I know many of you feel the stock brakes are just fine for this car, but believe me, once you drive a car with a bigger and better set up, you will more than appreciate it. Besides all the gains in the aesthetic department, the increase in stopping power and reduction of unsprung weight is well worth the price of admission alone.

As some of you already have seen my xB, its already adorned with 18" wheels and a 6 piston 13" brake set up. After spending some time at D1 on Saturday and speaking with my buddies over at Mackin, I have decided to downsize both the wheels and the brakes and put a lightweight and more performance oriented set up in.

Basically, what I am asking here is if there would be any interest in the system I designing for my own car. Its going to consist of a huge forged 4 piston caliper mated to a 12.2" 2 piece rotor. The rotor is still considerably larger than the OEM rotor. The caliper is also much larger and 4 piston but because its forged, weighs practically nothing. The total package will drop about 8-10 pounds from each side!!! This set up will fit under a 16" wheel!!!!

If I can get about 4 or 5 people in on this, I can get the entire package which includes calipers, rotors, hats, brackets steel braided lines, pads and all the hardware for about $900. I can also offer the rotors in any pattern as well. As always, with all my stuff, the rotors are plated too to resist corrosion. As well as the hats and the brackets.

Here is a link to what the kit will look exactly like. Same style rotors and exactly the same calipers. Yes, they are that big.

Let me know what you guys think as well as any concerns or information you need.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288962011

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid82/p7a5dcc420271a7a08bb4df9cfdd17f32/faed3dce.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid82/pf62c859f23dd0a8482797769c0d3b852/faed3817.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid82/p22d327f8bad17cba5c6689b962857b85/faed3dc4.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid82/p1686ee7a204acc1bd185e198d5970dab/faea3ab0.jpg

I'd be interested in some 11-11.75" brakes to fit under some 15" wheels
I don't really want to go 16" wheels on my xB because I want to keep the rim weight low (8-12lbs per wheel)

Any chance of offering a kit like that?


Jason

to me the brake works fine....i meant its not a fast car....
lets when u hit traffic, even u can brake in a short distance, but people behind you CANT... :roll:

dont flame me...its just what i thought...

some guy rear-ended my eclipse two years ago, cost $9500 damage to fix it... :twisted:

Nice stuff, and extra-nice that they'll fit within 16s...but now for the $1 Million Question: Where's the uprated master cylinder to handle the additional pistons, surface area, hydraulic requirements of these larger, higher-performance parts,, etcetera?
All components/aspects of brake systems being so intertwined, the stock master cylinder will obviously be made inadequate in the face of such hi-spec companion pieces (or in the best case scenario, certainly not capable of delivering performance on par with the calipers posted here).
Also might wanna consider an adjustable bias to further compensate for differences in system and allow for track-style fine-tuning of such a track-based mod...

All of that said, I think if you hook up a nice master cylinder that'll work with the rest of the parts you described, you could definitely move some units.

to me the brake works fine....i meant its not a fast car....
lets when u hit traffic, even u can brake in a short distance, but people behind you CANT... :roll:

dont flame me...its just what i thought...

some guy rear-ended my eclipse two years ago, cost $9500 damage to fix it... :twisted:


The scion is actually a pretty quick car. I plan to prove that as well. One of the reasons i am going this route is to start autocrossing the car. I already have an s2000 that i road race so i thought this would something to do with the box.

Regardless of what you think or how you feel about being rear ended, I would still like to be the one who decides how short of a distance I can stop in. I can tell you that in the wet weather or in emergency situations, there is no comparison

But hey, to each their own. For me, brakes and suspension are something that get done on every car i own :)

Nice stuff, and extra-nice that they'll fit within 16s...but now for the $1 Million Question: Where's the uprated master cylinder to handle the additional pistons, surface area, hydraulic requirements of these larger, higher-performance parts,, etcetera?
All components/aspects of brake systems being so intertwined, the stock master cylinder will obviously be made inadequate in the face of such hi-spec companion pieces (or in the best case scenario, certainly not capable of delivering performance on par with the calipers posted here).
Also might wanna consider an adjustable bias to further compensate for differences in system and allow for track-style fine-tuning of such a track-based mod...

All of that said, I think if you hook up a nice master cylinder that'll work with the rest of the parts you described, you could definitely move some units.


