I know most of us here are scion fanatics (including myself)... we think xb are pretty darn cool in most ways... but nothings perfect, and ther is always room for inprovement.

So, what do yall think the scion's biggest flaw is?

--> Horsepower/ Torque (powertrain)
--> Dimentions
--> Availablity
--> More options.... cruise, sunroof?
--> Value of accessories
--> design (aerodynamics)
--> interior design... controls, seats
--> true pricing
--> lack of finacial incentives... rebates, low apr
--> any other specs

As for me... the horse power is nothing spectacular but with a couple typical additons (CIA, headers, exhaust) it is tolerable... but more importantly it feels narrow inside when my friend and I hop in... seems like shoulder room is a bit lacking but no enough to warrant me cancelling my RS1 order. Just venting a bit... wanted to know if i was the only one.

IMO ... the fact it aint here yet. :evil:

Horsepower :twisted: :twisted:

Well I have the sunrofof option available through my dealer, and I'm not getting this for speed (but 150hp would have been better) the price is awsome, but I could always use more money in my pocket, so I'll say bring on the rebates!

horsepower and window rock chip

HP, arm rest and cruise control

Volume adjust buttons should be a knob, the seats should be tilted back a bit, the texture of the interior plastic should be changed,

ARM REST :lol:

i own an xa, and i'd say its flaw is that it doesn't come with keyless entry like almost all of the toyota cars.

First would be the damned 4roof, they need to make it so that water doesn't poor into the car everytime you open the door when it's raining (IE - everyday here in FL).

Second would be the cheap-___ dash material. I've already gotten a scratch on the plastic glovebox. :evil:

Third - THEY NEED BLACK WHEEL WELLS!!! If you look at the car from the side, the friggen wheel wells are the same color as your paint!!!! For my next DIY writeup (which will be tomorrow), I'm going to paint the wheel wells.

no sunroof option and no boost!! i would of paid another grand each for those two options!! :evil:

Not complaining, digging the Box over what I would have bought if the xB was not available (Toyota Echo) for the same price range.

1. More torque (hhhmmm the 1ZZ-FE would be nice)
2. High Speed= High Revving engine. 70MPH @3KRPM :shock: , my former '01 Camry: 70MPH@~1600RPM (i think) :shock:
3. That rumble. Too loud for such a slow car. Then again, I play my tunes a tad over the decibel of the muffler.
4. Wider tires... tune the speedo from the factory to take 205/65/15 stock.
5. Move the driver seat 3-4" back.
6. Full flat folding with hooks rear seat, like the matrix.

ARMREST
no vanity mirror
hp i knew about that getting into it
lack of accesories
overpricing on accesories for scion

:) Flaw?

Only one comes to mind....

(my pet issue)

Too much leg room in the back seat (at the expense of cargo room behind the seat). I only wish the rear bench was on sliders so I could alternate between lots of passenger space and lots of luggage.

Everyone gripes about power, but more power = bigger tranny + bigger clutch + bigger halfshafts + bigger gas tank which equals more weight, which then requires bigger brakes and a stronger, heavier unibody which requires more power which etc, etc, etc, etc..........

Catch my drift? :twisted:

Look at it this way: The xB has about the same power/weight ratio as the much-respected 2nd gen VW GTI.

arm rest.

and a real cargo cover.

more driver seat adjustability..

I like the MPG, so hp isn't really a factor

I agree on the width of it, my girl and I are almost as cramped as we are in our Eclipse convert.

The car has no flaws, it just attracts flaws.

Beware of scratches

rear seats suck ___..... its so vertical it hurts every passenger i ever have in my car.
everyone complains.
just 1 degree adjustment would mend this error.

and window chips..

and all the rattling all over..

no sunroof option and no boost!! i would of paid another grand each for those two options!! :evil:

what u mean no sunroof....my xb has a sunroof.....

My only real complaints so far are on the tranny, mainly Shifter and clutch and final gear ratio. Too spongy and the shifts are not solid. Then @ 70 mph it's like your ready to shift into 5th, but suprise, you're already IN 5th.

More low end torque.

An automatic washing and polishing machine should come std with the cherry. My wife washes that thing everyday. With the money she's spending on washing it, I'm losing the money we save in mpg!

ooooo true.. the gears are short as hell. u can't really drive faster than 65mph while keeping the rpms low

Guys: The xb will BARELY take a stroller! TURNED ON END not even laid flat on the floor!

That is the entire cargo area.

Had more room in the trunk of a 94 saturn.

In other word I couldn't get the OVERPRICED ACCESSORIES like the bazooka tube or cargo cover or cargo net. None of them fit.

THe rear seat might as well tilt back too, you sure can't carry groceries in the back!

The elbow room though tight was acceptable, but less than in my Talon or my wife's saturn.

I want an accessory armrest too.

THe rear seat might as well tilt back too, you sure can't carry groceries in the back!

.

Hmmmm...thats strange....I get tons of groceries in the back. Its actually a plus that it isn't too wide. It keeps the stuff from rolling around and I am able to stack the lighter bags on top pf the heavy ones.

Sean

i own an xa, and i'd say its flaw is that it doesn't come with keyless entry like almost all of the toyota cars.

Uhhmm... it doesn't "come" with keyless entry, but I know that it IS available. And actually, most toyotas DO have keyless entry. It may not come as a "standard option" but it's almost always available. People have to make money somehow. And what better and easier way than upgrades? They might be cheap to them (the dealer or port), but the average consumer will pay a good bit of money for things of convenience.

And also, some people are griping about the price and others are griping about the "quality" of the minor details (such as the plastic interior, etc...) Of course it's not the most luxurious interior, but you didn't buy this car for luxury did you? You bought it because it's affordable and damn if it's not a sweet lookin car. ;)

You can't have a "cheap" car *AND* top notch quality. They just don't go together. If they did, we'd all be driving Lexus! :D

Now that is all said and done, I do agree there are some flaws. Some that probably wouldn't have costed too much more to change. An armrest would definatley be nice! I don't own an xB, but I drive them around enuff at work... and just the small distance I drive around at work, I miss having an armrest. There are many other things, I think COULD be changed, but I'm sure most of those would result in a price change, so... no need in worrying about those, unless we want to spend more money. :)

just my tid bit of an opinion...

:) Flaw?
= bigger tranny + bigger clutch

I read somewhere that the xB has the Tranny from the manual celica, so giving it more Hp wouldn't be a problem. However the half-shafts still would.

Cargo Space
armrests
color choices
over priced accessories

armrest!
no cruise control!

armrest!
no cruise control!
you can add cruise contol at an additional (overpriced ) fee at the dealership. At least you can at mine. The only problem is that it gets in the way of the turn signal

Horsepower (but I'm ok with stock numbers and a couple mods), ARMREST argggh, and interior lighting. There should be some lights between the visors. But, if these had been a huge problem, I wouldn't have bought the car!

Mike R.
rolex87

The fact that my windshield leaked like a mo-fo! I think out of the almost 15,000 scions on the road, mine has been the only reported one with this problem, and they finally found where the water was coming in and fixed it, but for awhile it was a real issue.

Anyway now i'm all happy.

Armrest.

Back seat on sliders

those big ___ sun visors...ok not the problem. The problem is they got a 2x2 mirror in a 12x4ish visor. And the interior lighting is horrible. Only that one light in the middle is kinda dumb considering the amount of interior space

THe rear seat might as well tilt back too, you sure can't carry groceries in the back!

.

Hmmmm...thats strange....I get tons of groceries in the back. Its actually a plus that it isn't too wide. It keeps the stuff from rolling around and I am able to stack the lighter bags on top pf the heavy ones.

Sean

I have a stroller back there. that's all that will fit. At least with the Saturn I could get 2 rows of groceries in the other half of the trunk!

I know most of us here are scion fanatics (including myself)... we think xb are pretty darn cool in most ways... but nothings perfect, and ther is always room for inprovement.

So, what do yall think the scion's biggest flaw is?

--> Horsepower/ Torque (powertrain)- I can live with the power now I guess, but more cant hurt.
--> Dimentions- I love the interior room, but width wise it can feel a little cramped sometimes if you dont drive predominantly alone.
--> Availablity- This is whats ____in me off. I wish they did it different with the release but thats just cuz Im over on the east coast and the dealer Im going through gets a ____ alotment every month. Going to a Honda dealer and sayin I want a black auto lx coupe gets you a black auto lx coupe, I don't understand why with a scion this hasn't been the overall message I've seen.
--> More options.... cruise, sunroof?- Options are great, the aftermarket opened up quickly so no probs here.
--> Value of accessories- TRD is expensive, but the warranty explains that. You can find a good value on the accessories in 3rd party sales and other aftermarket suppliers so again no real prob here. I would like to see a factory in dash nav/dvd option though.
--> design (aerodynamics)- love the design- Wish they got a lil more creative with the interior but all in all its a great start.
--> interior design... controls, seats- For the price of the car the interior is the best I've seen. I would like more interior fabric or upholstery choices, but its a good start
--> true pricing- I dunno about the whole "no haggle" thing. I just dunno
--> lack of finacial incentives... rebates, low apr- This will change, the car is new and not too many dealer incentives yet, but they'll come eventually
--> any other specs- Transmission gearing... WE NEED 6 SPEEDS or different gearing- Maybe the low power contributes but I feel like cruisin rpm in this car is kinda high.


Those are my thoughts- hope someone gives 2 shiz

biggest flaw has just gotta be the windshield.

Otherwise the car is what it is and a fair bit more. Its been a source of enjoyment and a reliable practical machine. Sure some things would be nice. (armrest,cruise, turbo, better lower dash quality) but for the price and then some the car is hard to beat. Plus it has PERSONALITY. Sure its economy and its BOXY. but its a happy sorta car. Its more about whats right about cars in general.

armrest!
no cruise control!
you can add cruise contol at an additional (overpriced ) fee at the dealership. At least you can at mine. The only problem is that it gets in the way of the turn signal

actually, i had cruise control installed after i got mine....

as for the turn signal getting in the way, the one i have has an articulating arm you can bend several different directions...

i bent it a little further away from the turn signal and it does not hinder it at all now.....

really? a sunroof? do u have any pics of it?

