Hey guys,
I was wondering whether engine braking is more beneficial or detrimental to my car. I engine brake to conserve my brake pads...what are the pros/cons of engine braking?

Thanks

Brake pads are cheap, engines, trannys, and clutchs are not. With the exception of using engine braking when stopping on slippery roads, I can't think of any good reasons to do it.

i always downshift, if thats what u mean....and YES it does save your brakes. If you come off the freeway doin 80 and just slam on the brakes, you will wear them out alot faster. Also, in traffic, with a manual, you can just cruise in first gear without hittin the brakes. but with the auto you always have your foot on the brake to keep from speeding up :wink:

Do you guys coast, as well? Like, I'll disengage the clutch, go into neutral, and just cruise...

Also, when you guys brake, do you guys disengage the clutch (if you're not in neutral)...?

i engine break all the friggin time. i don't see a reason not to. break pads are cheap and trannies are expensive, but yu won't ____ the tranny if yu don't DUMP the clutch hella quick. let it into the gears slowly.

engine braking will waste gas and wear out tranny synchros faster.

so, there is no rational reason to engine brake, unless you find it particularly fun.

Not all the time, because I dont always like the jump in rpms. Sometimes though its useful, and I like having the control to decide when and where, another reason auto's suck.

engine braking will waste gas and wear out tranny synchros faster.

so, there is no rational reason to engine brake, unless you find it particularly fun.


thanks jack!

I had a manual in my Mustang, and I am certain that the manual said NOT to coast in neutral, that it could blow the transmission seals. Is this true of all cars or just that one?

I engine brake all the time, and I downshift using heel-toe just about time I need to slow down or hit a corner.

I put 80,000 miles on my old VW doing the exact same style of driving and never had a single issue with the tranny or engine. (of course, everything else on the VW seemed to break, but nothing to do with engine braking!)

Engines are for acceleration, brakes are for braking. I could explain it all but most people don't drive near the limit and would never notice any difference.

ken

i engine stopp all the time. it helps stop quicker and save your brakes. it also doesnt waste more gas. as long as you dont down shift and then let out the clutch when you where in a high rpm in the previous gear, you should have no problems with damaging your engine.

I can't , I'm in an automatic...

Engines are for acceleration, brakes are for braking. I could explain it all but most people don't drive near the limit and would never notice any difference.

ken

your penis is for ____ing, so why do yu use it for sex? your mouth is for eating, do yu use it to talk, too?

OK, someone obviously needs a lesson here on proper high performance driving technique.....

Here's what happens-first you must assume your brakes were intended to stop you in the least amount of distance and the bias is correct to do this.... My Xa is pretty darn good at it. If you are braking at the limit of traction (the fastest way to stop!) and you down shift and let the clutch out you just exceeded the limit of traction with the front wheels and you will begin to push (understeer) until you leave the road and crash (if you are entering a corner) or get traction back and can turn. Invoking the ABS is NOT the fastest way to brake...

If you are just driving around.... go ahead and engine brake, it won't cause damage or use more fuel.

As for saving the brakes.... Who cares-they are intended to be consumeables... I know I will replace my pads every year and a half or so-it's not hard to do either.

ken

OK, someone obviously needs a lesson here on proper high performance driving technique.....

Here's what happens-first you must assume your brakes were intended to stop you in the least amount of distance and the bias is correct to do this.... My Xa is pretty darn good at it. If you are braking at the limit of traction (the fastest way to stop!) and you down shift and let the clutch out you just exceeded the limit of traction with the front wheels and you will begin to push (understeer) until you leave the road and crash (if you are entering a corner) or get traction back and can turn. Invoking the ABS is NOT the fastest way to brake...



ken

Yes if you downshift and pop the clutch you're going to understeer, especially if you don't give it some gas before putting it in gear...this'll cause the nose to dive and you'll rev big time. You're suppossed to blip the gas to rev it up before you release the clutch...that way when you downshift before the corner it'll be smooth, and you're ready to accelerate out of it.