Slow down :)

Everything is accounted for. You dont need to upgrade the master or add any type of additional proportioning tool to the system. I have already done the math. Im currently running a 6 piston caliper from Wilwood with a 13" rotor...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid96/pf9ed434e77f4ae5dfc0b8093dc929daa/fa1fcab8.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid96/p8003ee43a914d06c63df20f513c43992/fa1fcaaf.jpg


I know what the stock system is capable of pushing out. This isnt the first kit I have out together. I know a lil about brakes ;)

900 for 4 or 5 people but how much for 1 person if it was in the next few months?

thanks!

I believe you that you've done a few brake kits - your connections (Mackin, Wilwood) are impeccable...

But I too have some familiarity with brake systems and you can't really be suspicious of my master cylinder Q's & concerns...the stock Scion system's understandably small and the system you're selling is, well, not. I was just inquiring as to the sitch with the master cylinder. I'm curious/interested...can you please PM me the "math" or any other research/release info you've got on this set-up? Thanks!

I believe you that you've done a few brake kits - your connections (Mackin, Wilwood) are impeccable...

But I too have some familiarity with brake systems and you can't really be suspicious of my master cylinder Q's & concerns...the stock Scion system's understandably small and the system you're selling is, well, not. I was just inquiring as to the sitch with the master cylinder. I'm curious/interested...can you please PM me the "math" or any other research/release info you've got on this set-up? Thanks!

You are right. I cant blame you for being suspicious. Believe it or not, the stock master is not as small as you think. As well, the piston diameters in the calipers that I use are not that large either ;)

Shoot me a phone call at the shop when you are free and I ll gladly fill you in on all the info and specs you need. If you want, give me your email address and I ll show you some of my other work.

Sherwin
Brake Zone
818 781 7777

i would love to see more people join in and if they did push down the price, thatd be awesome ,id liek soem hardcore brakes, but the lower the price th ebetter ya know?!

maybe i missed something :oops:

what brand parts are we talking about???
rotors, calipers, pads, brackets

Big break setups are great.... When theres a purpose. I would see spending the money If I had some huge rims, or too much power, or had 2g's burnin a whole in my pocket. I just can't justify it for myself, but for those of you that do it, and do it right-- Much Props.

Are you planning to also make a 5 lug conversion?

a larger braking system would help if the car had more power, but as of right now its not nessacery. it would be a waste of money right now until or when your car has at least 50% more power.if you ad the turbo it wouldnt be a bad idea but how many peolple actually have it on there car?

Yeah, I have a set of nice 15 inch wheels and now that I can see the brakes they do look small. Do you know if your kit will work on 15's? I'd love a little more power in the brakes but, I also think the direction you are headed in might be overkill for the general populace. Any chance of just a bigger/lighter set-up for a daily driver, I would think that might be pretty popular...just a thought.

Al.Truistic
aB

I'd be interested in some 11-11.75" brakes to fit under some 15" wheels
I don't really want to go 16" wheels on my xB because I want to keep the rim weight low (8-12lbs per wheel)

Any chance of offering a kit like that?


Jason

is it just the front brakes or all of them...switching the drums would look nice...and the wilwoods i know you cant use the ebrake anymore. but im down for an upgrade....its hard to stop with 19's on but if it is a smaller rotor its time for some lightweight volk TE-37s 17 inch

Really, does the addition of a bigger brake kit keep the emergency brake from working and how so? Does this mod void the warranty?

Al.Truistic
aB

...and the wilwoods i know you cant use the ebrake anymore.

Just adding larger wheels hurts your braking performance drastically. The extra rotational mass is a killer. Take a look at those stupid H2s on 24s. They cant stop worth a crap. Talk about a safety hazard. So its not only about the power your pushing. You can never be too safe.

We are going to be doing a street version rear kit also meaning that it will retain e brake function. The kit available right now from wilwood, which actually isnt available anymore, loses e brake capability.

Doc,

will you be able to make a kit in 5 lug pattern?

Stopping power good!

Street version excellent! I'm down for that! Is there any reason you didn't mention a front brake kit for the street flava?

Al.Truistic
aB

Just adding larger wheels hurts your braking performance drastically. The extra rotational mass is a killer. Take a look at those stupid H2s on 24s. They cant stop worth a crap. Talk about a safety hazard. So its not only about the power your pushing. You can never be too safe.

We are going to be doing a street version rear kit also meaning that it will retain e brake function. The kit available right now from wilwood, which actually isnt available anymore, loses e brake capability.