How about featherweight doors? My Xbaby screams everytime a heavy-handed guest slams it.

Is anyone else driven crazy by the speedometer? I would never have imagined that having only the even speeds marked on the dial (ie 20, 40, 60, instead of 30, 50, 70 mph) would matter, but after a month I'm still not used to it, and somehow it's hard to get at a glance, the exact speed with just those tiny little hatch marks . Maybe because around here the speeds to watch are 30 mph in the towns ( where some zealous cops will have speed traps for over 32 mph) and 70 on the highway, which is the de facto "safe" limit whether it's posted 55 or 65. I guess I was just too used to 20 years of the old 'Yota pickup gauges.

Tell me I'm not nuts and just getting cranky in my old age.

I'm happier with the power than I expected to be, but that's with the 5-speed. It *would* be nice if it was a 6-speed...

Nothing big enough to make me not want it, but here's my list in no particular order

Rear wiper should be intermittent
Rear washer dribbles instead of spraying
Armrest/center console
sunroof(s)
6 way adjustable front seats, reclining rear
foldup rear seat or flatter folddown
Another foot of space behind rear seat
locking rear compartment
crackproof windshield

and most important:

F*CK OnStar, I want in-dash Scionlife.com access! :lol:

Is anyone else driven crazy by the speedometer? I would never have imagined that having only the even speeds marked on the dial (ie 20, 40, 60, instead of 30, 50, 70 mph) would matter, but after a month I'm still not used to it, and somehow it's hard to get at a glance, the exact speed with just those tiny little hatch marks . Maybe because around here the speeds to watch are 30 mph in the towns ( where some zealous cops will have speed traps for over 32 mph) and 70 on the highway, which is the de facto "safe" limit whether it's posted 55 or 65. I guess I was just too used to 20 years of the old 'Yota pickup gauges.

Tell me I'm not nuts and just getting cranky in my old age.

I'm happier with the power than I expected to be, but that's with the 5-speed. It *would* be nice if it was a 6-speed...

Your nuts, Quit being so cranky... :lol: JK

The only part that bugs me is the bright whiteness. Gonna do the Indiglo maneuver soon...

2 things that bother me about the xB...

one: Availablity

two: not as many features as the bB...like navigation, sunroof, AWD, etc.

Guys: The xb will BARELY take a stroller! TURNED ON END not even laid flat on the floor!

That is the entire cargo area.

Had more room in the trunk of a 94 saturn.

In other word I couldn't get the OVERPRICED ACCESSORIES like the bazooka tube or cargo cover or cargo net. None of them fit.

THe rear seat might as well tilt back too, you sure can't carry groceries in the back!


I want an accessory armrest too.

Dido! The cargo area needs to be 2-3 inches wider, if not more for a stroller to fit flat instead of on its side, and so there would be more space to put groceries. If the stroller could lay flat, the groceries could go on top.

Horsepower and lack of armrest. The cruise control doesn't really bother me much but my free swinging arm irritates me.

Sam

No arm rest, no cruise control, and a chip in the windshield here too. But I also think that the sun visors do not provide NEARLY enough coverage on the sides. Only about half of the window, and the sun is right next to me when I drive home in the afternoons. My visor is useless. Floor mats wear too easily. There isn't much cargo room, but I don't need it as much as say, a family with kids in the back seats. But for all my little gripes, I still wouldn't trade it for anything. It is one hot automobile. Besides, with the last car I had, I would say this is a 1000000% improvement, and you can't have everything for the price. Still a great value.

i forgot the sun visor! Thanks Love My Hotbox!

i have the same problem with my visor on the side window, but when i put up a thread on this long ago, no one else seemed to have that problem but me....nice to know i am not alone :mrgreen:

but i do not think that the windshield being hit by rocks or whatever is a flaw as some have mentioned....it happens to all cars.....

Is it just me or does the steering wheel feel really low in comparison for most cars... I'm not Yao Ming just 6 foot.

Oh and if yo wonna be really nit picky a lumbar would have been super sweet.... what would it cost toyota 75cents to include it in the vehicle stock and it would make folks greatly more satisfied... in opinion... I'm sorry got a bad back and lumbar would be _____in'.

A BIG BIG props to everyone for responding with your feedback and supporting this thread.

-will

armrest...cruise....more tilt on the steering wheel.....but for the price....who cares

sun roof, cruise and the biggest one NO TURBO AVAILABLE[/img]

To tell you the truth, i really don't have any complaints with my xB. I used to drive a 2000 Civic Si prior to purchasing the xB and knew what i was getting into. Obviously this car isn't as fast (in civic terms) as the Si but it's a sick lookin' ride. What really made me trade in my civic was its unique look, mileage and imagined it dropped on 18's or 19's, which further convinced me.

Guys: The xb will BARELY take a stroller! TURNED ON END not even laid flat on the floor!

That is the entire cargo area.

Had more room in the trunk of a 94 saturn.

Umm, did you take a wrong turn on the way to buying an Excursion? The xB is a tiny little car, shorter than an Echo. It's not made to haul large items. Get used to carrying your child!

In other word I couldn't get the OVERPRICED ACCESSORIES like the bazooka tube or cargo cover or cargo net. None of them fit.

They all fit, but nothing else does!

THe rear seat might as well tilt back too, you sure can't carry groceries in the back!

There's the little problem of avoiding the shock towers. The Element did it by making the seats really narrow. Not a good solution.

We seem to have no problem with putting a week's groceries for a family of four behind the seat. More than that, well, that's why the seats fold!

George

Armrests would be great, other than that I couldn't think of anything that wouldn't affect the price, or isn't already available...

And for the record I got a fist sized piece of wood flung at my car from a big ___ Silverado yesterday, and it chipped my windshield only, I was expecting at least a crack...

armrest!
no cruise control!
you can add cruise contol at an additional (overpriced ) fee at the dealership. At least you can at mine. The only problem is that it gets in the way of the turn signal

actually, i had cruise control installed after i got mine....

as for the turn signal getting in the way, the one i have has an articulating arm you can bend several different directions...

i bent it a little further away from the turn signal and it does not hinder it at all now.....

Here is your stalk, IIRC:

http://www.rostra.com/images/P1160896-rd.jpg

I don't like the "extra stalk" control, as I already have too many stalks on the steering column. I also don't trust the plastic to support the aftermarket stalk in the long run.

Here are a couple of alternatives. First a steering wheel mounted RF control:

http://www.audiovox.com/images/products_large/2501492y.jpg

Next is a panel mount switch that might go well in the switch holes just ahead of the shift lever:

http://www.miata.net/garage/AudioVoxCCS100_004.jpg

You could also use your own switches, as the Globalcruis manual gives the schematic for the switches.

AFAIK, the Audiovox cruise controls are the same as the Rostra Globalcruise units. Audiovox is a distrubutor for Rostra.

The Rostra site used to be very helpful, but I can't find the pictures of the control units that used to be there. You can still download the manuals, though.

George

Lots of people with armrest needs, not me. Nor do I think its too skinny, seems roomy. But cruise, yes how I miss thee. I will eventually upgrade when I can afford it.

The biggest problem: Body colored bumpers! Whose idea was this? Now every time someone makes the slightest mistake in parking my paint job has to suffer for it on a permanent basis. Simple fix= get it repainted. GENIOUS! I park my car like it has some kind of disease, far away from the civilized world. Mind you, this is not exclusively a Scion problem, but it needs attending to.

Yeah, I got a tree for the cruise in the Cherry xB.. If it turns out I get another, I'll def. get the paddle for the steering wheel. The tree is easy enough to use and isn't in the way (my model is slightly diff. than the one shown above).. but my contour has it on the steering wheel and it's just much easier to use.

Guys: The xb will BARELY take a stroller! TURNED ON END not even laid flat on the floor!

That is the entire cargo area.

Had more room in the trunk of a 94 saturn.

Umm, did you take a wrong turn on the way to buying an Excursion? The xB is a tiny little car, shorter than an Echo. It's not made to haul large items. Get used to carrying your child
George

Umm, No. Did you take the wrong turn on the way to buying an Element? Since when is a car stroller a "LARGE ITEM".

:lol:

This is a discussion of the vehicle's flaws.
I am willing to put up with what seems like the complete lack of cargo room (although it is merely 1/2 of the cargo room before the stereo install in comparison to the room after stereo install of every other car I ever owned, including my 74 mgb) and lack of power and AWD to save 10K versus a Turbo Forrester. At least for now.

The xB is not a tiny little car. The Smart car is tiny, the Suzuki aerio is tiny. The xB might qualify as subcompact, but it isn't Tiny.

It's been said before, and I'll say it again...armrest! Other than that, I love this car! :D

Just an armrest. If you wanted more room you should have bought a suburban. I didnt buy mine to haul stuff in :lol:

I don't like the damned rattle in the back seat. I am going to try and fix it myself. I don't want anybody else to touch my xB unless absolutely necessary.

I don't like how the rear bumper protrudes so much and there isn't a barrier for cargo. For instance i was carrying stepping stones in the back of my xB and when I arived at home I opened the trunk and one slid out and scratched the ____ out of my bumper.
I like the amber interior lights but think that the interior should come the same color.

I really like my xB overall. Those are minor complaints.

any solution for the arm-rest, anything we can buy?? (other than a new chair)..

Horsepower need to improve big time. They can change anything they want in the next one. As long as they don't touch the overall length and the interior space. My next car will be a xB as well. I was able to put a 60" tv stand in my xB over the weekend. Talk about spacious.

armrest
CRUISE CONTROL - i just drove 600 miles without it and my ___ hurt.
horsepower

Overall I'm very happy.

The people griping about horsepower I don't get.

Sure, an extra 10-15 hp would be nice, better yet, 10-15 more lbft of torque, but my xB at least never seems sluggish to me. Even with passengers on board. It's not super fast, but I've never owned a fast car before so I don't have unrealistic expectations if you get my drift.

