I, along with many others found the stock ride pretty harsh. People who ride in the back really complained. I changed out the springs to Tein S-Techs which looked and handled better, but I felt this change did not improve the ride (at least IMO). Since the front of the car seemed to ride better and spring rate is similar to stock for the Teins, I left the front struts alone. Since the Tein rear springs are stiffer than stock, I changed out the rear shocks only to Koni's. Finally, the ride is improved!! These shocks have a lot less dampening on compression and more dampening on rebound. This allows the rear wheels to move (like suspension!), but in a controlled manner. Much smoother and more comfortable.

I would recommend the changeout of the stock rear shocks to the Koni's for anybody, whether lowered or not. I should have done it immediately out the dealer showroom. The rear shock is plain and simply harsh and is a big contributor to the poor ride.

Thanks for the imput! and Were did you find your rear shocks and how much ?
Thanks Russ

screw the people in the back! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Yeah, what model of Koni did you get?

screw the people in the back! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Yeah, that's what I thought. But, you would be surprised that the people in front also benefit from this rear shock replacement.

The shocks are the model for the Echo (80-2827sport). They have just recently been confirmed from Koni as the proper model for the XA and XB. I got them at LTBmotorsports for $196 for the pair including shipping.

i thought this was for tc lol my bad no one comaplaines in my car i have trd. but then again they would be walking if they complained so00

Big shout outs for LTBmotorsports. I got my rims from them and it looks like I will be getting koni's as well.

I have been getting the same complaints from my passengers and it sounds like you did all the leg work for figuring out the best fix.

What did it cost to get the Koni's mounted up and where did you have it done?

Big ups,

N Y C X B O X

What did it cost to get the Koni's mounted up and where did you have it done?

Cost nothing. This is the easiest, do-it-yourself upgrade done so far. Easier than the intake or the rear sway. About 20 minutes and no jack required, just tools.

i think its time to get some shocks.

2 questions:

the prices on LTB motorsports website, is that for each one or for a pair?

are they shorter shocks for lowered cars or are they the same length as the stock ones?

shorter shocks for lowered cars, never heard of that before

i was always under the impression that if you got shocks intended for lowered cars they had a shortened throw since they dont have to extend as far.

also, don't the shocks have travel limiters in them to keep the springs from popping out if the suspension is unloaded? (for the rear anyway, i know the front isnt an issue)

yes there are shorter shocks for lowering springs

nice find tho
wonder how it would work with goldlines?

thanks dj i knew i wasnt crazy haha

softer suspension will decrease handling...i guess you win some and you lose some. I would like to go stiffer if I could. I wish money grew on trees and I had the only one.

Shorter shocks are beneficial if the shocks are sensitive to position due to the valving of the shock or if bump stops are removed. Koni's are not position sensitive, so shorter shocks do not offer any benefit here. Shorter shocks make sense if you put in a shorter spring that was so short that it fell out when fully extended. That is the primary reason why lowering spring are progressive (such that they do not fall out with stock shocks.) A short spring may also bottom the shock, especially if stock bump stops are removed.

With regard to Koni's being soft and reduces the handling capability, this is not correct. From my seat of the pants, the Koni's have significantly lower compression dampening. This is a good thing to improve the ride. This allows to wheel to move upward with little resistance (soaks up the bumps). The stock KYB's are very poor in this regard with way too much compression dampening. This means when you hit a bump, the shock pushes back at the car (and people) which make for the punishing ride.

The rebound dampening of the Koni shock is adjustable, so you can "dial up" the rebound stiffness you desire. Rebound dampening will control how much "bounce" there is after the "bump". Even at the softest setting with stiffer than stock springs, the Koni's rebound dampening is very good. Even if you "dial up" more rebound dampening (stiffer in rebound), the low compression dampening will remain so the shock will still "soak up the bumps".

All in all, this is a sweet shock. You can really feel the quality.

I also think the front Tokico strut is O.K. and does not need replacement unless you want to spend the additional $330 for the Koni struts. Maybe later.

The rear KYB shock, however, is an awful shock as I have found out. I don't think I would ever buy KYB after this. Of course this is OEM KYB (the cheapest stuff out there).

so what makes the stock shocks blow out from running 2" or lower springs?

so what makes the stock shocks blow out from running 2" or lower springs?

When you change out the springs, they are typically stiffer. To keep the stiffer spring from moving up and down, the shock has to also have more dampening(in rebound) to keep the strong spring in control. There is a relationship between the spring rate and dampening rate that should be maintained for proper ride control. If the stock shock is not properly dampened, the suspension moves more than it should and this additional movement reduces the life of the shock. Most of the time, the shock is not really "blown", it's mismatched to the spring so the suspenion bounces a lot. A shock is "blown" when is no longer providing any dampening.

I think the stock shocks provide a reasonable amount of dampening as they do not bounce around a whole lot, but the biggest difference between a Koni and the stock rear shock is how it dampens. Koni has less dampening on compression, and more on rebound. This soaks up the bumps much better. The stock shock has probably the same dampening rate in either direction which punishes the occupants when a bump is hit. This is a budget design.