Making the kit iinto a 5 lug pattern is not a problem. It will most likely be a special order item, but it shouldnt really cost any more.

The whole point of this thread was for a front kit. Wilwood already has a 13" kit for the 17" and larger wheel sizes. Their kit costs upwards of $1200. What I was trying to do was to generate interest for a slightly smaller diameter rotor package, 12.2". This will bring down the cost and weight of the system and also allow it to be used with 16" diameter wheels.

Making the kit iinto a 5 lug pattern is not a problem. It will most likely be a special order item, but it shouldnt really cost any more.

The whole point of this thread was for a front kit. Wilwood already has a 13" kit for the 17" and larger wheel sizes. Their kit costs upwards of $1200. What I was trying to do was to generate interest for a slightly smaller diameter rotor package, 12.2". This will bring down the cost and weight of the system and also allow it to be used with 16" diameter wheels.

So, a street version rear kit and a 16 inch front kit...will there be a kit to fit 15 inch wheels or is that silly since it is too close to factory :? ?

I think if there is a front and rear set up would be great,
since wilwood has there sale soon, if same quality and lower cost that will help

I have 18” Axis, five spook rims on my xB and every time I look at them I see these small brakes behind them. How much are we talking about for a full four wheel disc brake conversion kit? Will have to buy special pads directly from you or can I go to an auto parts place and get pads?

FWIW, Doc's very well known on the s2ki.com message boards for all his brake parts. His bbk's are grade A quality. If I didn't have to spend money on other items, I'd buy his 6-piston bbk for my car right now.

Doc, I sent you a pm a couple weeks ago & still haven't gotten a response. :?:

understand that a 'bbk' w/ huge big 13" rotors, to most people, visually equate to stopping power... but... everyone should know there are many elementary ways to drastically reduce braking distance.

obviously docof understands brakes is a system involving much more than just rotor size and piston numbers. but most new car enthusiasts often fail to comprehend the simple fact that tires are the final limiting factor. yes, the 4 lil patches between you and the road. with 13" rotors to dissipate heat, increased friction index/surface of the larger, more aggressive pads and a huge amount of increased clampin force from the extra pots, the xB will outbrake the dinky 185mm tires. even worse, seems a lotta people are only concerned w/ the fronts right now because 1) wilwoods have no rears w/ e-brakes, 2) many can't afford $2G. matching huge rotors w/ rear drum brakes? can we say brake oversteer? spinning, flippin shoeboxes?

as autocrossers on the cheap have always known (and been limited to): buy SS brake lines to improve feel, utilize more aggressive pads (not too much available right now, but i'm sure the pads are coming; project mu, porterfield can custom trace your pads, axxis ultimates, hawk HPS, etc), get softer tires, reduce rolling weight by ditching the 18" 25lb rims, stick to rims significantly under the 1lb/inch of diameter ratio ala konig heliums, ssr comps, te/se37s, cp035s, rp-f1's, etc.

w/ lil $ and even less power, it's really all about the pads and tires. these cars weigh 2400 lbs, you don't NEED the bling of 13" rotors and the 6pot AP/Wilwood/Brembos calipers. screw the gains in the 'asthetics' department. go wax your car instead.

Well let me be the voice of completely oppsite intentions.

I'll have 20's on in about a month. They will be light, for 20's... BUt I would like to upgrade my brakes with out spending a g-$pot. Just to compensate for the rolling Dia.

So I suppose i may be intersted in the kit this post is refering to, or possibly somthing more cost effective.

-TR

stronger brakes are always better - although many like to argue that stock is good enough.... sure, it is... but so is everything else on your damned boxes and you can't seem to leave well enough alone on the other areas of the vehicle.

I'd like a better set of brakes for ALL FOUR corners... a little bigger would be great as far as aesthetics go, BUT(!!!) the can't be so big that you are required to run 16" or bigger! Big is great until you have a flat in the middle of nowhere on your big custom rims and can't even reinstall a stock rim/tire or the mini-spare tire to get you to the next stop. A 4 wheel disc (or 2 wheel BBK) install needs to be able to fit inside stock rims - whether you use them or not.

Also - mandatory (for me) that you can still use the e-brake.

make THAT - and I'll buy. I've got $ - you got parts?

I'd be interested. Would the cost go down if there were more than 5 takers?