It's important to be realistic here and realize how amazing it is that Toyota was able to streamline and cut cost of production so much on these cars without making many compromises. They didn't build any prototypes or test mules to work things out, instead they did everything through computer simulations. That saves millions in R&D. On top of that they used as much as possible from existing cars.

If you look at cars at this price, you will see that the Scion's are right around average as far as power/weight ratio and acceleration. There isn't much room for a larger engine and this is the engine designed for this platform, anything else would require modifications and add to the cost of production. You can't do that--- remember, to bring this thing in at $14k they have to watch every dime, or else start cheapening the interior and cutting corners in other places.

The Echo engine and drivetrain are what this platform designed for. It's not as if they can just drop a Corolla engine in it. Even if they could, it would be inappropriate for this type of car and make it more expensive defeating the purpose of these cars in the first place.

Honestly, if you are griping about horsepower/acceleration and have a real issue about it then IMO:

1) You got the automatic or you need to improve your shifting skills
2) You had unrealistic expectations for a car at this price level, it's not a sports car.
3) Your last car was much more powerful so this seems slow by comparison
4) You just straight up bought the WRONG car.

The most logical thing for Toyota to do here, and most likely IMO is to offer some type of aftermarket forced induction solution (turbo or supercharger) that is fully covered under warranty. It will cost little or nothing in R&D and be easy to deploy quickly, just send the parts to the dealers.

They might also make some small changes to the existing engine, that is more costly though. A small increase in stroke, for example, even to 1.6 liter would make a noticeable improvement in torque and driveability and it would only require a minor change to crankshaft and connecting rods AFAIK.

The people talking about the high RPM's on the highway and a 6 speed:

The issue is torque basically. The engine has to be at an RPM where it can produce enough torque to keep the car at that speed up/down a hill and have power in reserve if you need to pass someone.

Sure, you could lower the gear ratio or add a 6 speed to quiet the thing down, but you're going to struggle to overtake a truck on the highway at 70 mph and you will lose speed on a steady uphill stretch-- that's not an acceptable compromise.

Not to mention NO car at this price has a 6 speed, and that would make the car more expensive.

The roaring engine doesn't bother me too much because this engine seems to like to work without complaint. At least it doesn't sound like you're torturing it to death. Go drive a Hyundai or Kia with a small engine like this on the highway and your Scion will sound like a Ferrari to you by comparison.

I agree though, it would be cool to have a 6 speed OD, just so you could upshift when cruising. It would be quieter and you'd save fuel. You can always downshift if you need to anyway. There is still the issue of cost though and the fact that the average Joe isn't going to understand and will wonder WTF he can't pass on the highway at 70 mph.

Back to the original question.

The xB's biggest flaw... hmmm..

I have to agree that the lightweight rear doors are the only thing so far that I find even mildly annoying, but I see the problem as the schmucks riding in my car mostly. Still, it's a little embarassing to have to TELL people "please don't slam the m-f'ing door" every time I have someone get in the back. You would think that people would get a sense of the weight of the door and realize it's not a damn Volvo 240 so you don't need to yank it closed!

Any intelligent person should be able to figure that out. At worst, it should not take more than closing it too hard once to realize. People who keep slamming the f-ing door after I tell them NOT too risk walking home.

The light rear doors are understandable. The car needs to be light, that is a logical place to trim weight. I would like to think that they did not sacrifice safety in the process, I hope I'm right.

That's about it so far. I do get blown around a bit on the highway on a VERY windy day like today, but I wouldn't give up the boxy shape.

A real independent suspension in the rear instead of torsion beam would be very nice, but again it needs to be built on an existing platform so that is not feasible and I can accept that.

I think that I have seen very few cars (none at this price) that have as few compromises as the xB. That's why I bought one.

Nest,


Very well stated !

Sean

Guys: The xb will BARELY take a stroller! TURNED ON END not even laid flat on the floor!

That is the entire cargo area.

Had more room in the trunk of a 94 saturn.

Umm, did you take a wrong turn on the way to buying an Excursion? The xB is a tiny little car, shorter than an Echo. It's not made to haul large items. Get used to carrying your child!

In other word I couldn't get the OVERPRICED ACCESSORIES like the bazooka tube or cargo cover or cargo net. None of them fit.

They all fit, but nothing else does!

THe rear seat might as well tilt back too, you sure can't carry groceries in the back!

There's the little problem of avoiding the shock towers. The Element did it by making the seats really narrow. Not a good solution.

We seem to have no problem with putting a week's groceries for a family of four behind the seat. More than that, well, that's why the seats fold!

George

Good points George.

I would never buy a car that didn't suit my needs. TSiAWD....Did the dealer did let you look at the car before you bought it ?

Sean

I would have to say armrest and the option of a sunroof from my dealer.

any solution for the arm-rest, anything we can buy?? (other than a new chair)..

I have an idea on this and my dad is a metal worker, so I'm going to see if I can get him to make a prototype for me this weekend..

If'n I get any results I'll post them in a new thread.

1) windshield design. gets cracks more easily than my previous rides.
2) lack of a warrantied super/turbo charger kit.
3) armrest
4) lack of unique colors (except for the rs1.0)
5) motor size. high production volume = lower prices. period. I personally don't think it would have increased costs much (if at all) had they dropped in a 1zzfe. toyota makes alot more corollas than echos.



cruise control is due here in our region really, really soon from the port, so no complaint there.

1) windshield design. gets cracks more easily than my previous rides.
2) lack of a warrantied super/turbo charger kit.
3) armrest
4) lack of unique colors (except for the rs1.0)
5) motor size. high production volume = lower prices. period. I personally don't think it would have increased costs much (if at all) had they dropped in a 1zzfe. toyota makes alot more corollas than echos.



cruise control is due here in our region really, really soon from the port, so no complaint there.

The xB is built on the Echo platform using the Echo's drivetrain. There's no reason to expect the Corolla engine would fit, or work with the rest or make any sense from their perspective. The xB's performance is right on target with everything else in it's price class and it offers much better handling and standard options than the comptetiton. You can't have everything. A $16,000 xB would be off the target they are aiming for here.

There is good news though!

If you want a tight Scion wagon with a Corolla engine for around $16k you can go and buy one today. They EVEN make a 180 hp high performance version!

http://www.roadandtrack.com/images/rt_images/2002/february/2002_02_toyota_matrix_static_side.jpg


:wink:

The xB is built on the Echo platform using the Echo's drivetrain. There's no reason to expect the Corolla engine would fit, or work with the rest or make any sense from their perspective. The xB's performance is right on target with everything else in it's price class and it offers much better handling and standard options than the comptetiton. You can't have everything. A $16,000 xB would be off the target they are aiming for here.

There is good news though!

If you want a tight Scion wagon with a Corolla engine for around $16k you can go and buy one today. They EVEN make a 180 hp high performance version!

:wink:

I could drive it right next to the other 5 matrix I see every morning, and be the envy of my neighbor's matrix xr! (i'd get the flares :) ) ... nah, not boxy enough.

I'm just saying I woulda preferred had they built it around a corolla platform. I'm the target demographic supposedly, but I'd prefer a little more engine. Then again, the only thing about Scion that really, REALLY bugs me is that the accessories are randomly on backorder :x

I could drive it right next to the other 5 matrix I see every morning, and be the envy of my neighbor's matrix xr! (i'd get the flares :) ) ... nah, not boxy enough.

I'm just saying I woulda preferred had they built it around a corolla platform. I'm the target demographic supposedly, but I'd prefer a little more engine. Then again, the only thing about Scion that really, REALLY bugs me is that the accessories are randomly on backorder :x

Yeah, I hear ya. They never would have done that though because it wouldn't have met the price point they set for the xB and it would compete directly with their own product (Matrix). As it is, I can see people cross-shopping the two so it's in Toyota's best interest to keep them as seperate as possible.

As for seeing Matrixes everywhere... well I like my xB being rare too, but it won't last forever. Word is getting around and there will be more and more on the street before you know it, it won't be quite so rare anymore.

I'm sure the first 1000 people who bought a Matrix thought they were pimps too. ;)

Is it just me or does the steering wheel feel really low in comparison for most cars... I'm not Yao Ming just 6 foot.
-will

IT is adjustable, Have you tilted it all the way up?

hmm...where to begin?

1. the horrible ride!! this thing pitches and tosses so much. even lowering the air pressure didn't do anything in regards to the ride quality. my hats off to you guys tolerating the 18s and 19s!!

2. the constant buzzing of the engine!! any rpm and any speed. try listening to that drone for 6+ hours from LA to Sactown!! Arggg!!

3. and yes, I crack a windshield on the way down from Sactown too! Stronger windshield a must plz!! 10lbs more wont hurt performance.

4. the UPRIGHT sitting position - feels like a bus driver! forces my back to arch and ache. :lol:

yea.. I nag...cuz I'm old. maybe a sunroof option will help....hmmm.

Clicking during fill-ups. Other than that, my xB is perfect for me. :D

More HP means less mileage and with the small tanks, that just won't do. Just broke the $20 barrier during my last fill-up with the gas prices here in LA :)

More xBs lately on the road.... but can still elicit a smile from owners passing each other. :P

rear seats still sucking ___ over here..
rear seats still sucking ___ over here..
rear seats still sucking ___ over here..

hahhaah i hate the rear seats so much..
its like a theraputic chair.. like its gonna help u straighten ur posture

Good points George.

I would never buy a car that didn't suit my needs. TSiAWD....Did the dealer did let you look at the car before you bought it ?

Sean[/quote]

Yes of course. And this is assuming i get to buy it (rs1 5spd) because I am waiting on allocation still.
The thing is we have various needs. The ability to carry people in comfort and safety for an economical price is the paramount need, secondary is the need not to look like an old fogey, third is cargo room for day to day activities.

Eventually in a few years, I'll probably windup getting a turbo Forrester is the ever offer the moonroof 5sp and turbo all together w/o leather...

The xb is an excellent people mover, just on a long trip you need out of the floorboard cargo room for bags etc.

Clicking during fill-ups. Other than that, my xB is perfect for me. :D



When I was gasing up resturday it clicked, but all I did was pull back on the nozzle a little and voila!.....it filled up on the the high/ quick setting on the handle.

