Whats u guys take on it pro's nad con's? my cousin brags his elemnt is water proof material inside dunno how true that statement is. but the elements suicide doors were pretty cool(if only that was on the xB).

those doors are ok, but kinda useless in my opinion. You have to open the front doors b4 you can open the rear doors!! It defeats the purpose of having a 4 door!!

I hate those suicide doors...

you need to open the front doors for the people to get out of the back...you can't roll down the windows, they're the sucky pop-outs. On the Scion the rear windows go ALL the way down.

Also, if you're in the back seat of an element you can't see anything but the B-pillar.
it's an ok car, but no comparison to Scion.

These two vehicles shouldn't even be compared--it's apples and oranges.

They aren't even in the same class--people constantly make comparisons just because they are "boxy".

yeh i know.............but "boxy" should be its own category :lol:

yeh, i compared the two. personally i think the scion owns it. its a 1000lbs lighter, has teh standard keyless entry, holds more resale value after 3 years, has more options, and i forgot a few more.

but im comparing the base model element to the scion

Now that the Scion xB is out all I think when an Element drives by is "ugly". I have checked them out and all the seat positions can be cool, but being able to hose down the interior is really unnecessary IMO. If they removed the body clad panels and painted the whole thing it can look pretty sweet though, as I recently saw from an auto show where Honda had a custom one painted all black.

I'll still take my xBox over it though. :wink:

^^^ yeah... the nasty plastic body panels is a turn off for me....

They're two different vehicles for two different types of people.

I'd get the element if I was into many outdoor activities, planned on going off road (Element has AWD available), and planned on getting the interior of my vehicle dirty. That's what the element is for - the interior can practically be sprayed out with a hose, there's body cladding on the outside because paint would get scratched up. It's a very utilitarian vehicle, offering more horsepower and torque the the xB, more interior room, and a better transmission than Toyota could ever WISH to build.

The xB is a vehicle for people who value space, but don't plan on driving their car on the beach or off road. It's small, has a lower price, much smaller engine (although it's pretty light), and more standard features than the Element. What we sacrifice in size we get back in option, what the element sacrifices in options it makes up in sheer size. It's marketed as a tuner car, touting it the amount of customization that's available from the factory and in aftermarket accessories.

Two different cars marketed to two different types of people. Don't knock on it if it doesn't appeal to you, the Element and xB are both great cars. Unfortunately, some people around here feel as if some rivalry should exist, creating zealous hatred of the other :roll:

And to Jatt - where did you get your theory on better resale value?!?? We're talking about freakin' Honda and Toyotas - two brands that have nearly equal residual value percentages - both are amoung the highest in the industry. That's like saying that a Honda is going to be unreliable, so you should buy a Toyota! :roll:

And to Jatt - where did you get your theory on better resale value?!?? We're talking about freakin' Honda and Toyotas - two brands that have nearly equal residual value percentages - both are amoung the highest in the industry. That's like saying that a Honda is going to be unreliable, so you should buy a Toyota! :roll:

i got the theory from honda's website. goto honda's website, click compare. then compare the two vehicles. after 3 years, toyota has a better resale value by 2% :)

no body said anything about honda being unreliable :!: thats just assume 'ing things. which makes an ___ out of you and me. haha. ok enough jokes.

Wow, this conversation sounds familiar (I wonder if there was some kind of HUGE argument over on the Element forum...) :?: :wink:

" CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG " all this hatered for each other... :cry: we should all rally against our ultimated foe CARS................................BOX POWER!BOX POWER!

And to Jatt - where did you get your theory on better resale value?!?? We're talking about freakin' Honda and Toyotas - two brands that have nearly equal residual value percentages - both are amoung the highest in the industry. That's like saying that a Honda is going to be unreliable, so you should buy a Toyota! :roll:

i got the theory from honda's website. goto honda's website, click compare. then compare the two vehicles. after 3 years, toyota has a better resale value by 2% :)

no body said anything about honda being unreliable :!: thats just making assume 'ing things. which makes an ___ out of you and me. haha. ok enough jokes.