Of course good driving calls for a combination of the two in moderation.

And for Christ's sake, an automatic tranny doesn't turn it into a bumper car with only stop and go. If you look past the D there's a 2 and a 1 and the OD button. You don't have to ride your brake in slow traffic, downshift!!! I'll never blow a shift from clutching at the wrong time and I can hold the revs as high as needed and then pop it to the next gear, same as the manual tranny.

But the beauty is, I don't always have to worry about it, if I don't want to. the car does a fine job in 90% of driving situations anyhow.

Sorry, just always seeing the Auto getting an underserved bashing...

:roll:

thats sound really harmful to a auto tranny...

Engine braking (when done right) will not harm your engine, trans, or waste gas. It'll actually save gas because during high vacuum deceleration very little fuel (less than at idle) gets injected into the engine. Hook up a scan tool to your car and do it, you'll see the injector pulsewidth go way down. High vacuum = less gas, low/no vacuum = more gas.
I'm guessing most of you guys probably don't know how a trans (auto or manual) actually works or how they're assembled inside. The only way to really break a trans with engine braking is downshifting or popping the clutch to high-revs suddenly and shocking the trans. Blip the throttle to bring the revs up slightly and lightly let out the clutch and you'll be fine.
The only time engine breaking is really benificial is at highway speeds to slow down slowly or fast depending on the gear you're in. It'll save your clutch a little too in a manual since you won't be letting it in and out a bunch of times while you're braking in nuetral (since that's what it seems some of you guys are doing).

thats sound really harmful to a auto tranny...

If it was a problem, I think they wouldn't have made the 2 and 1 available on the shifter and would have warned about it in the Owner's manual.

besides that, 2 words - Powertrain Warranty!

sheeet my warranty is already mostly gone already at 28,000 miles + http://www.scionlife.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif...

i do downshift when coming to a stop, but i rev match when doing so. this makes it is easier on the engine and tranny. i will also put it in neutral and cost to a stop when i don't feel like down shifting. i like to do downshift because it is part of driving a manual car. it is a good feeling to actually drive a car unlike an auto. :D

I guess i wont mention that i used to and can shift gears ( up and down ) with out a clutch. :D A little something i learned driving rigs, works in cars too, just have to be a little faster and more accurate.

personally, i enjoy putting the clutch at about half way out of it and use the brake and the engine when i'm coming out of 5k+ rpms. its satisfies my engine breaking wants, but also doesn't strees the engine too bad :)

I guess i wont mention that i used to and can shift gears ( up and down ) with out a clutch. :D

Me too... :D

I guess i wont mention that i used to and can shift gears ( up and down ) with out a clutch. :D A little something i learned driving rigs, works in cars too, just have to be a little faster and more accurate.

i have done that in other cars i have owned. it is tricky and can be done with grinding. if anyone tries this make sure you have the engine rev up enough to sync the gears and don't grind it.

I do it but need to stop so I don't waste gas.

i do downshift when coming to a stop, but i rev match when doing so. this makes it is easier on the engine and tranny. i will also put it in neutral and cost to a stop when i don't feel like down shifting. i like to do downshift because it is part of driving a manual car. it is a good feeling to actually drive a car unlike an auto. :D

ditto for me, i like keeping it in gear simply because i can respond if some thing happens: light change, accident(not my own but someone in front or behind me) etc.

now when i used to downshift using my first(well not my first but the first i drove) car, thats a different story :D an automatic acura legend it was just kinda cool. however the people that bought it had SERIOUS transmission issues. But i was 17 and didnt know any better. of course alot of things happened because of that and for some reason im not dead. :wink:

Engine braking (when done right) will not harm your engine, trans, or waste gas. It'll actually save gas because during high vacuum deceleration very little fuel (less than at idle) gets injected into the engine. Hook up a scan tool to your car and do it, you'll see the injector pulsewidth go way down. High vacuum = less gas, low/no vacuum = more gas.
I'm guessing most of you guys probably don't know how a trans (auto or manual) actually works or how they're assembled inside. The only way to really break a trans with engine braking is downshifting or popping the clutch to high-revs suddenly and shocking the trans. Blip the throttle to bring the revs up slightly and lightly let out the clutch and you'll be fine.
The only time engine breaking is really benificial is at highway speeds to slow down slowly or fast depending on the gear you're in. It'll save your clutch a little too in a manual since you won't be letting it in and out a bunch of times while you're braking in nuetral (since that's what it seems some of you guys are doing).