Sean

yup, two fill ups and I've learned to put the nozzle half way in and lean on it.. no problems. 32mpg mixed too.. I'm happy.

(course my contour gets 36 hywy and my nova got 42... so it's not like I feel like a hippy either)

If you look at cars at this price, you will see that the Scion's are right around average as far as power/weight ratio and acceleration. There isn't much room for a larger engine and this is the engine designed for this platform, anything else would require modifications and add to the cost of production. You can't do that--- remember, to bring this thing in at $14k they have to watch every dime, or else start cheapening the interior and cutting corners in other places.



I don't know about cheapening the interior. My '02 GTI puts the Scion interior plastics and esthetic quality to shame. Yes, the GTI is a more expensive car, but even the lowliest Golf GL that's $15.5K has the same interior minus leather seats. I love my xB, but I wish the quality of interior materials was better.

Oh yeah, the gas pump clicking is annoying.

Now if you really want to get petty, I can't reach the controls easily. I'm an average height girl (5'6") and if my husband screws with the mirrors, I have to lean forward to readjust, lean back and check, lean forward and readjust some more, etc. But I just don't let him drive much. :wink:

Anyone else had any problems hitting the sensor for left-turn lanes? There's a couple by me that I get stuck at and have to wait for a few light cycles before someone else pulls up and hits the sensors. Is my car too light? Or does Anaheim and Santa Ana just have bad sensors?

Just brake harder going into the turning lane. I used to have that problem with my 87 nova.

I think your box is hot too.

6th gear would be nice.

I would complain about other details, like wind noise and getting tossed around on windy days and windshields being crack-prone, but the shape is what drew me to the car in the first place- a wise person once said:
"You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both, and there you have:
the facts of life, the facts of life!"
One thing Toyota should look into is making its engine families similar. The Honda B-series was one of the reasons for the import revolution- easy motor swaps for better power to weight ratios. If Toyota made it easier to drop a Celica motor and 6 speed in an xB, you'd hear a lot less griping on this thread!

-Phil

6th gear would be nice.

I would complain about other details, like wind noise and getting tossed around on windy days and windshields being crack-prone, but the shape is what drew me to the car in the first place- a wise person once said:
"You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both, and there you have:
the facts of life, the facts of life!"
One thing Toyota should look into is making its engine families similar. The Honda B-series was one of the reasons for the import revolution- easy motor swaps for better power to weight ratios. If Toyota made it easier to drop a Celica motor and 6 speed in an xB, you'd hear a lot less griping on this thread!

-Phil

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/sounds/thefactsoflife-season2-6.mp3 :lol:

OK, all the _____ing must quit. We all purchased this car for two reasons:
1) we love the way it looks, and
2) the price is amazing

So...want all those extras and changes you are longing for? Then the car will start at 18K and change, not 13K and change. The bulk of the gripes here are silly, especially if you would like to keep the vehicle as affordable as it is.

There are some legitimate ergonomic issues for some people, some which should have been corrected by Toyota in development w/o any extra cost to the buyer, but for the most part, this is a highly satisfactory vehicle for the price.

I would have added the front dome/map light to the xB that is standard in the xA. If you drive a manual (like I do) an armrest would be VERY BAD. The very low gearing makes us all feel like we need a 6th gear when going 80 (yes, some of us commute and actually go 80, like in a 70 mph zone.) Cruising at 4000 rpm can be a little unnerving.

Cruise control, it's an option, I got one, in my manual, though it hasn't come in yet and will be installed when it does. Sunroof!? Get an aftermarket one if you want one so badly. The leak like Niagra falls half the time, so beware.

As for the "True Pricing", it is an introductory thing, just like it was in Saturn dealerships. By 2006, it will be gone, trust me.

As for the light chanmge sensors in the pavement in Anaheim. If they're like any other ones, the are not pressure sensitive, they're electromagnetic sensitive and detect the metal body and chassis of your car. Weight has nothing to do with it.

okay, first off, the scions are sweet.

every car you buy will have annoying little (or big) things about it, especially if the car is an economy car and priced well under 20k like the scion.

lets be realistic people. we didn't buy these cars to drag in. my 5sp is fine with me, and i owned a ford taurus SHO before this that moved much better than the scion. the fact is that the scion isn't a crappy car to drive, its rather fun actually.

whatever, call me an optimist, but since we have these cars, lets focus on what RULES about them... not every little thing thats off about them....

my 2cents

Can I get an "Amen!"?

8) Horsepower.I would like to have just a tad more high end power for passing and merging.Other than that I am basically happy.The price and comfort level are fairly high for an economy car(IMHO).

Can I get an "Amen!"?Amen brotha! :D

HP and Armrest :roll:, but it's okay i always :D smile and remember why i bought it in the first place when i am at the gas station.

1900 miles and 3 1/2 weeks into my RS1 and by far there are 3 things that are killing me....

1. As previously stated and once again.... 4kRPM @ 80MPH w/ the 5spd... WTF???
I can't imagine what my aftermarket exhaust will sound like on the freeway once i get it... I will have to yell at the passengers to communicate.

2. The EPA must be snorting a line to think my 5spd could ever accomplish 35mpg on the highway... even at 55MPH, driving it like a senior citizen I can only get 29MPG... thats less than the 31 to 40 range given on the sticker for highway. Total BS... I wouldnt be suprized if more folks start writing to toyota and the EPA about this ____.

3. Lighting... not a bit gripe but yeah... the interior needs more lighting.


Overall though I have been happy. Knowing what i know now about the gas mileage, I WOULD WITHOUT A DOUBT THINK TWICE about purchasing it, more than anything ultimately the RS1 sold it for me... without it... there is a good chance I would went with something else. It seems toyota brought the car over with letting 1 american drive it on the american street for at least a month and get his feedback. Most of the complaints people are saying are just BASIC common sense requests, not rocket science, I think thats what make the few flaws the XB has soooo very annoying.

Well my major gripe is the sun visor. What's the point of it when you have to use it for your driver's side window? All they had to do was make it so it can be extended. Anyone know of a fix for this or some aftermarket visor possibly? I really don't want to get one of those add on extenders.

My biggest gripe is the lack of a dealer-installed cruise control for the entire country! That will be rectified soon with a trip from NoVA down to NC to a SET dealership.

My biggest pet peeves so far are:

I wish it had a center armrest

No cruise control coming standard (nor as an option at the dealership where I got mine)

No Moonroof...I'm not paying 2,000 for an aftermarket installation...

No roofrack...Not that I'd use it all the time, but it would look really nice with my surfboard attached to it!!!

No standard alloys/rims on the Hot Lava...For it being a limited edition, I think the hubcaps should be outlawed...I got jipped...

That Is All

DAN

Love my xB.
However, my son has scratched the hell out of the gove box with his trumpet on the way to school in the morning.
The interior plastic on other vehicles does not seem to show wear like our Scions.

My current biggest flaw. I can't seem to drive it enough! :D

My gripes:

1. No cruise control.

2. No light in rear compartment.

3. Controls in dash/doors are not lighted at night.

4. RS1 did not receive an external badge.

5. No armrest.

6. Door lock pulls are not flush with door when locked.

7. Doors need to be unlocked before they can be opened.

Other than these minor things, I love my box and it is a pleasure to drive.
I plan to mod it to change most of these problems, but it would be nice if I didn't have to.

No roofrack...Not that I'd use it all the time, but it would look really nice with my surfboard attached to it!!!


they have roof racks. i think the companies name is yakama but there were offered as an option for me but you can just order them directly from the company

no crate motor for swap when people were looking at young generations trying to come out wit something that speaks to us and then they went a step above and made it fully costumizable not wheres my replacement motor or block or head or anything i can blot in to give me more power besides a super uper duper charger or a turbo i dont want to stress my motorf out just get a motor with more force

1: The interior does scratch a bit!
2: Armrest would be good but they offer aftermarket now!
3: Auto locking doors at 15 MPH and unlocking doors when you pull the handle.
4: 5 speed shifter seems weak!

Otherwise it is a fun car to drive!

haha i made the 100th post on this thread! :D

6th gear would be nice.

-Phil

Yeah! That's about the only thing in this list that I can't add myself. A 6 speed!

if you want more psace/HP/all wheel drive move up to a Subaru TS wagon @ 17k
better yet buy a used WRX and your set, fast and AWD.

sunroof and cruise can be had for about $1300 for both, aftermarket

this is a $14,400 car w/CD and A/C standard! c'mon people. kick those seats down and you can haul. htrow a rack on and you can haul more.

I came form a highly modded WRX (285HP @ the wheels), which had more space, was faster
and cost me about $150 more a month, about $650 more a year car ins and got about 22 MPG on a good day. not to mention the $4k in mods to get it to that point.

you can have it all, you just gotta drop for it!!

:D

if you want more psace/HP/all wheel drive move up to a Subaru TS wagon @ 17k
better yet buy a used WRX and your set, fast and AWD.

sunroof and cruise can be had for about $1300 for both, aftermarket

this is a $14,400 car w/CD and A/C standard! c'mon people. kick those seats down and you can haul. htrow a rack on and you can haul more.

I came form a highly modded WRX (285HP @ the wheels), which had more space, was faster
and cost me about $150 more a month, about $650 more a year car ins and got about 22 MPG on a good day. not to mention the $4k in mods to get it to that point.

you can have it all, you just gotta drop for it!!

:D

THe rear seat might as well tilt back too, you sure can't carry groceries in the back!

.

Hmmmm...thats strange....I get tons of groceries in the back. Its actually a plus that it isn't too wide. It keeps the stuff from rolling around and I am able to stack the lighter bags on top pf the heavy ones.

Sean

i can't fit anything in back, i've got a giant sub box :twisted:

I have been looking at the TC and the XB. I am going to buy, (or not, depending on you) this weekend.

I am heavily leaning toward the XB for the following:

I have an 03 Tundra right now, and the 350 mile commute per week is a lot. (XB will save me about $15 per week).

I need the 4 seats in the XB. And the easy in and out.

