I did a search and couldn't find anything. I'm guessing its around the 120-125 hp range. Any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Greg

Someone posted up some dyno sheets on another forum of stock tc's (one with 17" wheels, one with 19" wheels.

19" wheels stock tC = 145.12 HP, 152.77 Torque
17" wheels stock tc = 143.08 HP, 151.30 Torque

If these numbers are acurate, it would mean that the tC is underated because there is no way the tC is loosing under 20 hp to the wheels.

Also i think that the supercharger will produce 200hp to the wheels :)

i think its 160...

i think its 160...

No. That is not how much power it has to the wheels. Thats how much power it has at the engine (or something like that, lol). Actually judging from the dyno's (if they are acurate) the tc probably has around 170 hp at the "Crank".

19" wheels stock tC = 145.12 HP, 152.77 Torque
17" wheels stock tc = 143.08 HP, 151.30 Torque

this has to be wrong, there's no way you're going to get more WHP with bigger, heavier rims. it's probably the other way around.

yeah, I would say 140 + - in stock form, there are alot of variables, break in, temprature, humidity, etc that vary from dyno to dyno but everyone has been 140 or better which I think is great, no civic or any other car in our price range looks or has that much power.

thats for the manual tC correct? I've heard the auto only gets 133HP to the wheels and 145lbs/ft.

its possible I haven't seen many dyno sheets on the auto. But there is probably more loss in the drive train so thats probably about right

Someone posted up some dyno sheets on another forum of stock tc's (one with 17" wheels, one with 19" wheels.

19" wheels stock tC = 145.12 HP, 152.77 Torque
17" wheels stock tc = 143.08 HP, 151.30 Torque

If these numbers are acurate, it would mean that the tC is underated because there is no way the tC is loosing under 20 hp to the wheels.

Also i think that the supercharger will produce 200hp to the wheels :)

Aren't front wheel drve cars subject to *less* drive line loss than RWD? So 140ish at the wheels isn't necessarily indicative of the engine being underrated.

In regards to the s/c...bah. It's all speculation until Toyo/TRD makes an official press release, but general thougth is ~200 whp, ~235 with an intercooler.

stock to the wheels with 5spd is 140ish on average, Ive seen a few different dyno sheets

well i dyno'ed my car 5 spd stock

141 hp 151 tq

i guess not that good of a search, look on the scion website...duh

i guess not that good of a search, look on the scion website...duh



ummmm, except that www.scion.com posts hp at the crank, not *whp* like the title of this guys post says. duh.

i guess not that good of a search, look on the scion website...duh



ummmm, except that www.scion.com posts hp at the crank, not *whp* like the title of this guys post says. duh.
:rofl: pwned!

^^ lol, and that was the nice version I posted....:P

Please ignore "duh" boy above, it is one of the few words he knows (search his posts and you will see what I mean... must be about 15 years old or so).

I would have to agree that those dynos are incorrect, the larger rims will yeild less power. Someone here in Minneapolis brought in dyno sheets from their tC after they bought it. It produced about 146 HP to the wheels. I agree that they must have under-rated a tad on the BHP numbers. I usually would guestimate about 20% loss to the wheels, but may be closer to 15%. The stock dynos I have seen posted online also come out in the 140 - 145 WHP range.

Aren't front wheel drve cars subject to *less* drive line loss than RWD? So 140ish at the wheels isn't necessarily indicative of the engine being underrated.


Yes front wheel drive cars are subject to less drive train loos than RWD's. But you don't have to compare it to a RWD. Look at the RSX-S (04). It has about 170 hp at the wheels. Which means it looses about 30 hp while the tc is only loosing about 15-20 hp. I think it is possible that the tC is underated. Not by alot maybe 5-10 hp.

Yes front wheel drive cars are subject to less drive train loos than RWD's. But you don't have to compare it to a RWD. Look at the RSX-S (04). It has about 170 hp at the wheels. Which means it looses about 30 hp while the tc is only loosing about 15-20 hp. I think it is possible that the tC is underated. Not by alot maybe 5-10 hp.