I agree, anyone with experience tuning on a datalogging ecu, s-afc, apexi avc-r, or any other fuel tuning tool will be able to see that the injector duty cycle goes down during coasting in gear.

---------Btw those that like to hold down the clutch, blip the gas, and down shift. you're eating up your synchros. You need to double-clutch for synchro longevity.

It's not much if a concern though if you plan on selling your car after 5 years. But after 7 years, depending on the tranny, it'll start to show signs of wear from your downshifting method.

i enging brake but it depends how i feel

if im coming up to a corner after doing 55 and the corner calls for say45-35 ill tap the brakes and blip the throttle to rev match the motor.

plus its more fun

I had a manual in my Mustang, and I am certain that the manual said NOT to coast in neutral, that it could blow the transmission seals. Is this true of all cars or just that one?

What's this all about? I would think that you're just letting the wheels spin and the engine would be idle, as if you were stopped. anyone care to explain?

would you rather replace an engine part, or some brake pads? Personally, i go for the brake pads. They are cheap and easy to install, I find that engine parts are harder to replace (impossible for me to do myself), and more expensive overall to replace due to parts costs and labor charges.

John

Do you guys coast, as well? Like, I'll disengage the clutch, go into neutral, and just cruise...

Also, when you guys brake, do you guys disengage the clutch (if you're not in neutral)...?


I sometimes coast, and pump my brakes lightly, then downshift
and once i get to a slow roll, i put it in neutral and press on the brake

Everyone has their own style, but like someone said earlier

brake pads and rotors are cheap, clutch, tranny and engine blocks arent

So use your own discrestion i say.

i don't like to engine brake...reason being, i did it a couple of times going down a steep hill...i even kept it in 5th gear one of the times, with my foot off the clutch totally...by the bottom of the hill, i had a strong smell of burnt clutch both times. people have said it's just my clutch breaking in, i have 600 miles, but i don't think it sounds right to me.
i shift into neutral and ride the brakes every once in a while down the hill, it works fine for me.
also, it's better for your gas milage to shift into neutral or push the clutch in all the way because your rpms drop to idle, engine braking to every stoplight will keep your rpms up and over time will cost you gas.

one thing i was thinking about that is really scary is this: lets say i start off on the top of the hill at the light, i start off in first gear, but i don't shift out of it, instead i keep it in gear but i push the clutch in to make it neutral...what would happen? somthing bad i think, because you pick up some speed on this hill, i could easily get to 60mph with no brakes in neutral

You would overrev the engine when you poped the clutch and possibly blow the engine, the RPM limiter only stops the engine from going too high, it wont stop the wheels from dragging the engine too high.

I use engine braking to help correct understeer.

Engine braking (when done right) will not harm your engine, trans, or waste gas. It'll actually save gas because during high vacuum deceleration very little fuel (less than at idle) gets injected into the engine. Hook up a scan tool to your car and do it, you'll see the injector pulsewidth go way down. High vacuum = less gas, low/no vacuum = more gas.
I'm guessing most of you guys probably don't know how a trans (auto or manual) actually works or how they're assembled inside. The only way to really break a trans with engine braking is downshifting or popping the clutch to high-revs suddenly and shocking the trans. Blip the throttle to bring the revs up slightly and lightly let out the clutch and you'll be fine.
The only time engine breaking is really benificial is at highway speeds to slow down slowly or fast depending on the gear you're in. It'll save your clutch a little too in a manual since you won't be letting it in and out a bunch of times while you're braking in nuetral (since that's what it seems some of you guys are doing).