I think it will be great for short trips with the wife and 2 kids.

I understand the biggest gripes are the cargo space and no armrest, but how about quality? Can I expect the same Toyota Quality? Would you all buy this again? I am looking at a bone stock automatic, is this the right way to go? Are there any items I should add on at time of purchase?

Please reply quickly!

Thanks!

The shifter, fonky hubcaps, and no armrest.

do you think scion has learned from any of this yet 05 still dont have anything fixed
hello scion are you home i bet some guy in marketing f__ed up if they wanted a car for the generation x they would have at least sold a bigger hamster under the hood as an optional motor or come out with a type r version special order all big car manufacturers sale a race version of something they make :roll: :roll:

You guys who say not enough head, cargo room must be claustrophobic.

Im 6'2" and I dont feel like im sitting in an engine crate. After a month of driving it nonstop I got into my moms explorer for the weekend and felt like I was trapped in a clam shell, I had to get back into my box just to breathe.

And when I pack 5 people in there theres no complaints except when the people in the back say WHERES THE FRIKKIN AC? Which I guess is a problem but I cant tell (Feels like a cylindrical igloo up front).

As for cargo room I cant believe how much stuff I can fit in there. Im in a band and I take it out to gigs all the time. The list of stuff I pack in there is as follows.

5 guitar cases,1 keyboard case, 2 pedalboards, 3 amp heads, stands, racks, electronic drums, and anything else I can squeeze in.

I do hate the stupid vanity mirror thing, I get laughed at alot because of that.

But I think my biggest complaint is those two stupid cupholders in the front, I get a 20oz coffee everyday and almost everyday I spill it all over my shifter (GRRRR!!). I think they need to make it as deep as the one in back.

But beyond that nothing too serious.

The first thing people usually say when they get in my car is WOW IT'S LIKE A MOVIE THEATER IN HERE!

No Porsche Red.

I have been looking at the TC and the XB. I am going to buy, (or not, depending on you) this weekend.

I am heavily leaning toward the XB for the following:

I have an 03 Tundra right now, and the 350 mile commute per week is a lot. (XB will save me about $15 per week).

I need the 4 seats in the XB. And the easy in and out.

I think it will be great for short trips with the wife and 2 kids.

I understand the biggest gripes are the cargo space and no armrest, but how about quality? Can I expect the same Toyota Quality? Would you all buy this again? I am looking at a bone stock automatic, is this the right way to go? Are there any items I should add on at time of purchase?

Please reply quickly!

Thanks!


I've only had my xB for 3 weeks. Its a good getting from point A to B, the mileage is great. I can only hope that because Toyota made this, it'd have reliability. Quality? You get what you pay for. As the kids get older, they'll appreciate getting out of their own door.

What? Not enough elbow room???

How big are you guys? I'm pushing 300 lbs (yeah, shame on me) and I took my first test drive with a salesman who's at least 350 and the xB felt as roomy as a Winnibago. Maybe it's because I've been driving a regular cab S-10 for years.

As far as power goes, sure, too much is never enough, but you knew it had a tiny motor when you bought it. Did you expect the power elves to work magic on it while you slept?

Given that, in my driving around town, I'm still usually half way down the block before the rest of traffic manages to cross the intersection. I'm still passing slow drivers. In fact, I'm often surprised how fast I'm going when I bother to look at the speedo.

I once scoffed at the idea of small engines with automatics, In fact, this is my first automatic since 1971. But modern automatic trannies are so good these days. This thing is just mash the pedal and go. I suspect you notice the lack of power more when you have to do all the shifting yourself.

No, I'm not going to win any drag races (unless the other guy doesn't know we're racing), but in everyday driving it more than gets out of its own way.

My girlfriend says that the visor mirror needs a light!

Turning circle too big, tilt steering wheel doesnt come down far enough, and TORQUE /HP.

So far only thing I dont like about the XB is the rattle nosie i hear from the front dash. I have an apointement to get it checked out. I doubt they can do anything. Oh also needs more interior dome lights. Everything else is fine such as HP it isnt slow as it sounds because you get the good gas mileage.

So, what do yall think the scion's biggest flaw is?
M__Y____x__B____I__S___P__E__R__F__E__C__T

With all the complaining on this thread----it shocks me that there aren't more xB's on the used car market----I don't see them listed in the Auto Trader, in the newspapers, or on the Toyota lots--------ya, once in a while a stray one here or there-----but they remain very scarce. Why is that???

xB weakness: Easily scratched / chipped paint job and thin (easily dented) sheet metal.
Gotta start saving for a new paint job in a few years.
:tap:
Too bad the body panels aren’t made of plastic like a Saturn.
Then you would have a super durable and reliable econo-car.
Maybe someone can make aftermarket body panels like the carbon fiber font fenders and hood i've seen elsewhere.
Any ideas on how to do this?
:ponder:

whats wrong with the xb?

a gutless motor that cannot be easily upgraded.

wrong wheel drive.

i didnt expect to go to a car lot of any type and buy a car with 17 miles on it for 14k and 20,000 miles later be blue booked for 2k more than i paid for it, nor did i expect the thing to be flawless.

When i find something about it that i dont like or doesnt suit me, i change it, heck its my car isnt it? The lock knobs hit my funnybone, so i lowered them, the steering was too slack, so i upgraded bushings, it needed an armrest, so i bought the best one on the market, the shift pattern was too wide, so i bought a short throw shifter and modded it even more, i could go on and on for hours like this, point is i i feel like i got what i paid for and i made it into mine, exactly how i felt it needed to be, and still have managed to win over 1k worth of prizes and throphies with it?

If i were to wreck my xb, i would go straight to the dealership and order another 5 speed with no options and start over again, hopefully with parts from this one, but i would not consider buying anything else that is on the US market as of now

So, what do yall think the scion's biggest flaw is?
M__Y____x__B____I__S___P__E__R__F__E__C__T Doh! I shouldn't have said that!

This morning my xB revealed its first flaw: It's snowy here in MN this morning and the rear wiper is tooooo wimpy to keep the rear window clean of the slushy snot that accumulates. I stopped at a gas station and cleaned it off, but the wiper can't quite keep up. Yeah, it's a minor nit . . . .

I sure LIKE the Traction Control and ABS, though! This is a GOOD winter commuter!!

When I first test drove the xB, I asked the salesman how the a/c worked...
He reached over, pushed the button and turned the knob.
"OHHHH... It's manual!"
He looked at me surprised and said, "This is a $14,000 car, what did you expect!?"

WW :rofl:

the only things that I don't care too much for is the weak back speakers, and the light that sits in the middle of the car. They could have put a light for the front and one for the back. Other than that I absolutely love my car, and will ride it till the wheels fall off. Or trade it for a RS3.

i didnt expect to go to a car lot of any type and buy a car with 17 miles on it for 14k and 20,000 miles later be blue booked for 2k more than i paid for it, nor did i expect the thing to be flawless.


I agree, I just looked mine up, it was an '05 demo one, after having it only 2 months and now with a total 3,400 miles it is valued at $1,250 more than what I paid for it. I would have to say I got a good deal, and that far outweighs any negatives about the car.

I own a '05 xB, wife owns an '06 tC. Before the xB, I owned an '03 Matrix base.

In regards to hp, it does feel a bit underpowered, but so did my Matrix. The XRS hits lift at around 6800 rpm, so either you don't get the benefit of the extra 50hp or the car is constantly buzzing when you drive it. The XRS needs premium fuel too. As for the base, it felt a heck of a lot better when I installed an SRI.

Between the Matrix and xB, the xB feels less cramped. To me, the hp argument (corolla vs echo) resembles a 'the grass is greener' sort of situation.

What really gets me is the quality between the tC and xB, given the final cost difference was somewhere around $4000.

For that extra four, she got a better overall dash/interior, radio controls in the wheel, armrest, dual moonroof (well, the back doesn't open, but it's still gorgeous), 17" rims and yokohama tires, airbags all around (we waited so she could get the side curtain air bags), bigger engine and most importantly a much more solid feeling car.

Also, her car is a lot more responsive than mine. Her's is an auto, mine's a manual. The responsiveness in the xB improved once I installed the RS short shifter, but I can't see why they couldn't make a stock shifter whose shifts don't feel like they are a mile apart (or, I guess that's why they offer a ridiculously priced TRD shifter).

Finally, her mileage is respectable - I think she's averaging slightly below the EPA mark, I'm hitting the EPA mark.

I guess that's what gets me the most. I didn't want such a low riding car, which is why I didn't get a tC (the Matrix, by the way, was destroyed in an accident - I didn't buy another Matrix because I don't like what they did with it for th 05 model).

What I'm trying to get at here is for what I paid for the xB, I got pretty much what I expected; with my wife's tC, she got a lot more than what I thought we'd get (the base Matrix costs about 2K less, but that's about how much it costs for the dealer to put in a similar sunroof and it STILL isn't *nearly* as nice on the inside).

As for the noise, I put down some dynamat all around the car and WOW it makes a huge difference. I can actually have a normal volume conversation at 65MPH.

Perhaps it's just that I don't like the feeling of having to spend extra money in aftermarket to what she got stock. There's quite a bit in the aftermarket scene, but adding it up it could almost equal in value of a tC!

That's just my 2c. Take it for what you will. :lalala:

First would be the damned 4roof, they need to make it so that water doesn't poor into the car everytime you open the door when it's raining (IE - everyday here in FL).



lol i love this one, so true

I would say HP, but then again, I live in Guam.
What the heck Iam gonna do with 300hp on Guam? Traffic stops avery 1/4 mile or less where I live. :tap:

2nd would be armrest.

not going to read through 5 pages...
but has anyone said the engine?!!

Is it just me or does the steering wheel feel really low in comparison for most cars... I'm not Yao Ming just 6 foot.

Oh and if yo wonna be really nit picky a lumbar would have been super sweet.... what would it cost toyota 75cents to include it in the vehicle stock and it would make folks greatly more satisfied... in opinion... I'm sorry got a bad back and lumbar would be _____in'.

A BIG BIG props to everyone for responding with your feedback and supporting this thread.

