I was told the exact opposite when I bought my tC last august, but have just now found this out after an extensive fight with my local toyota dealership, which I've documented in previous posts here. I've got a multitude of minor problems and a few larger ones, which I've tried to have rectified by my local (non scion selling) toyota dealership (SIGNATURE TOYOTA, BENTON HARBOR, MI) . After encountering a few hassles each time I've tried to get some warranty work done there, I've been dealing with the scion corporate advocates. They tell me that although the toyota franchise agreements were modified to include scions as cars dealers are obligated to fix, for this to happen they must have a scion certified mechanic on duty.

I'm being told by scion that basically, this dealership doesn't think it's worth the hassle and is refusing to service any and all scions. They flat out dont want to work on them, and have supposedly refused scion's offer of assistance in this area.

So if you're buying a tC at a place not in your hometown because it was hard to find or whatever, don't be assured that your toyota dealer back home will service it, even if you were told that at the time of sale. I feel lied to right now, infuriated. Scion has told me I'm at the end of the line as far as internal complaints, and that I now need to contact an external organization like the BBB if I want to proceed further.

UPDATE:

Please see my last post. I am currently satisfied with this dealership and wanted to update on how they have treated me in the interest of fairness.

If I didn't sell them, I wouldn't want to work on them either. I wouldn't expect them to.

I'm curious who told you that "all toyota dealerships service Scions" ... it sounds like you should be looking to that person for answers. If not that person, then yourself for not doing enough research. I'm sure it sucks and all and I'm sorry you're having trouble... but whatever gave you this expectation is the problem... not necessarily Toyota.

I'll be taking mine to the dealer that I bought it from for any service. I would hope most people would be doing the same.

To be honest, I don't think the BBB will care. And even if they do, there really isn't much they can do about it.

"If I didn't sell them, I wouldn't want to work on them either. I wouldn't expect them to. "

It's somewhat understandable from a business sense, but the scion's share a good part of their DNA with similar toyota cars, and the dealer gets the same reimbursement / warranty rates that they do from toyota cars not purchased there. And that doesn't even go into non-warranty work, where there can be a tremendous amount of profit.


Who told me that all toyota dealerships can service scions? #1, I was told that by the sales team at the place of purchase.

#2, that's been the line from scion corporate ever since I'd had dealer problems. Back in January, this local dealer fed me the same line, that they didnt have "repair manuals", and thus couldn't fix anything. Scion corporate quickly called me back, assuring that they had all the manuals and tools they needed, and that they would be able to work on my car with no problems.

"but whatever gave you this expectation is the problem... not necessarily Toyota. "

Scion, part of Toyota, gave me this impression, so the problem does come from there.


"I'll be taking mine to the dealer that I bought it from for any service. I would hope most people would be doing the same."

Many of us who bought cars in the initial frenzy last summer didn't have the option of buying from a dealer close to us. The POS (point of sale ) dealership for my tC is about 1.5 hours away, and because they retracted on a promise to take care of some scratches that were on the car when I took delivery, I'm refusing to go back to them for anything.

"To be honest, I don't think the BBB will care. And even if they do, there really isn't much they can do about it."

My complaint should be taken just as seriously as anyone else's, and if the response is not to my satisfaction than it's my understanding that that will be placed on public record.

Ok maybe I am missing it but of course a Toyota dealer isn't going to do free work on a Scion it a Scion. The Infinity dealer wont work on Nissans for free..

Now if your saying a Toyota/Scion dealer wont do it then I would argue that point.

Well it's not that it's "free" work... I'm not sure where you're getting that from. It's that the Toyota dealerships aren't necessarily qualified for Scion repairs.

"Ok maybe I am missing it but of course a Toyota dealer isn't going to do free work on a Scion it a Scion. The Infinity dealer wont work on Nissans for free.. "


Yeah, you are missing it. The underpinnings of scions are essentially toyota's, and the vast toyota network of dealers that toyota has was a huge selling point to many scion dealers. It's one reason I didn't buy a mini - there weren't that many dealers for service; with scions, you could go to any toyota dealership.

They get reimbursed for warranty work on scions just like any other toyota car.



"It's that the Toyota dealerships aren't necessarily qualified for Scion repairs."

Perhaps, but even the specialist I talked to today admitted it didn't take much for a dealer to have a mechanic be "scion-certified" to work on cars; and this (neccesary) point was never communicated to me. The equipment is essentially the same, minus perhaps some software updates for their diagnostic hardware.

I would think long and hard about even wanting to have my car serviced at a bonehead dealership like this anyway.
No way would I go out of my way to get dumbasses like this to "cave in" and work on my car.

Stay far far away and find another service shop that doesnt give you attitude.



edit: haha I uses the word way in there FOUR times. amazing@!

