Well this one is going to be alil more indepth then the other mods I have posted on this forum in the past few days...

Overall Impression - 50/50

http://www.creativecompacts.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/scion/NologyWires/NologyWiresBox.jpg

Items arrived to us today and decided to go ahead and install them. Combining with our other mods, should show great gains. Well shortly after opening the box, it was easily observed that Nology had sent no Instructions. Now if you have never done a coil on plug conversion from them, you would probably put the stuff in the box and return it because even though after you see it done, you are like ya that was easy, its a bit overwhelming to a newbie.

The installation took a lil under an hour for the fact we did detailed images to hopefully submit a how-to to Nology in hopes they use it and supply it to all customers. If not, atleast our customers will have them. Our installation also took a lil longer than normal because if you recall, we installed the DC Sports Strut Bar and WR Engine Damper. If you have ANY Strut Bar installed, you will have to remove it to do this mod then you can reinstall it when you are done.

Performance - As you can imagine, you are not going to FEEL this in the seat of the car when it comes to HP. Nology is claiming 8.5 Crank HP on this modification. I will note that you can easily tell the increased spark. Also after driving for about 30 miles, you can start to notice the exhaust tone change a lil more. I posted in a previous thread about a heavy rasp sound. Now we only have rasp in the higher RPMs.

In conclusion, for around $200 shipped and an hour of your time, I think this is a very good modification and looks great in the engine bay without the cover or as a hidden mod with the cover. I would say this shouldn't be on your top 3 list of performance mods for bolt ons but it should be right after Intake/Header/Exhaust most definitely.

If you have any questions, just post em here. If you would like to order, please visit us online at CreativeCompacts.Com (http://www.creativecompacts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=922_9107&Category_Code=)

http://www.creativecompacts.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/scion/NologyWires/NologyWiresInstalled.jpg

I will post some pics of mine whenever I load them on my computer. I have had these for about a month and I think they work pretty decent.

yet again, CC is showing that they arent out to just make a sale!

i had a pair of nologys on my celica before. looked good but couldnt really feel any performance increase. one had burned out on me after about 30k miles. drove on 3 cylinders for around 20 miles after that my car was never the same.

Got about 50 miles on the wires so far... All the other company cars are now at the engine tuners so the tC will be driven alot more so we will see how it performs. Also once the high flow cat arrives for the exhaust, I will be doing a dyno pull with all the mods to date.

can u link me to the how-to to Nology.

Not sure if they have officially posted one. I think they only come with the product from CC.

Do they come in various colors?

And uhh, excuse the newbie question, is it necessary to keep keep the engine cover off?

8.5 hp and you can't feel it in the car? Yeah, my $200 is on the way for sure!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

nvm i finally fiqure it out how to install them.

I have had a set of nology wires in the past. The quality of the wires seems to get great but honestly, nology has always been a bit overpriced. And 8HP as a result is HIGHLY unlikely in my opinion. Good product, but I would not put it in my list of first 5 mods to my car.

PIX

1 (http://ydfesports.com/~spray/scion1.JPG)
2 (http://ydfesports.com/~spray/scion2.jpg)
3 (http://ydfesports.com/~spray/scion3.jpg)
4 (http://ydfesports.com/~spray/scion4.jpg)

They look pretty, nice show car touch possibly, but a little on the pricey side...

But, considering the $1200 lambo doors, I guess it's somewhat reasonable... :lalala:

Hey Creative Compacts I got the black wires from you guys and have had it for 600+ miles but im not feeling the color can I trade them for another color?

how about a GB creative?

-taek

8.5 hp and you can't feel it in the car? Yeah, my $200 is on the way for sure!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah. i'm right there with ya.

Hey Creative Compacts I got the black wires from you guys and have had it for 600+ miles but im not feeling the color can I trade them for another color?

Sorry man, no can do... We don't return used products... I would suggest selling out right and reordering the color you want.

Does anyone have any proof from Nology that their claim of 8.5 HP exists, and exactly where on the power curve it occurs at? I'm genuinily at a loss to see where a power gain can occur from converting from coil-on-plug to wires. The entire point of using "high performance" spark plug wires is to lower the resistance from the source of the spark (distributor or coil) to the plug itself, ensuring a hotter, more reliable spark. To me, adding distance (and thus, more resistance) between the coil and plug is taking a step backwards.

If Nology or anyone has dyno results proving me wrong, I'd be glad to shut up. But until then, I'm calling BS on their gain statements.

^^ agreed.

all these claims to power with no proof get old :(

grounding kits, plug wires, cooling diverters, etc... they shouldn't even be in the power forum.

^Amen.........