I was asking because typically i've heard that you can safely estimate a 15-20% driveline loss for rwd vehicles (i.e. 15-20% difference when measuring betwen crank and wheels). If Front wheel drives do in fact have a lower driveline loss, than 12.5% (20/160 =12.5%) difference is probably about right.

I would have to agree that those dynos are incorrect, the larger rims will yeild less power. .

But that's only if the larger rims *weigh* more, correct? I.e. a heavier rim is going to have more mass/inertia, so the same amout of power available will end up doing less work (meaning less hp)?

Yeah, that makes sense. You're probably right. I was just guessing it might be underated compared to the rsx-s.

I would have to agree that those dynos are incorrect, the larger rims will yeild less power. .

But that's only if the larger rims *weigh* more, correct? I.e. a heavier rim is going to have more mass/inertia, so the same amout of power available will end up doing less work (meaning less hp)?

That sounds logical to me.

I would have to agree that those dynos are incorrect, the larger rims will yeild less power. .

But that's only if the larger rims *weigh* more, correct? I.e. a heavier rim is going to have more mass/inertia, so the same amout of power available will end up doing less work (meaning less hp)?

If the larger rims weigh considerably less than the smaller ones maybe. Another factor is the size itself. Since torque = Fd, (F being force, d being distance) increasing the radius of the wheel effectively lowers the force that the tire applies along the ground for a given amount of torque. So for the same weight wheel and a set amount of torque applied to the axle, a larger wheel will produce less power on the dyno than a smaller one.

right, but on low profile tires, you could conceivably increase the rim diameter, and decrease the tire height, leaving you with a larger rim size, but the same overall tire height, correct?

correct, so if you have larger rims with lower profiles that keep the diameter the same, and they weigh less, then you could be applying more power to the ground. But you would be running some mighty low profiles on 19s to do that.. talk about buuumpy! :P Not saying they didnt though, it is entirely possible.

yeah...you'd be riding on a pretty thin strip of rubber, huh :)

I like this post even though it's an old question...brought out some logical thinkers. ^ ^ Now this is how the rest of the forum should be have. ^ ^

yeah...you'd be riding on a pretty thin strip of rubber, huh :)

Put it this way... you would have one hurtin bladder :rofl:

lol!

This is from a stock Scion tC, dynoed in 3rd gear:

http://www.draxas.com/dynos/StockScion-tC.jpg

This is from a stock Scion tC, dynoed in 3rd gear:

http://www.draxas.com/dynos/StockScion-tC.jpg

Thanks for posting :)

That should be 143.49 HP... the 153.41 is the TQ. This car was indeed stock. Dynoed at R&D Dyno in Gardena, CA... owned by Phillip, the current President of the SoCal tC Club.

We are set to do another dyno very soon with K&N Intake, AlphaWerks Header, Draxas S-PIpe and Draxas Exhaust...

Most Ive seen are about 140+- a few each way. It really depends on too many things to give something exact.

hmmmmm, i have a question...if torque = force x distance...wouldnt the further away the force is from the radius mean more torque...so larger wheels would mean more torque? for instance...lets say a force of 1000# at a distance of 2 inches would be a torque of 2000...and then a force of 1000# at a distance of 4 inches would be a torque of 4000...isint 4000 greater that 2000? engifineer...tell me where the mistake is in my logic...cuz something doesnt make sense...

hmmmmm, i have a question...if torque = force x distance...wouldnt the further away the force is from the radius mean more torque...so larger wheels would mean more torque? for instance...lets say a force of 1000# at a distance of 2 inches would be a torque of 2000...and then a force of 1000# at a distance of 4 inches would be a torque of 4000...isint 4000 greater that 2000? engifineer...tell me where the mistake is in my logic...cuz something doesnt make sense...