I was using if for comparison sake, to point out how ridiculous your statement was. Also, where are you getting your information - this is what I just took DIRECTLY off of Honda's website:

" (Element) ALG Residual Value after 36 months is 5% greater.
(Element) ALG Residual Value after 60 months is 7% greater. "

In other words - they're in a statistical dead heat.

congrats :roll:

Also, the Element has a better interior with much more friendly dash material, and hard surfaces. It's obvious where toyota was able to cut down on manufacturing costs on the xB - there are trim gaps everywhere (but that's to be expected in a vehicle of this price range, so it really doesn't bother me). If your a dashstroker, you'll like the Element's interior better.

compaing the xB and element is getting old. everyone knows they are not in the same class.

Exactly, there is no need to compare the two. That's like comparing a Toyota Camry and a Toyota Echo or something just because they are both sedans and have a somewhat similar shape. They are two totally different cars, they are different types of cars. One is an SUV and the other is a regular car with a box shaped shell. They are in different price ranges etc etc etc.
I really don't think anyone is gonna actually spend nights tossing and turning at night trying to decide which one to get. They both have things that the other does not, and it all depends on what you need.
Come on, enought comparing....

If you're going to compare the Scion to something, why not something more like the Scion to compare it to. That's what I hate about a lot of the auto mags. They like to do comparisons on such dissimilar things, like Corvette's vs Neons, etc. I even remember seeing comparisons in some mags b/w cars and airplanes (Maybach vs Gulfstream, Mustang GT vs. P-51). How ridiculous are those? What's the point? There's really nothing else on the US market that's even close to the xb.

Carpont.com goes so far as to say xB's top competitors are Malibu Maxx, Focus Wagon, Rio Cinco, Protoge5 Wagon, Impreza Wagon, and Aerio SX.

IMO, the closest thing in size/MPG/coolness factor is the Base MINI, but even that can't truly be compared. It's definitely in a different price category, and forget about interior space compared to the xB.

We could start trying to compare against non-US models, like the MB Smart, or the Nissan Cube, but we can't get them here, so who cares?

I would like to see a "box car" comparison in a car mag (or somewhere) with these cars:

xA
xB
Suzuki Aerio SX (FWD)
Chrysler PT Cruiser (non turbo)
Honda Element DX (FWD)
Kia Rio Cinco
Chevrolet Aveo

Maybe include these too:
Mazda 3 wagon
Ford Focus ZX5 or wagon

The base prices would range from about $13K (xA to probably around $18K for the Element). All would be manual transmission and FWD. I think it'd be an entertaining read.

I would like to see a "box car" comparison in a car mag (or somewhere) with these cars:

xA
xB
Suzuki Aerio SX (FWD)
Chrysler PT Cruiser (non turbo)
Honda Element DX (FWD)
Kia Rio Cinco
Chevrolet Aveo

Maybe include these too:
Mazda 3 wagon
Ford Focus ZX5 or wagon

The base prices would range from about $13K (xA to probably around $18K for the Element). All would be manual transmission and FWD. I think it'd be an entertaining read.

I've seen some comparisons of the Suzuki, and the xB as well as the Aveo and the Protege5. I would definately compare the Protege5 to the xB, especially since I have one of each! I love our Protege5, but I'd much rather have my xB. Much cooler ride, with much more interior room. If I were to compare the Element to anything, (I'm quoting this from the Element argument on their board that a few of us Scion owners decided to get into) I would compare it to the Aztek. I'm not suggesting in appearance (I don't like Elements much, but Azteks are the most hidious vehicles EVER created) but in usability and versitility. Seat arrangement/movability in the Element is a cool feature not to mention the availability of 4WD. But if we're going to compare anything lets stick with the stuff in our "wagon" class, not in the "small SUV" class. We don't compare our cars to a RAV4, or a CRV, so why an Element? Let's just stick with our own class... the only thing we have in common with the Element is that they're both boxes and we should be united under that. :wink:

I would like to see a "box car" comparison in a car mag (or somewhere) with these cars:

xA
xB
Suzuki Aerio SX (FWD)
Chrysler PT Cruiser (non turbo)
Honda Element DX (FWD)
Kia Rio Cinco
Chevrolet Aveo

Maybe include these too:
Mazda 3 wagon
Ford Focus ZX5 or wagon

The base prices would range from about $13K (xA to probably around $18K for the Element). All would be manual transmission and FWD. I think it'd be an entertaining read.

Try here:
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison?tid=edmunds.n.comparelanding.vdpcomparator..6.Suzuki*&styleid=100327685&styleid=100364240&styleid=100257487&styleid=100256278&op=21&basestyleid=100340290
Good information!!

They're two different vehicles for two different types of people.