The engine is toyota, yes. The tranny is a re-worked toyota.. The rest of the car has SOME parts from toyota, and I mean components, but the car is far from being a toyota (or sharing the same parts as one anyway). Try taking an Acura to a Honda only dealership. Mechanics or anyone for that matter calling many Honda only dealers cant even get parts for them there. Not all GM dealerships work on saturns either. The issue is that they do not have people trained and experienced in Scions because they do not sell them. So you are better off taking it to a Scion/Toyota anyway. I dont they are trying to be _______s about it. They are simply saying they do not have the manuals, or trained people to work on them. It wouldnt pay for them to since they dont sell them and they would barely have any coming in.

I agree with the group....at some point, Scion will spin off into it's own dealership similar to Lexus. Not all Toyota dealers opted to have a "Scion" section. There were very speciic requirements to sell Scion and in order to obtain one of the dealerships down the road, they have to follow all the procedures including the "pure price" for which they are audited on. Should any discrepancies be found, they can lose their Scion section and any potential future dealership deal. My guess is since Lexus started out this way....you don't see anyone taking their Lexus in to be repaired at the Toyota dealership!

"My guess is since Lexus started out this way....you don't see anyone taking their Lexus in to be repaired at the Toyota dealership!"

Sure, but there are a number of reasons for that, including lexus service being quite a bit better than toyota. I'm just saying, if you had a lexus, and were told not only when you bought it, but from lexus corporate 6 months later that you could have it serviced at ANY toyota dealer, wouldn't you be a bit peeved if that proved to be wrong and the closest lexus dealer was 45 minutes or 1.5 hours away?

I would think long and hard about even wanting to have my car serviced at a bonehead dealership like this anyway.
No way would I go out of my way to get dumbasses like this to "cave in" and work on my car.

Stay far far away and find another service shop that doesnt give you attitude.



edit: haha I uses the word way in there FOUR times. amazing@!


Yeah, no way I'd use them at this point even if they caved on their position.


"I dont they are trying to be _______s about it."

Well, they were _______s in person about every service I tried to have performed. And it's a stupendously absurd business decsion in my book. They have THE market on every single scion that needs service in this area, because as I've mentioned there isn't another toyota dealer within 45 minutes of here.

Stick with a Scion Dealer... Warranty work is paid back to the dealerships by the manufacturer, however, when they give the credit back to the dealer the defective parts MUST be returned by the dealer to the manufacturer... know this bcus my fiance is a Director of Operations of a auto dealer in So. Calif... they all operate the same in this capacity. A non Scion Toyota dealer will not be able to 1) Certify the Repair, 2) Obtain the parts under the Warranty return code or 3) return the parts under the necessary "Warranty" Code for their due credit.

So. Cal has many non Scion Toyota dealers, if it is not uncommon here, it is not uncommon anywhere.

If at all possible it is best to establish a relationship with the dealership where you took delivery of the car. If it means driving a bit out of your way to get your oil changes and maint then you need to plan for that, consistancy is best. Establishing that relationship at the dealership means having a constant Service Advisor as well, when I had my (4) Hondas they all came from the same sales person at the dealer, always went back to the same service advisor and the same technician took care of my car when it was in the shop.

My Fiance's dealership has many long term customers, many of them are celebrities, the all go to him because he is "Management" they are always well taken care of, again established relationships, not that any customer should be treated differently... when you are a familliar face, you do in fact get treated differently, unless you burn a bridge by being a pain in the behind.

Good luck, best suggestion, plan for your maintenance and repairs and go back to the original seller if you can.

I would think long and hard about even wanting to have my car serviced at a bonehead dealership like this anyway.
No way would I go out of my way to get dumbasses like this to "cave in" and work on my car.

Stay far far away and find another service shop that doesnt give you attitude.



edit: haha I uses the word way in there FOUR times. amazing@!


Yeah, no way I'd use them at this point even if they caved on their position.


"I dont they are trying to be _______s about it."

Well, they were _______s in person about every service I tried to have performed. And it's a stupendously absurd business decsion in my book. They have THE market on every single scion that needs service in this area, because as I've mentioned there isn't another toyota dealer within 45 minutes of here.

If they were acting like _______s, then that is a different story, and I wouldnt take them my business anyway.

But if there are no dealers in your area, there obviously arent many scions... so going through the trouble of hiring the personell or training them and stocking parts and documentation for a car they will hardly ever work on is not worth it to them.

And even if it is a poor business decision, the BBB will not even consider that reason to publicize it. Not carrying or servicing a certain product has nothing to do with bad business whatsoever. They arent doing anyone wrong other than themselves if they miss business over it. If they failed to service a product they actually sold that is one thing. Scion is under Toyota, but a Toyota dealership is in no way affiliated with Scion necessarilly. These are things to consider when going out of town to purchase a car.

why dont you take it back to the dealership that sold the car?

why dont you take it back to the dealership that sold the car?