I agree, anyone with experience tuning on a datalogging ecu, s-afc, apexi avc-r, or any other fuel tuning tool will be able to see that the injector duty cycle goes down during coasting in gear.

---------Btw those that like to hold down the clutch, blip the gas, and down shift. you're eating up your synchros. You need to double-clutch for synchro longevity.

It's not much if a concern though if you plan on selling your car after 5 years. But after 7 years, depending on the tranny, it'll start to show signs of wear from your downshifting method.



double clutching is pointless..... theres a whole thread on it somewhere.....

^^^^^ 100% Correct.

Anyone who thinks you need to double clutch a car nowadays(did I just use that word) watches too much F&F.

For those more experienced drivers try this little trick, Left foot braking and 3>2 downshift without using the clutch. It can be done, it just takes practice.

I'm prtetty much an adaptive driver... I engine brake depending on the situation, tight corners, highway off-ramps, etc... I also match the revs when doing so. Also, if ever in an all out to the limits of the vehicle's capability, then the brakes are designed to stop you, and the manual gear selection is used to be in the right gear to power out of the corner using the sweet spot of your powerband. One usually doesn't encounter this scenario on the public ways though... At least I would hope not!

8)

I also pretty much agree with what TheScionicMan, Dibujob, kdanie, and BigOrangeXb have all previously posted here in this thread.

:D

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread, so I'm probably just
repeating what the better drivers already said.

The advanced drivers ed classes I've taken teach down
shifting and coasting as standard practice. I also use
the gears to help keep me from "accidentally" going over
the speed limit. For example, if I'm on a road that's 30Mph
and I know it's a speed trap, I might go all the way to 4th
gear at 2000 RPM where the box pretty much idles around
32Mph. If I jump on the gas out of bordom or frustration,
I won't suddenly be up to 60 and getting a ticket. It will bog
a little and remind me that I'm supposed to be going slow.

As for wear and tear on clutches, my SAAB before it was
totaled in an accident had 330,000 on the original factory
clutch. The previous owner was a SPG racer (SAAB
Performance Group) and also downshifted for turns.

there are at least a few reasons to engine break, and a few more if you use dirt roads and drive them fast. Sharp turns are easier when the front suspension ggets preloaded by slowing the car from the front only first, the car overrotates a little inthe middle of the turn and you are already in the best gear to accelerate out of the turn. No breaking involved sometimes. this works well in the snow too.

I've only owned automatics, so I don't really know much about downshifting, but I test drove a car that I was looking into buying that was a manual and the guy (who had only owned manuals) was trying to teach me to engine brake / down shift when coming to a stop or slowing down. His reasoning was that it gave me, the driver, more control over the vehicle. When you downshift, the wheels are still being controlled by the gears in the tranny, so if you have the foot off of the gas, the tranny is bringing the car back down, faster than it would if you were to have it in neutral. It didn't make much sense until after I tried it and got used to it. I felt much more in control when I downshifted than when I had it in neutral. Of course that is what brakes are for and you should not really be worried about wearing brakes (they are so inexpensive!), but for your own safety and the well being of the car, downshifting should be practiced so you don't lose control of the vehicle. I do it (I turn off overdrive) when I'm coming down a ramp or an incline and it decreases my stopping time/distance and gives me the feeling of more control. Neutral should only be engaged when the vehicle isn't moving (or isn't moving over 10 mph). But hey, it's your car; do what you will.

Well said drizzle. I should have pointed that out too.
It's really a controll thing...plus when you are downshifted
for a turn or possible stop, you are already in the gear you
need to accelerate back up to cruising speed.

Just remembered another reason I engine brake...

When I am moving a bit faster than the speed limit and I spot a police car (marked or unmarked), I either drop it down a gear and rev match, or just hit the OD Off button if I'm in one of my company's vehicles. This way I adjust my speed to "not so noticeable" without calling much attention to my car because this way I avoid iluminating the brakes lightsand the vehicle won't "nose dive"!

