needs to punch those big bass notes. They store power during when it is not required, (read: most of the time) and release it when a short term transient demand exceeds what is available from the car's power system.

So, by your advice, you'd upgrade the power to generate/supply electricity *all* the time, even though you only need more power at infrequent intervals??? The analogy you are suggesting is: I want my car to go faster, I'll just add a jet engine to it. Sure, that will work, but its not economical, nor necessary.

I'm sorry...but there are things that make electricity, and things that use electricity. Hint: Caps don't make it.

Upgrade your battery, that'll fix your problems. Still having them, upgrade the big three. Still have them...well...you've got a choice....upgrade your alt, deal w/ the dimming, or turn the stereo down.

I've got a 2kw substage....my lights damn near turn off right now. I've got a yellow top and wires for the big 3 waiting though ;)

I'm sorry, but no one ever said cap's make electricity. Why would you spend that much extra money on upgrading your alt/batt/wiring when adding a cap (in the correct manner) is so much cheaper, and better solution????

For those who don't know, capacitors are energy reservoirs that store necessary power your amp needs to punch those big bass notes. They store power during when it is not required, (read: most of the time) and release it when a short term transient demand exceeds what is available from the car's power system.

So, by your advice, you'd upgrade the power to generate/supply electricity *all* the time, even though you only need more power at infrequent intervals??? The analogy you are suggesting is: I want my car to go faster, I'll just add a jet engine to it. Sure, that will work, but its not economical, nor necessary.

AMEN

I'm sorry...but there are things that make electricity, and things that use electricity. Hint: Caps don't make it.

Upgrade your battery, that'll fix your problems. Still having them, upgrade the big three. Still have them...well...you've got a choice....upgrade your alt, deal w/ the dimming, or turn the stereo down.

I've got a 2kw substage....my lights damn near turn off right now. I've got a yellow top and wires for the big 3 waiting though ;)

I'm sorry, but no one ever said cap's make electricity. Why would you spend that much extra money on upgrading your alt/batt/wiring when adding a cap (in the correct manner) is so much cheaper, and better solution????

For those who don't know, capacitors are energy reservoirs that store necessary power your amp needs to punch those big bass notes. They store power during when it is not required, (read: most of the time) and release it when a short term transient demand exceeds what is available from the car's power system.

So, by your advice, you'd upgrade the power to generate/supply electricity *all* the time, even though you only need more power at infrequent intervals??? The analogy you are suggesting is: I want my car to go faster, I'll just add a jet engine to it. Sure, that will work, but its not economical, nor necessary.

But a cap is just a band-aid to a larger problem...it's not a real solution.

Realistically, sure...go ahead and get a cap. They are a constant drain on your electrical system rather than a small burst drain...you are still taking the same power out of your alt/battery...you're just spreading it out so that it's always an extra drain. In some cases it helps. But why not upgrade the wires under your hood first? That takes care of dimming more often than not. I had the same stereo I do now in my Neon...upgraded big 3, dimming went away.

so...less than $20 in wire....or a cap which you aren't going to get that cheap.

I'm not saying go blow the money on a battery and alt if you don't have it, but they are surely better solutions to not having enough power than a cap is...and upgrading wire should ALWAYS be the first step...you may not even need the cap.

Sorry I put things in the wrong order the first time...upgrade your wire first :)

I guess it's just the kind of person I am....I'm not going to get the band-aid solution to a problem in my car....I'll just fix the problem at it's source=power supply under the hood.

So...I guess what I'm trying to say. Some people believe in caps, others don't. I'm a don't. Nothing wrong if you do, you'll just never see me suggest one, I'll always suggest an actual electrical system upgrade.

Where's the :beer: smiley....

A capacitor takes a long time to charge and a very short time to discharge. If you're rocking out to the point where your headlights are dimming, you're probably listening to some extremely bass-heavy music that stays bass heavy. Thus, the capacitor won't have time to recharge in time for the next bass hit.

i'm running a 600 and 700 watt amp. My lights did the same thing. My battery took a dump shortly after. Last week I installed a yellow top, and the lights dont dim at all.

Hey Randode, which model of yellow top did ya get?


n/m found it :)

Let me pose this question...if caps don't work, why is it that nearly everyone who competes in car stereo competitions, has one??

In the 15 shows I've been to, I've never seen *anyone* without a cap win. It could be just coincedental, but I doubt it.

Because they also have upgraded electrical systems and batteries.

I'm gonna post this reply and then not going to argue the point any more.....I definitely agree with you on the upgraded wire point (meant to say that to both you and mandos earlier), but not at all on the upgrading Alt/batt over the cap. If you think otherwise, that's your opinion, and you are entitled to it, and I respect that.