I'd get the element if I was into many outdoor activities, planned on going off road (Element has AWD available), and planned on getting the interior of my vehicle dirty. That's what the element is for - the interior can practically be sprayed out with a hose, there's body cladding on the outside because paint would get scratched up. It's a very utilitarian vehicle, offering more horsepower and torque the the xB, more interior room, and a better transmission than Toyota could ever WISH to build.


You would be very disappointed if you took an Element off-road. It has about an inch more ground clearance than our xBs! The supposedly washable interior suffers from speakers mounted low to the floor. If you were to really spray out the interior with a hose you would kill the speakers! Power to weight ratios of the Element and xB are nearly the same.

If you really want to go off road and need xB- or Element-type space the new stretched Jeep Wrangler would be much better, but of course you would be on a first name basis with the service writer at the Jeep dealer.

But I have taken an element offroad, and it did very well in sand :) The 4wd did kick in, and it helped alot. Plus the K24 engine is is one of the best in the industry.

These two vehicles shouldn't even be compared--it's apples and oranges.

They aren't even in the same class--people constantly make comparisons just because they are "boxy".

i still say if they sold this one, i would buy it:

http://www.streettuners.com/honda_news/studio_e/SIDEFLAME.jpg

Do I have to put one of my stickers on this thread?

Do I have to put one of my stickers on this thread?

:lol: DO IT!!!

If painting the panels didn't cost $6000 from the factory...the element wouldn't be that bad. It looks like a Urban Assault Vehicle...

http://www.mikochu.com/junk/element.jpg

They had an orange element with painted panels at the honda dealership my sister works at. It looked like a festively plump Hot Lava xB... =P

6k for some paint :shock:

6k for some paint :shock:

they gotta take apart the car... prep the plastic, prime it up, powder coat, bake, then gloss, then bake? I don't know, I don't do automotive body work...

whatever floats their boat

But I have taken an element offroad, and it did very well in sand :) The 4wd did kick in, and it helped alot. Plus the K24 engine is is one of the best in the industry.

I was thinking more of rocks than sand! Even the CRV has more ground clearance than the Element!

The Element engine is quite good. It's too bad that they put the Accord-tuned version in the Element rather than the CRV-tuned version. This was strictly a cost decision, since the Element is built in the same plant as the Accord. The CRV gets maximum torque at 3600RPM versus 4500 for the Accord. If you drive the CRV and Element back-to-back, the CRV is noticably quicker. I don't think that the weight difference is great enough to account for that performance difference.

George

That painted element looks tasty.

Looked at both and drove both last week.
I expected the Element to be better. Suicide doors are a pita - especailly when you carry more than 2 people on a regular basis ... even worse if you pick them up. Rear seats are a pita to "hang." Drove well, good seating positions front and rear - more storage behind rear seats.
Very pleasantly suprised by the xB. Extremely easy entry/exit. Comfortable seats. Roomy. Price is obviously great. Less wind noise than any car in the price range - better than the Odyssey I drove same day. Great automatic - I'll test drive a stick as soon as my dealer gets more.

It's definately apples and oranges, but I was truly considering both. With the price difference, the xB wins hands down. If you gave the Scion a bigger engine and priced it like an Element EX, Scion wins. Basically, you'd have to drop the price on the Element and eliminate my need for rear doors to make me take the Element.

I agree that the Protege 5 is the closest comparison in cost and class. I drove one a couple thousand miles last summer. I'd take the Scion for the roominess, but the 5 still has the advantage in power (maybe I should say pep) and agility.

A slightly lowered/stiffened , low psi forced induction xB is my new goal to get the best of all worlds. Well, I'm still hoping Toyota brings the AWD version over by the time I'm ready to trade the current one.

6k for some paint :shock:

If you want a better than factory job, that's what you're gonna pay. Anyhting less is subpar - plus the panels actually were never made to be painted, so there's TONNES of prep work that has to go into them.

There is a reason they call them "Suicide" doors.

There is a reason they call them "Suicide" doors.

Actually, true "suicide doors" may be opened independently of the front doors. The Element doors can't which keeps them safe from opening while in motion.

That black one is the best looking element alive.

I meant "suicide" as in if you get hit between those doors...it's about all over for those sitting there. Kind of like the old Lincolns, no support btwn the doors, but your right, the independent opening meant someone getting the "door prize" if you step out without looking.