The only thing I would watch out for with the Koni is if you had a low rear spring rate with 2" lowered springs. The Koni shock allows more suspension movement due to the lower compression dampening, so you could bottom out if the spring was not sufficiently strong. My only experience is with the Teins which have a pretty healthy rear spring rate and are only lowered ~1.5".

hmm this makes me want to actually get the koni's lol... but you sure your tein springs aren't playing some part?

you sure your tein springs aren't playing some part?

Pretty sure.........been running Tein S-techs for well over a year now. Right now I have the Koni shocks on full soft which feels sort of like a Mercedes sedan (suspension works to soak up bumps). I'm going to dial up the stiffness this weekend which should make the ride more sporty. There is a good test/review of Koni shocks in Tirerack. Check it out.

If you hate the ride, this is the simplest, most effective upgrade.

jomo,

Excellent posts. You've made it a little easier to understand dampening rate and spring rate. For me to be clear, is dampening rate and spring rate essentially the opposite of each other?

Hope to hear much more from you.

Much appreciation.

is dampening rate and spring rate essentially the opposite of each other?


Nope.....now how to describe this........Dampening rate is a measure of resistance to velocity. The faster the shock moves, the more the shock resists the movement. A spring by itself has virtually zero dampening. This is why you can tell a car with a truely blown shock never stops bouncing (no resistance to velocity/movement).

A shock has no spring rate and has dampening. I guess you can sort of say this is the opposite......:P

Understood. Thanks again!

screw the people in the back! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Yeah, that's what I thought. But, you would be surprised that the people in front also benefit from this rear shock replacement.

The shocks are the model for the Echo (80-2827sport). They have just recently been confirmed from Koni as the proper model for the XA and XB. I got them at LTBmotorsports for $196 for the pair including shipping.

I was the one that tested the fitment on my xB, and I had one of my members do it for the tC as well.

The Koni shocks should be out by now for the Scion tC.

since we're on the topic of springs, what do you think about the TRD springs and shocks?

Jomo, you are pretty good at explaining things.
I was going to pop into this thread and talk about how cool
Koni are and why, but you nailed most everything already.

Echo 00 - 05
8710-1403 Sport ext. $166 (front - McPherson Strut Complete Housing - externally adjustable - rebuildable)
80-2827 Sport std. $100 (rear - std. adjustable - rebuildable)

http://www.livermoreperformance.com/koni_2.html

remember that these cars have short wheelbases. this can make for a "bouncy" ride. Interesting to here a Koni sjock n the back "fixes" the bounciness. Or you can all go out and buy Cadillac Fleetwoods. THat would fix you bouncy cars, right?

I'm not sure "bouncy" is the right description. More like "punishing". The stock shock certainly dampens. What I have felt with the Koni is that the compressiion dampening is a lot less than the stock shock which allows the suspension to compress. I know this because I rub slightly on the rear fender lip on bumps with the Koni's (20mm rear offset). I only rubbed on bumps with people in the rear with the stock shocks. This suspension movement reduces the pounding on the occupants (especially the rear). Now if the shock was also "soft" in rebound, it really would ride like a Fleetwood. But the rebound dampening is stiffer than the compression dampening (and adjustable). This makes a controlled ride. I would not expect miracles from the rear suspension as the design is low budget, but for those looking less harshness, this is the best thing I have found.

Glad I found this thread... I'll be acting on what I'm learning here.


historical perspective: When some of the earliest shoch absorbers came out (around 1910, one class of them operated on the equal- friction principle.

The other class was more sophisticated: the friction was applied only on the -rebound-

that is, no damping on the upbound, but only on the rebound


The reasoning was true then and today: It is the rebound that tosses the vehicle and punishes the riders.

Making stiff spring rates helps a car corner flatter. Shocks/dampers don't affect cornering hardly at all. That's the springs' duty.

The rebound bosses, the rebound is what tosses!

kudos to them here who knew this and said so already.

do you guys who are experiencing this back seat punishment go offroading in your xBs or something? I dont understand how the ride could be that harsh on a stock suspension set up. I cant really talk much since I dont own one yet, but are you all being a little sarcastic when you describe the ride to the rear passengers? I just dont see how the ride could be that bad unless you are rolling on 18s with some really low-pro tires on there and you have lowering springs.

No we are not exaggerating. I put my grandma back there and she lost 3 teeth. :silly:

Seriously though, when you go over speedbumps, the xB doesn't absorb it at all. It kinda hops. Or if you are on a sectional pavement freeway, you feel all cracks and the car does it's hoppity hop act. My NSX with it's stiff sport suspension rides nicer. I honestly could not stand it. It was almost embarassing and I felt bad for my passengers. My car was just two weeks old and completely stock when I decided to order the Konis as my very first mod. Some people can live with it but I could not.

The stock KYBs are so stiff I'm going to send a couple of them to Kansai airport to see if they want to use it to hold up the buildings. I'd turn one of them into a pogo stick but I'm afraid it'd bounce too high.

No we are not exaggerating. I put my grandma back there and she lost 3 teeth. :silly:

Seriously though, when you go over speedbumps, the xB doesn't absorb it at all. It kinda hops. Or if you are on a sectional pavement freeway, you feel all cracks and the car does it's hoppity hop act. My NSX with it's stiff sport suspension rides nicer. I honestly could not stand it. It was almost embarassing and I felt bad for my passengers. My car was just two weeks old and completely stock when I decided to order the Konis as my very first mod. Some people can live with it but I could not.