Maybe it's because like he said in his second post, that dealership is a three hour round trip from home? I'll bet that's it! :)

maybe he should of considered that before he bought the car then. 99% of the time, a dealer is going to turn you away for warranty work unless you bought the car from that exact dealer.

sooo..... unless Toyota dealer was also a Scion dealer, they would not work on it rite?

Any Toyota dealer could work on the cars and do the warranty work. My local Toyota dealer has done all my warranty oil changes and even did a warranty work when my windows started squeaking.

Now, if this particular dealer doesn't want to work on them, I'd have to agree with the consensus here and NOT force them to work on your car.

Also, AFAIK you can take a Lexus to a Toyota dealership and they will also work on it, I know my town doesn't have a Lexus dealership and I see plenty of Lexus running around.

All of the Scion's share PLENTY of Toyota parts. Ever looked at part numbers for anything? They are standard Toyota part numbers for the most part. Nothing signfies that they are Scion parts in the part number.

let me say this again.


WARRANY IS OVERRATED.

let me repeat myself

WARRANTY IS OVERRATED!!!

warranty is only good towards the TSB's.

dealers are really shady about warranty so becareful.

let me say this again.


WARRANY IS OVERRATED.

let me repeat myself

WARRANTY IS OVERRATED!!!

warranty is only good towards the TSB's.

dealers are really shady about warranty so becareful.

Just so no noob comes in and reads this and freaks hout, warranty is NOT only good toward a TSB report. Most dealers and service departments should take the time to check and fix any problems you might have under warranty. THAT BEING SAID, if they can't replicate the problem they can't fix it. There have been a number of posts on here about some dealers being extra helpful and taking cars that were exhibiting strange behavior and trying to make them right. Now, this particular Toyota Dealer, I might be very warry of taking a vehicle to them that they sold, since they are obviously turning away a future sale down the line. I know my Toyota Dealer didn't have to go the extra distance they did on the Scion I brought them since they don't sell them, the other option would have been to take it back to the dealer that sold it to me which is about 45 minutes away.

BUT, the fact that my local dealer has spent time fixing my warranty complaints has made me more willing to take the car back to them for any issues I might need fixed that would be out of my pocket. This Toyota dealer was obviously short-sighted in that reguard as now they have lost any future sales to you that you might have given them.

maybe he should of considered that before he bought the car then. 99% of the time, a dealer is going to turn you away for warranty work unless you bought the car from that exact dealer.


Sorry, that's not true. I don't know where you got that idea from but it's not true.

sooo..... unless Toyota dealer was also a Scion dealer, they would not work on it rite?


They CAN, but are not OBLIGATED to. Which is quite different that what was sold to me, and I'm sure plenty of others.

Wow after reading this i just want to say to all my fellow scion owners out there im sorry that you are in such a dilema.. im lucky enough to have atleast 6 scion dealerships with in a 20 min drive..good luck to you all

Update...out of the blue, the general manager of the dealership chain called me this morning. He said he was reviewing his backlog of unresolved complaints, and that they had just gotten new alignment specs in and wanted to know if I wanted an alignment done.

I was shocked-I told him, scion corporate dealt directly with your underlings and were told I was not wanted as a customer. Bill Crowder assured me that that was not the case and he wanted me back.

After I gave him my lengthy list of problems and concerns, he apologized profusely and made me a fair offer. I'm bringing the car in next week, and he will:

1. Do an alignment for free (I guess they only attempted to do one because toyota specs call for it, whereon scion specs they don't)
2. Re-fix the sunroof
3. perform the AC TSB
4. Clean/adjust my brakes for free to figure out why they are screeching so much


He told me that as of this second, they officially ARE now a scion dealer, but they don't have the signage, official certificates, etc. But they are committed to the brand and to working on them.

He assured me that there would be no retaliation and that the service manager that has given me problems would be spoken to.

So it seems like the situation is beginning to be resolved. I'm hoping that's the case-and will update either way in about 2 weeks. I'm crossing my fingers, but it looks positive right now.

I would not think that a toyota dealership would work on scions, you have to go to a scion dealership,
do you think you could take your lexus in to a toyota dealership? dont think so, i know it sucks cuz your scion dealership is prolly far away, but hey thats life.

^^ My point exactly. A lot of Honda dealerships dont even sell parts for Acuras, much less work on them. You have to understand that from a business perspective they are different companies as far as Toyota is concerned. And people setting up a dealership are not required to equip for both. So, although it may not be the best idea financially for those dealerships (or maybe it is.. you never know) they are doing absolutely nothing wrong by not working on them. You really cant even complain about them not doing it. Thats like complaining because a certain Toyota dealership doesnt sell Scion... doesnt make sense.