:relief:

wait, im a noob. So how exactly do you engine brake? You just downshift and slowly let out the clutch and force the rpms to go up?

For those of you who rev match and then downshift, how does that help you brake anyways?

You should always always rev match. . . it doesn't help overall braking that much, but it can take some of the burden off the brakes. . .

Secondly, during high speed driving(or racing), less burden on the brakes means less heat, which means that you can save your brakes for when you need them. . . otherwise they would overheat faster.

No, engine braking does not hurt the engine. And yes, I use it all the time. But done correctly, it's not like I can stop without using the brakes at all.

engine braking will waste gas and wear out tranny synchros faster.

so, there is no rational reason to engine brake, unless you find it particularly fun.




Being in the right gear at the right time is very important, slow coasting in gear is not destrutive to the tranny. All truckers engine brake, vehicles with automatic transmissions engine brake and most motorcyclist engine brake, these engines and trannies don't seem to brake down any sooner. :no:

Do you guys coast, as well? Like, I'll disengage the clutch, go into neutral, and just cruise...

Also, when you guys brake, do you guys disengage the clutch (if you're not in neutral)...?

Downshifting (engine braking as you called it) isn't bad for your engine or tranny if done right do not downshift at a higher rpm then the gear can handle (those speeds and rpms are in the tc's manual, this is done by the tranny in an auto), its actually prefered because going into neutral and dropping rpms so fast can be bad for your engine and tranny. When slowing down an automatic tranny downshifts automatically just as you should with a manual. The problem people have and the reason why most people will say they have their own of doing it is because most people dont tap the brakes to lower the rpms enough before downshifting and they get that huge roar when the rpms sky rocket. When done right downshifting is what you should be doing, trannys are designed for it.

hope that helps

I engine break all the time also. It doesn't do anything to your tranny or synchros as long as you know how to rev-match. only downside is it burns gas, woohoo

I engine break all the time also. It doesn't do anything to your tranny or synchros as long as you know how to rev-match. only downside is it burns gas, woohoo

Could that be why I have such poor fuel mileage...?

:doh:

I kinda knew that, guess I'm just a bit of a dunce!

Have an auto and will typically use the o/d feature. Great way to slow down a bit, also to get started i leave it there untill I hit 45/50 then re-engage the o/d.
Works good in areas posted at 45 or below.

saves brakes are people dumb???

price of pads vs. price of clutch

man. . . some people never read

man. . . some people never read

word

hahaha, you read my mind, djct...

Do you guys coast, as well? Like, I'll disengage the clutch, go into neutral, and just cruise...

Also, when you guys brake, do you guys disengage the clutch (if you're not in neutral)...?

I coast in gear, give me that extra confidence as when I want to stop. Coast in neutral does not hurt as long as you have a manual, but don't do it when you're going down slope. WHen I brake, I step on the brake pedal only and will only disengage clutch at low speed (like 20-25 ). Again, engine brake play a role here.

engine braking = rear ended
why your not telling the person behind you on a cell phone drinking coffe and change radio stations while trying to stay awake your slowing down why do you think its illegal to have busted tail lights

engine braking = rear ended
why your not telling the person behind you on a cell phone drinking coffe and change radio stations while trying to stay awake your slowing down why do you think its illegal to have busted tail lights
Then apparently if they cant see they are getting closer to you they need to do 3 things...
1> stop doing all that crap and drive.
2> Back the Fsk up, I'll engine brake on purpose if some Azz is tailgating me.
3> Pay attention to driving.

engine braking = rear ended
why your not telling the person behind you on a cell phone drinking coffe and change radio stations while trying to stay awake your slowing down why do you think its illegal to have busted tail lights

Don't drive to control the person behind you... If you need brakelights to tell if someone is slowing in front of you and/or you can't anticipate WHY that person is slowing, then there's a bigger problem on the road...