The stock KYBs are so stiff I'm going to send a couple of them to Kansai airport to see if they want to use it to hold up the buildings. I'd turn one of them into a pogo stick but I'm afraid it'd bounce too high.

Responding to the bold: The stock xB in my opinion handles speed bumps -exceptionally well-. I compare the bumps at a certain bank's ATM drive-up... they TOSS bam WHam the old Chrysler LHS. The xb in contrast walks over them at any speed. No WhUmp.

Since I put on the F1's (much lower profile 15" on steelies) my car BAMS on speed bumps. Ray's car is still stock.... It reminds me how sweet the stock ride is... for such a small, light car that handles quite decent from the showroom floor.

my opinions... and A/B comparisons here are possible any time...

reid

the ride will definitely get worse as your tires go lower in profile. that is why i am sticking to 16"-ers with 45-50 series tires.

I have Hotchkis Springs. Do you think it's good if I only get Konis for the rear?

Great post. A softer ride would be real nice.

What did it cost to get the Koni's mounted up and where did you have it done?

Cost nothing. This is the easiest, do-it-yourself upgrade done so far. Easier than the intake or the rear sway. About 20 minutes and no jack required, just tools.

Thanks for the great information!!! I'm definately going to look at Koni's for my next upgrade but I have to call you on one thing. How can you say that no jack is required if you already have the Tein S-techs installed? I can just get my arm under my car. There's no way I could switch out shocks without a jack or a pit.

What did it cost to get the Koni's mounted up and where did you have it done?

Cost nothing. This is the easiest, do-it-yourself upgrade done so far. Easier than the intake or the rear sway. About 20 minutes and no jack required, just tools.

Thanks for the great information!!! I'm definately going to look at Koni's for my next upgrade but I have to call you on one thing. How can you say that no jack is required if you already have the Tein S-techs installed? I can just get my arm under my car. There's no way I could switch out shocks without a jack or a pit.

Well, I did it without a jack. I do have 215/45/17's which are a little bigger than stock. I also have 20mm spacers in the rear. Both of these help a bit. Actually, this is how Koni says to install them. You pretty much install the shocks "blind", so you don't need much room. You can jack the car up an inch or so if you want or need more room. This is all you will likely need if you are really low.

Echo 00 - 05
8710-1403 Sport ext. $166 (front - McPherson Strut Complete Housing - externally adjustable - rebuildable)
80-2827 Sport std. $100 (rear - std. adjustable - rebuildable)

http://www.livermoreperformance.com/koni_2.html


hey jomo,

are these the same shocks that you got?

Echo 00 - 05
8710-1403 Sport ext. $166 (front - McPherson Strut Complete Housing - externally adjustable - rebuildable)
80-2827 Sport std. $100 (rear - std. adjustable - rebuildable)

http://www.livermoreperformance.com/koni_2.html

Please tell me these prices are for a pair. If so, I have no excuse and will order tonight.

No, that is the price EACH, unfortunately!

Walt

weaksauce

My Dad said riding in the back was like riding on a "buckboard". My Mom said he was kidding, but it let me know that it is a pretty stiff ride. For those of you that don't know what a "buckboard" is, just watch a cowboy movie and it is like the horse drawn flatbed cart. Best discription I can come up with. Looking forward to softening my ride with these shocks sometime down the road.

Any1 has Hotchkis with rear koni shocks on? does it help the ride quality?

Any1 has Hotchkis with rear koni shocks on? does it help the ride quality?


I would think so, but the Hotchkis springs are pretty stiff in the front and rear so you would likely benefit from better dampening all around. If you are bouncy, the better rear shock couldn't hurt and you should have a less harsh ride. However, the rear shock would not correct front end bounce.

Any1 has Hotchkis with rear koni shocks on? does it help the ride quality?

I have the Hotchkiss Stage 1 setup and I just put the Koni's at all 4 corners. It has indeed smoothed out the ride. I started out at middle setting and it is noticably less bouncy. I do get a bit of a thud when I hit bumps hard. I am going to dial them out as soft as they get tonight for a Disneyland trip and I will let you know how it goes.

Any1 has Hotchkis with rear koni shocks on? does it help the ride quality?

I have the Hotchkiss Stage 1 setup and I just put the Koni's at all 4 corners. It has indeed smoothed out the ride. I started out at middle setting and it is noticably less bouncy. I do get a bit of a thud when I hit bumps hard. I am going to dial them out as soft as they get tonight for a Disneyland trip and I will let you know how it goes.

I went as soft as possible on the front and rear konis. After a 8 hour 430 mile trek, I am pretty pleased. Except for a couple jolts, the ride was smooth. I had the car loaded with family and gear in the roof rack as well. I did 75 over the grapevine in 4th, but could not keep it in 5th and maintain 65. Supercharger next?

One thing to keep in mind when setting up the Koni's. They were specifically designed for the Echo which has about 80% the spring rate of the stock XB. At full soft, they will be pretty plush with the XB as well as allowing more suspension compression. Loading four people into a lowered XB with Koni's at full soft.....I can imagine you probably bottomed a few times :doh:

One thing to keep in mind when setting up the Koni's. They were specifically designed for the Echo which has about 80% the spring rate of the stock XB. At full soft, they will be pretty plush with the XB as well as allowing more suspension compression. Loading four people into a lowered XB with Koni's at full soft.....I can imagine you probably bottomed a few times :doh:

2 of the people are a 4 and 2 yr old. Do you think I should stiffen it up to avoid bottoming out?