-will

The Steering Wheel is LOW , Because the Seat is HIGH . In order for you to be able to sit Comfortably ( Like in a Chair at home ) these 2 things needed to be sacrificed . But in doing this is what helped give it its FISH BOWL VIEW since the Dash and Steering Wheel are LOW and Not in the way .
I LIKE IT LIKE THAT
I too have a Bad Back and found the BOX to be a VERY EASY car to have . IT IS SOOO EASY TO GET IN OR OUT OF ! You just walk in , and walk out of it You REALLY DONT EVEN HAVE TO BEND YOUR NECK OR DUCK YOUR HEAD EITHER . :clap:

AND MY LITTLE BOX HAS A 200LB LIFT IN THE BACK ! :bow: I own a little Electric Scooter that I lift into the back . SO THERE ARE~ NOT~ A LOT OF CARS ON THE MARKET THAT COULD PULL OFF THAT JOB :no: And LOOK SWEET TOO !
And its FUNNY , probably what people dislike about the front seats is what I love . With the SEAT BOTTOM kind of FLAT , Im NOT forced into the ANGLE SOMEONE ELSE SAYS IS RIGHT Besides it is SOO EASY to put some SPACERS on your FRONT NUTS , to LIFT and GIVE ANGLE .

BUT LISTEN TO THIS ~ DID YOU ALL READ THAT THE BOX CAN NOT CARRY MORE THAN 800 - 900 LBS ~ AND YOU CAN NOT TOW WITH IT EITHER
I know a couple friends that would be pretty close to that - SO NO BOX LUNCHES
BUT MY BIGGEST GRIPE IS THAT THERE IS NOT ENOUGH - LITE , ITS DARK !
And I guess next would be a HYBRID , the SQUARENESS lends itself to that .
BUT JUST GIVE ME LIGHT and I`ll be HAPPY :silly:
I STILL THINK THIS IS A FUN CAR TO DRIVE - WEeeEEeeeeEWEEEeeeee

Lack of interior light is the worst thing for me.

I knew about its small engine and test drove one before I bought one. To me, it has plenty of power for normal driving around town and on the highway. I recommend anyone looking to buy one- TEST DRIVE ONE FIRST. That way, you won't have to complain about its apparent lack of power, which it doesn't have, in my opinion.

For the kind of driving MOST people do - IN TRAFFIC ! This car is a Light and Quick BOX in the city and Parker ! I have an Automatic , but its STILL FUN to Drive !
I knew it had 108 , but I saw the carrying ability , and figured I would just GIVE UP on thinking this would be anything OTHER than an Economy Car that is SLOW . But I have this FWY that is Uphill , I even have to start on the slope , But I Have NEVER had ANYONE behind me on my SQUARE ARSE telling me to" MOVE OUT OF THE WAY " I also have been able to keep up my speed where other cars are not . That may be the driver and Not the car , but I have had No Problem , AND my 108 is NOT revving High with a WEEEEEEEEEE either . :nope:
So I have ONLY been HAPPY with EVERYTHING - Except LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT !

:bow: ONE - 0 - EIGHT :clap:

I totally agree. Alot of extra HP is wasted. I considered getting a Hemi-powered Magnum and I thought, "I'd have all this power and no where to use it" 95% of my driving is city and the box is perfect for that. And when I do get on the fwy (when it isn't stop and go) I have no problem getting up to 80 and cruising.

I think they could have made the box a little wider and whoever mentioned the sliding rear seat - that's a good idea.

I agree the interior is a little weak, but so is the magnum, 300C, volvo's and alot of other cars I considered. And for less than the cost of those, I can make my interior whatever I want.

anything under 600 hp is never too much.

Volume adjust buttons should be a knob, the seats should be tilted back a bit, the texture of the interior plastic should be changed,

I've got an '06 xb so I've got "the KNob" that everyone so desperately wants. Let me tell you, it's over rated. It is so shalow and stiff to turn that you end up pushing it as you try to turn up the volume which puts you in sound options mode so you then turn up your bass instead and so then you have to cycle through the options to get get to volume. bass no, treble no, fade, balacne asl mode no, volume no, DOH I missed it back again. LOL

Other than that I wish my box had heated mirrors, I often have to scape ice off of them.

I thought YEAH! :clap: A KNOB !
But in the next second :doh:
That is great to know that the knob is Shallow , I actually have gotten " Used to " using the 2 bars - NOW .

I wish the rear window wiper had a delay setting.
I wish there were a map light.

Other than that, no major complaints.

Other than that I wish my box had heated mirrors, I often have to scape ice off of them.

The original print of the orners manual detailed the usage of the heated side view mirrors. according to my owners manual I have them.. but I don't.

The delay on the rear wiper would be nice.

thin paint

soft glass

front seat has less leg room than the back seats.

Yeah , the Paint is THIN and shows SWIRLS ( at least with dark colors ) You MUST WAX :bow:
:idea: And NOW that I think of it ..... The Rear Bumper STICKER !?!?!?!? :ponder: :nope: All that is good for is WAX Sticking to it .
:question: Who EVER came up with that THING , needs to be :gun:

ANY OTHER Car Co. WHO HAS a VEH that NEEDS a Rear BUMPER GUARD , ACTUALLY HAS IT , A THICKER RUBBER GUARD !!! NOT A STICKER !!![/
Does ANYONE know of SOME OTHER CARS *REAL* BUMPER GUARD that would FIT ????

I havent seen lately , But there is a cigarette lighter MAP LIGHT . That would be Helpful ( Always back to MORE :idea: LIGHTAGE ! )
I hope in the future there will be a REAR VIEW with a LIGHT that we can add :pray:

AND AFTER ALL THAT , ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS .......... I LOVE MY BOX !!!!!! :love:

Gripes so far (at 43,000 miles)

Weak AC - had to have entire unit replaced
Steering rack failed and had to be replaced
Caveman interior lights
Thin paint that easily scratches

the paint is the worst since i drive on the express way 4 days a week

it could use at least another 50hp

i would like the number pad under the driverside door handle.. and also i have some vibration when the windows are cracked.. but its still 99.9% AWSUM

Well there are certainly things that could be better with every car but i would say the biggest thing with me was the cruise control. I put the Rostra kit in mine and it works fine but it would have been nice if i didnt have to splice and molest my brand new car to get cruise. The armrest is nice to have now but it wasnt a huge deal. For all you out there that complained about that, i just installed the factory armrest kit today at lunch. took about 5 mins and seems to be a cool little unit. Part# PTS3252050, cost was $79. You can order scion parts from any toyota dealer just incase some of you didnt know.

lack of 1zz factory option.

we all know it's all about economy and to fill speciic price point, but I wouldn't have minded to pay a little bit more for an Xb engineered with the tC engine. They could have given the tC a 200 hp engine and stuffed the box with the 160 one. That would have been perfect. But it probably would have upped the price a bit.

cruise control

Yeah , the Paint is THIN and shows SWIRLS ( at least with dark colors ) You MUST WAX :bow:
:idea: And NOW that I think of it ..... The Rear Bumper STICKER !?!?!?!? :ponder: :nope: All that is good for is WAX Sticking to it .
:question: Who EVER came up with that THING , needs to be :gun:

ANY OTHER Car Co. WHO HAS a VEH that NEEDS a Rear BUMPER GUARD , ACTUALLY HAS IT , A THICKER RUBBER GUARD !!! NOT A STICKER !!![/
Does ANYONE know of SOME OTHER CARS *REAL* BUMPER GUARD that would FIT ????

I havent seen lately , But there is a cigarette lighter MAP LIGHT . That would be Helpful ( Always back to MORE :idea: LIGHTAGE ! )
I hope in the future there will be a REAR VIEW with a LIGHT that we can add :pray:

AND AFTER ALL THAT , ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS .......... I LOVE MY BOX !!!!!! :love:

holy post formatting batman! for a second there, i thought i was on EBAY..

It needs a 6th gear.

If they made a 7-passenger version I'd buy it in a second:

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=42184&highlight=limo

The ECU being too smart which is why I have to spend extra bucks getting a greddy emanage as opposed to my apexi safc2...but the only real surefire way to prevent the ECU from messing with my fuel settings is to get a stand alone ecu which is like $3000 installed! :tap:

1100 miles here

My complaints:

1) Windshield wiper timings, both front and rear. Make the rear like the front with on/interval/off, and the front with at least 3 different speeds, esepcially a very slow one for when I'm getting misted by wet roads.

2) Armrest: I'm iffy about getting the factory armrest as I beleive it's not gonna be useful and not having one is a pain. Plus the rest on the door is too low so I have to set my elbow up on the window frame.. gets a might uncomfortable on long voyages.

3) 'Engine Cold' light. I swear, every time I start the thing I think I have my highbeams on. The two indicators are different shades of blue, but not enough for me to not check to make sure I'm not blinding anyone with my highs.

And now for my 'Only me' problems

1) Door base corner: Not sure if anyone's mentioned it, but the size of the door has actually caused me to gouge the base of my left leg three times now due to how I get out of the box and shut the door. I think I've manged to adjust my habits to compensate, but I fear I may lapse when I start wearing shorts and not jeans :nails:

2) Rear hatch: It comes up just an inch below the top of my head! Darn it!

3) Numb leg: My anatomy caused my right leg to lean out into the center console area up against the auto shifter, leading to a strange numbness in my leg that's still present mildly. Some foam, a hot glue gun, duct tape, and part of an old mud flap created a knee rest which is quite comfortable now.

And, uhm.. that's it! It's got plenty o' power, the stero is great, and it's a wonderful car!

3) 'Engine Cold' light.


I second that. It won't shift into overdrive until the light goes off.

I've got an '06 xb so I've got "the KNob" that everyone so desperately wants. Let me tell you, it's over rated. It is so shalow and stiff to turn that you end up pushing it as you try to turn up the volume which puts you in sound options mode so you then turn up your bass instead and so then you have to cycle through the options to get get to volume. bass no, treble no, fade, balacne asl mode no, volume no, DOH I missed it back again. LOL


The knob bugs me more and more. I'm going to see if my friend that runs a CNC machine will make a longer billet one for me. I could live with the stiff knob as long as it was longer. Anyone know if the knob can just be pulled straight off like on most cars?

