I prefer to use supreme gas, I can actually feel a difference from regular to supreme. It also lasts longer too. What do guys prefer :?: Oh yeah....what gas station do you like to go to? I always go to 76, but my second choice is Chevron with Techron :wink:

Sorry dood, but the effect your feeling is psychosomatic - there are absolutly NO benifits for using premium when your car was designed to use the lower grade. Now, once some people figure out how to advance the timing of our cars, then premium fuel is a must. Until then, you're just foolishly wasting your money.

Gas is gas, almost all companies buy direct from the same distributors. the only real difference are the detergents and additives some offer, like Chevron.

Don't worry, it's a common misconception :P Why do you think they tack on words like 'super" and "plus" to the higher grades, yet cann the lowest "regular"? :P It's all about marketing - mentally it makes you think the more expensive one is better, when in reality you get nothing from it :)

Sorry dood, but the effect your feeling is psychosomatic - there are absolutly NO benifits for using premium when your car was designed to use the lower grade. Now, once some people figure out how to advance the timing of our cars, then premium fuel is a must. Until then, you're just foolishly wasting your money.

Gas is gas, almost all companies buy direct from the same distributors. the only real difference are the detergents and additives some offer, like Chevron.

I was going to type the exact same thing--as I've been trying to convey this same message to people for years...but yet some (uneducated of course) refuse to listen, time and time again!

Keep on wasting your money folks--regular for my 108hp beast. Why would you differ from what it states in the manual that you get with your car man, would you try to assemble a kitchen table in your own way--or follow the directions?!

I use regular.

" WHAT YOU PAY FOR IS WHAT YOU GET " :twisted:

Regular there is no reason to jump to premium you are running stock so it doesnt change much....now with turbo and a blower then you may want to run high octane gas...

Sometimes it helps ... My last car really, really didn't like the winter "reformulated" gas we get in California. Switching to 89 octane for the winter months (winter in name alone) really made a difference.

yah i see no point in spending the money on supreme when the car is made for 87...

I did an unscientific experiment by putting in supreme in my 1997 Toyota Tercel and got 38 mpg instead of 36 mpg with similar driving patterns. Even if it isn't psychosomatic, paying for supreme rather than regular for 2 extra mpg ends up costing a lot more than it's worth. You're better off taking better care of your car in other ways like with regular oil changes, etc. :D

I also use sapreme and beleive it or not in my experience its showd me a diffrence through time.

I also use sapreme and beleive it or not in my experience its showd me a diffrence through time.

I believe JDMxB's comment was meant for you: "but yet some (uneducated of course) refuse to listen"

:P

It's not psychosomatic at all. It does make a different in my experience. If I punch the accelerator with cheap gas nothing happens for a while. With premium it responds alot faster. This has ben my experience, believe me I don't "like" to spend more money but I definitely don't like getting the least power that I can from my 93hp Tercel. This was my experience with my 2000 Echo too, so there ya go. :D

higher octane will make a difference in some instances. usually with older engine reduce pinging but since our engines our brand spanking new... there is no need to use higher octane. Save the $$ and get some parts

I did an unscientific experiment by putting in supreme in my 1997 Toyota Tercel and got 38 mpg instead of 36 mpg with similar driving patterns. Even if it isn't psychosomatic, paying for supreme rather than regular for 2 extra mpg ends up costing a lot more than it's worth. You're better off taking better care of your car in other ways like with regular oil changes, etc. :D

2mpg is well within the standard deviation of that test.

try it like 3 times each way and see if its always better mpg with high octane

It's not psychosomatic at all. It does make a different in my experience. If I punch the accelerator with cheap gas nothing happens for a while. With premium it responds alot faster. This has ben my experience, believe me I don't "like" to spend more money but I definitely don't like getting the least power that I can from my 93hp Tercel. This was my experience with my 2000 Echo too, so there ya go. :D

show me the dyno or the timeslips.

ive seen way too many people fooled by car mods in this way.

it *is* possible though. Someone posted that our engines have a knock sensor, many ECUs will occasionally bump up the timing a bit when no knock events have occured for a while, thereby taking advtange of whatever octane gas you run by adjusting the timing automatically.

It's not psychosomatic at all. It does make a different in my experience. If I punch the accelerator with cheap gas nothing happens for a while. With premium it responds alot faster. This has ben my experience, believe me I don't "like" to spend more money but I definitely don't like getting the least power that I can from my 93hp Tercel. This was my experience with my 2000 Echo too, so there ya go. :D

I spent a lot of time in engineering school studying various fuels, including detailed analysis and testing of fuels with a specialized testing engine.

The _only_ difference between the various octane numbers of fuel is resistance to pre-ignition. In simplest terms, this means that higher octane fuel actually is _more_ difficult to ignite than lower octane fuel. In commerically-available automotive fuels (octane range 85-93) this effect is actually rather small.

The only way that higher octane fuels can produce greater power or mileage is if the engine runs higher compression ratios that would make use of the greater resistance to preignition. If you simply switch from low octane fuel to high octane fuel in an engine designed for low octane fuel the only effect will be a lightening of your wallet.

There is _one_ way that higher octane fuels could produce the effect some seem to feel. In the case where the low-octane fuel produces the start of pre-ignition, the ECU will retard the spark timing to prevent knock. If you happen to get a bad batch of fuel, this protects the engine from damage, and does so so seamlessly that all the driver perceives is a slight loss of power. If you were to switch from the "bad" gas to premium, and were sensitive to any change, then you would probably see what you are looking for.

The only way to know for sure is to put the car on a dyno to test power, and to run the car for extended periods (as in thousands of miles) to establish any difference in mileage.