2 of the people are a 4 and 2 yr old. Do you think I should stiffen it up to avoid bottoming out?

With the Hotchkis springs, I would stiffen the shocks up a bit just to control the rebound better. Especially if you load the car with people and stuff. With regard to bottoming out, I don't think stiffening the rebound dampening (this is the adjustable part) will have much of any effect on the compression dampening. Compression dampening resists bottoming. Possible bottoming out with lowering springs is the price you pay with the low compression dampening of the Koni's. I haven't had a problem with bottoming out because I'm not a big people hauler, but like I've said in past e-mails, I could imagine you could bottom a lot with a lowered XB and Koni's hauling people or a lot of weight. You need to be a little tender when you load your Koni setup with a lot of weight as your suspension will move more than it used to.

I have my shocks at 1/4 stiff, and they are still very comfortable. Your 1/2 stiff setup sounded about right for Hotchkis springs. I could totally see sport seekers setting these shocks at full stiff. I wasn't looking for that kind of a ride though....

Well....you really sold me on the Konis....one question please - would rear Konis AND front Konis be even BETTER than just fronts? Or not really that significant?

I have Tein H springs and they made a dramatic difference immediately in improving the ride - I want soft, smooth comfortable - not firm "handling" with 2mm clearance from the road......

So....I researched tires and found that the Goodyear Assurance Comfortred seem to have the best rating and reviews for RIDE quality - smooth quiet and comfortable....I am keeping 15" wheels with 195-65-15 tires for a slightly taller sidewall for more cushioning than stock 185-60-15 (and some speedo error) and regaining some lost height with the Tein H's (hate that drop!)...

And...do you have any tire specific suggestions? SIZE and MODEL/MAKE?

Thanks alot!! I am willing to do anything to mprove the stock ride...I love my xB, but the ride is too stiff and jarring - I aint pushing the car hard through the corners or road rallying, etc...I want comfort for the long rides on the freeway. Period. I want to do EVERYTHING I can do to improve the ride.....any ideas would be greatly appreciated.....Bradford

What I don't understand in your comments is why you bought lowering springs if you "hate the drop". You could have used XA, BB or Echo springs which would have gave you near stock ride height and be softer. Anyhow, I still think the slight lowering looks nice just to reduce the wheel gap. To each his own......

I would go with the rear shocks only and see if that is good enough. They are easy to install yourself where the front struts would take a lot more effort. The rear shock only should compliment your Teins nicely (stiffer spring in rear, not lowered a lot).

With regard to your tires, I would not use a 195/65/15 because you could introduce other problems such as rubbing (when turning the wheel). This tire is pretty big compared to stock (1.3" larger). If you have to changeout the stock tires now, I would look at a 195/60/15 or a 185/65/15 in the tire you like. Otherwise, wearout the stock tires.

2 of the people are a 4 and 2 yr old. Do you think I should stiffen it up to avoid bottoming out?

With the Hotchkis springs, I would stiffen the shocks up a bit just to control the rebound better. Especially if you load the car with people and stuff. With regard to bottoming out, I don't think stiffening the rebound dampening (this is the adjustable part) will have much of any effect on the compression dampening. Compression dampening resists bottoming. Possible bottoming out with lowering springs is the price you pay with the low compression dampening of the Koni's. I haven't had a problem with bottoming out because I'm not a big people hauler, but like I've said in past e-mails, I could imagine you could bottom a lot with a lowered XB and Koni's hauling people or a lot of weight. You need to be a little tender when you load your Koni setup with a lot of weight as your suspension will move more than it used to.

I have my shocks at 1/4 stiff, and they are still very comfortable. Your 1/2 stiff setup sounded about right for Hotchkis springs. I could totally see sport seekers setting these shocks at full stiff. I wasn't looking for that kind of a ride though....

Thanks Jomo. 99% of the time it is just me running around in the box. Just bought a house soit replaced my 04 Corvette Z06. I actually think it is more fun than the vette, but it would be cool to have more power. I will probably go more stiff when I get back from the vacation. I have a Murano as the designated family hauler already.

Wiredmeyer....

I just last month took my TCM to canada then back down to LA. I have tein s-techs, 18's and was somewhat pleased with just that setup. Im looking in to maybe getting the koni setup also. Did you take the hwy152 to the hwy 5? if so how did it handle through the mountain?

i also did too take a trip down to socal with my TCM. i was just wondering how was the gas mileage for you. I made my stop at kettleman and was at 30 mpg. how was yourz?
Also had no problem in 4th going up grapevine. but yeah 5th was umm not doing much. i think its the tranny gearing.

have fun on your vacation

Wiredmeyer....