I've only owned my xB for 1 week. I bought it as an economical alternative to my other cars, so the power is no issue. Who cares how much power you have sitting in traffic for 3 hours a day?! But some of my gripes are:

- above mentioned volume knob
- steering wheel seems to sit a little off-center versus the seat, bt maybe it's just me
- instrument cluster should be directly in front of me, I'm the driver. Why do my passengers need to know the RPM and speed?
- instrument cluster is bright white where the other lights are orange. I know I can change these with a little effort, but they should match. Maybe this was so I know where the cluster is since it's in front of me (see above)
- I wish the seat was tilted back a little
- lack of lighting. I'll have to put in some map lights and a front dome light
- pitiful vanity mirrors, again with no lights (this one's for my wife)
- no armrest. I installed the Boomerang one. It's better than nothing, but it's not quite tall or long enough, and it's not adjustable.

I knew about most of this stuff before buying it, so no shockers. Again, it's my daily driver and I wasn't too concerned with the small details.

A few of the things that bugs me include:

-Cheap plastic interior (already a little dinged up from my bass guitar case, bass amp and cab)
-powered seats that can move in every direction... ok ok I know, its not a luxury car.
-it could use a little more power, im just an average driver but its nice to try a powerful car
-horrible stereo knob. I plug my ipod in using the AUX, so I usually liek to turn the audio down rather than mute. When I turn it down (or up) i usually end up pressing it because its not really "grippable"
-the thin paint sucks. someone mustve been messing around by my car and their backpack mustve left a scratch :(

no cruies control. that is lame lame lame

First and foremost, the xB is an excellent value and any complaints are minor all things considered. The two things that I notice the most are that the seating/steering wheel positions aren't that great. Given the demographic of this car, it would make sense to at allow more you to adjust seat height and tilt, i.e. so you don't have to sit like you're driving a bus. Also, the windshield seems to fog up at the drop of a hat. Considering the competition, the xB is a rockstar.

Bigest Flaw The Xb Has Is The Driver............................>

Only Flaw The Xb Has Is The Driver............................>

LOL! I feel the same way. I am not sure many people know this but - THE XB IS AN ECONOMY CAR! IT'S NOT A LUXURY CAR, IT'S NOT AN SUV, IT'S NOT a lot of things.

What it is is a great deal for what you get. Price vs. functionality, you can not beat it.

I feel that people who complain about every little thing wrong with the xB - then hold it against the xB - have too much time on their hands and love complaining. reminds me of the people in my apartment building... :come:

not sure how many times this flaw was brough tup... but i hate waking up and it is a beautiful sunny morning, but it rained last night.... and the rain on the top of the roof takes FOREVER to fall off, and when it does, and your window happens to be open, bam straight onto the window / door lock electronics.... they needed a bigger channel to divert the water over the windshield possibly...

and about 3 inches wider. to push the front passenger seat over a little. i hate when my dad sits in the front seat and i have to shift into fifth, and his thigh is in the way.... same problem with anybody sitting in the front seat... the upside... cute girl... i tend to shift into fifth alot, or just rest my hand there when i am driving :P can't really think of any other problems that i have.

You all know that We are all spoiled with all of our modern conveniences in our cars...my biggest complaint is that I didn't test drive my xB sooner, there isn't any other automaker who has as unique a vehicle with all the features mine has for less than $19,000. For the minor details I'm not happy with..aftermarket parts and accessories is my choice. I think that is the point of the xB to start with. Economy, safe to drive , inexpensive, Quirky and FUN. If we start changing too many things like seat positions, instrument panel guages/ locations, engines, etc. you might as well go buy a Chevy or Ford and be like everyone else.

preachin to the choir...AHMENNNNNN

1)Engine temp lights
2)interior light
3)Couldn't test drive one, had to buy on looks alone...which is kinda why I bought it originally

I have a temporary fix for the knob issue, I used a 3/4" bypass plug to press over the knob. A bypass plug is basically a large vacuum plug. It looks stupid but until I find a better solution......

horsepower and a six speed but I'll live because it gets 15mpg more then my truck.

I think the car is GREAT for the price. I really dont have a complaint about anything except TWO things and they are.......
1) the vanity mirror velcro thingy......it NEVER sticks :(
2) maybe two little lights under the rearview mirror

other than that, for the price, everything is good on the car. i actually really like the dash because its not something that needs armor all and is gonna crack BECAUSE of using armor all years down the road. I think it has TONS of room, no matter how far you move the front seat back, no one complains about their legs being squished, and besides all that good stuff....remember they all come STOCK with power windows and door locks.

If the tailgate would open a few inches higher I wouldn't have these knots on my head.

That being said, I've finally (I think) learned to duck.

Also, it would be nice if the front seats had a few inches more rearward travel.

Of course, these aren't problems for shorter folks.

not sure how many times this flaw was brough tup... but i hate waking up and it is a beautiful sunny morning, but it rained last night.... and the rain on the top of the roof takes FOREVER to fall off, and when it does, and your window happens to be open, bam straight onto the window / door lock electronics.... they needed a bigger channel to divert the water over the windshield possibly...

and about 3 inches wider. to push the front passenger seat over a little. i hate when my dad sits in the front seat and i have to shift into fifth, and his thigh is in the way.... same problem with anybody sitting in the front seat... the upside... cute girl... i tend to shift into fifth alot, or just rest my hand there when i am driving :P can't really think of any other problems that i have.window visors. wade's are delicious to me.

Cheap paint, and lack of interior lights.

Armrest, cruise control, maybe another dome light, and a little more cargo space, and an auxilary outlet or two.

Also I don't like the way the door panels mark up so easily. Granted they come clean but you can draw on them with just your finger.

The only things I would modify: add a sliding extender to the sunvisor, for use on the side window; add maplights in front (the ones you can click on and off independently), and some lights in the cargo area.

Other than that, my box rocks!

- varying treatment on service from dealer to dealer, where some ignore the Scion warranty
- outer paint is equal to wearing a wind breaker
- very cheap interior materials
- thin layer of clear coat on paint
- options ala sun roof, etc. non-existant


I know most of us here are scion fanatics (including myself)... we think xb are pretty darn cool in most ways... but nothings perfect, and ther is always room for inprovement.

So, what do yall think the scion's biggest flaw is?

--> Horsepower/ Torque (powertrain)
--> Dimentions
--> Availablity
--> More options.... cruise, sunroof?
--> Value of accessories
--> design (aerodynamics)
--> interior design... controls, seats
--> true pricing
--> lack of finacial incentives... rebates, low apr
--> any other specs

As for me... the horse power is nothing spectacular but with a couple typical additons (CIA, headers, exhaust) it is tolerable... but more importantly it feels narrow inside when my friend and I hop in... seems like shoulder room is a bit lacking but no enough to warrant me cancelling my RS1 order. Just venting a bit... wanted to know if i was the only one.

One question, and one complaint.

Why is there a low temp light? Obviously the engine is cold when you first start it. The fix is to keep driving!

My complaint is about the iPod stereo. The navigation of the menus is a lot more difficult than on the iPod itself. Firstly, pressing menu always brings you back to the opening menu as opposed to just going up one level (for instance, if you want to pick a different song on the same albumn, you still have to go menu-artist-albumn-song instead of just menu-song like on the iPod). There's no pause button, so when I mute for a phone call I miss a couple of songs. The selector wheels are a little too touchy for my taste, and sometimes it takes me several tries to get the actual selection I want. It would be nice to have more than one thing on the screen at one time to make it easier to select things. Lastly, it would be nice to have the song information scroll across the screen instead of having to push "text" a bunch of times.

Really though, other than the stereo I love my box.

I can live with the underpower,small area behind the rear seat,wimpy glass tempering,thin paint,K-Mart wheel covers,dash and so on.
.BUT..just got scion floor mats(had to order and ship to me) and the damn things DO NOT FIT!
heading to the dealer now grrrrrr

I just traded in my tundra for a tC ( mainly for fuel economy) and while their my wife fell in love with the xB, Not for the ugly box shape, not for the wimpy echo motor, but for the fact that you sit up like you are in a truck and still get hella MPG. I can find more than one thing wrong with it, but what it has right, for my wife atleast is the front seat.

Nothing major for me...
The interior lighting,
Having to put aftermarket cruise on.
Matt

Well my major gripe is the sun visor. What's the point of it when you have to use it for your driver's side window? All they had to do was make it so it can be extended. Anyone know of a fix for this or some aftermarket visor possibly? I really don't want to get one of those add on extenders.

I quoted myself. This is really my only issue and I still haven't found a good solution. I think I will have to put some kind of tint but don't really want to do that.

First and foremost, the xB is an excellent value and any complaints are minor all things considered. The two things that I notice the most are that the seating/steering wheel positions aren't that great. Given the demographic of this car, it would make sense to at allow more you to adjust seat height and tilt, i.e. so you don't have to sit like you're driving a bus. Also, the windshield seems to fog up at the drop of a hat. Considering the competition, the xB is a rockstar.

There have been a few complaints about the seats, wondering if anyone here has owned or driven a mini? Those are the coolest friggin seats i've ever seen in a low end car. The ratcheting height adjustment was awesome.

As for the NUMEROUS hp complaints, my 85 and my 90 4runner both had less hp, more low end torgue, but are a lot heavier. My 97 4runner with the 4cyl engine only has 150. 100+ hp for a car as light as our xb's is really quite good, how much did the original bug or civic have? The whole hp escalation war has gotten way out of hand. When I first started paying attention to cars in the mid eighties anthying that could do 0-60 in less than 8 seconds was considered really fast. SUV's and pickups are faster than that now, it's nuts.

My complaints about our xb are a dash rattle that i hope to chase down, and the, uh... well... hmmm.

I guess I think this is a really awesome vehicle for the price. I expected it to be a tin can for the price, and was kind of surprised how much my wife and I liked it. Honestly, this is plenty of car for about 2/3rds of the population - it's really flexible and does a lot of things quite well. Kind of a MUV - Micro Utility Vehicle.