I hope everythind works out though man, your just complaining about the wrong thing

Update...out of the blue, the general manager of the dealership chain called me this morning. <snip>

Hey, great news. I'm glad to hear at least something is beginning to work out for this problem. So looking back, now that they *are* a Scion dealership and all that, does it seem more logical that they wouldn't do the work when they supposedly *weren't*. I think now the GM is trying to drum up some referrals b/c he knows people are going to be asking you about your ride and where they can get one. Regardless of whether or not this is what he was *really* trying to do, it's good to know that at least you won't have to drive 3+ hrs. to the next closest dealer for warranty repairs .x:Fingers Crossed:x.

havent you guys heard?


warranty is overrated.

but if there is a toyota dealership that doesnt fix the TSB's then they truely suck.

WOW! :shock:

PLEASE keep us informed on this, OK?

If all works out well, and the dealership has turned over a new leaf because of the direct involvment of Mr. Crowder in this (sounds like it never got to his level before), you might even have to start a new topic about the change. :)

Time will tell, of course, but it sounds promising.

I probably don't have to tell you, but keep your guard up... I have trouble getting the dealership to do even simple things like get the tire pressures or the lug nut torque right...

havent you guys heard?


warranty is overrated.

but if there is a toyota dealership that doesnt fix the TSB's then they truely suck.

Warranties are not overrated when defective parts are replaced with no cost to me. They have replaced the 3rd brake light housing 3 or 4 times now because it keeps cracking the tabs and replaced my clutch mounting bracket not too long ago because there was too much play in the peddle. Neither have a TSB.

That sucks and what is BBB???

we only have one scion dealer on oahu (hawaii) and the toyota service dept next to the showroom is where i get my free oil changes. short of my a/c, tranny, engine failing on me i probably won't see them after the third change. HOWEVER, my salesperson was able to squeeze me into another toyota service center 30 min away (island, so ;P) with no problems. don't you just hate dealers? makes you want to install a lift at your house, don't it?!?!!

Nah! Just dig a pit in the garage floor, yesti... :D

According to the customer satisfaction pledge that all Toyota sellers must honor:
All new vehicles sold from a certified Toyota dealership must honor the warranty and service agreement for Toyota no matter where the servicing dealership is located.

And believe me HONOR is still a big thing if brought before the regional rep or if you happen to send an e-mail straight to Toyota of JP.

Do it once and see what happens.

i guess some people have no honor! (digging the pit...)

I'm glad all is working out now, but it sucks that you had to go through that. When I first started running our Scion dealer, I asked that exact question. I was assured that EVERY Toyota dealership would be required to service and repair all Scion vehicles. It wasn't an option.

The thing is, the relationship between Scion isn't the same as between Honda and Acura. It isn't even the same as between Toyota and Lexus. Scions are Toyotas. They have Toyota VIN numbers, Toyota part numbers, Toyota model numbers and are covered by Toyota warranties. They are sold by Toyota dealers and all parts, service and everything else is handled by Toyota communication channels. Any Toyota dealer that tells you they can't service a Scion is also a dealership who would give you hassle with warranty work if you owed a Corolla.

Dealers are independent businesses and franchises - they are NOT owned by Toyota/Scion (the automobile manufacturer). When a customer has warranty work completed on their Scion vehicle, the Toyota or Scion dealership is paid by Toyota/Scion, the manufacturer.
Toyota dealers are also authorized by Scion to work on Scion vehicles, REGARDLESS of whether they carry the Scion line or not. Customers also have the freedom and peace of mind that they can take their vehicle to ANY Toyota dealership in any of the 50 states. The customer is not restricted to his/her selling dealership. And while most dealerships happily follow this policy (Remember, they’re getting paid for warranty work. By denying work, they are denying income), they still have the business right to deny work if they so choose. :)

(Remember, they’re getting paid for warranty work. By denying work, they are denying income), they still have the business right to deny work if they so choose. :)

Well, kinda. The labor rate for warranty work is about half that for retail work. They don't loose money, but if they think they can get an individual to pay for it, they do benefit. Of course, if the customer just leaves and has it done elsewhere, they get nothing. Half the labor is better than no labor but some dealers are willing to make that gamble.

In the interest of fairness, I should say that this dealership has gone above and beyond the call of duty for me recently. They have fixed several out of warranty problems for free, and they have been extremely nice to me. I am currently happy with their service. Incidentally, they are indeed now a full fledged scion dealer.

a.)not all Toyota dealers are Scion affiliated
b.)those who ARE NOT do not have to work on Scions nor are obligated
c.)any Toyota/Scion dealer has the right to refuse service to anyone, for certain reasons

if you buy your Scion and take it to a dealer that does not sell/service scions, find another one. there are plenty to go around, and more popping up each month

glad your issue is resolved/handled
hope your future experiences are better