I made my own groounding cables. Really cheap, and not to much time. After the install the main thing i noticed was a really smooth idle. Lemme tell you that the idle does get really smooth. As far as people sayin that it increases throtle responce, i think thats bull. It feels pretty much the same. At higher RPMs it also feels a bit smoother.... and it seems as in 5th doing 80 the RPM's dropped a bit. But i dont really remember what they where at b4 so maybe its in my head. I just dont see a point in spending 200 bucks for that. Lower the price then maybe some people will consider. And show some evidence of the gains.

http://www.creativecompacts.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/scion/NologyWires/NologyWiresInstalled.jpg[/img]


notice it says 8.5 CRANK HP. Crank HP is more than wheel HP. I believe on average, you lose about 18% power through parasitic loss, friction, accessory drives ect. If you took 18% from 8.5 you get 7. Still more than I would guess this mod would net, but it's difficult for your *ahem* butt dyno to notice this small of an increse.

hey so im guessing since u guys dont have the engine cover its not gonna rust or b bad for the engine???

Hey creative compacts... after you install the Nology Hotwires... the engine cover fits?
:doh:
i mean, you can install the Hotwires and keep the stock engine cover?
Yes i know that the Hotwires would be unable to be seen, but i want them hide. I hope someone understand me...

Hey creative compacts... after you install the Nology Hotwires... the engine cover fits?
:doh:
i mean, you can install the Hotwires and keep the stock engine cover?
Yes i know that the Hotwires would be unable to be seen, but i want them hide. I hope someone understand me...

Yes you can I have my stock cover over them.

creative compacts...
any dyno?

yes, you need to slightly modify the foam on the underside of the valve cover, and they will fit.


if anyone is intrested i have these wires for sale..... $170 shipped brand new. pm me if intrested

Is there a link to a tech article showing the engineering behind this?

There are lots of good reasons to move the coils off the head, but I'm not at all convinced this is a problem for the tC.

Is there a link to a tech article showing the engineering behind this?

There are lots of good reasons to move the coils off the head, but I'm not at all convinced this is a problem for the tC.


Does someone want to explain why it is better to move them off the head? I just got the plug wires in and want to know why it is better to move them, then to leave them where they are.

You dont feel the 8hp because it wont provide it... I would be suprised to see ANY increase, especially on a well engineered coil-on-plug ignition system. The most noticeable change I have seen with these types of products has been with the low resistance plugs coupled with these types of wires.... and the change was a destroyed ignition system after a while :rofl:

I am sure the wires in themselves may be nice and look nice, but dont get to excited thinking it will give you a performance increase.

One question I have to ask though.. you say you didnt "feel" any increase, yet you say you "noticed" the increased spark. So how did you notice this????

Sorry to be so skeptical.. I have just never seen any improvements in this type of product.

ok I didnt ask if I was going to feel a difference.. I asked why it is better to move the coils off the head. I didnt pay for these wires. They where giving to me as a sponsor ship. SO blabbing about what someone payed for them is irrelivant to me. I just want to know what is the advantage to moving the coils off the head. If there isnt one then great expalin why that is to.
I dont want to hear any smart a$$ remarks.. It seems like all everyone wants to pitch in is there smart a$$ comments. Not any technical data why they say what they say.

ok I didnt ask if I was going to feel a difference.. I asked why it is better to move the coils off the head. I didnt pay for these wires. They where giving to me as a sponsor ship. SO blabbing about what someone payed for them is irrelivant to me. I just want to know what is the advantage to moving the coils off the head. If there isnt one then great expalin why that is to.
I dont want to hear any smart a$$ remarks.. It seems like all everyone wants to pitch in is there smart a$$ comments. Not any technical data why they say what they say.

Well, I never added any smart a$$ remarks.. but here is some technical info. Just for background sake, so I dont sound like I am talking out my a$$ my engineering experience is in electronics.

As far as performance, I see moving the coils OFF the head as a downgrade. The farther you have to move high voltage, low current power the more issues you will have potentially and the more potential for cross-firing you allow. By running the low voltage, higher current across the plug wires, you reduce the occurance of crossfiring and also the effects of impedance changes over time as the wires degrade. The crossfiring issue is reduced due to the high voltage peices being much shorter and more isolated from one another as well as being more protected from damage.

The only advantage at all that I can see with moving them off the head is that you can place them in a cooler place on the vehicle to attempt at increasing life of the coils themselves. But, with the newer technologies out today that is not as much of an issue with having them above the head.

Keep in mind that there are reasons the manufacturers put so much R&D into creating the coil on plug to start with. They dont do these things without a reason.

Maybe I am missing some logic as to why nology designed this (other than trying to weasel thier way into the coil on plug type applications), but I personally have not seen it yet. I know that with a cooler location and more room you can design a more robust coil system and possibly create a larger spark... but with our applications this is not much of an improvement when you look at the backwards step you are taking by reverting back to a centralized coil system. If anyone can argue a valid reasoning behind this, please feel free to add to this.