I can't believe I read the whole thing!

I must be off the deep end about this car.

The stroller gripe? It's not the car, it's the stroller! Get one of these, they fold up to not much bigger than an umbrella-

http://www.shop.com/op/aprod-p31142758-k24-g4-~umbrella+stroller-nover?sourceid=3

Even the cheapest is pretty durable- used one for two boys, passed it on to a friend for their infant...

Need more cargo capacity? Yakima!-

http://scionpartspeople.com/SearchProduct.asp?Model=xB&catid=330298305023924&year=04&productdesc=Yakima+Roof+Rack

With about a zillion attachments available, including one clamshell gizmo that has the cargo capacity of a doublewide coffin... great just the way it is for a few sheets of plywood or sheetrock, 2x4's, pipe, whatever... I was surprised at just how stout the thing really is. Definitely heavy-duty.

The sunvisor thing? pretty common, and easy enough to remedy with a variety of hardware...

Short gearing? probably more of an issue in flat country, but a six speed would be optimal... here in Colorado, the short gearing is actually an advantage up in the hills, giving more useable gear ranges. Heading west out of Denver, most econobox fifth gears are a pipedream, anyway, and even fourth is of limited utility... Like most small performance motors, it'll run well if you keep it up on the power curve, and the 10.5:1 compression ration dictates at least 87 octane fuel while ruling out practical turbos and superchargers... the computer sets back the timing terribly with 85 octane gas, causing performance to suffer...

My biggest gripe is the seat/ pedals/ steering wheel ergonomics, which is common among taller drivers- give me 2" more of rearward seat travel and a telescoping wheel, and I'd be a very happy camper. Yeh, I can work with the seat, but it won't do any good if the wheel won't follow along, and I haven't figured out that part...

Better soundproofing would be a big plus, and not expensive at all to achieve... I recently discovered that the stock Goodyears on my '06 are noisy as hell on some pavement surfaces- a particularly lousy choice given the soundproofing issue...

It's easily the most practical and distinctive ride in the pricerange, so I'll deal with the flaws to have the advantages...

I didn't read all the way through this thread, but what about the low ground clearance of the body? Our local roads have so many dips, holes, speed bumps, etc. that I'm driving scared half the time of breaking off parts of the body! I know some of it is for looks, but is it functional at all?
I also am having a hard time getting used to reading the mph on the speedo, especially when speed limit is 35/45/65 etc.

:P trunk space!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO ARMREST!!! Bought mine after 2 days of driving with my arm hanging.

Hmm i seen alot of people with armrest issues but they can be bought on ebay. also another good place to shop for some oem upgrades is here www.scionpartspeople.com got a few things there for quite a bit less then buying them from toyota. Moonroof woulda been cool but ill get my own put in and itll be alot better than a stock so its ok. I love my xb always a head turner :)

Yeah Ilove mine except for the dash rattle still trying to chase it down. I have the Power sinroof option, tyc tailights with the stocks smoked when I get bored and wanna switch great 8 dollar mod and Undercoating great for the nois reduction

3) 'Engine Cold' light.


I second that. It won't shift into overdrive until the light goes off.

Not an xB owner yet, but I find that rather amusing. I currently drive an '86 Corvette with the 4+3 manual transmission, and the way it's set up, the engine temp has to reach 119 degrees before it will allow me to engage the Overdrive. Fortunately my street's about a mile long, so the car has ample time to heat up before I get to the freeway.

Rear Dome Light
Map Lights
more interior lights

thats my only gripe about the car, but for performance-wise, Itas perfect for what it is. Its noot meant to outdo anything exept itself.

i have griped before, and it rains alot where i live, so more griping!

when the rain flows off the roof it flows right down the windows and straight onto the window and doorlock controls!!!!!! I HATE THAT!!!! cant wait for the money to get me esams!

no armrest --fixable.

Cupholders... i only have two. and they are hard to get big cups into / out of.

uhmm i think maybe thats about it. never a big deal, but still flaws.

Sure.. the usual things like no armrest, windshield rock chips, crappy paint.. etc bother me... and since I have an '05, with the older all-button stereo and no steering wheel controls for it.. it's a hard reach a lot... but actually the things I'm hating most are:

1- Noisy. Needs padding in the tailgate at least... there's nothing in there.. it's literally a tin can on wheels. That would help.

2- Rear speaker placement. It's OK if there's nothing in the back... but if there's people in the back seat, AND cargo (God forbid), they cannot hear the radio because the speakers are blocked. The speakers should be either in the rear doors (which I am contemplating moving them to... seriously... or should be at/above ear level in the white trim. I would prefer in door. It's really annoying having to blast my ears out in the front just so the people in back can hear...

3- Rear seat... I wish the rear seat folded truly flat, and had better reinforcement when cargo was on top of it... it's very uneven and soft in some places... and the spare covers are too weak (seriously considering installing some hard plastic covers on them to help out). It would be nice if it could slide forward too. There's TOO much room in front of my legs and not enough behind the rear seat for cargo. It's also be nice if somehow the rea seat could fold backwards too... not likely... but it's be cool.. then when I fold down the front seats flat I could have a bed too! :P

4- Cup holders are too low... I am constantly having to bend over to get something out of the cup holder while i'm freeway driving... not good. This also affects the E-brake... it's too close to the seat.. I feel i'm going to rub my hand off on the seat every time...

5- Seat belts. The rear ones aren't adjustable, which is odd because that's the most likely place you'd have a short person, like a child, where they need to be shorter. And the fact that if I sit in the passenger side, the seat belt clicks in on me and ratchets back to the point I have to unbuckle and rebuckle it if I lean forward just to get something out of the glove box... I am bigger than "average"... but i'm not a fatso either... what's up with this?

6- Dome light/map lights... what's up with this? The dome light pretty much only lights the rear seats... it's a VERY far reach to reach back from the driver's seat to turn on or off... there's not much light up front at all.. and the cargo area is dark dark dark. The area in the roof right in front of the mirror looks like it's made to support a small map light package... but where are they?

7- VSC/Traction control... which is nice... BUT... I would rather see other features instead of it. It's a weak system that doesn't really do much... it takes a LOT to set it off, and even when you do it doesn't seem to do a lot except beep at you frantically. I did donuts on the beach, in the snow/ice, on slick rainy pavement... with it both on and off (it does still beep at you even if you turn it off LOL).. and noticed only a slight difference on the rainy pavement. Totally useless.

[quote="ZONkBoX"][quote=Pojodan]
3) 'Engine Cold' light.


There's a good reason it doesn't go into overdrive until the cold light goes off... the engine is cold! That stage is used so that the engine will warm up nice and quick. Otherwise, you'd be sitting around for 10 minutes in the cold of winter waiting for heat...

No Flaws For Me .....Just A Few Small Things I Attended To For My Own Liking

It's too Aerodynamic...

The dome light is a joke!! And it does have alittle road noise but, you get used to it. I wish the back seat would recline alittle. Other than that it's not that bad of a car.

It's too Aerodynamic...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

The dome light is a joke!!

I'm thinking of picking one of these ("bright white LED light") to test it's brightness:
http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProducts/AutomotiveLighting/Products/Dotitlights/

Install it on a side by the rear cargo area. Push the center to turn off/on.
FAQ:
http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProducts/AutomotiveLighting/Products/Dotitlights/FAQ.htm

I love everything about it. And where Im from they have a sunroof option, and vanity mirrors.

no sunroof option and no boost!! i would of paid another grand each for those two options!! :evil:

My dealer had a sunroof put in my RS2 for $1,200 before I took delivery

I want an accessory armrest too.

You can get an armrest, Check e-bay

Rear windshield does not roll down like the 4runner's...and also paint is very thin..otherwise, I love my box.

I just test drove the XB for the first time. it wasn't really all that. The areodrynamics of the car isn't that great. You can't stay that the design of the car wasn't "think outside the box." I thought about getting the car, but now I am reconsidering. You got to be kidding me, $15,000 for a completely stocked/standard "Toaster." I tried to get it used, but the lowest I seen it for was $9,000 for for 40K miles. I rather get a corolla (mpg 31-35 city/ 41-45 hi).

Guys: The xb will BARELY take a stroller! TURNED ON END not even laid flat on the floor!

That is the entire cargo area.

You got that right. There is NO CARGO SPACE. Come on scion WTF!

IMO a lot of these flaws are true... But considering you payed 14k dollars for a car that has a 60k mile warranty and can be customized for your own taste I think all of you should eat your foot. You bought the car if it has so many "Flaws" why did you buy it. Im satisfied with the money I spent after all it wasn't a ton.

thats just my opinion and now the flaming shall being

If you look @ other cars, they all have flaws also, but they all cost alot more money.
I don't really have any complaints because I researched the vehicle before I bought one. I like it so much that I just bought a second!!! Check out my profile

Every mentiond can be dealt with and in most cases isn't a big deal. I definitely think the ride is too bumpy, and when it's bumpy, you are uncomfortable.

like alot of people here mention i have to say the biggest flaw is the tranny. I mean really it should be a 6 spd or the gears have to be adjusted like hard core, cuz i mean cruisin here on jersey highways is at 75 80mph and well frankly i'm sitting at 3.5 almost 4k rpms at that speeds its rediculous it really needs another gear or some major tweeking. thats about it, otherwise i love my friggin box cargo room? i dont see why people are arguing the only differance between our XB's and a ford expedition is 2 cu. ft. i mean i gotta say thats a crap load of room lol but whatever like i said better gear ratios would be nice or a 6th gear.

Well I was so excited when I bought my Scion that I didn't even thik to bother about asking about cruise control....It is a must especially now that I live in Montana again.

And then there's the power thing It could definetly use another 20-35 hp and trq. And yes this could have been done cheaply, without beefing everything else up. They just figured since this car went good in Japan it would have enough oomph, well I've been through many a mountain pass and it just isn't gonna cut it.
And oh yeah it's hard to get 300 hundred miles out of a tank, this was an easy feat acheived by my 91 corolla with the same size tank, wait maybe I should just do a little engine swap.