The Force is the force applied from the wheel to the ground, the torque is applied at the center of the wheel, or the axle, so the formula T = Fd, reworked to solve for the actual force transmitted to the ground is F = T/d. So if d (the radius of the wheel in our example) grows, then the actual force applied to the ground or dyno (or F) reduces. I am almost 99% sure that the dyno results spoken of here are not calculated to account for wheel diameter. So as far as the force actually applied to the ground (the force that is moving the car) is concerned, the larger wheel = less effective force for a given engine torque and wheel weight.

Ok... if I messed up any of that.. bear with me.. I have had a couple of beers this evening :P

i guess not that good of a search, look on the scion website...duh



ummmm, except that www.scion.com posts hp at the crank, not *whp* like the title of this guys post says. duh.

hahaha oops........ like i really give a ____ though......

boo..i hav an auto..oh well..any idea on how to get rid of some throttle lag besides grounding kit and torque damper?

boo..i hav an auto..oh well..any idea on how to get rid of some throttle lag besides grounding kit and torque damper?

Neither one of those will remove throttle lag. Throttle lag is a result of the drive by wire setup; there is a delay between input of pedal actuator, and output from ecu to TB. Neither a grounding kit (supplying more ground wires to the chasis/frame), nor a torque damper (prevents engine from "torque twisting") can help electronic programming delays.

boo..i hav an auto..oh well..any idea on how to get rid of some throttle lag besides grounding kit and torque damper?

Neither one of those will remove throttle lag. Throttle lag is a result of the drive by wire setup; there is a delay between input of pedal actuator, and output from ecu to TB. Neither a grounding kit (supplying more ground wires to the chasis/frame), nor a torque damper (prevents engine from "torque twisting") can help electronic programming delays.

Can you elaborate a little more on that please? What is a drive by wire setup? TB? Ground Wires? "torque twisting"?

Thanks in advance.

Greg

Neither one of those will remove throttle lag. Throttle lag is a result of the drive by wire setup; there is a delay between input of pedal actuator, and output from ecu to TB. Neither a grounding kit (supplying more ground wires to the chasis/frame), nor a torque damper (prevents engine from "torque twisting") can help electronic programming delays.

Can you elaborate a little more on that please? What is a drive by wire setup? TB? Ground Wires? "torque twisting"?

Thanks in advance.

Greg

Older cars used to have an actual cable connected the gas pedal to the throttle valve of the engine. A throttle valve opens or closes, to allow either more or less air to be mixed with fuel. So techincally, all these years, we've been misnaming the right most pedal...it's really the "air pedal". :P Some newer cars have removed this in favor of "Drive by wire" which is basically an electronic setup. The throttle response is computer controlled, not physically controlled like the older cars. The idea here is supposed to be a more econimical setup, as far as gas mileage goes.

The throttle body (sometimes referred to as TB) houses the thottle valve. All it does is controll the amount of air the flows from the intake manifold, into the engine, where the air is mixed with the fuel.

Ground wires. That should be self explanatory....they are wires that ground the electrical system on your car. There's a lot of debate on them, in regards to adding horsepower (by means of creating a stronger spark at the spark plugs, I suppose) as well increasing current for electrical systems. You'll have to form your own opinions in regards to what ways ground wires can help.

"Torque Twisting"....I'm not sure that's really an actual term, it's really something I made up. The idea here is this: if your car is in neutral (or neutral/park for an auto), and you open the hood with the engine running, and you gun the engine, you'll see the engine "flex", or "twist". What's happening is the engine is producing centrifugal force (circular motion), and the amount of force (torque) is enough to cause the motor mounts to give a little. While this isn't a huge deal, if you are racing, tenths of a second is not only an eternity, often it is enough to determine the winner, and the first person to lose. So the engine damper acts as an extra brace to keep an engine from flexing (torque twisting) as much, which keeps *both* drive wheels firmly planted, which equals better traction. Without the damper, if you stomp the "air pedal", you can more easily feel one of the wheels struggling for traction as one side of the engine is flexing.

Hope this helps.

i always try to explain by telling people to go look at their lawn mower's throttle LOL