******EDIT*****
Sorry to be so long winded, but I forgot one part.

Some my try to argue using the analogy of power transmission systems. In residential and commercial power, it is advantageous to transmit AC, because you can easily raise and lower the voltage, meaning you can transmit high voltage, low current power to the destination, then use a simple transformer to revert back to the low voltage, high current applications. This is important when you are transmitting over hundreds of miles of cable, where the voltage drop using higher current transmission is very much an issue. However, transmitting 12V at relatively higher current a couple of feet is hardly an issue. Also, power lines are very much isolated from the objects around them, reducing arcing through the insulators. This is not the case in a vehicle application, as the plug wires are in very close proximity to not only each other, but the engine components.

And here is some quick info I just looked up from toyoland regarding the improvements of coil on plug ignition, just so I am not posting from personal knowledge only. This also shows that from a performance perspective the advantage lies on the coil on plug design as well:

"Coil-on-plug is an even higher-energy form of distributorless ignition which moves the coils from a centrally located coil pack to individual coils right on top of the plugs, where they can deliver immense amounts of power without having to go through relatively expensive, breakable wires. They are controlled by much smaller wires which are less likely to need replacement in the first ten years. Needless to say, this does not bring a discount in the tuneup cost. However, coil-on-plug ignition, in some cases, does make it pretty hard to get the plugs out."

I guess I need to put in my $0.02 to clarify what I meant. Coil over plug (COP) is the ideal situation. High voltage transmission under the hood is a bad way to do things, and I can show you the scars from finding high voltage ignition faults more than 20 years ago on a Honda motorcycle.

That said, here's my (and a community's worth) experience with Toyco COP. The '93 TT Supra and all subsequest TT Supras (NOT the NAs, they have a distributor) had COP. We had problems with two things: heat damage to the coils themselves, and heat damage to the connectors to the coils.

First off, don't be alarmed by this and say OH CRAP I've got to get my coils off the top of the head. The failures first occurred in APU (single turbo conversions) running very high (over 700hp) power frequently. Keep in mind, the engine was designed to make 320 hp, so when you more than double the power, you also dramatically increase the amount of heat you need to get out from under the hood.

So, the coils on the high powered cars started failing at high rpm. We don't know for sure why, but there is a diode in the HV side to clip back EMF spikes and limit RF noise that we all suspected was the culprit. It is not possible to even get to the diode to fix it, so new coils are the only solution.

From a practical perspective, my car has spent the vast majority of its life as a daily driver, not being flogged to produce huge amounts of power, so my coils lasted 140k miles (about 11 years). Some of the very high power cars killed them in a couple of years. Speed costs money.

The other problem is the connectors for the coils. They would disintegrate when removed from the coil. Fortunately, Lexus carries the connector shells, so they are available, but if this were not the case, we'd have to buy entire wiring harnesses to fix the broken connector shells. Harnesses are seriously expensive from Toyco.

Given these two failures, and the general availability of the Delco coil for the LS-1 with a built-in dwell circuit for a coil near plug (CNP) installation, many Supra owners changed suppliers to use a coil that would not be subjected to the heat of a head containing 800 or more hp.

What does this mean for the tC and the 2AZ? I'd bet there is a shorter service life for the tC's coils if you decide to go FI and spend a lot of time in the boost. Using the Nology wires might extend the life of the coils. It also might introduce it's own service life issues by providing the opportunity for HV to ground itself on some other engine component somewhere down the road. For that reason alone, I'd be inclined to find out if the connectors are available for the tC, and find out how much the coils are. My guess is most guys running boost will be needing coils in 6 or 7 years...

Thank you guys.. that is what I wanted to know.. I am turboing the car soon. It seems like a big pain in the ___ for not a decent pay out if any. I think I will do it for now since it was a sponsorship and the car is going to SEMA. I wonder what advantage NOLOGY says there is to this and why exactly.

so when i get my trd sc lance, you think i should install my nology wires with it?

so can someone do me a favor and send me the directions on how to install these hotwires on the tc??

For the absolute biggest power gain, I would suggest installing them in the trunk, preferrably still in the original box! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I think I'm going to try them too

Enjoy... but in my 100% honest opinion.. Nology is a joke when it comes to this stuff. They convince you of a "need" to remove the coils from the head. There is none and you will be downgrading your car.

As mentioned, the ONLY issue with COP previously was that the coils or connectors could prematurely fail due to heat damage. The perform BETTER than the other system, so your performance gains will be NILL.

From the people I know that have used them.. they have found nology wires to be junk in the long run. And I dont know anyone that would swap a COP system for the standard remote coil.

From my fathers shops experience, he sees a decreasing number of issues with the COP system in terms of failure. They are more hit and miss on 5-6 year old cars (about the same rate as standard coils failed randomly.. which can happen). The diffrence is that when this type of failure happens.. you get one coil that fails.. not an entire coil pack.

Do what you want.. but I see this as nothing but a downgrade performance wise.

Damn, this thread came back from the dead..lol