I just last month took my TCM to canada then back down to LA. I have tein s-techs, 18's and was somewhat pleased with just that setup. Im looking in to maybe getting the koni setup also. Did you take the hwy152 to the hwy 5? if so how did it handle through the mountain?

i also did too take a trip down to socal with my TCM. i was just wondering how was the gas mileage for you. I made my stop at kettleman and was at 30 mpg. how was yourz?
Also had no problem in 4th going up grapevine. but yeah 5th was umm not doing much. i think its the tranny gearing.

have fun on your vacation

cee_dub

We went out 580 over the altamont pass to 5. Coming down the grapevine was a blast. We may take 1 back for the drive. The mileage seems to be under 30 forme, but just hit 1100 mile mark and I have a luggage basket on the roof. Gassed up about Kettleman as well. All in all I am happy with the koni setup.

finally decided on 205-60-15 which have taller sidewall and give an 1" lift to the car and are wider without rubbing (I hope!!)....Goodyear Assuerance Comfortred model.....we'll see....with Koni's (turned to the softest setting) all around.....and tein H's already installed...I am doing everything I can to smooth out the rise - and. yes, I do believe it will still handle like a go-cart after all this...but more comfortable on long trips.....

with tanabe df210's and 15" 195/50(i think) tires, would koni's all around be good to run? I regularly go over speedbumps to/from school and a lot of the roads in my area are uneven and many bumps. I want a smooth ride but i don't want to bottom out either. I do know that i can't get too much of a smooth nice ride with a 2" drop, but i'm just wondering if these shocks would be better than stock, or worth 500$~ for that matter. thx

Does anyone know where I can purchase the Koni 80-2827SPORT shocks? Everywhere I called is out of stock.

To anyone within "ear-shot"....

The Koni rears make a WORLD of difference!!!!

More control, less punishing ride.

Thanx to "komo" & "salcow" for the info.

Even though the benefits may be minimal, I still plan to replace the front struts with Koni Yellows by the end of the year. This will probably be about a $500-$600 investment (parts and labor) total.

monroe sensatrac shocks and struts from pickproparts.com (monroe-shocks.com):
Shocks #5987, $28.80 each
Struts #71575, $52.78 each
Total: $163.16 (free shipping) - $28.80 MIR (buy 3 get 1 free) promotion = $134.36

Springs: Used xA springs $40
Spring Rate (lbs/in)
Item Front Rear
Stock
Scion xB 148 160
Scion xA 134 134

Results: So far, a MUCH smoother ride than stock. We have a really bumpy road in front of our house, where there are a ton of sloppy pothole patch jobs. My wife dreaded it every time I drove over those, as our butts would bounce all over the place and it would horribly agitate her back. After some initial testing with the new suspension, the "jarring" rough ride down the road has disappeared. There is a lot less bouncing, and when it does, it is soft.
Unfortunately, I didn't have much time this weekend to do full testing or a shock only test.
For those of us that have a light pocketbook and no intention of autocrossing, I suggest looking into the Monroe Sensa-tracs. I think that it is unreasonable to pay all that extra money for an adjustable setup that I will never adjust. For the price of a pair of Koni shocks, I was able to replace my entire suspension. I do not sacrifice as much handling wise, as the Sensa-tracs automatically stiffen up if I drive them out of the "comfort zone." Even if I end up not liking them, I have the 90 day satisfaction guarantee from Monroe. They even have a lifetime warranty against wear, like the Konis. I would imagine dropping $60 just for the shocks would be easily justifiable.

I would recommend the Monroes to anyone that isn't crazy about carving corners at high speeds. "Sensatracs are designed to be used when a soft / medium valving and not handling is a primary concern. Perfect for average daily use" according to ShockWarehouse.com. If you want to pay an arm and a leg for adjustability, go for the Konis.

*Goes to order the Monroes.

I'm going to order the shocks only, will update when I get them on.

just to note, money-back guarantee (http://www.monroe.com/products/mp_warranty_default.asp) and the rebate promotion (http://www.monroe.com/promo/promotions.asp) only apply when you buy all 4.

thanks for the write up, sounds like a good option ^_^. are the rear shocks shorter than the stock ones? if so these might be good for people with airride (hopefully me soon)

ill try and see if i can measure the tube length without taking it out..

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=51455&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
some folks there used monroe shocks for their airride. the part number is slightly different though.. im gonna hafta look into that..

thanks for the post man! so the monroe shocks ARE the NAPA shocks. I thought that NAPA made the shocks, turns out that they carry the Monroe shocks. You say the ones u bought are a different part number? #5870 ?

These are the cars that the 5870 is rated for:
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductGuide.aspx?mfrcode=MON&mfrpartnumber=5870&mfrname=Monroe

the 5987 is specifically for the Echo
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductGuide.aspx?mfrcode=MON&mfrpartnumber=5987&mfrname=Monroe

theres a pdf listing the specs on the shocks, but 5987 is not on there:
http://www.monroe.com/pdf/ShockAbsorberDimensionCharts.pdf

edit: i suspect that the 5987s are an updated version with this "safe-tech" system
http://www.euroauto-bgd.com/safe-teche.htm

thanks for the info

Anyone have any adverse effects from lowering springs and soft shocks? I would anticipate bottoming out or hitting on a hard bump. I am a little worried. While the roads around here suck real bad, I would rather be jolted around than lose some ground effects...