From my point of view, a battery and alternator are going to run you more than a 1F cap. I don't think anyone is going to disagree with that. And if putting in a cap fixes the problem, then to me, it isn't a bandaid fix, it's a solution. One that cost less money, and takes less time to install, and also is one less component to troubleshoot if something goes wrong.

But again, that's just my opinion.

upgrade power and ground wires to the biggest possible, to the amp, from the alternator to battery, and from the battery to ground points... if that doesn't fix it and...

you use your system moderately, but play it hard sometimes... get a cap...
you use your system excessively, or on long trips get an alternator...

I'm sorry, but no one ever said cap's make electricity. Why would you spend that much extra money on upgrading your alt/batt/wiring when adding a cap (in the correct manner) is so much cheaper, and better solution???

So, by your advice, you'd upgrade the power to generate/supply electricity *all* the time, even though you only need more power at infrequent intervals??? The analogy you are suggesting is: I want my car to go faster, I'll just add a jet engine to it. Sure, that will work, but its not economical, nor necessary.

Comparing a cap to a jet engine is the most ignorant thing i've read on scion life in a while. Maybe you can help me here, but a cap takes over 5 seconds to recharge and less than 1 second to discharge. So if you have a note that hits for longer than a second and more frequently than once every 5 seconds, then you've got no solution.

Also, a cap makes your alternator work harder (it has to recharge the cap AND run everything else).

I'm not saying they're useless, but they shouldn't be considered a quick fix to an electrical problem that is seated in a lack of appropriate power.

i put the oem battery in and put a large ground from the battery to the engine block and the problem is gone. i think the old yellow top was bad.

thanks for all the help

Comparing a cap to a jet engine is the most ignorant thing i've read on scion life in a while.

Well if that's what I had said, I would agree with you. However.....

before you tell someone they themselves, or the information they post is ignorant, you should have a clear understanding of what they said, as well as the argument in general. In no way did I ever state, suggest, imply, or otherwise mention that a cap was like a jet engine. If you re-read my post, and you comprehend what I said, you'll understand that this is what I was suggesting:

Installing a bigger battery, better alt, and upgrading the wire, was overkill for a problem that occurs only when driving at night, with the amp/subs on. I was comparing that thought, to adding a jet engine to a car, because someone wants it to "go faster". I'll rehash it for you since you didn't get it the first time; If the persons problem was dimming lights while night driving and playng music, the person should start small, and work his way up the ladder. Replace the big 3 wires, then go to a cap, then replace the alternator/battery.

If you don't agree with what I said, fine so be it. But telling me I'm ignorant when 1) you don't know a damn thing about me, 2) you don't even read/understand what I said(evident since you paraphrased my comments as comparing a cap to jet engine) makes *you* look ignorant, not me.


I'm glad Garful got his problem fixed in the cheapest manner possible :)

Okay, go buy 100 capacitors and tell me how well the problem gets solved.

You need a capacitor. It provides instant electricity when your amp needs it. The battery provides long term electricity but doesn't do as well with fluctuations. You need power that does both, lasts long and can fluctuate. You need to add a Capacitor to your system. Stupidity.hurting.brain.

Maybe not well explained... but he is correct. A capacitor deals with transient spikes and short duration bursts due to its filtering property. If he is experiencing short duration dimming of the lights, a cap may be all he needs. However, if the system is constantly drawing more current than the charging system can supply, then more upgrades are needed. Remember that the charging system has to supply all of the current drawn by the entire system, regardless of caps or batteries.

Wow, all the tripe in here would gag a goat. Guys, please follow this quote: It's better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt! Follow Engifineer's advice...he is correct.

Stiffening Caps
What are they? What do they do, really?

This definition will be in its simplest form. You will see audio capacitors referred to as Stiffening Capacitors. A capacitor is a devise that stores electrical energy. Well, you say that’s what a battery does. Well yes it does, but the difference is the ability and speed that this electrical energy is able to be discharged.

Batteries are designed to store electrical energy for long periods of time. A battery also discharges slowly. A capacitor charges and discharges very rapidly. The reason behind this is due to the internal resistance of both devices. A battery has a high resistance that allows for long-term energy storage and a slow discharge. The capacitor has virtually no internal resistance, which allows for rapid charges and discharges.

An amplifier requires current as music signal passes through it. This creates transient signals in the amplifier. The problem occurs when many of these signal come in rapid succession in a short period of time. The time we are talking about are very small fractions of a second (milliseconds). If your electrical system is unable to react to this it causes a sagging effect in the audio output.