For the time being, my xB is happy on the cheapest regular I can find. If everyone bought fuel at the cheapest available station we wouldn't be looking at $2 per gallon gas here on the Left Coast.

George

I did an unscientific experiment by putting in supreme in my 1997 Toyota Tercel and got 38 mpg instead of 36 mpg with similar driving patterns. Even if it isn't psychosomatic, paying for supreme rather than regular for 2 extra mpg ends up costing a lot more than it's worth. You're better off taking better care of your car in other ways like with regular oil changes, etc. :D

2mpg is well within the standard deviation of that test.

try it like 3 times each way and see if its always better mpg with high octane

At $1.89 for supreme and $1.69 for regular and filling up with 10 gallons, regular might get me 360 miles and supreme might get me 380 miles. If this is true, then regular will cost me about 4.7 cents per mile while supreme will cost 5.0 cents per mile. I think I'll stick with regular.

From what scionMIX said, my likely gains in mpg from using supreme were due to an older engine working slightly better with a higher octane formula of gas.

:D Hey I was just saying that this works for me. To each his own.

I'll stick withmy premium.

if the manual says 87...then go with 87.....
its not gonna make difference...in fact, u losing performance...my friend dyno'd his car using different octanes...

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=156&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=grade+gas

:D Hey I was just saying that this works for me. To each his own.

I'll stick withmy premium.

Hey, you wanna buy some of this Snake Oil I have over here...PM me for a good deal.

supreme in my matrix, regular in the xA

first fill up today regular

:D Hey I was just saying that this works for me. To each his own.

I'll stick withmy premium.

my god, after all that, this guy is still going to buy premium, i usually don't call people names on forums, but if i had to pick one for you, it would be... moron.

if you admit that you buy it because it makes you "feel" better, than i can accept it, but if you actually believe it makes your car drive better/faster, the name sticks (and sticks well).

:D Hey I was just saying that this works for me. To each his own.

I'll stick withmy premium.

my god, after all that, this guy is still going to buy premium, i usually don't call people names on forums, but if i had to pick one for you, it would be... moron.

if you admit that you buy it because it makes you "feel" better, than i can accept it, but if you actually believe it makes your car drive better/faster, the name sticks (and sticks well).

Hey I know what I've experienced in my car, I'm not saying any of you are right or wrong. I'm just giving my opinion and people just want to start trouble.

Alright people, lets not resort to name calling. We all know there are people on this forum who are less informed than others. All we can do is provide the information, as George did so well, and let people take what they want from it.
We all see these debates from time to time. The one that most vividly comes to mind is the oil debate. Some people in this country believe that just because something is more expensive it must be the thing to use. This became evident on another forum when someone mentioned he used redline oil in his SEDAN. His only defense was that it was used in racing and therefore MUST be the best in every application. People tried to tell him up down and sideways that it was a waste of money, but did he listen....NOPE :roll:

Bottom line: If people want to pay $2.00+- more per fill, go right ahead, not gonna hurt my feelings.

With that said, lets talk about the owners manual. Some people only use 87oct because thats what the manual says and not because they understand the differences in combustion. With respect to the fuel requirement the manual is right on, but only because the type of fuel needed isnt impacted by the way a person drives. Oil on the other hand is IMO. As far as I am concerned, when it comes to oil, the manual is written for a sunday driver. If you are the type person who likes to run at high rpms, it may be in your best interest to change your oil more frequently than 5-7k miles, unless of course you have no wish for that engine to run for a long time.
It may also be in your best interest to use a synthetic and learn how to properly break in your engine so synthetics can be used to their potential.
Engine break in and oil used IMO are absolutly relative to each user and mechanical longevity, all of which you will not find in the owners manual. So, I belive the OM is a baseline guide but not always the final word.

Just my .02

G

I put 89 octane in my car and don't know if maybe seemed a tiny bit more powerful, but I noticed that it idled worse than it does when I put 87 into it. I did this twice to make sure it wasn't bad gas or something. Both time it was purchased at different stations.

i stick to the cheapest gas i can find :wink: as for the OIL, i switched to synthetic, and definately noticed a smoother running car, with easier starts, more power and mileage....more than i ever noticed with premium gas...again just my opinion :wink:

Can't using premium gas in a car that's designed for 87 cause carbon build-up or something?

Whatever car I drive, I use what the factory recommends. Excpet when I had my Nissan Sentra that the timing was advanced on, then I used 92.

First off, mentioned in another post is dynoing using a higher octane gas and getting lower numbers, I didn't find any chart.

Secondly, doesn't the scion have vvt (variable valve timing), which would cause the engine to advance its own timing when it didn't sense any knocks?

I am waiting on my scion but I will most likely use reg.

I currently have a 95 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited I-6. It has 132K and I got it with 92K. Since I have gotten the Jeep I have used synthetic motor oil and reg gas and have experienced no pings (except for RACTRAC gas... AVOID!!!)and actually the engine tends to feel like it it idles and revs better dispite the age. Yeah, I am a hardcore Jeep fan so skip the insults... the only reson I'm getting rid of it is that 16mpg in the city is a pain (but always got 22mpg highway), and I really miss standard transmisson. Sorry west coast guys I have touble getting 16 Mpg when gas here is 1.48 a gallon reg. A scion would cut my bill in half.

My recommendation is to stick to reg and pay a bit more for synthetic It will definitly pay off!. And be fore warned most folks I have ever heard say once you switch to synthetic motor is a lifetime of the engine commitment... because it conditions the seals and gaskets) Oh a Note: I use Castrol Syntech but alot of my friends swear by Mobil One. Expect 4 to 6 bucks a pint.

-will

Thanks, fellas. You've convinced me that I need to stick with Regular. :D