Hi guys, interesting thread you have going on here. I'm in the market of getting my whole suspension replaced. I own a 04 Xb with all stock suspension. I was doing some research and I ran across a set of Koni adjustables. I'm settled with getting these, but not sure on springs. I would just like to get all koni springs, struts and shocks all around. I'm not really concern on the feel of the drive, but more on the stance, cornering, and the convenience to adjust the height when needed. I'm riding on 18"s and would like to get a 2" drop all around. Then when the crappy weather comes around adjust the height. Would this set up be ok or at least better then the stock set up? When they say adjustables do they mean I can adjust the height from 2" to 3" (as an example)? How do you adjust these? From underneath the car?

Sorry I'm a noob to this :lalala: :P :doh:

i've heard that the trd springs are stiff- what do you Expect ( Toyota RACING - for racing- technology- If you use the trd shocks and struts with some gold lines I heard the ride is pretty soft. The trd shocks and struts were made for lowering so this is not a bad middle ground if you don't want to go with the 600 buck konis.

The trd shocks and struts can be found on scion people parts for 300 shipped. Not too bad....hook those up with some gold lines or something similar and your ride will ride a lot better on 18's or 17's... exspecially if you go with a 17 with a 45 series tire-[/b]

Hi guys, interesting thread you have going on here. I'm in the market of getting my whole suspension replaced. I own a 04 Xb with all stock suspension. I was doing some research and I ran across a set of Koni adjustables. I'm settled with getting these, but not sure on springs. I would just like to get all koni springs, struts and shocks all around. I'm not really concern on the feel of the drive, but more on the stance, cornering, and the convenience to adjust the height when needed. I'm riding on 18"s and would like to get a 2" drop all around. Then when the crappy weather comes around adjust the height. Would this set up be ok or at least better then the stock set up? When they say adjustables do they mean I can adjust the height from 2" to 3" (as an example)? How do you adjust these? From underneath the car?

Sorry I'm a noob to this :lalala: :P :doh:

i have not heard of koni springs. and the konis are not "height" adjustable, only rebound adjustable. sounds to me like you want something along the lines of tein ss-p coilovers.

Thanks for the reply, Bgnome. Man if that's the case then I was way off :doh:

Thanks to everyone else.

I'll have to look more into this.

Attention everyone: After waiting for two weeks after my shocks had "shipped" from shockwarehouse.com, I gave them a call. Their story was as follows: The shocks were shipped directly from Monroe's warehouse in CA. They got damaged in transit (I won't go into how much UPS sucks) and were returned by UPS. They sat at Monroe and no one knew what they were until I called. Then they say they will ship out a set immediately. I say I want them overnighted so I can put them on before this weekend. Five minutes later, they are out of stock and will be until December, no shocks for me. Somehow I don't believe their story, but that doesn't matter, I'm getting my money back.

Needless to say, I will not be using shockwarehouse.com again, but the problem really resides with Monroe.

So I called some local shops. The fifth one I tried (Carquest) will have a set of Gabriels ready for me by 7:00 am tomorrow. The price... a little more at $49.99 apiece. I'll have them on tomorrow and will report on the ride. I got the rears only.

I just found this technical link comparing Monroe shocks to Bilsteins and Konis on a VW. It graphically shows why the Koni's are so comfy yet controlled (and how they can be set at "race stiff" in rebound if need be). Assuming the graphs would be similar for the Scion shocks, the Monroes should be more comfortable than the stock rear KYB, but not as comfortable or controlled as the Koni.

http://forums.thecarlounge.net/zerothread?id=2011200

jomo... the only problem is there's no indication that the monroes tested were the sensa-tracs (unless I missed something while skimming the article). He mentions they are VW oem shocks... Are the VW oem shocks sensatracs?

jomo... the only problem is there's no indication that the monroes tested were the sensa-tracs (unless I missed something while skimming the article). He mentions they are VW oem shocks... Are the VW oem shocks sensatracs?

Yeah, I noticed that as well.

I have heard that Sensatracs are used in a number of OEM applications (from Ford to VW), but, I doubt you will find any confirmation of this, just hear say.

I guess what I was trying to get at is that Monroe (Sensatrac or other Monroe) is a reasonably priced, good performing shock that is a worthy OEM replacement. Especially when price is right and the Scion KYB's are so darn harsh.

Konis are at a different level of sophistication. These are among the best shocks available to the consumer. Put them on a Mercedes, BMW, Lexus......and they improve the ride and/or handling. That's why they command the $$$.

I've been meaning to perform this upgrade for awhile and am just now able to dig up the link and post my review.

I ordered the rear KONI Sport adjustable dampers and installed them on my xA over the holiday weekend. I installed Hotchkis lowering springs and wheel/tire package over the summer and was eager to remove some of the harshness from the ride. While I love the lowered look and more planted driving feel of the springs, the lack of spring travel tightned up the chassis. Less than twenty minutes to install. I set the dampers on 1/2 turn from full soft. They rock! All of the nervousness from the shortned wheelbase has been eliminated and most of the jarring is now gone. I just wanted to reinforce what has been said from others. This is a great upgrade and now my ride is excellent (not that it was too bad before but now is much more smooth). The STB, rear sway, wheel/tire package, lowering springs and now the KONI dampers make this car perfect.

One other thought...I removed the stock shock and pushed on the strut. It depressed with very little effort. The stock shock seems to be a weak product with little damping capability.