Why decide when you can have the best of BOTH worlds?! :D

Can't we all just get along?

6k for some paint :shock:

they gotta take apart the car... prep the plastic, prime it up, powder coat, bake, then gloss, then bake? I don't know, I don't do automotive body work...

yeah me either but ur pretty close because i seen the guy explain how they do it and demonstarte it on the last ep of tunner transformation on speed channel wit the for focus

anyone ever thought of suiciding the rear doors on their xB? :D

The element is clunky looking and the xB is very sleek

I meant "suicide" as in if you get hit between those doors...it's about all over for those sitting there. Kind of like the old Lincolns, no support btwn the doors, but your right, the independent opening meant someone getting the "door prize" if you step out without looking.
As an ex-Element owner, a few quick comments on the suicide doors:

The support (b-arm?) is built-in to the doors, ... it's not like it's totally unprotected and going to buckle-in with no resistance if you get t-boned. The passengers in the back actually sit about a foot BEHIND where the door hinges to frame.

The built-in support makes the suicide door very very very heavy (but easy to swing open/close). You have to "train" the passengers to gently shut it otherwise they slam the hell out of it.

Putting the support into the suicide door means that when the front and suicide doors are open, you have a HUGE entrance with no "pole" between the front and rear seats. This makes it super easy to get big things (packages and people) in and out of the car.

If you haul a lot of people around a lot of the time, then not having four full doors with four full windows would be something to think about. But if you're the kinda person that only every-now-and-then does that, plus hauls around a bunch of junk on the weekends, then it works out pretty well.

I think that Toyota is gonna kick butt with the Scion -- it's a sweet looking ride with a nice price tag and a lot of things can be done to it. But I also agree with others that it's not in the same category as the Element. The "design philosophy" behind both seem totally different.

The supposedly washable interior suffers from speakers mounted low to the floor. If you were to really spray out the interior with a hose you would kill the speakers!
You CAN'T spray the interior down with a hose .. unlike Wranglers, the E doesn't have any drain holes, so you'd end up with about an inch of water in the front foot wells!!!

There are no electrical connections in the Element within (I forget how many) inches of the floor, and the speaker wire connections are waterproof. Again, still not designed to get "sprayed", but you don't have to worry about sloshing water around.

Washable = you can take a pretty wet towel and wipe everything down and not worry about getting that funky smell that can happen in some cars with carpet.

You can also pile into it after going swimming and not worry about messing anything up.

Not touting the Element (which I just traded for Wrangler) :) , .. digging the Scion .. just don't like misconceptions flying around ...

WEEELLL, at least i can roll down my rear windows! :wink:

I meant "suicide" as in if you get hit between those doors...it's about all over for those sitting there. Kind of like the old Lincolns, no support btwn the doors, but your right, the independent opening meant someone getting the "door prize" if you step out without looking.
As an ex-Element owner, a few quick comments on the suicide doors:

The support (b-arm?) is built-in to the doors, ... it's not like it's totally unprotected and going to buckle-in with no resistance if you get t-boned. The passengers in the back actually sit about a foot BEHIND where the door hinges to frame.

The built-in support makes the suicide door very very very heavy (but easy to swing open/close). You have to "train" the passengers to gently shut it otherwise they slam the hell out of it.

Putting the support into the suicide door means that when the front and suicide doors are open, you have a HUGE entrance with no "pole" between the front and rear seats. This makes it super easy to get big things (packages and people) in and out of the car.

If you haul a lot of people around a lot of the time, then not having four full doors with four full windows would be something to think about. But if you're the kinda person that only every-now-and-then does that, plus hauls around a bunch of junk on the weekends, then it works out pretty well.

I think that Toyota is gonna kick butt with the Scion -- it's a sweet looking ride with a nice price tag and a lot of things can be done to it. But I also agree with others that it's not in the same category as the Element. The "design philosophy" behind both seem totally different.

An interesting point someone made about the Element doors which I found interesting:

If you are getting out of the E in a parking lot, you open the front door to get the rear door to open. Then, when the person steps out of the back door, you both are caught in this little triangle where you have to move forward to close the rear door. Sounds really awkward...

And I don't see why a little healthy debate is a bad thing. Even tho wedon't group them, obviously lots of people do or can't tell the difference between the two, based on the questions I get from people. We are doing a service to comparison shoppers to give honest fact based opinions. If it were just baseless bashing, I could see the point...