As the current goes up, so must the voltage. Since you can’t increase the voltage as the current requirement increases we get a decrease in voltage and this decrease in voltage causes a sagging power supply. Amplifiers work best at 14.5 volts and can easily overcome a factory installed alternator current output capacity. When the engine is turned off, the system requirements are supplied by the battery increasing the problem of supplying the transient requirements. You could add 10 or 20 more batteries and it wouldn’t help. Remember, as we explained above batteries can’t supply energy quickly enough to supply the transient needs of the amplifier. Please note that these transients may be 100 amps. They occur so fast that your fuse will not be effected, remember this takes place in milliseconds.

By adding a large stiffening capacitor to your amplifier input power line you should be able to meet these transient requirements. Remember as we explained above, a capacitor can store energy very fast and discharge energy very fast. This should solve the transient current requirement to the amplifier.

The voltage of the capacitor can only be the same as the alternator output or if the engine is off, to the level of the battery. So, as you can see a capacitor doesn’t maintain battery levels. If you are still having energy shortages to operate your system you may need to look into a high output alternator.

hmmmm

Wow, all the tripe in here would gag a goat. Guys, please follow this quote: It's better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt! Follow Engifineer's advice...he is correct.

Stiffening Caps
What are they? What do they do, really?

This definition will be in its simplest form. You will see audio capacitors referred to as Stiffening Capacitors. A capacitor is a devise that stores electrical energy. Well, you say that’s what a battery does. Well yes it does, but the difference is the ability and speed that this electrical energy is able to be discharged.

Batteries are designed to store electrical energy for long periods of time. A battery also discharges slowly. A capacitor charges and discharges very rapidly. The reason behind this is due to the internal resistance of both devices. A battery has a high resistance that allows for long-term energy storage and a slow discharge. The capacitor has virtually no internal resistance, which allows for rapid charges and discharges.

An amplifier requires current as music signal passes through it. This creates transient signals in the amplifier. The problem occurs when many of these signal come in rapid succession in a short period of time. The time we are talking about are very small fractions of a second (milliseconds). If your electrical system is unable to react to this it causes a sagging effect in the audio output.

As the current goes up, so must the voltage. Since you can’t increase the voltage as the current requirement increases we get a decrease in voltage and this decrease in voltage causes a sagging power supply. Amplifiers work best at 14.5 volts and can easily overcome a factory installed alternator current output capacity. When the engine is turned off, the system requirements are supplied by the battery increasing the problem of supplying the transient requirements. You could add 10 or 20 more batteries and it wouldn’t help. Remember, as we explained above batteries can’t supply energy quickly enough to supply the transient needs of the amplifier. Please note that these transients may be 100 amps. They occur so fast that your fuse will not be effected, remember this takes place in milliseconds.

By adding a large stiffening capacitor to your amplifier input power line you should be able to meet these transient requirements. Remember as we explained above, a capacitor can store energy very fast and discharge energy very fast. This should solve the transient current requirement to the amplifier.

The voltage of the capacitor can only be the same as the alternator output or if the engine is off, to the level of the battery. So, as you can see a capacitor doesn’t maintain battery levels. If you are still having energy shortages to operate your system you may need to look into a high output alternator.

Again, nice explanation!

Wow :eyes: I am happy to see that there are a few people that understand basic physics. I see so many people that want to make big power with small power wire, small fuses, under sized alternators, stock batteries..... There are a lot of "quick fixes and band aids but there are no magic short cuts. It is all very simple. You have to have big power to make big power.

P.S.
If anyone really wants to upgrade their alternator I would be happy to try to help you get a good price.

engifineer, I just cut and pasted it from the other thread....too much retyping :rofl:

boom12v, you would probably find a great market in here if you know of some good pricing for alt rewinds or even alt replacement. Seen many threads of people needing this (they just don't know they need it :rofl: ).

I have some contacts that are making great replacment alts. Good prices I am willing to help just let me know

Ahhh, I just noticed your with Memphis Car Audio :bow: My daughter is saving up for your components for her TC. We were talking last night and she said she should be ready to buy by the end of April (2 more paychecks). MClass series all the way :clap:

Thank you the kind words. I am sure she will enjoy them PM me if you have any questions.

i just installed 2-12" infinity subs with a kenwood 900 watt amp, and when i raise the volume at night with my light on, i don't notice any dimming....looks fine to me....

in my other car (98 corolla), it basically has the same setup except it has a 1 farad, and turning the stereo up halfway, my lights start to dim....maybe i run new grounds in the engine bay....if that doesn't work, i'll look into the yellow top.

:doh: Doesn't get it.

:doh: Doesn't get it.

:rofl: and it's staring him in the face. Maybe he needs an ALTernative solution :rofl:

I hope you can't get warned by site admin for bad jokes. :P

I hope you can't get warned by site admin for bad jokes. :P

:nails:

:rofl:

:doh: Doesn't get it.

:rofl: and it's staring him in the face. Maybe he needs an ALTernative solution :rofl:

LOL...thanks for the laugh.....as horrible as it is :)