I highly recommend this upgrade, especially for those that drive on less than perfect roads or complain about bumps, expansion joints of vehicle nervousness. It should also help for those that have increased wheel/tire size and are complaining about a harsh ride.

Is the handling ability increased as well?

Today, just installed the Monroe sensatrac shocks #5987 for the 2000-2002 Echo. (same length as stock) from NAPA. A noticeable improvement. Now the front and rear seem matched, rather than the back being stiffer than the front. Cost $32 each, but definitely worth it. My corner carving days are over, and just wanted a little easier ride.

monroe sensatrac shocks and struts... Results: So far, a MUCH smoother ride than stock....

I want to get softer shocks, in the rear at least.
Do the SensaTrac shocks or struts have steel or rubber dust covers? I recently had SensaTrac shocks installed on my Mazda truck, and the rear shocks had rubber bellows dust covers or boots, held on by plastic ties. One boot had been damaged in the box, and the shop could not get another boot alone, so they took the boot off the display shock in their office! I would prefer a shock with a metal dust cover.

They have a steel cover on the exposed shaft part of the shock. I had to go look to make sure.

Correction: When I wrote the above reply, I went to the xB and looked, and they do have a cover. But if they do come without a cover, then I must have taken the cover off of the stock xB's and put them on the new shocks. The xB's that are now in the Sensatrac box does not have a cover, but the sensatracs now on the xB are covered. I do know that I did not purchase additional covers. So I switched the covers out. Sorry for the initial misinformation.

Have decided on SensaTracs, since I just want soft shocks to allow full spring travel, with no desire to adjust them harder. Called my local reputable alignment specialty shop for an estimate. They want $275 for the 4 SensaTracs, plus $140 for installation, plus $40 to $100 for alignment. The high figure assumes the holes in the struts will not be precisely in the right place.
I called NAPA, and the same four SensaTracs were $175, and from the SL thread at http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20769, I can easily install them. Then I could decide on an alignment.

The suspension on our cars are unbelievably easy to work with just hand tools and a cheap spring compressor. Those prices are absolutely rediculous when you consider that it's only 150 for the shock/struts, and only 2 hours for a no brainer install.

Fyi, the bolt holes for the sensatracs line up perfectly. A small adjustment will need to be done on the brake line to line it up just right, other then that it works fine~

-M-flo

The suspension on our cars are unbelievably easy to work with just hand tools and a cheap spring compressor....

How neccessary is the spring compressor? The instructions here do not use one:
http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20769

It seems the strut can be removed with the spring compressed in it. Then the spring is under such little compression that it needs no compressor tool to free it from the strut or reinstall it in the strut. For reinstallation, a helper is shown to hold the spring compressed at allow the top nut to be put on the strut, but it looks like something I could do alone with two hands and a knee.

Those instructions suggest if you can loosen the strut nut. Most of the time, the nut doesn't loosen and you wind up just turning the shock around. I've changed about 7 xA suspensions, not one of them I was able to get the strut nut off without using a spring compressor.

It's not a bad idea to have it as a back up, besides it's relatively cheap (20 bucks at autozone?) and is a good tool if you adjust your suspension alot.

I have done one spring install... on an xB.

No spring compressor was required, just two guys.

heck you can raint the spring compressor for fre for Autozone

heck you can raint the spring compressor for fre for Autozone

And you can buy one almost free:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3980

...I called NAPA, and the same four SensaTracs were $175...

And, with Monroe's 90th Anniversary promotion (valid unti April 30), there is a $50 rebate on 2 struts + 2 shocks. Net cost for softer suspension = $125.

Just a clarification - if you got this from my initial posting on the "rebate" thread - it looks like you get a $50 certificate to be used withing 90 days for additional Monroe shocks & struts. So it's not a rebate but similar, I guess, to a gift card for a future purchase.

Here's the link to more information:

http://www.monroe.com/promo/documents/spring_06/Monroe90WEB.pdf

Just a clarification... it looks like you get a $50 certificate to be used withing 90 days for additional Monroe shocks & struts. So it's not a rebate...

I just bought a set of 4 SensaTracs from NAPA but am not pleased and will take them back. The struts have rubber covers, the shocks have no covers, and there is no cash rebate.

1. The promotion page does just say you get a "Comeback Certificate", even though you have to click on a "Rebate Pad" to bring up the application form:
http://www.monroe.com/promo/promotions.asp

2. I got my SensaTracs from NAPA. The box says NAPA not Monroe, but they are made by Tenneco who makes Monroe, and it's a Tenneco promotion.

3. NAPA had quoted me $175 for the set on the phone, but the set came to $225 in the store. They said the Comeback Certificate must have been included in the quote.

4. The box for the struts shows the upper cover is a rubber bellows. I hate those. The box for the shocks at least shows the upper cover is metal. Thinking of the $50 rebate, I went ahead and bought the set.

5. When I opened a shock box at home, there is no upper cover at all. The piston rod is bared to sand and salt.

6. I called NAPA to ask what a $50 Comeback Certificate would be good for. NAPA said the certificates are in-store credits that can be used for anything in the store.

So... the struts have rubber covers and the shocks have none, there is no cash rebate, and I can't think of $50 worth of NAPA auto supplies that I want.

They have a steel cover on the exposed shaft part of the shock. I had to go look to make sure.

Correction: When I wrote the above reply, I went to the xB and looked, and they do have a cover. But if they do come without a cover, as vintage42 says, then I must have taken the cover off of the stock xB's and put them on the new shocks. The xB's that are now in the Sensatrac box does not have a cover, but the sensatracs now on the xB are covered. I do know that I did not purchase additional covers. So I switched the covers out. Sorry for the initial misinformation.

... if they do come without a cover, as vintage42 says, then I must have taken the cover off of the stock xB's and put them on the new shocks....

Not having my xB yet, and not having the shocks out to look at, I would not have known that the KYBs had covers that should be removed and put onto SensaTracs.

Now that I re-read the SL DIY on Konis, it does say to take the *plastic* cover off the KYBs and put it onto the KONIS. Plastic, not steel.

When I returned my SensaTracs to NAPA, they said they thought rubber boot kits were available, but were not sure. They *should" have suggested that the car came with some kind of shock covers that were transferred from shock to shock.

It is illogical that any shock or strut be made without any cover for the piston - the seal would not last very long.

I'm doing my rears this weekend, good to know.

I took delivery of my xB yesterday - it only had 1 mile on it. I think I will go back to NAPA and get just the rear SensaTracs that I returned, leaving the fronts alone for now.

Boxer & vintage.....Let us know what you think of the change.

Boxer & vintage.....Let us know what you think of the change.

I put on the Echo #5987 rear SensaTrac shocks today, at 150 miles. It really is fast and easy, using 14mm and 17 mm wrenches (open, box and socket). Just park the car, crawl under and do it.

I stood both shocks upright, held onto the pistons, and pushed them closed as hard as I could. The KYB has a lot of resistance, and the SensaTrac has much less. So the SensaTrac lets the xB's rear springs compress much easier on bumps.

After installation, bumps seemed to pass under the rear of the car with less notice. But after a little while, the remembrance neccessary for comparison faded, and the SensaTracs just felt normal. So far I have not had time to carry any passengers.

I don't know why such a hard KYB shock was specified by Scion, but the SensaTrac seems to be a better shock for the US market.

SensaTracs are made for the US company Tenneco, who markets them under the brand names of Monroe, NAPA, Sears, Midas, etc. My SensaTracs were sold under the NAPA brand. The shock boxes said "Made in USA", but the shocks were stamped "Made in Belgium". The box for the front struts, which I did not buy, says "Made in Spain".

Well, I have em in, and I can echo the seniments above and by others. The ride feels much more buttoned down, kinda like a typically well-dampened VW or Bimmer kind of composure. Much of the dips and bumps on the way home were just a blip, not fazing the car with unruly ride motions as they previously did. I imagine Koni's are even better, but you gotta give it up to the SensaTracs for the price. Maybe the best mod I've done so far.

So if someone wanted a smooth everyday ride - hauling people will happen

I planned on putting in xA shocks and either the sensatrac or Koni struts.. I want to get a good spring but the ones that provide more give also appear to lower the car. I've got a max on 2in (if I can even squeeze that) due to my driveway.

Great to know info guys. I will get me a rear set today and get them mounted. It just doesn't seem like it could be this easy to loose that harsh ride. Thanks again!!!

Now it's time to get me some new front struts. I'm torn between the Monroes or the Konis. Konis are more than double the cost and I don't really need the adjustability for daily duty.
What are the best deals going on either set of front xB struts?

So far the best deal on the Monroes is about 168 shipped to me for a pair of 72245's from Coolparts.com
Konis are running around 179 each. I'm liking the Monroes better by the minute.

My next mod...

Do it, it's a huge difference.

is there a dyi how to change struts/shocks on here or anywhere ?

is there a dyi how to change struts/shocks on here or anywhere ?
http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20769
http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=76186

Never got around to doing this mod, I have been thinking about doing it because my daily commute is incredibly harsh. Was just curious whats the best deal that seems to be out there for a rear pair of shocks that will smoothen the ride? Anyone ever get around to replacing the fronts and seeing a further difference?

I still have Koni struts in my room but I've never installed anything like this and I need the weather to cooperate.

Get those koni's on Zman. The diff is night and day.

Get those koni's on Zman. The diff is night and day.I am severely lacking a garage.

Did you adjust yours to be softer?

Is it necessary to get new struts mounts or boots or whatever they are called? Basically any rubber thing on my car is pretty worn out.

Koni's FTW

the monroe shocks will give your car a nice smoother ride aswell.

Did you adjust yours to be softer?

Is it necessary to get new struts mounts or boots or whatever they are called? Basically any rubber thing on my car is pretty worn out.

I played with the stiffness of the shocks quite a bit to get the best possible driving experience I could out of them. I found that if I run the front completely stiff and the rear medium, I get the best cornering control while on 15s (Falken Zeix 912s). When I run on my 18s I change the front back to full soft and the rear is set to soft as well (Just swapped the hankooks over to Nito NeoGen, haven't put them on this year yet). Keep in mind the other suspension mods I have done. With the front shocks, I sliced the bump stops in half as instructed in the DIY. I'd love to find some custom poly bumpstops, but I doubt that would happen any time soon.